Free Kate

[punkin]

Right, because all prosecutors are lazy hacks who don't care about doing justice?

I think he's using his discretion as a prosecutor and realizing this may be a violation of the law but hardly the crime of the century. And this particular defendant is not so much a threat to society and a predator of children but rather a high school student who made a bad choice.

No. Because if everybody who gets indicted went to trial, the Court system would be overwhelmed. Murderers also plea bargain down to lesser offenses. It depends. I don't think it's the crime of the century. Those don't usually get plea bargained, but our jails are filled with high school students who made bad choices. I just don't see your point, I guess.

 

[lizzi6692]

Yeah, I read the posts saying "My grandmother married at 15" or "In other countries the age of consent is so and so."

Well, I bet that when all these child-brides married, it was also legal for children to work 12 hours a day. It still legal for minors to work long hours in many countries. Things have changed and laws have been created to protect children -and a 14 year old is a child.

In the affidavit you can read that the 14 year old was a virgin when she met Kaitlyn. I think that takes care of the notion of this 14 year old starting anything or being "sophisticated"

Years from now, I wonder how she will feel when she remembers her first sexual experience was in a dirty public bathroom...

Being a virgin does not mean you are incapable of initiating a sexual relationship.

 

[chobie]

...nevertheless she was a sexual abuser.

I disagree. She may have been in violation of the law back them, but she was not an abuser IMO. And to label her that cheapens the definition of that term, IMO.

 

[punkin]

I disagree. She may have been in violation of the law back them, but she was not an abuser IMO. And to label her that cheapens the definition of that term, IMO.

Hmmm...seems like it's all a matter of definitions then. An 18 yo having "consensual" sex with a 10 yo qualifies as abuse in your mind, but not in the mind of a NAMBLA member. In my mind and 18 yo having sex with a 14 yo is abuse (though certainly of a lesser gradation) and in your mind it is not. Nevertheless, the law agrees with my interpretation and a line does have to be drawn somewhere. Ask NAMBLA members and they would have no line drawn at all.

 

[OceanAnnie]

This is the case that is in the news so it is the one being discussed but being gay or straight has nothing to do with it.

Not calling you out per se, others have stated the same thing on this thread. Just an observation.

I really don't understand why people keep saying this has nothing to do with orientation. It's in the news because of the orientation. The websites have the 18 year old and her dad promoting this case as an orientation case hoping to sway public opinion on the law, with t-shirts stating, "Stop the hate".

Why make this the elephant in the room?

It isn't pro or con. It's just THERE. Right in front of everyone's faces. Big elephant. Right. There.

How can it be both a "cause" and "nothing to do with it"?

 

[chobie]

Hmmm...seems like it's all a matter of definitions then. An 18 yo having "consensual" sex with a 10 yo qualifies as abuse in your mind, but not in the mind of a NAMBLA member. In my mind and 18 yo having sex with a 14 yo is abuse (though certainly of a lesser gradation) and in your mind it is not. Nevertheless, the law agrees with my interpretation and a line does have to be drawn somewhere. Ask NAMBLA members and they would have no line drawn at all.

Yes, thinking two high school students in a consensual relationship is the same as an adult raping a prepubescent child. You're being hyperbolic.

 

[chobie]

No. Because if everybody who gets indicted went to trial, the Court system would be overwhelmed. Murderers also plea bargain down to lesser offenses. It depends. I don't think it's the crime of the century. Those don't usually get plea bargained, but our jails are filled with high school students who made bad choices. I just don't see your point, I guess.

My point is, although the system of plea bargaining is in place to prevent the criminal court system from collapsing in on itself, in this case I think the plea is based on what better serves justice rather than what's the cheap and easy thing to do.

And I guarantee you that any case that is charged as murder but pled to something less has a memo in the file outlining the weaknesses in proving the case beyond a reasonable doubt which justified the plea to lessers.

 

[punkin]

Yes, thinking two high school students in a consensual relationship is the same as an adult raping a prepubescent child. You're being hyperbolic.

