Funeral- would this upset you?

[MELSMICE]

I think she is making up a few facts now. If that was true then I cannot for the life of me understand why she did not say it in the begining. Also there were to be 7 pallbearers. How would that work?

The op also now have 22 blood aunts and uncles just on her mothers side. The poor women she had 23 kids!!!!

Why wouldn't 7 pallbearers work? Is it really about an even number carrying a casket or the "honor" of being a pallbearer. Three on each side & one at the head of the casket. You could even have 8 pallbearers.

I think the OP she had 22 blood aunts/uncles from both her mom & dad. I don't have time to look for the post right now. My internet connection is going down for a while, but I think it was a few pages back.

 

[crashbb]

I agree. No one knows the dynamics of the OP's family. I believe she has a right to be hurt - as do all the other members of the family.

I really think some of you posters are being hurtful, disrespectful & condescending to the OP.

When the OP said that the reason we didn't find her BIL's actions offensive was because we came from uncaring families that didn't love each other, she was hurtful, disrespectful and condescending to me.

 

[Jennasis]

I agree. No one knows the dynamics of the OP's family. I believe she has a right to be hurt - as do all the other members of the family.

I really think some of you posters are being hurtful, disrespectful & condescending to the OP.

Sure she does. But the question she asked was "Would YOU be upset." When she got a resounding no, she went on about how closer she is with her family and can't fathom why we don't agree with her. She also didn't want to hear the myriad of reasons why it might be okay for her brother to do what he did.

She's hurt...got it. Now move on, and stop adding "new facts" to try to villify the guy. It isn't working.

 

[MariDisney]

I am one that agrees I would not be upset if my BIL didn't attend the funeral. I wonder, though, if the BIL WANTED to stay, maybe even INTENDED to stay. But, after being with the family for a day or two was overcome with emotion that was too strong to even handle and ended up in almost a flight response. So, he knew he should stay or whatever but was so overcome with grief that he just couldn't think of anything else to do besides leave. He may have even tried to stick it out awhile, but realized he just wasn't going to be able to go through with it. Using the excuse of Valentines day or not knowing his paid time off policy may just be an excuse to cover. I hope he's not beating himself over it now, especially if he's getting grief from the family.

 

[wdwfan16]

A BLOOD relative has nothing to do with anything and never once did I say that...I have maintained from the beginning it is about the relationship you had with that person! Seriously, what is wrong with some of you....that is incredibly rude and hurtful. My parents and my aunts and uncles attended and obviously their relationship with him is completely different than mine....he is a distant relative to me. I have 22 BLOOD aunts/uncles plus their spouses on just my moms side of the family....no I do not know some of them very well (even my mom doesn't). My grandmother was the youngest of 14, my grandfather one of 8. I have known my DH's grandfather for 15 years and seen him weekly, so while he isn't BLOOD, he is BLOOD to my DH and my son and our relationship was a lot different than some of my more distant relatives.

Why wouldn't 7 pallbearers work? Is it really about an even number carrying a casket or the "honor" of being a pallbearer. Three on each side & one at the head of the casket. You could even have 8 pallbearers.

I think the OP she had 22 blood aunts/uncles from both her mom & dad. I don't have time to look for the post right now. My internet connection is going down for a while, but I think it was a few pages back.

See above.

 

[crashbb]

See above.

I assume she meant great-aunts and great-uncles.

Though that would only be 20 (not 22). Her grandmother had 13 siblings and her grandfather had 7. Makes more sense in the context of the paragraph.

 

[Nancyg56]

I agree. No one knows the dynamics of the OP's family. I believe she has a right to be hurt - as do all the other members of the family.

I really think some of you posters are being hurtful, disrespectful & condescending to the OP.

No one has said that the Op had no right to be hurt, of course she did. There is a huge difference between hurt and being so angry and bitter. She came here and asked us if we would be upset and most have said that we would not. Most have said that the BIL drove six hours to be with family for the weekend and then returned to work and that we feel that he did what he could.

I think that some of us were offended when the Op stated that she was baffled and that we must not be close to our family members, that we would be disrespectful if we chose not to attend services. For me, that was a huge leap to make and a fairly nasty statement to make to people who were simply trying to present a different POV.

After that statement was not well recieved the OP them began to add more details to make the BIL seem selfish and out of line. Most of us still felt that he had a right to make choices that were best for his own immediate family. I agree that the tone of this thread is not as supportive as it was before we were insulted I have not seen any rude or condescending posts. This is an open message board and once you choose to post and ask an opinion I imagine you should at least respect that some folks will not agree with your own position. It is not personal.

