GAC... Proof now needed?!?!

[Kellykins1218]

At Disney, the immediate supervisor of a section is called a "Lead." A "Manager" is actally a step above that. So, yes, you should ask for a Lead first, as there will always be one on duty in the immediate area. A Manager oversees a much larger area and may not be able to get to you in a timely manner.

This is why the other poster told you to ask for a lead. And you would know how to ask for one through educational forums like this.

I've asked for a manager more than once at GS was helped immediately.

 

[Sparkly]

We've never needed a doctor's letter to obtain a GAC. We told them why I needed it and they gave us one that fits my needs appropriately.

 

[ttintagel]

Just be prepared to describe in detail what your child's concrete needs are.

 

[clanmcculloch]

I have a son with autism and I wish it was required to have a doctor's letter. It would cut down on those attempting to abuse the system. Of course there would be those, who still would attempt to cheat the system;but, it would make it much more difficult for them to do so.

There are a couple problems with this besides the whole legal privacy issue (I know you're not addressing that).

1. I don't feel that I should have to waste my time and money (copay in my case but full doctor visit price for those who are under-insured or not insured) and a doctor's time so that I can get such a letter. Most doctors would only write a basic letter listing the diagnosis (most won't know enough about WDW to be able to explain the issues that are likely to be encountered at WDW) so it doesn't actually help at all at Guest Relations.

2. Those who are honest will have to go to the trouble and cost to get the doctor's letter but those who would be willing to lie in order to get a perceived benefit are the same people would create their own fake letter in order to get a perceived benefit. It's very easy to create a letter head and to print a letter on a home computer. How would requiring people to bring a doctor's letter cut down on abuse?

I get your frustration. I really do. There are people who take advantage of all sorts of things in life. That doesn't mean I want things to be more difficult for the honest people out there.

 

[bocaj1431]

There are a couple problems with this besides the whole legal privacy issue (I know you're not addressing that).

1. I don't feel that I should have to waste my time and money (copay in my case but full doctor visit price for those who are under-insured or not insured) and a doctor's time so that I can get such a letter. Most doctors would only write a basic letter listing the diagnosis (most won't know enough about WDW to be able to explain the issues that are likely to be encountered at WDW) so it doesn't actually help at all at Guest Relations.

2. Those who are honest will have to go to the trouble and cost to get the doctor's letter but those who would be willing to lie in order to get a perceived benefit are the same people would create their own fake letter in order to get a perceived benefit. It's very easy to create a letter head and to print a letter on a home computer. How would requiring people to bring a doctor's letter cut down on abuse?

I get your frustration. I really do. There are people who take advantage of all sorts of things in life. That doesn't mean I want things to be more difficult for the honest people out there.

When I asked my son's physician for a doctor's letter, it was over the phone. There was no charge for that. I would be shocked to hear of a doctor requiring one of their patients come in for an office visit in order to ask for a doctor's letter.

I don't really agree with the statement you made about, doctor's not knowing enough about disney world in order to provide a letter that would be useful.
I would be shocked to find a doctor (One that diagnosed the condition, or oversees treatment for the condition) that did not have the knowledge necessary to describe how their patients medical or psychological condition would impact them at Disney. It does not take a rocket scientist to know what takes place in an amusement park.

While I agree people can "fake" a letter, (as I noted in my post) that does not mean it wouldn't be effective at cutting down on the abuse. The lengths someone would have to go to, in order to fake a letter, is a bit more than having to verbally state your needs at guest services. It would cut down on SOME people taking advantage. Anything is better than nothing. Of course, no matter what system you have, there will be abuse. However, I was only talking in hypotheticals; because, requesting a letter violates one's rights under the ADA. Thus, it would never be an option.

 

[Piper]

My doctor required an office visit (even though she is very familiar with me and my diagnoses--multiple.) This was just for a letter to certify that I am disabled so that I could move into my current apartment.

I really don't think she would have a clue about WDW or DL. A lot of people haven't been. When I mentioned a trip my sister had planned, my dr. mentioned that she would like to go someday!

 

[clanmcculloch]

It would take me no more than 5 minutes to create a fake letter. It would mean taking time off work to bring my daughter to the doctor plus paying a copay to get a real letter. In this day and age most doctors will refuse to write any kind of letter without some kind of office visit unless it is a follow-up to a specific treatment such as needing a doctor's letter to explain a school absence after having treated the child for that absence. Even if we had just been in for annual checkups the week before, we'd have to do an office visit for things like camp forms. It's just the way it is these days. This is SOP at every doctor's office I know of in my area.

