Frommer's Comes Out as Not in Favor of Paperless Fastpass

[BeentoallDParks]

Frommer's wrote an article today explaining why they don't like the new paperless Fastpass system. I'm not sure I've read of any other major guide companies taking a position.

Though they say they will have to see how it works out, all in all it has some pretty good reasons for having doubts, and the reasons have to do with guest experience, NOT privacy. Much of their thinking has to do with how it will affect people who are not staying at a Disney resort, which is a significant number of guests, when you think about it.

http://www.frommers.com/community/b...y-world-but-pre-planning-burden-will-increase

 

[dcibrando]

....they've already started testing offsite guests access to FP+ as well... so what kind of negative affect are they going to have when they are going to be using the system like others (for now)?

 

[eangel12]

....they've already started testing offsite guests access to FP+ as well... so what kind of negative affect are they going to have when they are going to be using the system like others (for now)?

They won't be using the system like others...others have a 60+ day advantage to book FP+. Off site does not!

 

[rteetz]

They won't be using the system like others...others have a 60+ day advantage to book FP+. Off site does not!

which makes sense its a perk to staying on property. Disney is going to do that so they have people continue to stay on property. That's business.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

which makes sense its a perk to staying on property. Disney is going to do that so they have people continue to stay on property. That's business.

Yes and no.

On-site Disney resort hotel guests (whether staying at Deluxe, Moderate, or Value) and off-site hotel guests (whether staying at the Waldorf-Astora, a timeshare, or Motel 6) pay the same amount for park tickets (ignoring Disney package deals for now).

In the past, everyone was treated the same by the FASTPASS system (ignoring a small number of VIPs).

There were many advantages to staying at a Disney resort -- but being able to effectively push off-site guests out of the way was not one of them.

If the word get outs that off-site guests are at a substantial disadvantage in getting FastPass+ ride reservations, it might make a few people choose Disney resorts -- but it might make far more people decide not bother to visit Disney parks. Their attitude will be, "If Disney wants to treat me as a second-class citizen just because I don't want to stay at an overpriced Disney hotel, I will spend my vacation money somewhere else."

That's dangerous ground for Disney.

The piece at Frommer's is an indication that this is already starting.

It doesn't have to be that way.

If Disney wants to keep strong attendance from off-site guests in addition on-site guests, Disney needs to tweak FastPass+ to make it just as egalitarian as the old FASTPASS system.

 

[nugov2]

Frommer's wrote an article today explaining why they don't like the new paperless Fastpass system. I'm not sure I've read of any other major guide companies taking a position.

Though they say they will have to see how it works out, all in all it has some pretty good reasons for having doubts, and the reasons have to do with guest experience, NOT privacy. Much of their thinking has to do with how it will affect people who are not staying at a Disney resort, which is a significant number of guests, when you think about it.

http://www.frommers.com/community/blogs/arthur-frommer-online/_paper-fastpass-ending-disney-world-but-pre-planning-burden-will-increase

I wonder if they know how bad the lines were yesterday, I bet they will be confirming the new system is bad all the way around if MK continues to see the chaos that had been reported. Has anyone posted how it is today?

 

[wiigirl]

which makes sense its a perk to staying on property. Disney is going to do that so they have people continue to stay on property. That's business.

Exactly.

 

[Reddog1134]

Yes and no.

On-site Disney resort hotel guests (whether staying at Deluxe, Moderate, or Value) and off-site hotel guests (whether staying at the Waldorf-Astora, a timeshare, or Motel 6) pay the same amount for park tickets (ignoring Disney package deals for now).

In the past, everyone was treated the same by the FASTPASS system (ignoring a small number of VIPs).

There were many advantages to staying at a Disney resort -- but being able to effectively push off-site guests out of the way was not one of them.

If the word get outs that off-site guests are at a substantial disadvantage in getting FastPass+ ride reservations, it might make a few people choose Disney resorts -- but it might make far more people decide not bother to visit Disney parks. Their attitude will be, "If Disney wants to treat me as a second-class citizen just because I don't want to stay at an overpriced Disney hotel, I will spend my vacation money somewhere else."

That's dangerous ground for Disney.

The piece at Frommer's is an indication that this is already starting.

It doesn't have to be that way.

If Disney wants to keep strong attendance from off-site guests in addition on-site guests, Disney needs to tweak FastPass+ to make it just as egalitarian as the old FASTPASS system.

But that's really not any different than EMH now. Both guests are paying the same for a park ticket but the on-site guest gets more hours in the park.

 

[BayouDiz66]

Very good point!

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

But that's really not any different than EMH now. Both guests are paying the same for a park ticket but the on-site guest gets more hours in the park.

Fair enough.

But it's a matter of perception.

If a park's published hours are 9 a.m. to 9 p.m., but on-site guests sometimes have the option of an extra hour or two before opening time or after closing time, off-site guests can still plan their days around the published hours.

