Frommer's Comes Out as Not in Favor of Paperless Fastpass

[oddman]

Would you trust a movie critic who said he didn't watch the movie? Or a food critic who said he didn't taste the food at a particular restaurant?

I did not say I trust or don't trust anyone, there is no need to put words in my mouth.





Please don't come up with nonsense claiming people can not review a system of guest management without having lived through it, that is just rubbish. I can discern many faulty processes, management methods etc without ever having tried them.
I don't need to go through all possible outcomes, or all methods to identify flawed ones, or ones that do not suit my needs or the needs of some others.

FP+ might be great for you, and that is great but please don't start making up new "experience required" rules in order to exclude people from expressing opinions.


it is nonsense and I suspect that you already know that.

 

[mvk]

I did not say I trust or don't trust anyone, there is no need to put words in my mouth.





Please don't come up with nonsense claiming people can not review a system of guest management without having lived through it, that is just rubbish. I can discern many faulty processes, management methods etc without ever having tried them.
I don't need to go through all possible outcomes, or all methods to identify flawed ones, or ones that do not suit my needs or the needs of some others.

FP+ might be great for you, and that is great but please don't start making up new "experience required" rules in order to exclude people from expressing opinions.


it is nonsense and I suspect that you already know that.

If you don't experience the new system, then you are just guessing what the system is going to be like. Pessimism and skepticism rules the day, though, change is not good.

It was a terrible article, and a respected travel company shouldn't have put this article up. They would've been better off entitling the article: Here's a Wild A## Guess About How Paperless Fastpass Is Going To Affect Travel.

I think it's a testament to the system that where previously, only about 50% of guests were using Fastpass, now approximately 90% of guests are using the new system. Must not be all that bad, huh?

 

[oddman]

In open and free discussion creating rules to exclude other viewpoints is cheap and shameful , you know better but are simply pretending not too.

Writer drew on existing experience with the very similar FP system. For the write to conclude that he/she does not like the new FP+ system is not exactly mental gymnastics. If writer believes limiting the number of FPs per day is a bad thing, then that is it. accept their right to perceive that the new numerical restrictions are not positive for them and perhaps for many others.

usage at 50%, 90% , 100% has absolutely nothing to with writer's right, and readers right to discuss a topic with only limited first hand experience.

 

[mvk]

In open and free discussion creating rules to exclude other viewpoints is cheap and shameful , you know better but are simply pretending not too.

Writer drew on existing experience with the very similar FP system. For the write to conclude that he/she does not like the new FP+ system is not exactly mental gymnastics. If writer believes limiting the number of FPs per day is a bad thing, then that is it. accept their right to perceive that the new numerical restrictions are not positive for them and perhaps for many others.

usage at 50%, 90% , 100% has absolutely nothing to with writer's right, and readers right to discuss a topic with only limited first hand experience.

The writer has a right to write a bad article, but a respected travel company like Frommer's shouldn't have run the article based upon assumptions. They should've had the guy at least try the system prior to slamming it.

It was a terrible article.

 

[oddman]

just as you have the right to call an informative helpful article "bad" and "terrible" instead of posting a real rebuttal.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

And if we carried the viewpoint of experience is required to have an opinion or understanding, how would anything new ever be done or tried, we would have a world where only people who have eaten food are allowed to comment on it, or only people who have been in government are allowed to talk about it....

You have it backwards. Things get tried by those who want the experience before making up their mind. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion on everything but I am paying no attention to the movie critic that hasn't seen the movie or the restaurant critic that has never eaten at the restaurant. They can still have an opinion, it just doesn't have much value to anyone else.

 

[mvk]

just as you have the right to call an informative helpful article "bad" and "terrible" instead of posting a real rebuttal.

How was it informative? It was opinion and speculative, and not based upon experience. It was pretty much the exact opposite of informative.

 

[Lewisc]

The author of the blog makes some good points.

The "blogger" is Jason Cochran author of Frommer's EasyGuide to Walt Disney World. The guide is now in book stores. Not every book/ guide is good. Some of them have mistakes. However Jason isn't some random blogger.

His major point is the new system require preplanning. He doesn't like it because it reduces the spontaneity of your day. He doesn't like the way offsite guests are treated. We don't have to agree but those are valid opinions which don't require using the system.

Many of the analogies in this thread are laughable. I'm not quoting any posters. This is not an attack of any specific poster, just of the idea.

A person who believes being served in a restaurant is one of the things that makes dining out enjoyable doesn't need to dine in a buffet restaurant to know he won't like it. A person who doesn't like sushi doesn't need to dine in a sushi restaurant to know he won't like it. A vegan doesn't have to dine in Shula's to know there will be few, if any, items he'll be able to eat. A person who doesn't want to decide, months in advance what attractions he might want to ride which day doesn't need to experience the new FP+ system. Every advance FP+ given is one less slot available to such a guest.