 

[Amy&Dan]

I agree. No one knows the dynamics of the OP's family. I believe she has a right to be hurt - as do all the other members of the family.

I really think some of you posters are being hurtful, disrespectful & condescending to the OP.

I agree. Its amazing to me how some threads take on a life of their own. I don't remember seeing where she said some of us came from unloving, uncaring familes. Maybe she is on the defense and came out a bit harsh, no idea, I haven't looked all the way back. But come what may, she is now being called a liar. She's making up facts to increase her face value on this thread in some of the posters' minds. Which to me is a huge leap of logic to assume that as facts unfold, they are untrue and she's just making crap up to justify herself. Sorry, I don't see it that way. She's adding things in as we all continue to comment and ask questions.

I think she got a much differing view than she expected and just kept trying to make some people understand why she and others in her husband's family felt the way they did. Honestly, I too was surprised that so many people thought the problem was hers because in all honesty, I was surprised that so many of you thought a grandchild not being there was typical. I too was raised in a close family and when my paternal grandparents died, my mom made it very clear we would all be attending because my dad had died and we there to represent him for his parent's respective funerals since he had died so many years earlier. Now I see its not the case in all families and while I don't think people are wrong to not attend a grandparent's funeral, I have to say that had either of my siblings not attended my grandparents' funeral (any four fo them) I would have been upset/surprised. To me a funeral is for the living but its also the last earthly way to do something towards that loved one. This is just me. But I do agree OP needs to just let this go and move on and help the rest of the family do the same.

And speaking of moving on and feeling upset, as I recall this funeral was like yesterday? So its new and fresh. Its not as if Puffkin is saying "two years ago this happened and man we are still mad as heck". Its recent, its fresh and I am betting this close family will indeed move on.

Blood uncles could mean great uncles too. Her mom had some brothers and mom's mom and dad had brother's too.

My dad had 7 pallbearers at his funeral. My grandfather had I think 8. In both cases it went by close friends or grandsons and grandson in laws. In both cases and every other funeral I have been to, the pallbearers merely escorted the casket and didn't carry it so an exact number wasn't needed. In the old days, it was three on each side I believe carrying the actual casket. So I can see seven being very logical based on the number of family members.

In the end, OP may not be entitled by some of you to carry this torch. But I see people saying she keeps coming back on. When in fact many of us keep coming back on too. She comes back to defend herself and to me that's perfectly acceptable.

I don't know OP but I do know that she's being flamed a bunch of this thread and I feel sorry for her! Because even though many great points have been made about death and funerals by so many, she's really been put under the microscope. And yes, she put this out there for all to see and comment on but its still got to be hard to have the sort of comments directed to her that have been.

 

[puffkin]

I think she is making up a few facts now. If that was true then I cannot for the life of me understand why she did not say it in the begining. Also there were to be 7 pallbearers. How would that work?

The op also now have 22 blood aunts and uncles just on her mothers side. The poor women she had 23 kids!!!!

OMG seriously! If you must know, I have 3 aunts/uncles plus spouses on my mom's side and 2 plus spouses on my dads. My mom is one of 4, my dad is one of 3. My maternal grandmother is the youngest of 14 children. This is PA dutch country in the 1920's....very common. My maternal grandfather is one of 8 children. So yes...22 great uncles/aunts plus spouses on my mom's side of the family. I have no idea how many cousins my mom has because it is a crazy number. My grandmother had nieces and nephews older than her because she was the youngest. My dads family is much smaller but still large by many standards. My paternal grandmother was one of 6 and my paternal grandfather was one of 4. Yes, I have a HUGE family. By todays standards it is unusual, but generations ago not so much....especially in farming communities.

I only found out about the pall bearer thing last night. My DH and BIL were pulled aside at Christmas and DH never told me about that or about MIL taking BIL for a suit...apparently DH had been invited. And honestly most of the family that expressed concern about BIL not being there have no idea about the pallbearer thing. I trully honestly believe that is why DH is so upset about this (and by extension me as well). He wanted the 7 grandsons/grandsons in law...I didn't realize there was a rule that said you had to have an even number I honestly don't know why the nephew filled in at the last minute because 6 would have been fine...I am guessing the grandmother didn't really think about it and just assumed that since BIL wasn't there that someone would need to fill in so she asked the nephew.

I have been on these boards a LONG LONG LONG time and while I am not a super poster I do post enough that I would really hope people don't think I would make up or sensationalize things.

And honestly, the title of the thread isn't Am I right or wrong but if this would UPSET you. Thank you to the posters who posted their perspective that it would or wouldn't upset them without attacking me or some of the other posters. That was the goal of the thread.....

