Frustrated and sad

[castleview]

OP, my heart goes out to you. PLease disregard the posters who seem to be suggesting that education is only for kids who aren't costing the system too much money. Keep up the good fight!!

I don't think that's being said, but I don't think it's unreasonable to be realistic and fair. Now what the OP says she wants sounds reasonable, but I'd be lying if I said people didn't demand (and get) too much. My daughter's friend is in a wheelchair and the parents refuse to send her to school on the specialized bus. They insist on an ambulance to and from school everyday. That is HUGE money.

I sympathize with parents that have to fight this, but please understand the parents of other kids who do not feel their kids are getting what they need. My children's school is terrific at handling kids with disabilities and kids who are behind and need to catch up. However, the average kids on up to the gifted kids are not getting their needs met.

 

[Liberty Belle]

We're gearing up for a 504 meeting on the 27th. They're not making accomodations for my son, either.

After a call from the school this morning, I was "this" close to saying screw it, I'm going to homeschool, but he doesn't want that and it's not fair to him. I'm just going to keep fighting.

I know how you feel.

 

[tw1nsmom]

Ok. Please excuse me. I don't know how to quote multiple people in one post so I'll try to remember all the things I want to answer.

-4 years ago the same speech teacher wanted to discontinue speech. He had just stopped drooling from oral motor problems, was very difficult for strangers to understand, and had very odd speech patterns. I disagreed and got an outside speech/auditory processing evaluation from a very reputable local teaching college. they basically told her she was and idiot (in professional education language). They outlined the numerous ways that he needed extensive speech therapy and found that he also had some auditory processing issues. I requested a new speech therapist. It was denied. She insisted she was on board, but failed to implement many of the suggestions. I'd continually go to her and the team and express my concern with Ds's communication only to be told that they totally understood what he was saying and that he was close to average. All this time he still had two sessions of speech listed on his IEP. Had they taken the time to actually do what was recommended he would be much further along than he is now and may not have fallen so far behind in writing and reading (much of his deficits in those areas are due to his language delays)

-The amount of money I was talking about is the amount extra that will be out of OUR pockets if they don't prove to us that they are committed to changing DS's reading and speech program. We aren't going to allow him to continue to flounder if they continue to fail to do their jobs. But yes, it will cost us more to provide privately what the school is supposed to do than it would be for them to provide it in district. Private speech costs at least $100/hr privately. Specialized reading instruction costs $85 an hour (district reading teachers don't make nearly that much) and he needs instruction 5 days a week.

-when it comes to money, there really isn't much for the district. The only increase in services is by one 30 minute session of speech and three sessions a week of reading. He already has a shared aide, a push-in resource teacher and two sessions of reading. The main problem is that they have no different reading program for children with reading disabilities (ie. they do no multi-sensory reading programs which is the standard for children with reading disabilites). When a child has trouble reading in district they just do more of the same instruction...which works with many children, just not DS. So...I'm looking for a major change in the focus of his program, not in the amount of time or money spent on him.

-another money note. We are more than willing to provide the technology that has been recommended on the evaluation. The school just won't agree to it's use.

-the goal is to get him most of the way out of special ed (he may always need to have extra time for tests, some books on tape or use of a laptop). However, that goal will never become a reality if the school doesn't get on board and help him with his language, reading, writing needs.

-We've already spent thousands of dollars getting supplementary help for him

-before anyone suggests otherwise. Ds is their star pupil and they will tell anyone that. He puts in the most effort, is the best behaved and considered the nicest boy in class. He needs the social interaction and feedback he gets from going to school. If he was miserable I would pull him, but it would kill him to not be in school with his sister and friends.

 

[DizBelle]

Coincidentally, we also found specialists at Vanderbilt who were able to help our daughter with a physical condition she has. They very possibly saved her life. I've been very impressed with them (even though we don't live nearby).




While I work for a school system and completely understand the concept of finances, sometimes a school district has to be pushed into doing what's right. The school district is just as responsible as the OP for pushing this into a lawsuit IMHO.




She's only asking for an extra 30 minutes a week and for the time they are spending to actually benefit her child. Classroom teachers are expected to vary their teaching methods to reach children, and it's not unreasonable to expect the speech therapist to use methods that are recommended by specialists.




Again, she's only asking for an additional 30 minutes per week. We have speech therapists on staff at our schools. They are paid on a teacher salary scale (not what they would make in a private setting). In our case, all that would be required would be that the student would be seen that extra 30 minutes. There would be NO additional cost involved.