What makes you think that most doctors have been to WDW or any place like it? Only a fraction of the people I speak with have been to WDW or any other place that is a full vacation experience which is VERY different than a few hours at an amusement park. People who have never been honestly do not know what's there beyond the fact that there are rides and places to eat. Lots of people don't even know that there's more than one park or that you can't see everything the whole WDW in one day. There are people who don't even know that WDW and DL aren't the same place. I'd bet that the majority of doctors don't know that most of the queues at MK are mainstreamed. I'd bet that the majority of doctors don't know that you can get gluten free let alone other allergen free foods at WDW. I'd bet that the majority of doctors don't know anything about a GAC and that those who do are under the misconception that it's a front of the line pass which it isn't. Most doctors do NOT know anything about accomodations at WDW. We were at my 15yo's therapist's office and I was telling her about the GAC because she had no idea. She doesn't specifically treat just autism, her specialty is OCD, but she does still treat quite a few kids who could benefit from a GAC but she knew nothing about it. I had to explain about the GAC to DD15's school autism specialist last summer when we were discussing the fact that she was taking her autistic son to WDW. She also didn't know about allergy safe foods even though her son is also GFCF. You'd be surprised at just how many professionals who deal with special needs on a daily basis know nothing about WDW let alone what kinds of accomodations are possible.

 

[lanejudy]

I have to agree with clanmcculloch and Piper...our PED will require an office visit for camp or school forms or such if there hasn't been a visit with the past 3 months (I think, maybe it's 6). Even if there has been a recent visit, the actual visit is waived but they still charge a fee for the document. Besides, our PED did not diagnosis my DD nor particularly "treat" the "condition." The geneticist who initially diagnosed her is now several hundred miles away in another state, another local geneticist who later confirmed the initial diagnosis only sees her for brief follow-ups every 2-3 years now. While that doctor did offer to write a letter for us once, it would have been a standard "this child has been diagnosed with X, please provide a disability pass" kind of letter without specifics. I would still have to discuss DD's "needs" with a CM at the park. The doctor didn't even have a clue that ADA law indicates such a letter can't be required. I know my child best, I know her strengths and weaknesses, her limiltations and abilities - it makes far more sense for me to describe that to the CM than for a doctor who has a 15 minute appointment each year for a check-up.

While I certainly agree with your frustration that fakers make it harder for the rest of us, I don't think requiring medical documentation is the answer. It would put the GAC out of reach of many people - be it time, expense, lack of a formal diagnosis or whatever. I actually think when CMs ask the right questions and have a conversation about the person's needs, they can more easily tell a "faker" because a faker won't have the experience and history to tell what has/hasn't worked in the past in similar situations.

 

[Cheshire Figment]

1. The ADA does not allow requiring proof of a disability if the individual is granted access equal to that of a person without a disability, to the extent possible. It only requires proof if a person will be granted access that is more than a person without a disability. Accordingly, Disney in the United States is not legally permitted to ask for any proof of a disability.

2. I found that in Disneyland Paris they do require proof of a disability. But the equal to the GAC is automatically a front-of-the-line pass. And even though I was in my ECV (which I brought with me) I still needed to get their Access Pass. Luckily I knew this in advance and brought my car hang tag.

3. It is unfortunate, but here is a sample letter from a doctor. I will analyze it afterwards.

(Starting with the doctor's letterhead, with the Doctor's name, address, phone, DEA Number, etc)

To Whom It May Concern:

My patient, Alfred E. Neuman, suffers from severe multiple onychocryptosis. Due to Mr. Neuman's condition he is unable to stand for prolonged periods without extreme pain; accordingly, please allow him immediate access to seating for all rides and shows. Any other considerations and courtesies which can be offered to Mr. Neuman will be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely

/s/ Heinz Doofenshmirtz, MD

If I am handed a letter such as that (which I cannot ask for) and the Guest demands that I read it I will do so.

A. Although I am not medically trained I have some non-technical medical knowledge. The Guest should not expect me to know what onychocryptosis is.

B. We do not give a FOTL Pass, and a GAC states on it that it is not intended to bypass lines. The only Guests who get a GAC with FOTL access are children on a Wish Trip. So I cannot give a GAC for immediate seating.

