Full Already?

[amylevan]

I called to try and make reservations for the end of Jan/beginning of Feb and after trying many combinations within our available vacation time, all that was available was tent/pop up sites, which we are WAY too big for. Are they really full this far out for a non-busy time of year or do they release sites at other times?

I know I can keep calling back, but I'm a little disappointed that I got the go ahead from DH to start planning and have come up empty.

 

[PixieCamper]

I called to try and make reservations for the end of Jan/beginning of Feb and after trying many combinations within our available vacation time, all that was available was tent/pop up sites, which we are WAY too big for. Are they really full this far out for a non-busy time of year or do they release sites at other times?

I know I can keep calling back, but I'm a little disappointed that I got the go ahead from DH to start planning and have come up empty.

I'm sorry Amy, I posted an explanation for this here:
http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=48639310&postcount=7

The sites are being booked for the perks through travel agencies, but no one is actually using the sites. It's just to get the resort IDs. I hate it but it is what it is

 

[MnMomtoboys]

I'm sorry Amy, I posted an explanation for this here:
http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=48639310&postcount=7

The sites are being booked for the perks through travel agencies, but no one is actually using the sites. It's just to get the resort IDs. I hate it but it is what it is

I'm not doubting you but why don't they just book the cheaper sites?

 

[PixieCamper]

I'm not doubting you but why don't they just book the cheaper sites?

Why doesn't who book a cheaper site? What site is cheaper than $20-30 a night?

 

[amylevan]

The tent/pop up sites ARE the cheapest sites, and that was all that was available when I called. I'm willing to pay for the premium...none available.

 

[MnMomtoboys]

Why doesn't who book a cheaper site? What site is cheaper than $20-30 a night?

Sorry I should of been more clear. I was just wondering why they don't book the tent sites rather than the full sites.

It just sucks that this is happening.

 

[PixieCamper]

Sorry I should of been more clear. I was just wondering why they don't book the tent sites rather than the full sites.

It just sucks that this is happening.

I'm sure they book all the tent sites first, then full, preferred, premium. Even if they book one for $150 a night. I'm sure if they have to book the higher sites, the agencies will try to put 2 families of 2 and 2 families of 3 on a site if possible (just an example) to try and split it 4 ways instead of 3. Or just pass along the higher cost. Their customers are happy and they get credit with Disney for the booking as well as credit for booking wherever their customer really stays.

 

[Flametamr]

I wonder if this is just something that is happening by one TA at that one time a year for some event or if this is now going to be the norm. Guess I'm lucky we got or ressie booked for Halloween. If this is a new thing I hope Disney catches on and takes steps to stop it. I agree you should have to occupy a rented site.

 

[Flametamr]

A question for the OP why is a tent site too big ? Did you mean too small ? Unless I'm wrong all FW sites have a paved area and some have the sand pad at the rear. You can get most stuff to fit.

 

[bama_ed]

There may be something to this, PixieCamper.

I was at the Fort in mid-April of this year and went on a bike ride several times a day in the various loops. It's been my sense that in the spring when weather is so comfortable that the Fort gets a lot of weekend campers coming in from the area around Orlando (a couple hour circle) on Friday and leaving out on Sunday. That's what I expected this year during my visit.

What I saw (and related in my Trip Report) was how strange it was the way the Fort filled up over the weekend I was there. Sure the Partial/Tent sites were full both in loops 1500 and 2000. Tenters, Cub Scouts, weekend folks, etc. But the next most affordable type of sites, the Full (loops 1600-1900) had the two loops in back that each had ONE camper in them the entire weekend (1800 and 1900). All the weekend folks were assigned into 1600 and 1900.

So to me that indicates two things. First, PixieCamper's point is probably true. The travel agencies in question might be leaving the Tent/Partial sites to us regular folk since there are only two loops of that type. But they might be going after the next lowest rung of the ladder which is the Full loops. Maybe that's what was happening on my visit in April like it was happening to Pixie's visit in May.

But that leads me to my second point - I think this is being done with the full knowledge of the Fort management (or they are at least looking the other way). They probably think that there are PLENTY of sites for Full/Preferred/Premium and if folks can't get a Full they'll opt to upgrade their site type. So reallly they might feel they are making room money on sites that would otherwise be empty and non-revenue producing. So it's gravy to them.

But the practice may have grown to the point where it's starting to crowd out folks like the OP amylevan that want to come and don't have a site to upgrade to. And they won't buy at the TP, eat at TE, pay for the recreation (Segway, boat rental), or drop bling for an expensive Disney golf cart (ok, THAT might get their attention ). Then it will have a detrimental effect on the bottom line. If on-site benefits (free parking, extra hours) are available to off-site guests, it dilutes the value of staying on-site and paying a premium for a room. Once the genie is out of the bottle here, it's hard to limit or contain it.