Again, I have to respectfully disagree. If she wins, the school district will be put on notice that they MUST provide the services. Most school districts that I know of don't want to take the chance of making things worse after they've lost a lawsuit. Of course, this may vary from state to state.




Again, as I said earlier, there would be no increase in cost in our district. The currently employed ST would just pick that student up another 30 minutes.







As I said earlier, our speech therapists are employed according to the teacher salary schedule (nowhere near what private speech therapists make) and there would be no additional costs.

Which student should have their 30 minutes taken away so the OP's son can have them? That is not an unrealistic scenario. If the 30 minutes cannot be taken away from another student, what does that mean? Do they have to hire another speech therapist? That would be a significant cost.

I don't know where you live but minutes cannot be magically created out of thin air. There are 24 hours in the day and no more. They have to come from somewhere and they do cost money. Unless the speech therapist is currently sitting around twiddling their thumbs for 30 minutes right now AND the school is paying for them to sit around and twiddle their thumbs, there will definitely be a cost associated with providing that 30 minutes of therapy.

 

[kirstenb1]

I don't think that's being said, but I don't think it's unreasonable to be realistic and fair. Now what the OP says she wants sounds reasonable, but I'd be lying if I said people didn't demand (and get) too much. My daughter's friend is in a wheelchair and the parents refuse to send her to school on the specialized bus. They insist on an ambulance to and from school everyday. That is HUGE money.

I sympathize with parents that have to fight this, but please understand the parents of other kids who do not feel their kids are getting what they need. My children's school is terrific at handling kids with disabilities and kids who are behind and need to catch up. However, the average kids on up to the gifted kids are not getting their needs met.

So if the OP is being reasonable, why bring someone else into the discussion? I don't understand the point of this. I have a "normal" kid too, and understand that special ed kids cost the system more money.

But it's a very slippery slope to pick and choose "who is costing too much money". Thank goodness ADA and FAPE are in place to prevent us from sliding down that slope.

 

[horseshowmom]

I don't think that's being said, but I don't think it's unreasonable to be realistic and fair. Now what the OP says she wants sounds reasonable, but I'd be lying if I said people didn't demand (and get) too much. My daughter's friend is in a wheelchair and the parents refuse to send her to school on the specialized bus. They insist on an ambulance to and from school everyday. That is HUGE money.

That's ridiculous, and the school system is foolish for agreeing to it. We have a TMR class in our building and have had bedridden students before (don't have currently), and they were transported on the specialized bus with no problems (I wasn't there for loading and unloading, but I know it had a lift on it).

Which student should have their 30 minutes taken away so the OP's son can have them? That is not an unrealistic scenario. If the 30 minutes cannot be taken away from another student, what does that mean? Do they have to hire another speech therapist? That would be a significant cost.

I don't know where you live but minutes cannot be magically created out of thin air. There are 24 hours in the day and no more. They have to come from somewhere and they do cost money. Unless the speech therapist is currently sitting around twiddling their thumbs for 30 minutes right now AND the school is paying for them to sit around and twiddle their thumbs, there will definitely be a cost associated with providing that 30 minutes of therapy.

In the case of our speech therapists, yes, they have time available in their day to fit in an extra 30 minutes here and there (and I don't mean taking their lunch or planning time). They are not booked back to back to back with students. Also, not all speech therapy is done individually. Often it is done in small groups. I can assure you that fitting in an extra 30 minutes would not be an issue and there would be no additional cost. Our therapists are on contract (the same contract as classroom teachers) for the school day.

 

[castleview]

So if the OP is being reasonable, why bring someone else into the discussion? I don't understand the point of this. I have a "normal" kid too, and understand that special ed kids cost the system more money.

But it's a very slippery slope to pick and choose "who is costing too much money". Thank goodness ADA and FAPE are in place to prevent us from sliding down that slope.

I disagree - I think every case needs to be looked at carefully. For many parents, happiness is only achieved if the world is focused on their own kids. I'm not saying the OP is doing this, but it certainly happens (probably more among "normal" kids parents). I never understood why people think the school system should be required to pay for things insurance companies would never do. Do you not think it's a slippery slope when advanced kids are working on their own in the hallway? That's happening with one of my kids. I'm for it once in a while, but doesn't she deserve some attention and guidance?

We've all been dissatisfied with our schools here and there. I spent most of DD's kindergarten year working with her at home. And I pay for enrichment lessons that benefit them academically. Sometimes you do have to pay some of it on your own.

 

[jodifla]

I disagree - I think every case needs to be looked at carefully. For many parents, happiness is only achieved if the world is focused on their own kids. I'm not saying the OP is doing this, but it certainly happens (probably more among "normal" kids parents). I never understood why people think the school system should be required to pay for things insurance companies would never do. Do you not think it's a slippery slope when advanced kids are working on their own in the hallway? That's happening with one of my kids. I'm for it once in a while, but doesn't she deserve some attention and guidance?