C. As there does to be an indication of a need (unable to stand for prolonged periods) I will take the official stance of suggesting that the Guest rent a wheelchair, or, if 18 or older, to rent an ECV. At least this one does give a need and not just a diagnoses.

D. As far as "other considerations and courtesies", we will always do what can be best, in our opinion, to assist a Guest with their needs so they can have equal access.

E. And as far as the doctor's note itself, I have no idea if:

i. The note was actually signed by the doctor.

ii. Mr. Neuman is actually a patient of Dr. Doofenschmirtz

iii. Does Dr. Doofenschmirtz actually exist, or

iv. Is Dr. Doofenschmirtz actually a licensed physician.

 

[bocaj1431]

I completely understand the above advice however it seems like a great deal of time and effort. I always have my son's doctors letter and personally would just provide it instead of wasting time.

I have a son with autism and I wish it was required to have a doctor's letter. It would cut down on those attempting to abuse the system. Of course there would be those, who still would attempt to cheat the system;but, it would make it much more difficult for them to do so.

Of course the advice from the poster above is probably the correct way to handle the situation.

To cheshire figment,

Clearly you did not read all my posts! I.clearly spoke about point one in your post, in my previous posts and agreed with what you said.

Point 2 in your post, not sure why you brought it up, we were not discussing disneyland. In our state of CT, there is an amusement park we go to and they do require a letter from a doctors office? I am extremely happy that they have this requirement; because, it does cut down on abuse and it has enabled my son to participate in things that he otherwise may not be able to! I did not bring this up because we were not talking about accommodations we were discussing assistance.

Point 3, as to your post about a doctor's letter. If I actually knew how, I too could post an example of a doctor's letter. In fact I could post, my son's letter from his doctor. (A real letter written by a real doctor, not one made up to make a point.) It would highlight how your made up version is nonsense. A professional doctor, would never write a letter, for a patient seeking recreational enjoyment, telling the recreational provider what they need to provide for the patient. What a professional doctor would do, is to highlight the individual's specific challenges due to their "disability". They would never expect the receiver of the letter to know what the disability was, hence the point of explaining the patient's specific challenges. Then once said letter is brought to a CM, he or she can guide the individual to what assistance can or can not be provided.

By the way, your letter also touches on how a GAC can and can not provide assistance. Had "Mr. Alfred Neuman" read sticky 6 from the disability forum he would know that a GAC is not the best avenue to help him with his specific issues. This is something I have already discussed and agreed with you on in my previous posts. I have read sticky post 6 and know what a GAC will and will not provide. Also in addressing your point about needing something more descriptive than a diagnosis, I never suggested they didn't require further information about their specific needs. Not sure why stevemouse, even insinuated that was something I disagreed with.

Please, before you begin to attack someone, get the facts straight. In my previous posts I pretty much agreed with all the points you made. If you have your own personal issues, do not use me as a scape goat for that.

Lastly, and I am afraid I will have to repeat this to the others, this was all based on my saying I *******WISH***** a letter would be required; so not sure why I am being attacked about something I was merely wishing for. I guess based on posts like yours I should have given a full presentation offering facts to make an argument about a WISH.

 

[bocaj1431]

I have to agree with clanmcculloch and Piper...our PED will require an office visit for camp or school forms or such if there hasn't been a visit with the past 3 months (I think, maybe it's 6). Even if there has been a recent visit, the actual visit is waived but they still charge a fee for the document. Besides, our PED did not diagnosis my DD nor particularly "treat" the "condition." The geneticist who initially diagnosed her is now several hundred miles away in another state, another local geneticist who later confirmed the initial diagnosis only sees her for brief follow-ups every 2-3 years now. While that doctor did offer to write a letter for us once, it would have been a standard "this child has been diagnosed with X, please provide a disability pass" kind of letter without specifics. I would still have to discuss DD's "needs" with a CM at the park. The doctor didn't even have a clue that ADA law indicates such a letter can't be required. I know my child best, I know her strengths and weaknesses, her limiltations and abilities - it makes far more sense for me to describe that to the CM than for a doctor who has a 15 minute appointment each year for a check-up.

