Frustrated with DD's Teacher... HAD MTG TODAY UPDATE...

[poohandwendy]

I am going to be just as brutally honest with you as you were with your DDS teacher:

Crap on a cracker...I think you are analyzing your DDs teacher and kindergarten school experience on a level that is WAAAAAAAY over the top. You pretty much dissected every aspect of her work, found her lacking in almost every way and then pointed out how YOU think she could improve, in detail. I don't know anyone who would not find that more than a little insulting and downright out of line. You cannot control every aspect of your DDs education when she is being educated by others. That is something YOU need to get used to. It is one thing to have concerns, it's quite another to come in with the idea that you can control the teacher, the curriculum and the way the classroom is run. It is not up to you to 'teach' the teacher how to teach. If you feel you know so much more and have all of the answers, then why aren't you doing it yourself?

And now you feel like there is a black cloud over you and your DD? Well, of course there is...you not only became one of 'those parents', you pretty much made a whole new artform out of it.

Honestly, I really do not think there is any way possible that any teacher could live up to your expectations. You are only at the very beginning, from reading your posts...there is no way you won't run into this over and over again. Teachers all do things differently. That is just one of the lessons for children in school, learning how to learn from many different methods and teachers.

I sincerely think you should seriously consider other options, like the homeschooling route. Eiether that or learn to let go a wee bit and give the teachers a chance to do their jobs without being under your microscope.

Sorry to be so harsh, I imagine the teacher thought you were a bit harsh too.

 

[poohandwendy]

I think you went beyond trying to help your daughter when you started telling her how to teach. I think that if you decide to keep your daughter in this class, you need to stop volunteering in that class. You've certainly said your piece. That teacher will never be able to be comfortable with you in the class judging her. The principal should have stepped in and protected her teacher and should ask you not to volunteer in that room IMO.

ITA. I think the Op should back off and stay out of the classroom, period.

 

[Tinkbell]

All I can say is, "Wow". I"m wondering when you got your administrative degree that allows you to evaluate the teachers at your child's school? I think it's best if you stay out of the classroom for a long time.

 

[Miss Inga Depointe]

The real problem I see now is that you are going to be having problems like this from now on until all your kids graduate and you have to do one of two things. Either learn to live with the things you aren't happy with or take the kids out and put them in private school or home school. Because I guarantee that there will be plenty more situations like this one where this came from, and you are just going to make yourself, your kids, and everyone miserable it you don't decide what you are going to do now.

I already mentioned about our move, and our kids had been just starting out in a very intense school on the east coast and we moved to a laid back school in the midwest. At first, as I said, I didn't like practically anything, although I didn't complain to the school, I just supplemented their education and made my husband miserable. As years go on I actually kind of was glad they hadn't gone to the really high pressure school and came to appreciate the things about the new school.

You just can't do this every year or you will hurt and not help your kids. I'm not here to criticize you for having complaints, just to urge you to be smart about what you do with them.

 

[Tinijocaro]

Each school has certian parents who when their names are mentioned, lots of eyeball rolling starts, or when they are seen coming down the hallway, people duck down another hallway. Congrats! I now think you are one of those parents. You really need to back off and let the teacher do her job or homeschool if you think you can do better.

Jackie

 

[grlpwrd]

Yesterday, the teacher took her aside and said to her, "Your MOM told me you don't like school? Can you tell me why because Iwant you to like it here and I want to do whatever I can to help you like it!"

Part of me likes that she's trying to help her but the other part resents that she pit my dd against me. My dd came home screaming at me that I told her teacher she doesn't like school and now I hurt her teacher's feelings.

I think changing her to another school/class or homeschooling her will not be options because she won't tolerate the transition, that is just too hard for her. So, I may need to suffer through the year, supplement her schooling at home. I just don't know what to say going into this meeting on Thursday. I DON"T want to be "That" parent, as I'm sure that's where I probably already am, but more importantly is my child's educational welfare. I realize I may overreacting but not totally and completely. I'm sure none of you here would want your child in this class... with a teacher who talks by naming names, about your kid to other parents, with a teacher who leaves the classroom to go to her car with just a parent volunteer in it. Oh, and by the way, I'm all for teaching the kids how to line up and walk quietly. I know it's a necessary thing. I was there the first week during the painful lesson in my 1st graders class where it took them several minutes to walk down the hall b/c her teacher refused to let them continue walking if they were noisy or touched others. It took a long time, but now, her kids walk down the hall very well-behaved. The K teacher, she will ask them to be quiet or to do this or that, but then just goes about her lesson or about her way down the hall and doesn't call them on their behavior, so in essence, I feel, all they learn is to ignore her b/c she doesn't hold them accountable.

