Galactic Starcruiser - what is next for this space?

[ttintagel]

Review bombing is absolutely a thing.

The sequels, TLJ included, did great at the box office.

Most internet complaints about them don't make any sense, as if the complainer didn't see the movie themselves, was media illiterate, or was just mad that the script wasn't directly taken from the fanfiction they'd written in their head.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Yep review bombing happens for sure, but on both sides.

 

[BrianL]

They know this, you just won’t get them to admit it. Disney freaked out when the reception to TLJ was so bad, and they hired JJ with the instructions for him to fix it. He did the best he could which is why it’s all nostalgia to try and win over the OT fans that were so ticked off. They even attempted to kinda reconstruct Luke after Rian Johnson destroyed his character.

Oh, Luke had already been reconstructed by the end of TLJ. Episode IX didn't change anything about him from that point.

 

[New Mouse]

The sequels, TLJ included, did great at the box office.

There are a lot of sequels that do well simply because they are sequels to a popular franchise....and then that franchise died because of the poor quality of the movie.

TLJ effectively killed the franchise or that aspect of the franchise. Episode 9 was people coming back to see if Disney could right the ship, at which point even Disney gave up.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Oh, Luke had already been reconstructed by the end of TLJ. Episode IX didn't change anything about him from that point.

Disagree with this. There was a clear attempt to rebuild a destroyed Luke. You even see his hopeful nature (his entire character was hopes and dreams before TLJ) return in TROP.

I just don’t believe anyone can watch TROP and not see that JJ was clearly trying to fix all the things that Rian Johnson screwed up. I find this highly unlikely that you don’t see this as well in this movie.

 

[BrianL]

Disagree with this. There was a clear attempt to rebuild a destroyed Luke. You even see his hopeful nature (his entire character was hopes and dreams before TLJ) return in TROP.

I just don’t believe anyone can watch TROP and not see that JJ was clearly trying to fix all the things that Rian Johnson screwed up. I find this highly unlikely that you don’t see this as well in this movie.

Oh, he definitely tried to "fix" certain things, but Luke had returned to his old self - his "hopeful nature" - for the last act of TLJ. That's why he shows up to fight, doing exactly what he said he would never do. Yoda taught him that. It is in the movie. It's a surprise to Rey because she didn't see all that, but we did.

 

[Chili327]

Don’t you think they’re just trying to move on from the older stories, and trying to end those actors portions of the story?
How do you effectively kill off (or move on from) beloved characters and not piss off the old fans? And still get to use them as a “weenie” to draw in more people?

 

[BrianL]

Don’t you think they’re just trying to move on from the older stories, and trying to end those actors portions of the story?
How do you effectively kill off (or move on from) beloved characters and not piss off the old fans? And still get to use them as a “weenie” to draw in more people?

I think this is a huge issue that some fans have - they wanted the sequels to be "The Continuing Adventures of Luke Skywalker and Friends." That's exactly what it didn't need to be. I mean, that would have been great if they had made the movies in 1992, but that ship has sailed. The PT, OT, and ST each feature their own generation, and they were also made for different generations of fans too. For me, they got that part right.

 

[Jwaire]

Don’t you think they’re just trying to move on from the older stories, and trying to end those actors portions of the story?
How do you effectively kill off (or move on from) beloved characters and not piss off the old fans? And still get to use them as a “weenie” to draw in more people?

No. They had a rogue director that thought he could put his own bold, spin on things, threw out Abrams' outline for the second film and Lucasfilm executives (Kennedy) let him do it.

https://www.express.co.uk/entertain...ms-Last-Jedi-outline-plot-script-Daisy-Ridley

You had one chance with—Ford, Fisher and Hamill—and you blew it by not writing and planning the entire trilogy at the same time.

When Mark Hamill, who is by all accounts a very nice and cooperative actor, stands up to you and tells you that you are screwing up his character multiple times during filming, you're screwing up the character.

Then, you did a complete disservice to the new characters like Finn by making them seem like the most important character ever in the first film, only to be completely marginalized by the third.

It looks like they've learned their lesson as Dave Filoni is pretty much now in charge of Star Wars storytelling.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2023/11/star-wars-ahsoka-dave-filoni

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Everyone knew they had to move on from Luke, Han, and Leia. Many of us just wanted those characters respected on their way out. Instead we got Han as a dead beat dad and husband. We got Luke as a miserable old hermit glaring and drink green milk from a Dino teat. We then got Mary Poppins Leia. We also never got one single clip of the three that made Star Wars what it was back together again. Books have been written about how poorly done this was done and how detrimental it was to the franchise.

Everyone knew the old guard had to step aside for the new characters, but the issue is that transition could not have been done worse if you tried.

Daisy Ridley seems like a great young actress that has tons of potential. It’s not her fault as she was simply given horrible scripts with no plan.

 

[New Mouse]

Daisy Ridley seems like a great young actress that has tons of potential. It’s not her fault as she was simply given horrible scripts with no plan.

Agents get scripts in advance, she chose to take the money and have blind faith. I don't blame her but she wasn't innocent in that.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

I don’t believe that is the case with SW. I think you get a rough outline only. Likely an outline they had no intention in following. No chance they had Palpatine coming back in the original outline. After Rian Johnson pooped the bed…..JJ was scrambling for something to do for a villain that interested the bulk of fans. The result was “somehow Palpatine returns”.