While I certainly agree with your frustration that fakers make it harder for the rest of us, I don't think requiring medical documentation is the answer. It would put the GAC out of reach of many people - be it time, expense, lack of a formal diagnosis or whatever. I actually think when CMs ask the right questions and have a conversation about the person's needs, they can more easily tell a "faker" because a faker won't have the experience and history to tell what has/hasn't worked in the past in similar situations.

Thank you for sharing your experiences. This whole thing has really been blown out of proportion. I merely addressed the op's question and then Stevemouse insinuated I meant something that I never came close to saying. Then when I replied to him, people began to take that post out of context! After that, some individuals began to argue against me not realizing in previous posts I agreed with what they were saying. Then to top it off, I began to get frustrated and started to generalize my points when readdressing someone's assumptions about what I was saying.

As for a doctor's letter, I guess it really depends on the "disability" and what type of doctor is providing the letter! In my case my son has Autism. He has a developmental pediatrician, geneticist, occupational therapist, speech pathologist, psychologist, neurologist, psychiatrist, and family therapist. He also has a team of experts provide him with a comprehensive, transdisciplinary evaluation every three. years. None of these physicians would require I come into the office for a letter. However, with the exception of the neurologist and the geneticist, his needs are so severe that it is necessary for him to see all of these physicians on a regular basis. So maybe that is why they do not, nor would they ever, charge us. I also belong to many organizations for Autism and have numerous friends and acquaintances who have received letters without a fee.

I think a letter for camp or school is a completely different issue.

If I offended you I am sorry.

 

[bocaj1431]

It would take me no more than 5 minutes to create a fake letter. It would mean taking time off work to bring my daughter to the doctor plus paying a copay to get a real letter. In this day and age most doctors will refuse to write any kind of letter without some kind of office visit unless it is a follow-up to a specific treatment such as needing a doctor's letter to explain a school absence after having treated the child for that absence. Even if we had just been in for annual checkups the week before, we'd have to do an office visit for things like camp forms. It's just the way it is these days. This is SOP at every doctor's office I know of in my area.

What makes you think that most doctors have been to WDW or any place like it? Only a fraction of the people I speak with have been to WDW or any other place that is a full vacation experience which is VERY different than a few hours at an amusement park. People who have never been honestly do not know what's there beyond the fact that there are rides and places to eat. Lots of people don't even know that there's more than one park or that you can't see everything the whole WDW in one day. There are people who don't even know that WDW and DL aren't the same place. I'd bet that the majority of doctors don't know that most of the queues at MK are mainstreamed. I'd bet that the majority of doctors don't know that you can get gluten free let alone other allergen free foods at WDW. I'd bet that the majority of doctors don't know anything about a GAC and that those who do are under the misconception that it's a front of the line pass which it isn't. Most doctors do NOT know anything about accomodations at WDW. We were at my 15yo's therapist's office and I was telling her about the GAC because she had no idea. She doesn't specifically treat just autism, her specialty is OCD, but she does still treat quite a few kids who could benefit from a GAC but she knew nothing about it. I had to explain about the GAC to DD15's school autism specialist last summer when we were discussing the fact that she was taking her autistic son to WDW. She also didn't know about allergy safe foods even though her son is also GFCF. You'd be surprised at just how many professionals who deal with special needs on a daily basis know nothing about WDW let alone what kinds of accomodations are possible.

If I offended you, I apologize. I just felt attacked for an innocent comment.

I am not going to continue to go back and forth on this. If you read all of my posts, specifically, the original one, you would see that I was not making any argument for or against anything. I merely made a comment about something I wished for; but, at the same time agreed with the op, I was replying to, that they had the better solution. I did not begin to argue about this at all until stevemouse insinuated I made comments, that I did not. Then everyone began to jump in, without reading the original post I made.

These argumentative comments have become RIDICULOUS compared to the grand scheme of things. Especially compared to what people with disabilities go through on a regular basis.

I have a 12yr old son with Autism. Every day he tells me he hates himself. Every day he hits himself. Every day he asks why his only friends are other kids with Autism. Every week he begs me to make his "autism" go away. Every month my son says, I am going to be a hobo and have no future. Every month my son talks about suicide. My son's anxieties are so severe that they can become debilitating at times. Just 4 weeks ago my son was hospitalized for two weeks due to being suicidal. My son has had, a psychologist, psychiatrist, speech pathologist, occupational therapist, family therapist, and developmental pediatrician involved in his life daily since the age of 3. He also is out placed to a school for children with Autism. No one knows how to help him, which is the case for many people with his type of autism. It seems so hopeless at times! In addition, I just found out the medications he was taking for the behaviors, due to his autism, caused him to develop diabetes; and, he now has to come off those medications. I have had to quit my job due to my son's constant care. And to top it off, my husband divorced me for a girl almost 20 years younger than he is, because he couldn't handle my sons needs. And as if that was not enough, I have to take care of my mother who has paranoid schizophrenia.