Bottom line is I want my dd to be happy and prepared for a great future and to if not enjoy, at least be okay with going to school.

In your quote above I can see it's all in your interpretation of things and it's been less than 2 weeks of school. One being that you think the teacher is trying to pit you against your dd - it seems like the teacher was genuinely concerned.

Part of going to school is being able to adapt. Even if she has sensory issues your dd still needs to eventually learn how to adapt in a school setting - it's an integral part of survival.

I think you're overreacting, but I would be, too, when it comes to my children as I only want the best for them. Perhaps, though, part of the problem may be because your dd has had 3 years of preschool already. Also, is she your first enrolled in a grade school setting? I get the feeling you are new to public schools.

BTW I don't think you mentioned it, but in what capacity have you worked in the field of education? It seems like you have very high standards.

 

[golfgal]

We had a family, ironically from Missouri as well, move in down the street a few years ago. The first time I met her she went on and on about how smart her kids were and how she was so surprised that the Catholic school was so unorganized and lacked structure, etc., etc. Come to find out she did her school visit the day before school got out for the summer. The kids were cleaning out desks/lockers, etc when she was there. Whatever.

Well, it turns out that she wanted to put her DD into second grade when she was suppose to be in 1st grade because she is so smart and the principal at the Catholic school wouldn't let her. She put her kids in public school and they allowed her to advance her DD to their objections. I was talking to a couple teacher friends and this family came up. The 3 lowest ranking teachers (the ones that have been there the shortest time) draw straws to see who gets stuck with this mom. The kids are nice enough but none of the teachers want to deal with the mom that comes in to the classroom constantly telling everyone how they should run their class, what they should be teaching, etc. Nice way to be known around town. Her older DD is NOT a straight A student like mom thinks, either.

Every teacher has a different teaching style. Some teachers can handle more commotion then others and still do their job effectively. There is NOTHING wrong with kids just playing at the water table and not having the teacher lecturing them about boats sinking. It is called discovery learning-it is hands on learning that many, many kids learn best by. Not all kids learn by reading something out of a book SO teachers need to incorporate many different teaching styles to reach all the kids.

You will now be forever known at "THAT MOM". If I were you I would follow the advice of others and stay the heck out of the classroom. I just have a feeling that the classroom isn't as bad as you make it out nor was the meeting with the teacher or principal as bad as you think. I think your expectations of others are out of line and that is going to make things very difficult for your children in school.

 

[froglady]

This teacher is working under a terrible situation which is no fault of her own (I follow that schedule for carpooling with my neighbor, and if I didn't write it down and check my calendar daily I would get confused) and expected to do it without an aide. Also, you don't mention what happens on the days your DD ISN'T in school; is it possible that the teacher has ANOTHER class of 23 students on those days?

Then, when the teacher thinks she's going to get a little help from a parent volunteer, that parent ends up criticizing almost everything she does, and having a confrontation with her with her boss.

It may be time to sit back and look at the BIG picture. How are this teacher's former students doing academically? How do students from this school perform long term?

If the answer is not so well, it's time to reconsider schools. If the answer is that they perform better than average, it's time to consider that the teacher may be doing something right.

 

[Disney_1derland]

I am going to relate our experience with kindergarten so far so maybe that will give you another perspective on how to deal with the 'newness' of the situation. Please don't take this as an attack on you or your feelings, it is certainly not meant that way. My oldest just started kindergarten this year, so the whole school thing is new to us. I have spent a lot of time observing in the class, just quietly taking it all in and building a relationship with my dd's teacher and the administration. I figure that we are going to be with this admin for the next 8 years (I have another dd that will go to this school two years from now) so I need to develop a good relationship with them.

There are things I like and things I don't like. I hate the 'backwards Thursday' where their daily schedule is backwards from the rest of the week. When I asked what it was I was given an explanation that satisfied me. They switch it up so the kids learn to deal with change and don't get stuck in just one routine, it helps them to adjust later on in life and there will even be days when they throw their whole schedule out the window and do totally new things. This way they can help kids who don't deal well with change learn to cope early in life. WOW-what an amazing thing for them to consider and it will be a useful tool later in life for these kids.