ETA: In an effort for full disclosure I just realize I did shady math...I have 20 great aunts/uncles on my mom's side....I was counting my grandparents in the total. Even still, it is a LOT of family.

 

[Amy&Dan]

By the way Kelly, on a lighter note, I love the picture of your beagle and cat! I have a beagle and have had them all my life and that one in your picture looks just like the first beagle Dan and I had named Benjamin!

Hope you have a great day, this too shall pass.

 

[puffkin]

By the way Kelly, on a lighter note, I love the picture of your beagle and cat! I have a beagle and have had them all my life and that one in your picture looks just like the first beagle Dan and I had named Benjamin!

Hope you have a great day, this too shall pass.

Awe thanks...I too have had beagles my whole life. His name is Murphy and he is our first baby, and Lilly (the cat) was our second. Believe it or not they actually do really like each other. It's an old picture but I left it on there after DS was born because that is how most people identify me on here. I will never own any other dog than beagles, but after owning a beagle I will never own another dog if that makes any sense We have moved to the dark side and really enjoy our cats (we got a second one last year).......

 

[LunchladyDoris]

One would think, an important dis by the BIL like that would've been mentioned straight off the bat. I suppose next we'll hear that he punched a nun on his way out and did donuts on the church lawn screaming "so long suckers!!" as he drove away.

Not to mention what happened to the holy water

 

[Amy&Dan]

Awe thanks...I too have had beagles my whole life. His name is Murphy and he is our first baby, and Lilly (the cat) was our second. Believe it or not they actually do really like each other. It's an old picture but I left it on there after DS was born because that is how most people identify me on here. I will never own any other dog than beagles, but after owning a beagle I will never own another dog if that makes any sense We have moved to the dark side and really enjoy our cats (we got a second one last year).......

My sister has a beagle (he is actually my current beagle Daisy's brother) and he loves her cat! I have seen them snuggle just like Murphy and your cat.

I love beagles, my paternal grandfather raised them and its our tribute to him and my dad to always have one! They are stubborn but I just love them to pieces!

You may change your mind about another dog. I swore that too but within a few days of Ben's death in 2006, I had found my Daisy from a breeder online and I've never looked back! They just sort of become part of the family and it feels so weird to not have one. But then again, I don't have a cat to take up the slack of pet love!

 

[focusondisney]

I am one that agrees I would not be upset if my BIL didn't attend the funeral. I wonder, though, if the BIL WANTED to stay, maybe even INTENDED to stay. But, after being with the family for a day or two was overcome with emotion that was too strong to even handle and ended up in almost a flight response. So, he knew he should stay or whatever but was so overcome with grief that he just couldn't think of anything else to do besides leave. He may have even tried to stick it out awhile, but realized he just wasn't going to be able to go through with it. Using the excuse of Valentines day or not knowing his paid time off policy may just be an excuse to cover. I hope he's not beating himself over it now, especially if he's getting grief from the family.

WOW!! What a thread! I DID read all the posts & this one makes a great deal of sense. We don't know the BILs age, but from the fact that he just moved away 2 years ago, I am assuming mid to late 20's. The Op has said she had many losses in her family, but she didn't say how many close family members this BIL has lost. If this is a first or the closest family member he has lost, he may not have realized just how hard it is. He may have had every intention of going thru the whole "Catholic funeral tradition" but just couldn't do it.

When I was in my 20's I had lost many elderly family members & knew all the "rituals" & learned to get thru them. My kids are now in their 20's & have only lost 1 grandparent 10 years ago & 2 distant relatives. When closer family members do pass on, I'm sure it will be MUCH harder for them, since they have not learned these coping/ grieving skills yet.

This family also seems like they were in denial a bit: Grandfather had time to plan funeral, viewing & after funeral gathering, MIL planned & bought sons suits for funeral but family was " shocked" at his death this weekend. Makes it had for BIL to prepare emotionally for loss of his GF if family not openly acknowledging that his death was coming sooner rather than later.

Last thought: from the comments on having to explain BILs where abouts to relatives & about all viewing,Mass etc, the OP seems VERY focused on tradition & appearances. Maybe this helps her cope. But I agree with everyone else, leave the poor BIL alone to grieve in his own way. Try to help your DH & his family cope instead of making hard feelings.

 

[MariDisney]

WOW!! What a thread! I DID read all the posts & this one makes a great deal of sense. --snipped

I have over 2.000 posts, I think. I'm glad to know I finally got ONE to make sense. My work here is done.

 

[focusondisney]

I have over 2.000 posts, I think. I'm glad to know I finally got ONE to make sense. My work here is done.