A person who doesn't like slasher/horror movies doesn't need to see Saw in order to know he won't like it.

My question is how will Disney allocate FP+. Will they all go first to people who book early leaving leftovers for people who book a Disney trip a month or two in advance? Will there be almost nothing available for day guests? Would you use a $100 pass if there is no availability of any of the E ticket attractions that day? Will, as rumored, FP+ mean the end of EMH?

 

[bluetenshi55]

We just got back from a vacation that we book just over 2 months before we were going. We were able to get every fastpass we wanted just fine. It allowed us to sleep in if we wanted to and if we got to the parks early, there was little to no waiting as it was. We also could change them pretty easily on our phones, though the app needs some work.

There is a lot of speculation and complaints from people who haven't even tried it yet, the same thing that happened when the old fast pass system was in place. I was a kid when that went into place and I remember my parents shoving the tickets at me so I could run and get fast passes for the big rides. Even then, we were still able to get on plenty of rides even if we had to wait in line at the during the spring break rush.

It doesn't change your ability to be spontaneous. You can still go stand in line for a ride, you can change fast pass times if they run into something. It's much better than having to race to get the fast passes and by the time you get there have a fastpass for Soarin' at the same time as your dinner reservations.

Disney is a business, people seem to forget that. Of course, they want you to stay on property. It makes them a lot more money. So they give a perk to the people on property or who buy tickets from resellers like Undercover Tourist. You can make Fastpass+ 60 days if you get tickets from Disney or Authorized resellers.

My big beef with the current system (and it's still in beta, so it's going to change folks for better or worse) is with the limit to one park. Why buy park hoppers when I can't utilize my fastpass selections for all the parks I'm going to that day?

The 180 day reservation for restaurants is a lot more limiting in my opinion. You can't really walk up to restaurants anymore and if you book "late" waiting for deals to come out, you're normally out of luck for the popular ones unless you're going during the slow season.

My big point is, give it a try before condemning it. After that, let Disney know about your beefs. They do take feedback seriously and it means a lot more coming from someone who has actually tried something instead of throwing up their hands and saying "It's new. I don't like it and I refuse to try it."

 

[Lewisc]

There is a lot of speculation and complaints from people who haven't even tried it yet, the same thing that happened when the old fast pass system was in place. I was a kid when that went into place and I remember my parents shoving the tickets at me so I could run and get fast passes for the big rides. Even then, we were still able to get on plenty of rides even if we had to wait in line at the during the spring break rush.

It doesn't change your ability to be spontaneous. You can still go stand in line for a ride, you can change fast pass times if they run into something. It's much better than having to race to get the fast passes and by the time you get there have a fastpass for Soarin' at the same time as your dinner reservations.

Disney is a business, people seem to forget that. Of course, they want you to stay on property. It makes them a lot more money. So they give a perk to the people on property or who buy tickets from resellers like Undercover Tourist. You can make Fastpass+ 60 days if you get tickets from Disney or Authorized resellers.

My big beef with the current system (and it's still in beta, so it's going to change folks for better or worse) is with the limit to one park. Why buy park hoppers when I can't utilize my fastpass selections for all the parks I'm going to that day?

The 180 day reservation for restaurants is a lot more limiting in my opinion. You can't really walk up to restaurants anymore and if you book "late" waiting for deals to come out, you're normally out of luck for the popular ones unless you're going during the slow season.

FP+ is being implemented. The question is what happens when it fully rolled out, guests who make a resort reservation are given full information regarding FP+ at the time of their reservation.

We know the current (OK OLD) system treated every guest who entered the park the same. A person doesn't have to try the new system to know they don't like the difference. I'll have a, slightly, different opinion if Disney holds make a significant number of "slots" for same day guests.

You nailed the reason why some people don't think much of the new (OK current) system. The fear it will have the same issues as the 180 day system for dining reservations.

 

[tjkraz]

FP+ is being implemented. The question is what happens when it fully rolled out, guests who make a resort reservation are given full information regarding FP+ at the time of their reservation.

The system has been live for resort guests since November. Overall awareness will certainly rise over time but Disney is going to great lengths to educate incoming guests. We have a late-March trip scheduled and received a boxed flash drive with MDE info, a postcard reminder and multiple emails.

All incoming guests know what is happening...unless they are ignoring all of the above.

We know the current (OK OLD) system treated every guest who entered the park the same. A person doesn't have to try the new system to know they don't like the difference.

People will always form opinions but some appear to be more informed than others. In the case of FP+, opinions seem to be largely tainted by assumptions made in lieu of experience.

You nailed the reason why some people don't think much of the new (OK current) system. The fear it will have the same issues as the 180 day system for dining reservations.