We've all been dissatisfied with our schools here and there. I spent most of DD's kindergarten year working with her at home. And I pay for enrichment lessons that benefit them academically. Sometimes you do have to pay some of it on your own.

The schools only pay for what is directly connected to education and learning. Many kids have disabilities, but they get no help from the schools unless it directly impedes their education, because learning is the school's baliwick.

 

[jodifla]

I disagree - I think every case needs to be looked at carefully. For many parents, happiness is only achieved if the world is focused on their own kids. I'm not saying the OP is doing this, but it certainly happens (probably more among "normal" kids parents). I never understood why people think the school system should be required to pay for things insurance companies would never do. Do you not think it's a slippery slope when advanced kids are working on their own in the hallway? That's happening with one of my kids. I'm for it once in a while, but doesn't she deserve some attention and guidance?

We've all been dissatisfied with our schools here and there. I spent most of DD's kindergarten year working with her at home. And I pay for enrichment lessons that benefit them academically. Sometimes you do have to pay some of it on your own.

Every parent I know who has children with special needs is already paying thousands of dollars every year in supplemental help. I know we are. What many of us try to avoid is having to pay tens of thousands of dollars every year. That's what it can take to try and re-create from scratch on your own with private tutors, therapists and schools what the public schools already have set up.

 

[kirstenb1]

JodiFla, exactly. We're fortunate in that we can afford to pay for therapy for our dd. It means we drive crappy old cars, etc. That is our choice, and I'm glad we have a choice. Our school system certainly does not "pay for what insurance won't". Meanwhile, lower-income special needs kids, are frankly screwed. Their parents are limited to what the school provides.

 

[DizBelle]

Every parent I know who has children with special needs is already paying thousands of dollars every year in supplemental help. I know we are. What many of us try to avoid is having to pay tens of thousands of dollars every year. That's what it can take to try and re-create from scratch on your own with private tutors, therapists and schools what the public schools already have set up.

At the risk of sounding harsh, isn't that part of your job as parents? You chose to become parents. Why is it everyone else's (who had no say in the choice) responsiblity?

 

[castleview]

JodiFla, exactly. We're fortunate in that we can afford to pay for therapy for our dd. It means we drive crappy old cars, etc. That is our choice, and I'm glad we have a choice. Our school system certainly does not "pay for what insurance won't". Meanwhile, lower-income special needs kids, are frankly screwed. Their parents are limited to what the school provides.

Really, because several kids in our school have their own aides all day and a few have their own therapists at all point of day too. I'm not arguing whether the kids should get it or not, I'm just saying the school is spending a lot of money on them and it should come from somewhere else.

BTW, I drive a ten year old car too. It's just being a parent - I won't even depress myself totaling up how much we spend on extra help, extracurriculars, etc.

 

[jodifla]

Really, because several kids in our school have their own aides all day and a few have their own therapists at all point of day too. I'm not arguing whether the kids should get it or not, I'm just saying the school is spending a lot of money on them and it should come from somewhere else.

BTW, I drive a ten year old car too. It's just being a parent - I won't even depress myself totaling up how much we spend on extra help, extracurriculars, etc.

Of course back when we I was a kid these children were kept in separate classrooms, often in separate schools, so we never saw them....or all the help they were getting.

And before that, kids with disabilities were just kept at home or institutionalized. The good old days?

 

[jodifla]

Really, because several kids in our school have their own aides all day and a few have their own therapists at all point of day too. I'm not arguing whether the kids should get it or not, I'm just saying the school is spending a lot of money on them and it should come from somewhere else.

BTW, I drive a ten year old car too. It's just being a parent - I won't even depress myself totaling up how much we spend on extra help, extracurriculars, etc.

Again, these are educational needs.

 

[castleview]

Of course back when we I was a kid these children were kept in separate classrooms, often in separate schools, so we never saw them....or all the help they were getting.

And before that, kids with disabilities were just kept at home or institutionalized. The good old days?

Oh please, mainstreaming is fine but not for everyone. Actually, when I was a kid there was a huge push for schools that dealt with severe special needs. One fantastic public school in our area just closed for budgetary reasons and the parents of those kids were extremely upset.

 

[jodifla]

Oh please, mainstreaming is fine but not for everyone. Actually, when I was a kid there was a huge push for schools that dealt with severe special needs. One fantastic public school in our area just closed for budgetary reasons and the parents of those kids were extremely upset.

