Free internet for DVC members

[cymomtx]

When we were at SSR at Thanksgiving I found a free Internet connection (WiFi), but I could not log on to it. I wonder if this was them testing it out?

 

[BroganMc]

When we were at SSR at Thanksgiving I found a free Internet connection (WiFi), but I could not log on to it. I wonder if this was them testing it out?

They're offering free WIRED internet at SSR. SSR does not have a wireless internet service but rather has ethernet drops in every room.

What you may have seen is someone else's wireless network setup using a travel router but with restrictions on who can connect. Seeing a network and being able to join it are two different things. Geeks frequently go driving through an area looking for broadcasting wireless networks and will log on to any unsecured one for some freebie internet use (unauthorized, mind you). That's why anyone who has a wireless network at home should turn off broadcasting of their network SSID and use some sort of security (MAC address filtering is the easiest to configure and most secure). You wouldn't want Jimmy down the street using your broadband to download the latest Hollywood movies and your ISP telling MPAA that the infringing IP was yours.

All the info on how to do this is easily available in your router user manuals. You access the router security programs via a web browser, making it very easy to secure a network.

 

[cymomtx]

NO, This was a FREE WIFI connection. There just was no directions on how to get to the web site to access it. I know the difference between unsecured and secured connections, believe me when my broadband goes down, I use my neighbors unsecured connection. Usually, when you go to Panerra or Starbucks, their website pops up and you have to agree to their rules to use their WiFi and that is what I kept searching for when we were at SSR. There is definatly a WiFi connection there, but at the time there was no connection to the web page for the agreement for usage.

 

[pilferk]

Hold on guys. This doesn't make sense to me. Granted I'm a web design geek and not a network engineer but I always understood that tracking a computer on the net ends and begins with the IP. (ESNs are for cell phones.) The broadband connection assigns a unique IP to the first user computer it sees. A wireless router is actually a computer and so becomes the first it sees. The wireless router then uses NAT to assign internal IPs to any connected wireless computers (on Linksys that would be 192.168.1.xxx). As far as the internet world sees you only have one attached computer to the network = the router itself. No matter what computer you use to check your IP address on the network it will report only the one assigned to your router.

I haven't tried connecting a router to any hotel broadband so I'm not certain how the Terms of Service agreement is handled. However, I've been told by others that they can and do use wireless routers routinely at Disney and Marriott.

(Oh ok, a little research tells me once you plug in the router, the challenge questions will just be asked of the first laptop bringing up its browser. Accept the Terms and your router is all ready to share.)

Traditionally correct.

MOST networks simply base traffic on IP number/address. That's layer 3 addresses and they work just fine. But there are other bits (no pun intended) that can be used as a network identifier. This includes Mac address. Some refer to the Mac addy's as ESN's or EUI's, but they're functionally the same thing. Those are layer 2 addresses.

Even though the IP number on a "standard" router directed packet would contain the correct IP number, the transmission would also contain the PC's (well, ethernet card, actually or wireless network card's) or routers mac addy. The ARP cache, maintained on the network, would not "agree" when comparing the crosswalked IP with the Mac Addy of the router, since you had to INITIALLY connect via a wired PC. Most networks would ignore that, mostly, but you CAN configure a network to sniff them out and limit them, so you can only broadcast from those Mac addresses designated by the network as "acceptable". If you set up the router to clone the mac address, it won't matter since every broadcast will contain the same Mac addy (the routers AND your nic cards) and the ARP cache will "agree".

At least that's the way I understand it.

Whether Disney is, in fact, going through all that "trouble" on their network, I don't know. I'll report back what happens to me in early January and let you all know....though we'll only be using ONE laptop, connected to the wireless router, because it sounds like the only network drop is in the Living room, and we'll want to use the PC in the bedroom, after the kids are asleep, to upload pics and to post here on the DIS.

 

[highoctane]

NO, This was a FREE WIFI connection. There just was no directions on how to get to the web site to access it. I know the difference between unsecured and secured connections, believe me when my broadband goes down, I use my neighbors unsecured connection. Usually, when you go to Panerra or Starbucks, their website pops up and you have to agree to their rules to use their WiFi and that is what I kept searching for when we were at SSR. There is definatly a WiFi connection there, but at the time there was no connection to the web page for the agreement for usage.

Were you in one of the buildings closest to downtown Disney? We were in one in that area last January and every once in a while I could get a strong enough signal to log into it, once I was connected I would just type in the web address that I wanted to go to and it went. I thought it may have been coming from DTD area.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Traditionally correct.

MOST networks simply base traffic on IP number/address. That's layer 3 addresses and they work just fine. But there are other bits (no pun intended) that can be used as a network identifier. This includes Mac address. Some refer to the Mac addy's as ESN's or EUI's, but they're functionally the same thing. Those are layer 2 addresses.