 

[gatordoc]

It looks like they've learned their lesson as Dave Filoni is pretty much now in charge of Star Wars storytelling.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2023/11/star-wars-ahsoka-dave-filoni

It would be worth considering the comment from Bazzd at the end of this article before canonizing Filoni.
https://gizmodo.com/eman-esfandi-ahsoka-sabine-reunion-scene-star-wars-1851132921

 

[Chili327]

Everyone knew they had to move on from Luke, Han, and Leia. Many of us just wanted those characters respected on their way out. Instead we got Han as a dead beat dad and father. We got Luke as a miserable old hermit glaring and drink green milk from a Dino teat. We then got Mary Poppins Leia. We also never got one single clip of the three that made Star Wars what it was back together again. Books have been written about how poorly done this was done and how detrimental it was to the franchise.

Everyone knew the old guard had to step aside for the new characters, but the issue is that transition could not have been done worse if you tried.

Fair assessment.

I don’t believe that is the case with SW. I think you get a rough outline only. Likely an outline they had no intention in following. No chance they had Palpatine coming back in the original outline.

I’m going to tap out… as I’ve realized I’m not a big enough fan.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Not saying I know beyond a shadow of a doubt, just I believe I have read where Daisy has said before she signed on that she was only given a rough outline of the movie.

I personally don’t believe they had a plan so, I highly doubt there was a detailed script to read before they had to make a decision.

I could certainly be wrong though as I have certainly been wrong plenty of times before.

 

[ttintagel]

Everyone knew they had to move on from Luke, Han, and Leia. Many of us just wanted those characters respected on their way out.

What does "respected" even mean in this context? It doesn't make any sense to use that term. They're fictional characters. It would have been a terrible idea to have them preserved in amber, frozen in their early twenties with no character development in response to the thirty years of hard life they've lived since the original trilogy. That's just not how good storytelling works, and telling a good story is the number one priority when you're making a movie. You have to have a good story and something to say. Otherwise you're just playing with action figures. You need to be a filmmaker first and a fan second.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

For examples of respected characters and also effectively passing the torch I would say see the following examples:

Top Gun Maverick

Ghostbusters Afterlife

Cobra Kai

Those examples effectively passed the torch to new characters while not completely destroying the legacy characters whose shoulders the story stood on. Not a coincidence that all of those examples have been well liked by an existing passionate fan base. Ghostbusters Afterlife revived a dying brand after the 2016 movie almost killed the brand completely. There is a new one planned with the new cast set back in NYNY and the fans are very excited.

I don’t think it is that hard to do, but Disney just chose to destroy the legacy characters as a way to force the new characters on the fandom. It was not a smart move in my opinion, and when the Rey Palpatine movie fails to meet box office expectations I believe people will start to see how much damage has been done to this brand.

 

[BrianL]

What does "respected" even mean in this context? It doesn't make any sense to use that term. They're fictional characters. It would have been a terrible idea to have them preserved in amber, frozen in their early twenties with no character development in response to the thirty years of hard life they've lived since the original trilogy. That's just not how good storytelling works, and telling a good story is the number one priority when you're making a movie. You have to have a good story and something to say. Otherwise you're just playing with action figures. You need to be a filmmaker first and a fan second.

I mean, I can understand what "respected" means in the terms of fictional characters, I just don't think that the ST disrespected any of them at all. They were all in a place that made sense and is consistent with the universe. Luke went into hiding - as Yoda did. It's Jedi 101. Han and Leia had issues after Ben turned to the dark side. It was only a few years if you look at the timeline. It all made sense. I think the case could be made that the films could have fleshed it out a little more, but again, did they want movies that focus on the old guard or on the new kids. I thinks focusing on the new was the better choice.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Do you think Afterlife focused on the new kids? It sure seemed like it did to me. Do you think it also showed more respect to its legacy characters in the process? Sure felt to me like it did.

That’s all I am saying…..pass the torch effectively ……you just don’t have to tear down the old characters to make the new ones look better imho. Luke could have been a little bitter, but he would have never abandoned his friends when they needed him most. Han and Leia could just as easily grown closer together in a time of great pain, as that happens often too. Leia was the most respected of the bunch other than the Mary Poppins scene they didn’t make a fool of her too much. Han and Luke were just unnecessarily damaged beyond repair as characters in my opinion. There was no need to do that unless you have dumb people in charge who simply say “get these two fan favorites out of the picture asap”, let the past die…..kill it if you have to”.

 

[BrianL]

Do you think Afterlife focused on the new kids? It sure seemed like it did to me. Do you think it also showed more respect to its legacy characters in the process? Sure felt to me like it did.

That’s all I am saying…..pass the torch……you just don’t have to tear down the old characters to make the new ones look better.

I do think Afterlife focused on the new kids. It was maybe a tad too venerative of the original film though. I mean there is respect, and then there's outright deference. That said, I am almost surprised that you like their treatment of Egon, what with him being a "deadbeat dad" and all that - a term you like to throw around when characters are dragged throught he mud. Han only left AFTER Ben destroyed the Jedi Temple.

Again, I think the ST "respected" the characters fine. I think the people who made those movies love those characters. Sure, the characters had some issues - issues create drama after all. The resolution though was very on-point for all of them.