Actually, it is the the same in kind and only different in degree. In both cases it is an adult having sex with a child (as defined by law). Assuming there was no physical coercion in either case, but an adult convincing the child to comply with promises of love, candy, toys, whatever that particular child's currency was; what is the difference and where do you draw the line? Why do you label one as "rape" and the other a "relationship?" They are essentially the same. The adult "raping" a 10 year old will go to jail for a long time and be on a sex offender registry. The adult in a "relationship" with a 14 year old will get a plea bargain (or a light sentence) and be able to appeal her spot on the sex registry under the Romeo/Juliet law. Again, I am confused about your point.

 

[chobie]

Not calling you out per se, others have stated the same thing on this thread. Just an observation.

I really don't understand why people keep saying this has nothing to do with orientation. It's in the news because of the orientation. The websites have the 18 year old and her dad promoting this case as an orientation case hoping to sway public opinion on the law, with t-shirts stating, "Stop the hate".

Why make this the elephant in the room?

It isn't pro or con. It's just THERE. Right in front of everyone's faces. Big elephant. Right. There.

How can it be both a "cause" and "nothing to do with it"?

Still, I only see the parents trying to make this into a cause and the media quoting the story. When/if gay rights groups take this up than it will be an actual "cause" for you to be saddened by. This isn't a "cause" yet.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Still, I only see the parents trying to make this into a cause and the media quoting the story. When/if gay rights groups take this up than it will be an actual "cause" for you to be saddened by. This isn't a "cause" yet.

Oh, it's a "cause" alright. You don't have to have an organization officially take it on to be a "cause". There could be an organization in touch with them for all we know. Regardless, They certainly have utilized social media like pros!

Look at the attention and the lines this case has drawn. I think the parents have been very effective at turning this into a "cause". It certainly is a cause. They have stated if Kate weren't gay, she wouldn't have the law applied to her. If that isn't making it into a cause, I don't know what is.

 

[chobie]

Not calling you out per se, others have stated the same thing on this thread. Just an observation.

I really don't understand why people keep saying this has nothing to do with orientation. It's in the news because of the orientation. The websites have the 18 year old and her dad promoting this case as an orientation case hoping to sway public opinion on the law, with t-shirts stating, "Stop the hate".

Why make this the elephant in the room?

It isn't pro or con. It's just THERE. Right in front of everyone's faces. Big elephant. Right. There.

How can it be both a "cause" and "nothing to do with it"?

I'm as pro gay rights as one can be and I don't see this as being a gay issue.

As for the parents trying to make it one, although Ill advised, IMO, if my kid was accused of this I would sure do everything in my power to clear his/her name. But, I assume some other people on this thread would call the police on their own sexually abusive child, kick them out of the house. And disown them.

 

[robinb]

As a parent, I would have made sure both me and my child knew the consequences- which Kate's parent's didn't do, they approved of the relationship and did not think of the law. The parents had no idea that this could happen. Sorry, bad parenting there.

I agree. That very question has been in the back of my mind for the last day. Why didn't Kate parents put a stop to the relationship once they found out about it? Who wants their 18-year old to date a 14-year old? Why did they allow the minor girl to stay overnight in January? In my mind they have culpability in this whole fiasco.

Ask NAMBLA members and they would have no line drawn at all.

I think there must be a NAMBLA corollary to Godwin's Law. You lose all credibility in your argument when you bring NAMBLA into it.

 

[chobie]

Oh, it's a "cause" alright. You don't have to have an organization officially take it on to be a "cause". There could be an organization in touch with them for all we know. Regardless, They certainly have utilized social media like pros!

Look at the attention and the lines this case has drawn. I think the parents have been very effective at turning this into a "cause". It certainly is a cause. They have stated if Kate weren't gay, she wouldn't have the law applied to her. If that isn't making it into a cause, I don't know what is.

To me a cause needs more than 2 people calling it so.