Even though the IP number on a "standard" router directed packet would contain the correct IP number, the transmission would also contain the PC's (well, ethernet card, actually or wireless network card's) or routers mac addy. The ARP cache, maintained on the network, would not "agree" when comparing the crosswalked IP with the Mac Addy of the router, since you had to INITIALLY connect via a wired PC. Most networks would ignore that, mostly, but you CAN configure a network to sniff them out and limit them, so you can only broadcast from those Mac addresses designated by the network as "acceptable". If you set up the router to clone the mac address, it won't matter since every broadcast will contain the same Mac addy (the routers AND your nic cards) and the ARP cache will "agree".

At least that's the way I understand it.

Whether Disney is, in fact, going through all that "trouble" on their network, I don't know. I'll report back what happens to me in early January and let you all know....though we'll only be using ONE laptop, connected to the wireless router, because it sounds like the only network drop is in the Living room, and we'll want to use the PC in the bedroom, after the kids are asleep, to upload pics and to post here on the DIS.

Can you post how to "clone" the mac address? I have gone into my Linksys router, and can only find how to filter the mac addresses so as to only allow those addresses you want(the ones on your wireless cards on all your wireless pc's/laptops). I don't see a "clone" option.
My router is a Wireless "G" with speedbooster.

 

[pilferk]

Can you post how to "clone" the mac address? I have gone into my Linksys router, and can only find how to filter the mac addresses so as to only allow those addresses you want(the ones on your wireless cards on all your wireless pc's/laptops). I don't see a "clone" option.
My router is a Wireless "G" with speedbooster.

Every router is a bit different. Yours may, or may not, offer the option. It's typically a check box option under the "advanced" options...and you usually have to login to the actual router with your admin password to see them.

Not having any experience with your particular router...I have a Netgear at home...I can't give you SPECIFIC instructions (click by click). Maybe one of the other posters can help you out. You could also do a google search on "mac address clone linkys" and see what pops up. I did, but the first links I found were pretty old.....you might find something more recent there.

This is the most recent thing I could find:

http://support.t-mobile.com/knowbase/root/public/tm51414.htm

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Every router is a bit different. Yours may, or may not, offer the option. It's typically a check box option under the "advanced" options...and you usually have to login to the actual router with your admin password to see them.

Not having any experience with your particular router...I have a Netgear at home...I can't give you SPECIFIC instructions (click by click). Maybe one of the other posters can help you out. You could also do a google search on "mac address clone linkys" and see what pops up. I did, but the first links I found were pretty old.....you might find something more recent there.

This is the most recent thing I could find:

http://support.t-mobile.com/knowbase/root/public/tm51414.htm

Ok, I know where that tab is. I will just snoop around, but it should only be a matter of a check box you say? To enable clone mac address? Thanks for all your help! Let us know after your Jan trip how it all went.

 

[nzdisneymom]

I know the difference between unsecured and secured connections, believe me when my broadband goes down, I use my neighbors unsecured connection. Usually, when you go to Panerra or Starbucks, their website pops up and you have to agree to their rules to use their WiFi and that is what I kept searching for when we were at SSR. There is definatly a WiFi connection there, but at the time there was no connection to the web page for the agreement for usage.

Just thought I would point out that hopping on someone's unsecured connection without their permission is a crime in Florida - 3rd degree felony if prosecuted. Not that I think anyone is out there looking for hoppers, but just thought I'd mention it (I was just reading an article related to this and it stuck in my head). Here's the law: Florida Statute 815.06. There are plenty of unsecured networks that are designed / expected to just be hopped on, but as mentioned, many users of wireless routers don't do anything to secure their networks. Just because the door is unlocked doesn't mean it's ok to enter.

You can find out more information about cyber-security here: Secure Florida dot org

 

[pilferk]

Ok, I know where that tab is. I will just snoop around, but it should only be a matter of a check box you say? To enable clone mac address? Thanks for all your help! Let us know after your Jan trip how it all went.

Mine's a simple check box...and then I have to click a button (which is greyed out until I click the check box) to have it actually get the PC's mac address and apply it to the router.

That's pretty much it.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Mine's a simple check box...and then I have to click a button (which is greyed out until I click the check box) to have it actually get the PC's mac address and apply it to the router.

That's pretty much it.

I guess I don't quite understand what you mean by "clone" a Mac address? What I have done at home is to filter out or "restrict" other mac addresses other than the ones on our wireless pc's. Only those addresses have been entered and enabled, and any others that try to get into the network won't have permission because they haven't been entered onto the mac address list. This is a security measure. How does the "clone" option you mention enable our wireless pc's attach to the network at a dvc resort using a travel router? Does your router specifically say "clone"? I would think if I set this travel router up at home, put in the specific mac addresses of the laptops we will be using, enable the filter for each address and we should be on. I guess I don't get what "clone" means or is doing to access the network.