So this practice may explain why I saw two nearly empty loops. I would think if this was NOT happening, Disney would try to evenly assign the Full loops to share/spread the wear-and-tear on the infrastructure and capital assets (such as they are). The fact that all four Full loops weren't more-or-less equally assigned leads me to believe the Management is a willing participant.

Bama Ed

PS - I also believe that someone on the payroll for Disney reviews Disney fan forums and web sites such as this one.

 

[articfox676]

We have also seen this pattern. Living only an hour away we will go to the Fort for the day with our bikes to ride the loops and have lunch. Times of the year (not holidays) there will be several loops with less than half the sites full. Yes sometimes they are doing maintenance. These empty loops are full and premium usually. Never knew why but this could be the reason.

 

[crashbb]

A question for the OP why is a tent site too big ? Did you mean too small ? Unless I'm wrong all FW sites have a paved area and some have the sand pad at the rear. You can get most stuff to fit.

The OP said that they are too big for the site (i.e. the site is too small).

I called to try and make reservations for the end of Jan/beginning of Feb and after trying many combinations within our available vacation time, all that was available was tent/pop up sites, which we are WAY too big for. Are they really full this far out for a non-busy time of year or do they release sites at other times?

I know I can keep calling back, but I'm a little disappointed that I got the go ahead from DH to start planning and have come up empty.

 

[amylevan]

Yeah, we are a 38' fifth wheel...not fitting on a tent/pop up site. <sigh> We were planning on a 2 week trip, our last one before our oldest starts school the following fall. Now I guess I'll be playing the phone game.

How frustrating!

 

[rock_doctor]

New one on us. It does make sense. They get all of the perks of staying on property but pay the off property price. I suspect FW feels it is a great deal for them. Assuming each resort operates as its own entity i.e. they have their own budgets and pay their own bills then it is a win-win for FW. They get the money of having guests but no expenditures...no extra load on the buses, no water used, no power used, no sewer water to be treated and no ware and tear on the sites... Might be a good potential article for the Orlando Newspapers. Can be a simple fraud exposé that Disney would be uninvolved in...so to speak. After all they are being duped also. It is a loss of income for Disney World as a whole... What i don't understand, I thought Disney has a "residency" rule. You have to be in the room a certain amount of time, not hard to swing around the loops and take note which ones are empty day after day. Plus they can look and see it is the same group of travel agencies.

 

[2goofycampers]

I've definitely heard of individuals doing this. Not so sure I believe TA's doing this.
They get a % if they help you spend less they get less. A WDW stay is more $ and less work.

 

[angelmom27]

I've definitely heard of individuals doing this. Not so sure I believe TA's doing this.
They get a % if they help you spend less they get less. A WDW stay is more $ and less work.

I agree I think a TA doing it would be kind of risky too. Disney may frown on that. Also I don't see how this would all really work out. Since the families would still need to take the time to go to the Fort and get KTTW cards and parking passes. At that point wouldn't disney realize they passed max capacity for a site. Especially if its more beneficial to a family of 5. So that would lessen the split and raise the cost. I'm a family of 9 and don't see this to be a good thing in anyway. Too many other perks not being used. The things people do to save a buck.

 

[Teamubr]

This practice sounds exactly like something a creative TA would do. Disney is either complicit or unaware. Either way, it shouldn't be hard to do an internet search and find the TA(s) that are offering this "option". Contact them directly and say you want a spot. They can still add on as many other individuals to the site to get their "perk", only you will actually be occupying the site.

It's worth a shot. Kind of like using stub hub or a broker for sports event tickets.

j

 

[thegoofyfamily]

From what I've heard, it's been a tip on another site for years......and some big families will do it from time to time, HOWEVER, some crafty TA's have seen the green and decided it's a great thing to offer to their clients as a way to stretch their dollar without doing it the "right way."

Now that someone has gotten greedy, it's an idea that is now getting to be an issue and eventually, Disney will put a shop to it. The one making the most profit off of it is the one that will be caught first. And their ability to book Disney travel will go away.

 

[PixieCamper]

There may be something to this, PixieCamper.

I was at the Fort in mid-April of this year and went on a bike ride several times a day in the various loops. It's been my sense that in the spring when weather is so comfortable that the Fort gets a lot of weekend campers coming in from the area around Orlando (a couple hour circle) on Friday and leaving out on Sunday. That's what I expected this year during my visit.

What I saw (and related in my Trip Report) was how strange it was the way the Fort filled up over the weekend I was there. Sure the Partial/Tent sites were full both in loops 1500 and 2000. Tenters, Cub Scouts, weekend folks, etc. But the next most affordable type of sites, the Full (loops 1600-1900) had the two loops in back that each had ONE camper in them the entire weekend (1800 and 1900). All the weekend folks were assigned into 1600 and 1900.