However, if off-site guests arrive at Epcot in the morning to find that they can't get FastPass+ for Soarin' -- even though they could always get the old kind of FASTPASS for Soarin' -- they will rightfully conclude that they are second-class citizens under the new system.

And they won't be happy -- even if the FastPass+ Guest Services CM offers "Journey Into Imagination With Figment" instead.

 

[dcibrando]

Until everyone is on the system no one has a clue how all of this will truly pan out so this "reporting" either way is just speculation. In my experience it worked VERY well but that was in Dec so I'll wait and see how my others trips this year go

Truth be told...if families are there when the parks open, the number fastpasses anyone "needs" is minimal if any

 

[Missyrose]

Truth be told...if families are there when the parks open, the number fastpasses anyone "needs" is minimal if any

Have you read any of the reports from this past weekend at MK? Being there at RD didn't help very much if you wanted to stay at the park beyond an hour or two. The lines got long really quickly and stayed very long all day, some of the FP return lines included.

 

[Rumors Rocks]

Until everyone is on the system no one has a clue how all of this will truly pan out so this "reporting" either way is just speculation. In my experience it worked VERY well but that was in Dec so I'll wait and see how my others trips this year go

Truth be told...if families are there when the parks open, the number fastpasses anyone "needs" is minimal if any

Agreed.

 

[rteetz]

Yes and no. On-site Disney resort hotel guests (whether staying at Deluxe, Moderate, or Value) and off-site hotel guests (whether staying at the Waldorf-Astora, a timeshare, or Motel 6) pay the same amount for park tickets (ignoring Disney package deals for now). In the past, everyone was treated the same by the FASTPASS system (ignoring a small number of VIPs). There were many advantages to staying at a Disney resort -- but being able to effectively push off-site guests out of the way was not one of them. If the word get outs that off-site guests are at a substantial disadvantage in getting FastPass+ ride reservations, it might make a few people choose Disney resorts -- but it might make far more people decide not bother to visit Disney parks. Their attitude will be, "If Disney wants to treat me as a second-class citizen just because I don't want to stay at an overpriced Disney hotel, I will spend my vacation money somewhere else." That's dangerous ground for Disney. The piece at Frommer's is an indication that this is already starting. It doesn't have to be that way. If Disney wants to keep strong attendance from off-site guests in addition on-site guests, Disney needs to tweak FastPass+ to make it just as egalitarian as the old FASTPASS system.

you have a point but I don't think this article is going to make people stop going to disney. Essentially this is a perk for staying in property I don't understand how it's not. Disney is going to do this so they keep numbers up on property. Disney by far sees the most visitors compared to any nearby park. I don't think you'll see numbers drop by the millions because FP changed. Just over 50% actually used FP because either they didn't know about it or didn't know how to use it. I don't think that is going to change either with this. Disney isn't going to tweak this anymore it's rolled out by the end of the month.

 

[ParrotBill]

Also, take note of the fact that WDW has been offering discounted rooms and/or free dining for a lot of the year over the last 3 years to keep their rooms full.

FP+ could be part of a plan to move more value into a Disney resort stay and get people to book without discounts.

It would take a sharp drop in attendance linked to FP+ dissatisfaction to get Disney's attention. So far they are getting mostly positive feedback... so it is said.

I'm grumbling but I'm not canceling my trips. Not yet.

 

[bcrook]

A substantial part of that article deals with the hassles of pre-planning.

A colleague of mine is headed to WDW for spring break. He is staying off site, and has absolutely no idea of what will be left for his family.

Although he is a rope drop person, in the past he could reap the rewards of early entry and still be able to utilize the FP system deep into the night.

Now people are saying that as long as he does rope drop everything will be ok. But he did that before. So now the rest of the day is definitely a worse experience.

On Site perk - got it. That hasn't even been mentioned by Disney yet. Not a single word, because they don't want to run off the off-site guests. So by keeping on the down low for the last 12 months, they have managed to keep off site guests from bailing on trips with the "hope" that things will change.

My friend is still checking his MDE account daily to see if advanced ride selection opens up for him. He can't believe that Disney would do this intentionally.

Disney should have laid out their plans months ago and let everyone know what the rules are instead of forcing people to gamble on very expensive vacations.

As a DVC "leaser" and a Wyndham Owner (Bonnet Creek) I am torn by this new system. I think I can't make it work while on site, but off-site won't be worth the money unless equal access to the FP reservations are given in advance.

I really did not enjoy wrestling with MDE a month in advance trying to lineup fastpasses for a group of 10 for 5 days. That was horrible.

I can see where Frommer's is coming from.