The point to my story is that they do what they do for a reason. It is not 'willy-nilly' everything is thought about to help the children learn to adjust in life and develop skills far beyond what you can see 13 days into the school year.

I would like to relate that my daughter is at the high end of the spectrum in her class and that she has slight Sensory issues. We, together with her doctor, decided not to get her officially diagnosed in the eyes of the school because we don't want her wearing a label this early in her school career. If we need it later, we will do it then. In the meantime we will work with her at home with the doctors direction and utilize the school later on if we need to. We have found that if we don't make a big deal out of her sensory issues then neither does she and at school we see almost no incidents of the sensory thing popping up. She has yet to have any sensory meltdowns at school and we are 45 days in.

While her teacher has been great, I know that my child is the type of child that the teachers will not need to be on top of all the time and that there are other kids who will require much more attention than mine. I also realize that in a classroom of 21 children where she is alone with them 80% of the time she must constantly adapt her teaching style to suit all of the children, not just mine. I cannot expect her teaching to be tailored to my child's needs because that would not be fair to the other 20 children in the class. Does my child feel left out? No. But that is because when she comes to me with complaints about things that happen or how things are handled, we talk about it and reason it out from the teachers perspective. My child understands that the teacher having 20 other children in the class would be like her having 20 little sisters instead of just 1. She realizes how much harder it would be to pay attention to that many kids and make them all happy. I have related her questions back to her daily life so she has a point of reference.

Regardless of whether or not you think this affecting your daughters attitude toward the teacher, it is. And it will continue to deteriorate. You are laying the groundwork for a very rough year and possibly for a very long, unhappy 12 years of schooling. Remember, starting now she is forming her attitudes about school, schoolwork, teachers, her environment, and her own ability to cope with the world around her. You ARE affecting that because she values your opinion and watches your every move.

Please think really carefully about this before it becomes personal, a vendetta of some sort. A lot can be said for grinning and bearing it. You can supplement your childs education at home, that is our responsibility as a parent. It's not the school's job to raise our children as we see fit. It's their responsibility to educate them to state standards and our responsibility to educate them beyond that.

I am sorry you are having such a rough start to what should be a happy time, hang in there, hopefully it will improve.

 

[swilphil]

I am going to be just as brutally honest with you as you were with your DDS teacher:

Crap on a cracker...I think you are analyzing your DDs teacher and kindergarten school experience on a level that is WAAAAAAAY over the top. You pretty much dissected every aspect of her work, found her lacking in almost every way and then pointed out how YOU think she could improve, in detail. I don't know anyone who would not find that more than a little insulting and downright out of line. You cannot control every aspect of your DDs education when she is being educated by others. That is something YOU need to get used to. It is one thing to have concerns, it's quite another to come in with the idea that you can control the teacher, the curriculum and the way the classroom is run. It is not up to you to 'teach' the teacher how to teach. If you feel you know so much more and have all of the answers, then why aren't you doing it yourself?

And now you feel like there is a black cloud over you and your DD? Well, of course there is...you not only became one of 'those parents', you pretty much made a whole new artform out of it.

I agree with everything that PoohandWendy has said here. You need to stay out of this classroom. You have damaged your relationship with this teacher, beyond repair. It's obviously not a positive experience for you to volunteer in this class, and you are putting this poor teacher through hell. Remember, this is Kindergarten, not Harvard.

The one who is going to suffer the most from this is your daughter. If you can't stay away, switch her to another class or school. If you won't pull her out of the class, just leave the teacher alone. Your daughter is home enough for you to supplement her education to your standards.

 

[mickeyboat]

I agree with the rest of the group. You made a huge mistake going in to that meeting criticizing the teacher and offering suggestions on changes that should be made - IN FRONT OF HER BOSS. Frankly, I am surprised your suggestions were even entertained at all, and that you were not summarily asked to leave the school.

Then later in the day, you had the nerve to tell the teacher how much better she was doing after your meeting. How condescending could you have been?

You should have stuck to the first portion of your meeting, discussing the curriculum and issues specific to your daughter. That is really the only business you have with the teacher and principal.

You have definitely hung a black cloud over your children's educational experience. Not only because of your position with the school, but also because of your unattainable standards.

I think you have two choices, you can completely back off, stop volunteering in your child's classroom, encourage and school your daughter at home when you can. Let this year run its course and hope that you can start next year off on the right foot. OR you can withdraw your child from that class and homeschool her. If you continue to behave this way with your daughter's educators, you will never be happy with any school - homeschooling may be your only option.