I agree, mainstreaming isn't for everyone. But an aide in a classroom is considered a reasonable accommodation. I know of several children who had aides in elementary, and were able to move to middle school without aides. But BECAUSE they had the support when they were young, they are doing well now.

Most districts have classrooms for severe special needs, or they band together and have a central location. Our district has a couple schools with autism classrooms, another couple with cognitive delays, one that deals with emotional impairments. And then there's a county school specially outfitted for kids with intense physical issues.

So specialized classrooms still exist, but the law is that MOST children should be mainstreamed. It's better for all involved, including the non special ed kids.

 

[belle&beast]

I am a school based SLP and I am paid the same as a teacher, so private therapists definitely make more money. But I love what I do and wouldn't change jobs for anything!

I am really surprised that your school is not willing to work with you- in my district "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" and whenever an attorney or lawsuit is mentioned, the administrators take it very seriously. Due process is extremely expensive for the school system and it is avoided at all costs. I'm not sure hw far you have gone yet, but maybe a letter stating your intentions to retain an attorney would get things moving in the right direction.

As far as choosing your therapist, I don't think any district would give in to that easily. She sounds incompetent to me from what you said, but by granting a change the school is in essence saying that she is incompetent. And that opens a new can of worms. I'm not saying they're right to do this, just offering a reason why they changed their minds. In fact this year I travel to a different school to see one student because there were issues with the therapist serving that school, so I know it can be done.

As far as adding more speech therapy time, we very often reconvene to change service times. It may not be the easiest thing to do, but it happens all the time. I will say that in my experience most SLPs don't have 30 minutes in their schedules to just add another session, but we would be able to add him into another established group of students.

 

[jodifla]

I am a school based SLP and I am paid the same as a teacher, so private therapists definitely make more money. But I love what I do and wouldn't change jobs for anything!

I am really surprised that your school is not willing to work with you- in my district "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" and whenever an attorney or lawsuit is mentioned, the administrators take it very seriously. Due process is extremely expensive for the school system and it is avoided at all costs. I'm not sure hw far you have gone yet, but maybe a letter stating your intentions to retain an attorney would get things moving in the right direction.

As far as choosing your therapist, I don't think any district would give in to that easily. She sounds incompetent to me from what you said, but by granting a change the school is in essence saying that she is incompetent. And that opens a new can of worms. I'm not saying they're right to do this, just offering a reason why they changed their minds. In fact this year I travel to a different school to see one student because there were issues with the therapist serving that school, so I know it can be done.

As far as adding more speech therapy time, we very often reconvene to change service times. It may not be the easiest thing to do, but it happens all the time. I will say that in my experience most SLPs don't have 30 minutes in their schedules to just add another session, but we would be able to add him into another established group of students.

Yes, I think many districts don't relish a fight, particularly if they know they won't win.

As far as the therapist, it's a tough one. Although if this therapist isn't following through, it seems like grounds to ask for a new one, perhaps saying it just isn't a good fit.

We've supplemented our school speech therapist with private ones, and had the private one follow the plan from our clinicians.

 

[nickyb720]

I don't know if this would help, but you probably get help from your ACLU.....Just a suggestion.

 

[kirbydog48]

I've paid all my life to support that education, too. DH and I will never have children who will benefit from those taxes we've paid, but we still pay them because that's what living in America is all about: the money goes into a common pot for the benefit of the public.

HOWEVER, if there is one or two families who are insisting that their child's needs warrant excessively more of the public pot than all the other children, then I (as a taxpayer) will take issue with that. IMO it is unfair for two or three or 10 children to go without so that one child can 'have it all'. These are hard times and tax revenues are down. As another poster said, we need to get as much bang for our buck as possible. That's just good financial thinking.

It's not a matter of parents wanting more for their children than others. We have a special education law in this country that dictates that EVERY child is entitled to a Free and Appropriate Public Education (FAPE) in the least restrictive environment. This is a federal law named "IDEA", you can research it so that you learn the facts about special education. As a parent of a special needs child, I have spent thousands of dollars on evaluations so that my child can get the services he needs to be able to be a contributing member of society. What are we supposed to do, say oh too bad, so sad, you'll never graduate and become a drug addict and probably end up in jail because in elementary school you never had education presented in a format that was accessable to you? And believe me, typical kids are not going without. With "No Child Left Behind" there is testing to ensure that everyone is learning. This is our childrens' lives and future.

To the OP, I have been where you are. My son now has an out-of-district placement and is completely thriving. Maybe just bringing a lawyer to a meeting will cause the school department to change their tune? I wish you luck and support.