And this is the big source of the incorrect assumptions, IMO. In a single operating day Space Mountain, Soarin, Everest and every other WDW attraction accommodates FAR more guests than "Be Our Guest" does for dinner.

I've been regularly monitoring FP+ availability for a month now...dating back to Martin Luther King Jr holiday weekend. The ONLY attraction that regularly poses problems is Toy Story Mania. It often fills-up around 12-18 hours before the next day begins.

Right now...at 11:30am on Tuesday...TSM is no longer available for today. (Of course, under the old paper FP system all tickets would also be gone for today.) Tomorrow, TSM is still available. It's also available all days through the busy President's Day weekend which starts in 3 days.

The only other things which can present a problem are fireworks and parade viewing. Limited availability leads to them filling up day-before. Popular character meet-and-greets tend to fill up early same day.

Right now, here is the full list of attractions and experiences which are no longer available for booking today:

Ariel meet
Enchanted Tales with Belle
Wishes viewing
Illuminations viewing
Toy Story Mania
Mickey & friends at DAK

That's it. People can walk into the Magic Kingdom at noon and still get FP+ for Space, BTRM and Peter pan, with multiple times available for all.

Even when more people (day guests) are added to the system and crowds higher, there's still plenty of capacity for the rides to absorb everyone. Space Mountain, Soarin and others can accommodate 30,000+ guests in a day. Simply put, there aren't 40,000 people hopping online to try and grab a Space Mountain FP 60 days before their trip begins. Every park..with the possible exception of DHS (TSM) has a wide range of experiences which will appeal to different ages and tastes. The high number of FP+ experiences, limit of 3 per day and tiering at Epcot and DHS will work to preserve flexibility.

Those who plan in advance--perhaps just while drinking their morning coffee at 8am--will probably have a better experience. But in terms of flexibility, I don't see how this is any worse than the old system which forced guests to go out of their way to claim paper FP tickets and then circle back at uncontrollable return times.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

But in terms of flexibility, I don't see how this is any worse than the old system which forced guests to go out of their way to claim paper FP tickets and then circle back at uncontrollable return times.

This is so true! I think people loved that we had FP at all, and didn't think about the negatives. There were definite negatives to the old system that we had gotten adjusted to, but they were still negatives. Big ones! If FP+ was first and changed to regular FP, people would be yelling about the negatives of FP!

 

[Chuckers]

If FP+ was first and changed to regular FP, people would be yelling about the negatives of FP!

"What do you mean I can't reserve FPs anymore?"
"You mean I have to WALK to the ride to get a fastpass?"
"I have to wait 2!!! hours before I can get another one?"
"It's 10 am and I have to come back at 5pm?" (well, that probably still happens now...)
"I am NOT about to run all over the park just to get a Fastpass. This system sucks!"
"But I am staying on site! I should have a perk!"


I've seen a few people say the new system makes them feel rushed... and I think "Really?!? You mean that knowing exactly what rides you have and when you can return, so you can plan more of your day makes you feel more rushed than running to a FP machine and taking a guess about when you have to be back?"

 

[tjkraz]

If anyone is interested, I just checked on FastPass+ availability for the President's Day holiday weekend.

Right now--as of 11:15am on Thursday--the ONLY attraction / experience which is unavailable Friday through Monday is Wishes fireworks viewing on Friday and Saturday. Every other attraction, character meet, fireworks or parade viewing is available for Fri, Sat, Sun and Mon.

This is for a holiday period with higher-than-normal attendance, and all incoming & previous WDW resort guests accessing FP+. To put crowd levels in perspective, online crowd calendars have this holiday weekend rated as a 9 or 10 on a 10-point scale. We visited Epcot a couple years ago on the Sunday of Pres. Day weekend and waited 40 minutes for Seas with Nemo and nearly 20 minutes for Figment.

Additionally, I happened to notice that Fastpasses were still available for Toy Story Mania TODAY. At 11:15am I was offered a return time of 11:50am. Today.

Granted there will still be more guests added to FP+ but I still maintain that the system is designed to still allow for flexibility. This is NOT an ADR scenario where guests will be obligated to book attractions months in advance. These attractions have daily capacity of tens-of-thousands of guests. Simply put, there are not 30k - 40k people rushing to reserve times on Test Track, Soarin, Space Mountain or others right at 60 days.

Even during holiday periods, guests have been able to make their selections same-day and even change on-the-fly while touring the parks.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

"What do you mean I can't reserve FPs anymore?"
"You mean I have to WALK to the ride to get a fastpass?"
"I have to wait 2!!! hours before I can get another one?"
"It's 10 am and I have to come back at 5pm?" (well, that probably still happens now...)
"I am NOT about to run all over the park just to get a Fastpass. This system sucks!"
"But I am staying on site! I should have a perk!"