By the way, last night in the grocery store I saw a book on how parents should deal with their children's schools. I googled it but couldn't find it. I wish you had read this before this year started.

I am sorry to seem so harsh. But I really think you made a huge mistake. Good luck.

Denae

 

[Sleepy]

Crap on a cracker.

I have not heard anyone say that in years! I totally agree with the rest of your post even though I did not quote the entire thing. It's exactly what I wanted to say.

 

[Sleepy]

I have been trying to talk to her teacher and the principal. But I fear, I'm just making things worse by making them think I'm some East Coast @@tch coming in trying to tell them how to run things.

Nuff said.

 

[mom23boys]

I really have to agree with the what the others have said after your update. I truly think you were very disrespectful to the Teacher and the Principal. You should no longer volunteer in the class, if I was that Teacher you would be forbidden from my class.

If you think (and obviously know) you can do a better job then do it. Homeschool your DD because you will never ever be happy with they way she is taught.

Originally Posted by minmate
I have been trying to talk to her teacher and the principal. But I fear, I'm just making things worse by making them think I'm some East Coast @@tch coming in trying to tell them how to run things.

Also this comment made me laugh. Let me give you some advice, I have been there. I grew up outside of Philly and live here today, but for a few years my DH and I lived in Madison, WI. Midwesterners (sp) are some of the nicest, caring, would give you the shirt off of their back people I have ever met, but do not disrespect them with your East Coast Additute it will not be tolerated.

 

[CheshireVal]

You went way over the lines of what is appropriate and respectful, OP.



How would *you* like it if some random unqualified person came in and started telling you how to do YOUR job?

You are going to be a huge embarrassment to your daughter one day if you don't take a step back and stop meddling the way you are.

Sorry to sound harsh, but I'm a teacher and am absolutely appalled with the way you handled this.

 

[minmate]

Wow-- lots of negativity towards me here! Unfortunately, I didn't get much of that when seeking advice from others prior to going into all of this. I don't know if I should even try to address all of these points. I do have teaching experience for kids this age and I have many family and friends who are teachers at this level. I discussed my concerns with them and tried to act on the advice of what to do from their perspective (as teachers). Most of their reactions were that they were appalled at what I was seeing and I imagine that just pumped me up further. I had been told by more than one person that if this teacher was teaching in their district she probably wouldn't have a job anymore.

I really had no intention of telling the teacher HOW to teach, but I didn't expect to be thrown questions of detail asking me how exactly I'd like to see the classroom day unfold? Was I to ignore the question or give a wishy-washy reply?

My initial contact with the teacher and the principal was to set up the consideration to get them to consider moving her out of the class into the other teacher's who has the rep of being much more organized and structured. I never directly asked them this question though because I wanted to be sure that was the right step first. So, when I'm asked,what would you like to see the teacher doing, I explained this was what I was expecting and gave a few examples b/c the terms 'organized" and 'structured' are variable. When they pretty much made it clear that would be a fight to happen and the teacher then discussed my dd's unhappiness with her, I started asking my dd how she felt about THIS classroom. She told me profusely that she likes her teacher. And she's made some friends there, so I decided that to fight for a switch wouldn't really be worth it to her happiness. That's when I switched my focus to how can we best see her through this year w/o the supersized emotional melt-downs and anxiety. Without getting into detail, please realize, there has been a blatant noticeable negative downturn in my dd's emotional state (which began before I ever stepped foot in the classroom) -- and in tracking it, all signs pointed toward stress at school.

Of course, I don't want to be "THAT MOM" nor do I want my kids to be purposely placed in the worst classes (which I personally doubt will happen) and have a label. I love my 1st grader's teacher and I compliment her all the time, by the way. I've praised her to the principal many times. I've sent her notes thanking her for all her efforts. I'm sure she's heard about what's going on, but we have a pleasant relationship and I volunteer in her class too. And, if I see positive things in my Kdd's class, I will praise and compliment her for her hard work. I will NOT stop volunteering unless specifically asked. I think being in the classroom is important to establishing a more positive relationship (parent/teacher). If I drop off the face of the earth, to me, that's hypocrisy. What? I give the teacher crap for 2 weeks then disappear? Don't I care anymore? Was I just out to torture her? It would damage my credibility as I've strongly stated I am committed to my kids' education.