So to me that indicates two things. First, PixieCamper's point is probably true. The travel agencies in question might be leaving the Tent/Partial sites to us regular folk since there are only two loops of that type. But they might be going after the next lowest rung of the ladder which is the Full loops. Maybe that's what was happening on my visit in April like it was happening to Pixie's visit in May.

But that leads me to my second point - I think this is being done with the full knowledge of the Fort management (or they are at least looking the other way). They probably think that there are PLENTY of sites for Full/Preferred/Premium and if folks can't get a Full they'll opt to upgrade their site type. So reallly they might feel they are making room money on sites that would otherwise be empty and non-revenue producing. So it's gravy to them.

But the practice may have grown to the point where it's starting to crowd out folks like the OP amylevan that want to come and don't have a site to upgrade to. And they won't buy at the TP, eat at TE, pay for the recreation (Segway, boat rental), or drop bling for an expensive Disney golf cart (ok, THAT might get their attention ). Then it will have a detrimental effect on the bottom line. If on-site benefits (free parking, extra hours) are available to off-site guests, it dilutes the value of staying on-site and paying a premium for a room. Once the genie is out of the bottle here, it's hard to limit or contain it.

So this practice may explain why I saw two nearly empty loops. I would think if this was NOT happening, Disney would try to evenly assign the Full loops to share/spread the wear-and-tear on the infrastructure and capital assets (such as they are). The fact that all four Full loops weren't more-or-less equally assigned leads me to believe the Management is a willing participant.

Bama Ed

PS - I also believe that someone on the payroll for Disney reviews Disney fan forums and web sites such as this one.

We spend way more at the Fort on food, drinks, clothes, activities, gold carts, etc than we do on a site rental. This last trip we averaged $200-250 per day (granted, this was unusual- we normally spend in the $150-$200 range) for the entire 14 day trip. Not to mention our friends that met us there 7 of the 10 days and spent quite a bit on their own. Phantom guests don't spend anything.

Ed, did you notice the empty tables at Trail's End and cast members sitting and chatting in empty stores? It was just so very odd, kind of surreal. I've never seen the Fort so empty- in all areas. It was creepy.

I've definitely heard of individuals doing this. Not so sure I believe TA's doing this.
They get a % if they help you spend less they get less. A WDW stay is more $ and less work.

I would not have reported it if I did not know for fact at least one agency that is doing this.

 

[bama_ed]

We spend way more at the Fort on food, drinks, clothes, activities, gold carts, etc than we do on a site rental. This last trip we averaged $200-250 per day (granted, this was unusual- we normally spend in the $150-$200 range) for the entire 14 day trip. Not to mention our friends that met us there 7 of the 10 days and spent quite a bit on their own. Phantom guests don't spend anything.

Ed, did you notice the empty tables at Trail's End and cast members sitting and chatting in empty stores? It was just so very odd, kind of surreal. I've never seen the Fort so empty- in all areas. It was creepy.

I would not have reported it if I did not know for fact at least one agency that is doing this.

PixieCamper,

I can't say that I did notice because I stayed out of the Trading Posts and Trails End during my visit. I only went in the Settlement TP once and that was because I saw fellow DIS poster Ken/retired-and-happy inside with a shopping basket full of stuff (at least he was helping keep the local economy afloat there).

As I said I only saw the two empty Full loops. But I was also struck by how empty the rest of the Fort was relatively speaking. 100 (where I was) and 200 were full but you can't judge the whole Fort based on 100-200. That's like judging all the Tent/Partial sites based on 1500 (which is always more full than 2000) unless they BOTH top out.

In my mind I had put it down to how much they have jacked the rates over the past years including "season creep". For example, did you know the sky high Christmas rates now start on Friday December 13? And the extra cost for a Friday and Saturday night is more. With taxes the rack rate for a Premium Christmas time site is approaching $150/night (I'm old - I remember when we were all moaning here about breaking the $100 barrier).

I think a TA doing as you describe (and I believe you, BTW) would pick off the less expensive Full sites. But I think the fewer people are due to the sky high rates. I mean, I've already adjusted my ticket buying pattern to no more than 2 park days per visit. I'm going to stay at Lake Louisa State Park in Clermont again on my next visit so I can get to the Fort early in the morning and avoid one night at the Fort price. Sure the Fort will probably always be full during Christmas week, Easter week, maybe around Halloween week. And you'll have a strong snowbird contingent in the winter months. But the rest of the time,

I'm a data/analytical kind of guy and I would LOVE to analyze occupancy rates, load factors, etc but that's what my gut tells me.

Sorry to go a little off-topic, PixieCamper. I think the TA impact will have some effect, but I think the rate skyjacking is more of a contributor. But that's only Ed's opinion and I have nothing to back it up with.

Bama Ed

PS - I still return to the Fort annually but for fewer nights and fewer days in the parks.