 

[pilferk]

I guess I don't quite understand what you mean by "clone" a Mac address? What I have done at home is to filter out or "restrict" other mac addresses other than the ones on our wireless pc's. Only those addresses have been entered and enabled, and any others that try to get into the network won't have permission because they haven't been entered onto the mac address list. This is a security measure. How does the "clone" option you mention enable our wireless pc's attach to the network at a dvc resort using a travel router? Does your router specifically say "clone"? I would think if I set this travel router up at home, put in the specific mac addresses of the laptops we will be using, enable the filter for each address and we should be on. I guess I don't get what "clone" means or is doing to access the network.

It specifically says clone, on my router.

Your PC has a mac address. When you first "sign on" to Disney's network, via wired connection, with your PC, the network probably makes note of your Mac address on your PC and stores it in their ARP cache. You HAVE to sign on their network that way, currently, to pay the fee and enable access in your room the first time (and probably subsequent times, once every 24 hours).

When you then hook your router up, it doesn't see that as having the same mac address, so won't allow it to connect to their network. Sort of what you do, on your router, at home...only it's Disney trying to control the traffic.

By having your router "clone" your PC's mac address (ie: the router takes on the SAME mac address as your PC used to connect to the Disney network, initially...and no, they won't conflict), the Disney network THINKS your router is your PC....and thus allows it to connect to the network.

All assuming Disney is restricting traffic, at all.

Cable companies have done this for YEARS, restricting traffic to only the Mac addys found during initial setup, so many router manufacturers have provided an automatic way to "clone" a PC's network card/wireless card mac address.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

It specifically says clone, on my router.

Your PC has a mac address. When you first "sign on" to Disney's network, via wired connection, with your PC, the network probably makes note of your Mac address on your PC and stores it in their ARP cache. You HAVE to sign on their network that way, currently, to pay the fee and enable access in your room the first time (and probably subsequent times, once every 24 hours).

When you then hook your router up, it doesn't see that as having the same mac address, so won't allow it to connect to their network. Sort of what you do, on your router, at home...only it's Disney trying to control the traffic.

By having your router "clone" your PC's mac address (ie: the router takes on the SAME mac address as your PC used to connect to the Disney network, initially...and no, they won't conflict), the Disney network THINKS your router is your PC....and thus allows it to connect to the network.

All assuming Disney is restricting traffic, at all.

Cable companies have done this for YEARS, restricting traffic to only the Mac addys found during initial setup, so many router manufacturers have provided an automatic way to "clone" a PC's network card/wireless card mac address.

Thank you for this explanation! Makes much more sense now. Ok, so how would multiple laptop's connect if your only cloning one mac address?

 

[pilferk]

Thank you for this explanation! Makes much more sense now. Ok, so how would multiple laptop's connect if your only cloning one mac address?

The answer is: it depends (and thus, why I'll be testing in early Jan).

IF the Disney network is set up in the more simplistic (and industry standard) method, it's only looking at the mac address of the access point (in this case, first the wired PC to buy/get access, and then the router with the "cloned" mac address from that first PC). Other PC's connecting to the router will be "piggybacking" on the cloned mac address of the router.....so their "different" mac address shouldn't matter....they're not obvious to Disney's network without additional "sluething". That's the best case.

The alternative is that Disney has set up a much more elaborate security system than your average cable company has, engages in some packet sniffing of their network traffic, and ferrets out there are too many "broadcasters" assigned to the one cloned mac address. It's feasibly possible they could do it, but, quite frankly, I'd be shocked if they did. IF they do....there's no work around for connecting multiple machines that I know of. There might be one (I should say..there PROBABLY is one)...I just don't know it.

Again, all this is assuming they're filtering traffic at all. They didn't used to, as of Jan '06...because I was able to use a work router to set up a quick little wireless network for our conference attendees at the contemporary with no issues. That may have changed, though.

 

[BroganMc]

The ARP cache, maintained on the network, would not "agree" when comparing the crosswalked IP with the Mac Addy of the router, since you had to INITIALLY connect via a wired PC.

Ah well, then it's no problem.

To setup a wireless network at SSR you would first plug in the router, then turn on your laptop, and lastly log into your web browser to accept the Terms of Service. Disney's network records records the first MAC it sees: the router. Your other computers are essentially hidden since NAT is handled internally via your router. It's a subnet within a net (or actually a subnet of a subnet of yet another subnet as the internet tends to be. Don't ya just love the technology?) At least these are the instructions I was given for the process. Kinda makes sense if you realize to even get the browser challenge page you would already have to be assigned an IP and have a network connection established. They just wouldn't allow external surfing until you went through the pay gateway. (Also, I believe the pay rates are only recording access to a room jack and not the particular computer. Whenever I had to get refunds for service or saw charges it was designated per room.)