I have contact with all the teachers once a month, due to being the PTO newsletter editor. I am sure they will see I am not crazy. Besides I am in charge of taking info they give me and putting it into readable, grammatically correct paragraphs of info. -- they have to trust me in that respect. I'm sure that some of the teachers are aware of this teacher's rep... she's considered VERY NICE, but only one parent out of about two dozen have responded positively when I've asked them, What did you think of her? -- these are parents whose kids had her in previous years. I believe we do need to support teachers and their efforts. I respect the tough job that it is, but I expect the job to get done too. As I told her, it may be due to the schedule, but when she says they've been in school 15 days, it seems longer to me as my older dd has actually been in school for more than a month and I've been in the school every day. My perspective is probably shifted as to where I expect them to be... I acknowledged that.

I'm sure I haven't handled this in the best way possible, but I've never had to deal with this before and I hope to have learned from it for the future.

Your comments here aren't terribly encouraging, but what's done is done now. I have a bit of a plan (should things continue to go okay) to try to repair the tensions. But other than that, I can't take back anything I've said, nor do I really want to -- maybe having said things a bit more eloquently would have been nice. Really all I can do is pray that God takes care of the situation.

By the way, they work on word blends, phonemic awareness and move in the direction of beginning. They are expected to know the letters and letter sounds and some basic words but no, they don't have to be reading to go to 1st grade.

Math is mostly just patterns, one-to-one correspondance and number recognition.

We didn't have time to talk about any other parts of the curriculum. The teacher was late for the meeting, then had to go early --

 

[justhat]

I think what you need to look at is that the teacher has been teaching kindergarten for over 20 years and that you have never heard of any kids being educationally damaged by her teaching style. Unless I'm wrong and you know something you haven't said, her kindergarten graduates go on to do well in 1st grade, which is ultimately what is important. I really supported you in the beginning, cause I felt you were just concerned about your daughter's emotional well-being in the class, but now I think you're reading way too much into things and being too nit-picky. Her demonstration with the 3 girls and 1 boy and saying 'which one doesn't belong' wasn't the end of the world. I'm pretty sure that all the kids knew the answer to that and therefore knew why, that it was because he was a boy, not cause he's weird, strange, or anything else like that.

Like I said earlier, my daughter started preschool last month-my 1st experience on the parent end of school, after having been a preschool teacher before she was born. There are a couple of things I'm not thrilled with, but for the most part I'm very happy because my daughter gets a few hours a day to socialize with kids her own age, gets to learn from adults other than her family-so conseqently different styles, comes home knowing new things, etc. Do I wish I could walk her into her classroom every morning instead of dropping her off at the front gate? Yes, but that's their policy and what they found works best after years of running this school so I'm willing to trust them on that.

Also, putting another spin on her teacher's style, she may be of the mindset that kids can teach themselves, which is why she doesn't go around the room during free-play interjecting learning. In a Montessori school kids essentially have free-play all day, but they learn quite a bit. My daugther's preschool is an AMI Montessori program that goes through 6th grade and if you ever observe any of these classes during the day, kids are all over the place, working on what they want to do at that moment, without guidance from a teacher. Yes, there are times when the teacher directs them in one way or another, but for the most part they are free to 'teach' themselves, stemming from Montessori's theories that humans are born teaching themselves (walking, talking, etc.). I really believe it helps with independence and is a valuable teaching method for young children (I say young cause I don't know anyone yet who has been in this style through elementary school). Now, I know it's a public school, but it's possible that the teacher thinks along those lines and that's how she structures her day-she may not just be lax, unorganized, and lazy.

 

[minmate]

I hope things start to look up for you and your dd. Just cruious what school district are you in? Is it in the metro area?

I pm'd you this info.

 

[golfgal]

I pm'd you this info.

I am curious, too. Could you PM me as well.

 

[Tigger&Belle]

I have a different take on this and would also, like the OP, be concerned with the lack of structure. There is no reason that when the kids are having free time that the teacher needs to be sitting on the phone, drinking coffee. Maybe the coffee part is ok and if she needs to make a quick call that's one thing, but she should be wandering around the room answering questions, keeping the kids doing what they need to be doing, etc. That's what I did when I volunteered on Wednesday in my son's class. With these little sponges everything is a learning moment, even when they don't have a clue that they are learning. It just happens in a well run classroom. Speaking of classrooms, I need to leave to go to school for the trip to the pumpkin patch.