I've seen a few people say the new system makes them feel rushed... and I think "Really?!? You mean that knowing exactly what rides you have and when you can return, so you can plan more of your day makes you feel more rushed than running to a FP machine and taking a guess about when you have to be back?"

Like the list, that is spot on!

And I agree 100% about how FP+ allows a much more relaxed approach.

If anyone is interested, I just checked on FastPass+ availability for the President's Day holiday weekend.

Right now--as of 11:15am on Thursday--the ONLY attraction / experience which is unavailable Friday through Monday is Wishes fireworks viewing on Friday and Saturday. Every other attraction, character meet, fireworks or parade viewing is available for Fri, Sat, Sun and Mon.

This is for a holiday period with higher-than-normal attendance, and all incoming & previous WDW resort guests accessing FP+. To put crowd levels in perspective, online crowd calendars have this holiday weekend rated as a 9 or 10 on a 10-point scale. We visited Epcot a couple years ago on the Sunday of Pres. Day weekend and waited 40 minutes for Seas with Nemo and nearly 20 minutes for Figment.

Additionally, I happened to notice that Fastpasses were still available for Toy Story Mania TODAY. At 11:15am I was offered a return time of 11:50am. Today.

Granted there will still be more guests added to FP+ but I still maintain that the system is designed to still allow for flexibility. This is NOT an ADR scenario where guests will be obligated to book attractions months in advance. These attractions have daily capacity of tens-of-thousands of guests. Simply put, there are not 30k - 40k people rushing to reserve times on Test Track, Soarin, Space Mountain or others right at 60 days.

Even during holiday periods, guests have been able to make their selections same-day and even change on-the-fly while touring the parks.

That is very good news! Thanks for the info!

 

[BeentoallDParks]

It's been a few months and judging by many of the threads that I have seen on DIS Boards, I think the writer's prediction came true. People ARE frustrated with having to plan so much ahead of time, and even lifelong Disney fans are saying that their trips feel less fun and less spontaneous. People complained for pages and pages that the writer was judging something without having tried it, but I'd say he pretty much called it.

 

[dbramer]

But for every thread that is negative there are equal numbers that are satisfied with it and find it to be an easier way to tour. Especially now with the extra FP+ available.

 

[tjkraz]

It's been a few months and judging by many of the threads that I have seen on DIS Boards, I think the writer's prediction came true. People ARE frustrated with having to plan so much ahead of time, and even lifelong Disney fans are saying that their trips feel less fun and less spontaneous. People complained for pages and pages that the writer was judging something without having tried it, but I'd say he pretty much called it.

Be careful drawing conclusions based upon biased opinions on a fan site. Are you sure that all opinions are being represented equally?

Personally, I've used the system during 3 trips now and still love it. I have no problem choosing 3 attractions to visit. It's easy to decide on a logical arrival time and ride sequence. And I've found the system to have more flexibility to change plans on-the-fly than I ever thought it would have.

And I have quite a few friends & associates who share that opinion...as well as a few who feel otherwise.

So where does that leave us?

Incidentally, if you re-read the original article, it's now sorely out of date. The entire premise of the article is that guests are obligated to pre-plan or risk having a lesser experience. As it turns out, there only a very small number of cases where that's true. For tomorrow--Monday, June 2--the only attractions not available for booking are Toy Story Mania and 7 Dwarfs. 7D will obviously be a problem for months to come due to high demand. Meanwhile Toy Story Mania is available on Tuesday.

So these prognostications of "if you don't pre-plan 60 days in advance, you won't get to experience any of the popular rides!" really have not come true.

And day guests have had access to the MDE app since early April.

 

[BeentoallDParks]

Hm. Just because there is still attraction availability doesn't mean guests don't have to pre-plan. That is a false equivalence. The question isn't if attractions will be sold out. It's if people spoil the magic by reading up ahead of time and submitting to a plan, and if the experience of enjoying Disney for the first time has now been altered. Guests have to pre-plan if they want advance Fastpasses, period. Which means people who would have ordinarily discovered the park as it was designed to be discovered, unfolding step by step and area by area, story by story, will have done all their advance research ahead of time.

 

[tjkraz]

Hm. Just because there is still attraction availability doesn't mean guests don't have to pre-plan. That is a false equivalence. The question isn't if attractions will be sold out. It's if people spoil the magic by reading up ahead of time and submitting to a plan, and if the experience of enjoying Disney for the first time has now been altered. Guests have to pre-plan if they want advance Fastpasses, period. Which means people who would have ordinarily discovered the park as it was designed to be discovered, unfolding step by step and area by area, story by story, will have done all their advance research ahead of time.

But again...there is no obligation to do anything you describe above.

If people wish to go into the parks completely ignorant, they are welcome to do so. After "discovering" Space Mountain, they can tap on their smartphone or use a kiosk to reserve a FP at the time of their choosing.

Guests were just as apt to "spoil the magic" under the old FastPass system.