 

[rteetz]

A substantial part of that article deals with the hassles of pre-planning. A colleague of mine is headed to WDW for spring break. He is staying off site, and has absolutely no idea of what will be left for his family. Although he is a rope drop person, in the past he could reap the rewards of early entry and still be able to utilize the FP system deep into the night. Now people are saying that as long as he does rope drop everything will be ok. But he did that before. So now the rest of the day is definitely a worse experience. On Site perk - got it. That hasn't even been mentioned by Disney yet. Not a single word, because they don't want to run off the off-site guests. So by keeping on the down low for the last 12 months, they have managed to keep off site guests from bailing on trips with the "hope" that things will change. My friend is still checking his MDE account daily to see if advanced ride selection opens up for him. He can't believe that Disney would do this intentionally. Disney should have laid out their plans months ago and let everyone know what the rules are instead of forcing people to gamble on very expensive vacations. As a DVC "leaser" and a Wyndham Owner (Bonnet Creek) I am torn by this new system. I think I can't make it work while on site, but off-site won't be worth the money unless equal access to the FP reservations are given in advance. I really did not enjoy wrestling with MDE a month in advance trying to lineup fastpasses for a group of 10 for 5 days. That was horrible. I can see where Frommer's is coming from.

spring break will be the first true test of the system with the constant flow of crowds. Well he doesn't have to do rope drop but he should get there early earlier the better of course just like before. If Disney says themselves it's a perk that's not going to run away off site guests. Disney wasn't going to lay out all the plans because they didn't have the final product yet they still don't things change all the time.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Disney isn't going to tweak this anymore it's rolled out by the end of the month.

Disney will tweak FastPass+ for years. It will be an long-term process, based on guest feedback and data collected from actual FastPass+ usage, with major tuning the first year and ongoing fine-tuning after that.

Disney will add and delete FastPass+ attractions, shows, and experiences. Disney will tune how much capacity is made available in advance for FastPass+, how much capacity is is held for same-day, and how much standby capacity remains. Disney will do this tuning on an attraction-by-attraction basis, taking attendance levels into account. Disney will try to provide advantages to some categories of guests in such a way that other guests don't feel they're relegated to second-class status.

The perception of FastPass+ by various categories of WDW guests will depend on how well Disney this.

The article at the Frommer's website won't make a bit of real difference. What we discuss on this forum won't make a bit of real difference. Disney fan blog posts won't make a bit of real difference.

But if off-site guests come home from their vacations and tell their friends and co-workers how the new FastPass+ system is unfair, made them feel unwanted, and shut them out from popular attractions, it will hurt Disney park attendance for years to come.

I'm not saying this will happen. It all depends on how well Disney provides a positive PastPass+ experience to on-site AND off-site guests.

 

[bcrook]

Disney will tweak FastPass+ for years. It will be an long-term process, based on guest feedback and data collected from actual FastPass+ usage, with major tuning the first year and ongoing fine-tuning after that.

Disney will add and delete FastPass+ attractions, shows, and experiences. Disney will tune how much capacity is made available in advance for FastPass+, how much capacity is is held for same-day, and how much standby capacity remains. Disney will do this tuning on an attraction-by-attraction basis, taking attendance levels into account. Disney will try to provide advantages to some categories of guests in such a way that other guests don't feel they're relegated to second-class status.

The perception of FastPass+ by various categories of WDW guests will depend on how well Disney this.

The article at the Frommer's website won't make a bit of real difference. What we discuss on this forum won't make a bit of real difference. Disney fan blog posts won't make a bit of real difference.

But if off-site guests come home from their vacations and tell their friends and co-workers how the new FastPass+ system is unfair, made them feel unwanted, and shut them out from popular attractions, it will hurt Disney park attendance for years to come.

I'm not saying this will happen. It all depends on how well Disney provides a positive PastPass+ experience to on-site AND off-site guests.

And right now it is valid cause of concern for my friend who has visited WDW four times in the past two years, and now how absolutely no idea what to expect. He is worried (with good reason). He isn't a DIS board person, and I am just trying to be supportive. But at this point, I don't have much hope that he will return happy.

 

[bcrook]

spring break will be the first true test of the system with the constant flow of crowds. Well he doesn't have to do rope drop but he should get there early earlier the better of course just like before. If Disney says themselves it's a perk that's not going to run away off site guests. Disney wasn't going to lay out all the plans because they didn't have the final product yet they still don't things change all the time.

I understand what you are saying, but my friend booked this trip last year, and has been hoping all year that things will equal out. Disney knows whether or not off site guests will have day of only or full 60 days in advance access. The fact that they have danced around that issue for the past 12 months is really frustrating.

I do think if Disney came out and said that off-site guests will only have kiosk access on the day of arrival and that is the plan. A lot of off site guests would reconsider their trips. This is exactly why Disney is not doing that. There is always hope that things will change. And it still may.

I can't believe that off site guests will be left out. It seems like a better deal for Disney to get their off site guests to lock up park days in advance with their FP+. It seems to me that FP+ was created FOR the off site guests. Get them to buy their tickets in advance, plan their days, and lock them in. Disney already knows the on-site guests are there, now they could start counting up all the off site guests.

The way this has unfolded is interesting.

I can't even see this helping fill rooms for onsite guests. The off seasons are the times that Disney needs to fill, and at those times - FP+ aren't even necessary. During Peak season's when FP"+" are necessary - the occupancy rate is already high without discounts.

None of makes sense to me.