I'm wondering how they will designate between staying on points and cash. Will we be given some sort of entry code to bypass the pay screen? Also, what happens if you stay on points Sun-Thurs then use a member discount for Fri & Saturday? You're never checking out.

Sidenote: I do have a Linksys 54G router. There's a tab on the initial setup screen for MAC Address Clone with a button to "Clone your PCs MAC". I just did that the old fashioned way of IPCONFIG /ALL and wrote down my MAC on a piece of paper. Funny how easy they make things these days. Oh, and the Linksys travel router uses the internal addresses of 192.16.1.xxx.

Oh and second question, I forgot. Where's the jack in SSR studios? I think it's by the table, right?

 

[pilferk]

Ah well, then it's no problem. To setup a wireless network at SSR you would first plug in the router, then turn on your laptop, and lastly log into your web browser to accept the Terms of Service. From then on the network recognizes your access and records the first MAC it sees: the router. At least these are the instructions I was given for the process. Kinda makes sense if you realize to even get the browser challenge page you would already have to be assigned an IP and have a network connection established. They just wouldn't allow external surfing until you went through the pay gateway. (Also, I believe the pay rates are only recording access to a room jack and not the particular computer. Whenever I had to get refunds for service or saw charges it was designated per room.)

Hmmm, interesting. The method you describe simply wouldn't work back in Jan of '06, for me. I plugged in the router, attached to it via laptop (tried both wireless and wired connections), and couldn't get the browser to load the TOS page. I had to jack the PC in, to the wall jack, before it would load the TOS page. However, once I "bought" access, the router worked just fine....which makes me think that you're right: They're only monitoring access via room jack. Not even IP or Mac address. Or they were about 2 years ago.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Ah well, then it's no problem.

To setup a wireless network at SSR you would first plug in the router, then turn on your laptop, and lastly log into your web browser to accept the Terms of Service. Disney's network records records the first MAC it sees: the router. Your other computers are essentially hidden since NAT is handled internally via your router. It's a subnet within a net (or actually a subnet of a subnet of yet another subnet as the internet tends to be. Don't ya just love the technology?) At least these are the instructions I was given for the process. Kinda makes sense if you realize to even get the browser challenge page you would already have to be assigned an IP and have a network connection established. They just wouldn't allow external surfing until you went through the pay gateway. (Also, I believe the pay rates are only recording access to a room jack and not the particular computer. Whenever I had to get refunds for service or saw charges it was designated per room.)

So you would do this after you set up your router to clone the mac address of the laptop that your initally using to plug into the router at the resort? Then any additional laptops would just look for the ssid and connect?

 

[BroganMc]

I had to jack the PC in, to the wall jack, before it would load the TOS page. However, once I "bought" access, the router worked just fine....which makes me think that you're right: They're only monitoring access via room jack. Not even IP or Mac address. Or they were about 2 years ago.

Oh? Hmm, then that suggests they are simply using the browser challenge to activate jack service and don't care what ends up plugged into the jack later. I take it you didn't do MAC cloning on the router?

Still begs the question how they'll dilineate point nights from pay nights, unless there's some sort of coupon code given. I imagine having the Front Desk inform the broadband provider which nights for which rooms are points can get cumbersome. Much easier to have the broadband provider implement an extra line item on the sign-up screen to accept a coupon code that bypasses the required fee.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Ah well, then it's no problem.

To setup a wireless network at SSR you would first plug in the router, then turn on your laptop, and lastly log into your web browser to accept the Terms of Service. Disney's network records records the first MAC it sees: the router. Your other computers are essentially hidden since NAT is handled internally via your router. It's a subnet within a net (or actually a subnet of a subnet of yet another subnet as the internet tends to be. Don't ya just love the technology?) At least these are the instructions I was given for the process. Kinda makes sense if you realize to even get the browser challenge page you would already have to be assigned an IP and have a network connection established. They just wouldn't allow external surfing until you went through the pay gateway. (Also, I believe the pay rates are only recording access to a room jack and not the particular computer. Whenever I had to get refunds for service or saw charges it was designated per room.)


Sidenote: I do have a Linksys 54G router. There's a tab on the initial setup screen for MAC Address Clone with a button to "Clone your PCs MAC". I just did that the old fashioned way of IPCONFIG /ALL and wrote down my MAC on a piece of paper. Funny how easy they make things these days. Oh, and the Linksys travel router uses the internal addresses of 192.16.1.xxx.

So you would do this after you set up your router to clone the mac address of the laptop that your initally using to plug into the router at the resort? Then any additional laptops would just look for the ssid and connect?
Thanks for the Linksys 54G router info.!

 

[kapeman]

It shouldn't matter which you plug in first.

If you are cloning (spoofing is a better term) the MAC address of the laptop any communication via the router will use that MAC address.

So as far as the network is concerned that laptop is the one doing the talking.