 

[bunkkinsmom]

Being a virgin does not mean you are incapable of initiating a sexual relationship.

Sure. Doesn't really matter who initiated it. If a 14 year old makes advances to an 18 year old, it's up to the 18 year old to put a stop to it, or walk away, or whatever.

And to the high school peer issue, I don't really care if they are 4 years apart in age and in the same grade. One is 14, the other is 18. Dating is not the same as having sex (even though I wouldn't let my 14 year old date an 18 year old).

I'm not sure why there is even an argument? 18=adult. 14=minor. A law was broken, a 14 year old cannot consent. I don't care if they were both hermaphrodites.

 

[OceanAnnie]

To me a cause needs more than 2 people calling it so.

Two people? Not so. What was that thing about credibility?

"The "Free Kate" movement hit my wall like a tsunami......picked up the story of Kaitlyn Hunt, this girl first kicked off the Sebastian River High School basketball team for being a lesbian, then expelled when her girlfriend's parents filed charges .... per the Change.org petition page, now with over 36,000 signatures, started by her father.

http://www.bilerico.com/2013/05/mark_and_kate.php

 

[chobie]

Actually, it is the the same in kind and only different in degree. In both cases it is an adult having sex with a child (as defined by law). Assuming there was no physical coercion in either case, but an adult convincing the child to comply with promises of love, candy, toys, whatever that particular child's currency was; what is the difference and where do you draw the line? Why do you label one as "rape" and the other a "relationship?" They are essentially the same. The adult "raping" a 10 year old will go to jail for a long time and be on a sex offender registry. The adult in a "relationship" with a 14 year old will get a plea bargain (or a light sentence) and be able to appeal her spot on the sex registry under the Romeo/Juliet law. Again, I am confused about your point.

Because a do think there is a difference between prepubescent children with adults and two adolescents together.

I think the lines drawn are appropriate here. Charge the 18 year old but use prosecutorial discretion to put this in perspective and plea her to a non-sexual charge. If an adult coerced a preschool child to perform sex acts, they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, up to and including being Jimmy Ryce Acted.

 

[chobie]

Two people? Not so. What was that thing about credibility?

"The "Free Kate" movement hit my wall like a tsunami......picked up the story of Kaitlyn Hunt, this girl first kicked off the Sebastian River High School basketball team for being a lesbian, then expelled when her girlfriend's parents filed charges .... per the Change.org petition page, now with over 36,000 signatures, started by her father.

http://www.bilerico.com/2013/05/mark_and_kate.php

I still think for this to be considered a gay rights cause, I would want the gay rights groups to be taking it on. Who knows why these idiots on the Internet signed it?

 

[OceanAnnie]

I still think for this to be considered a gay rights cause, I would want the gay rights groups to be taking it on. Who knows why these idiots on the Internet signed it?

Here's the thing. Call it what it is. It bugs me to see it marketed as a gay issue and then it can't be addressed as a gay issue if you don't agree with changing the law and how it is marketed. That's what I'm saying.

You can't have it both ways.

Be true.

 

[chobie]

Here's the thing. Call it what it is. It bugs me to see it marketed as a gay issue and then it can't be addressed as a gay issue if you don't agree with changing the law and how it is marketed. That's what I'm saying.

You can't have it both ways.

Be true.

Be true to what? It's not a gay rights "cause" just because the parents want it to be and some idiots on the Internet signed a petition

 

[OceanAnnie]

Be true to what? It's not a gay rights "cause" just because the parents want it to be and some idiots on the Internet signed a petition

Why are they "idiots"? They are responding to how this case is presented. These aren't some "idiots" as you refer to them. You say you support gay rights, and these people are doing that. That's not being true to what you say in my book. So I don't get where you are coming from at all.

I will agree to disagree with you. You believe what you want, and I will do the same. That's the great thing about our country.

FTR, I hope Kate and the girl overcome this. I do believe the law should be applied as it would to any 18 year old in a relationship with a 14 year old. I didn't introduce the orientation. As I stated, it was already there.