Thanks for not pointing out that the thread is like 215 posts long & yours is the only one I said makes sense!!! Apologies to the other 200 plus posters.... you all made sense too!







I just didn't agree with all of you!

 

[Amy&Dan]

WOW!! What a thread! I DID read all the posts & this one makes a great deal of sense. We don't know the BILs age, but from the fact that he just moved away 2 years ago, I am assuming mid to late 20's. The Op has said she had many losses in her family, but she didn't say how many close family members this BIL has lost. If this is a first or the closest family member he has lost, he may not have realized just how hard it is. He may have had every intention of going thru the whole "Catholic funeral tradition" but just couldn't do it.

When I was in my 20's I had lost many elderly family members & knew all the "rituals" & learned to get thru them. My kids are now in their 20's & have only lost 1 grandparent 10 years ago & 2 distant relatives. When closer family members do pass on, I'm sure it will be MUCH harder for them, since they have not learned these coping/ grieving skills yet.

This family also seems like they were in denial a bit: Grandfather had time to plan funeral, viewing & after funeral gathering, MIL planned & bought sons suits for funeral but family was " shocked" at his death this weekend. Makes it had for BIL to prepare emotionally for loss of his GF if family not openly acknowledging that his death was coming sooner rather than later.

Last thought: from the comments on having to explain BILs where abouts to relatives & about all viewing,Mass etc, the OP seems VERY focused on tradition & appearances. Maybe this helps her cope. But I agree with everyone else, leave the poor BIL alone to grieve in his own way. Try to help your DH & his family cope instead of making hard feelings.

I like your thought process! I do think that with the way people live longer, with the way families live great distances apart and with the way many people are cremated and have memorial services long after the fact, some of the old rituals and funeral dos and don'ts are passe now. I got my first taste of loss when I was seven years old and lost my dad, I have friends who have yet to lose anyone, at 45 I have one that still has all four grandparents believe it or not. So when loss happens to her, she'll be at a loss as to how to deal with it.

As for denial, I want to put some perspective on that. Just my own because I don't know Kelly's family. But when my mom died, after a 7 year long battle with cancer and Alzheimers we had so much warning. My stepdad and I planned her funeral out the day before she died since we knew she'd be gone (per hospice nurse's knowledge) in the next 48 hours and it was a holiday weekend coming up. We had talked with hospice workers, I had been going to a caregivers support group for three years and we all talked about the eventuality we all faced. Yet when she died, all of that went out the window. I remember being very composed on the Friday before she died at the funeral home. That Monday I was catatonic, exhausted, grief stricken and just in total shock. My siblings were the same. I think the long time we had to prepare sort of fooled us into thinking we had our bases covered and that when it happened, it would be expected and almost a relief to have her out of her suffering. We were wrong. And we had family issues regarding the attendance of my stepbrothers. I knew we would, they did just what I knew they would and yet when it happened, I just couldn't figure out how to best handle it and was shocked at how much it hurt me. My whole thought process was not what it normally is. As time settled in, I had time to process things and it made more sense and hurt less. But at the time, I was devastated by their attitude and all of us in the family really had a hard time getting over that.

I guess I just think that its hard to really predict or know what's in a family's dynamics and what is the right thing to feel before, during or after.

Puffkin asked if this would upset any of us and she got a lot of good answers as to why others woudln't be upset. And a lot of judgement on why she shouldn't be. Not from you, just commenting on some of the comments that I think have been way out there.

Every few months a thread just pulls me in. I guess this one is IT until May at least!

 

[lauracitawita]

Nope. Wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

I love my friends and relatives and want them to live their lives the way they choose. That makes me truly happy.

I have no desire to place blame or expectations on others.

We're all just trying to get by in this life the best we can!



What is the point of being this upset? What are you gaining from it? Be happy that your bil went home to his wife...where he was happy. Yaaa for happy!

Seriously, I never understand why people want others to do things they don't want to.

 

[MICKEY88]

I didn't read all the posts, but is it possible that BIL was so hurt by the loss that he was having trouble coping, didn't want to show his emotions in front of everyone, and wanted to be with his wife, the one person he might be comfortable with if he had a breakfdown..

I know people who were so devestated by the loss that they couldn't attend funerals of close family members...

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

One would think, an important dis by the BIL like that would've been mentioned straight off the bat. I suppose next we'll hear that he punched a nun on his way out and did donuts on the church lawn screaming "so long suckers!!" as he drove away.

Yes--certainly if promises are made, it might have changed my opinion.

However what is promised at an uncertain time (I'm sure grandpa didn't have an expiration date stamped on his forehead)--sometimes changes as things go along sometimes make promises unfulfillable.