I come to the dis to get advice on our upcoming disney vacation and to talk with others, who are excited to discuss anything Disney. Last year was mine and my son's first vacation ever and we chose disney. We are going again this year. It is the ONLY thing I look forward to. So, when I come to these forums the last thing I want to do is argue about something so stupid as a doctors letter. If I offended you some how, I am sorry. This is the last time I am going to discuss what I meant by my original comment on page 1.

By the way, thanks to stevemouse for insinuating I said something I never did, which lead to this whole mess in the first place.

 

[lanejudy]

...If I offended you I am sorry.

No offense taken. And I'm very sorry if you felt my post was directly attacking you. I didn't quote you so did not intend to be responding directly to you. I really just thought I was chiming in on a discussion about providing proof, and how some disabilities that are currently helped by a GAC might find it challenging to provide a letter as proof.

I've very sorry your son's issues are so challenging, and that you have other home things to deal with on top of it. I understand how it can be overwhelming and "losing" yourself in the DIS can be an escape.

 

[bocaj1431]

No offense taken. And I'm very sorry if you felt my post was directly attacking you. I didn't quote you so did not intend to be responding directly to you. I really just thought I was chiming in on a discussion about providing proof, and how some disabilities that are currently helped by a GAC might find it challenging to provide a letter as proof.

I've very sorry your son's issues are so challenging, and that you have other home things to deal with on top of it. I understand how it can be overwhelming and "losing" yourself in the DIS can be an escape.

Thank you for being so kind! I really appreciate it.

 

[SueM in MN]

I'm going to close this thread at this point, with a couple of comments.
Number one is keep in mind that communicating on the Internet gives just the plain words.
The reader is missing all of the communication that comes from things like tone of voice, volume, body language - those things add so much to the bare words and can completely change the message or how the message is received.
Most people are not intending to hurt someone else's feelings, attack, insult or otherwise make them feel bad. But, how a message is written or received can do that by accident.

And, now, some facts.

• If you want to bring a letter, or feel more comfortable having one in your hands, you can bring one. Just be prepared that it will likely not be looked at.
• WDW can't require proof of a disability. This is according to the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act), which states no one can be required to provide proof that they have a disability to get assistance/accommodations related to a disability.
• Europe is different and Disneyland Paris does require proof (although when I was at DL Paris, I specifically asked how Americans would provide proof since we don't have the same system of registered disabled as Europe has. I was told by a Guest Relations supervisor that they would make allowances for Americans not having the same proof).
• In the US, proof can be required if the person with a disability is getting something of value because they are disabled - like a discount - or if they are getting access to something that is in limited number and desired by others - like close up (handicapped) parking spots.
• Most doctors would probably write a pretty generic letter - "I want to introduce my patient who has xxxx. Please extend every possible assistance." I have seen some of those letters and there are many 'form letters' like that on the Internet and in books.
• Many doctors think that writing a letter will get their patient front of the line access, without waiting. I have had a doctor offer to write a letter for our DD, saying pretty much that, "since you will need a letter to get any assistance." We had already been coming to WDW for many years by that point, so I could tell him we did not need a letter and would not get the access he thought.
• My family is not alone. I know of many people who have been told the same things by their/their child's doctor.
• I do know of people who were required to make a doctor visit or were charged for writing a letter. Many doctors won't charge, as a courtesy to the patient, especially if it has been a long term relationship between the doctor and family. But, when you consider the time involved in dictating the letter, getting it typed, printed and signed, the doctor does incur some expenses related to that letter. Their office does have the right/option of collecting for the service of writing the letter.
• Requiring a letter could prevent some people from getting the help they need. Some wouldn't know and some just might not be able to get a letter. It would not be fair to deny them the help they need just because they couldn't jump thru some hoops.
• A letter can be easily faked, so is not proof of a disability. Cheshire Figment had written a brilliant post once including a letter from Dr. Doofensmerz. Anyone with internet and a computer can make a pretty professional looking letter.