FP + What we know and what we want to know

[WillAustin]

I am sorry you dont like the word but it is the root of the problem here.

People got use to touring a certain way since the rollout of FP program years ago.

People were smart to maximize the FP system and take advantage of what Disney allowed with the use of FPs.

Now, that SEEMS to be drastically changing.

Some people think now they should not have to wait in SB lines and never have to wait beyond 15-20 minutes for an attraction no matter what time of the year.

They think that Disney should always make their previous touring style possible and thus this creates an entitlement mentality.

Just listen to people.."if i cant tour the way i always have then i will not be coming back"..."i NEVER wait in lines more than 20 minutes"...etc.

Again, it is a sense of entitlement and one that was frankly enabled by Disney.

I'd like to mention that our "never waiting in lines over 15-20 minutes" had nothing to do with the ability to return after the window, but more with maximizing the number FPs we could get in a day. And I'm not saying we shouldn't have to wait, I'm saying we will choose not to wait, and any changes that force us to make that choice more than we had to before is a net negative. It is our choice to make though, and we can discuss it.

Our tipping point is obviously in a very different place than yours is.

 

[Planogirl]

I am sorry you dont like the word but it is the root of the problem here.

People got use to touring a certain way since the rollout of FP program years ago.

People were smart to maximize the FP system and take advantage of what Disney allowed with the use of FPs.

Now, that SEEMS to be drastically changing.

Some people think now they should not have to wait in SB lines and never have to wait beyond 15-20 minutes for an attraction no matter what time of the year.

They think that Disney should always make their previous touring style possible and thus this creates an entitlement mentality.

Just listen to people.."if i cant tour the way i always have then i will not be coming back"..."i NEVER wait in lines more than 20 minutes"...etc.

Again, it is a sense of entitlement and one that was frankly enabled by Disney.

You sound like a recording.

Of course people are used to visiting the themeparks in a certain way. Why would they not be? Now they have to decide whether it's worth it for them to spend their money after the changes go into effect. You can go on and on about not knowing what the changes will actually be but many people have already booked or would like to and they simply want to know what will happen once they actually travel to this place.

I think that fussing at people for worrying about what their money is buying is a bit much.

 

[bcrook]

The way people are behaving in this thread is deplorable. The good news is that in a few weeks the system will start being rolled out and some folks are going to have to scurry back under their rocks.

Is there anything on first page that is misrepresented, incorrect, or needs updated?

and the system hasnt been fulled rolled out yet either. As you mention, that number could be adjusted even though it was mention as 3 by the VP you mention. It could be more than 3 in the long run and that was my larger point.

I understand your point. But I have a lot of people making plans right now. We don't have any more time left to wait. We have to make our decisions based on what we know right now. Do I wish we had all the details? YES!!! But we don't.

These are the decisions we have made so far. Part of my family is going to South Carolina for spring break now instead of wdw. That decision has been made.

For the June trip I am staying at Kidani but I am not buying AP, I missed the really cheap $399.00 price from DVC, because I didn't have enough information. We have decided to save about $400.00 and go to Busch gardens and sea world.

Now I have friends who need to decide on DVC rooms, and those are not convenient to cancel.

We are doing the best we can.

 

[doconeill]

I see a LOT of posts about entitlement, what it means, blah blah blah.

The crux of the problem has nothing to do with entitlement.

People want to be able to plan their trips. They've had good experiences in the past when they've planned, and want to do so again.

Right now, they can't plan, because there are a lot of questions. But almost certainly, they can't just ignore it, because what info we have does place limits on what they can do with the new system, and a lot of it points to planners who like to hit all the attractions and/or some attractions multiple times will lose out greatly on the new system. I know right now as it stands it negatively affects us.

And it is natural for them to desire a system that worked for them to continue to exist.

Of course, things might change, things might get better, etc. but from all the sounds of it, Disney wants to take away from some to give to others. And hey, at some level I'm all for it.

But I also wonder about the adoption by the "receivers" in this case. If those who didn't have great experiences, waiting forever in lines, did so because they didn't understand FP, etc. - and we KNOW they exist - what makes Disney think they will this time?

Will those people be able to use the web site or the apps effectively? Will they do it in time?

In the end, it could still mean more FP+ for the "power users" - eventually. But I bet that won't happen for a while until Disney understands the true utilization levels, etc.

 

[mom2rtk]

I'd like to mention that our "never waiting in lines over 15-20 minutes" had nothing to do with the ability to return after the window, but more with maximizing the number FPs we could get in a day. And I'm not saying we shouldn't have to wait, I'm saying we will choose not to wait, and any changes that force us to make that choice more than we had to before is a net negative. It is our choice to make though, and we can discuss it.

Our tipping point is obviously in a very different place than yours is.

Very well put!

 

[mesaboy2]

I see a LOT of posts about entitlement, what it means, blah blah blah.

The crux of the problem has nothing to do with entitlement.

People want to be able to plan their trips. They've had good experiences in the past when they've planned, and want to do so again.

Right now, they can't plan, because there are a lot of questions. But almost certainly, they can't just ignore it, because what info we have does place limits on what they can do with the new system, and a lot of it points to planners who like to hit all the attractions and/or some attractions multiple times will lose out greatly on the new system. I know right now as it stands it negatively affects us.

And it is natural for them to desire a system that worked for them to continue to exist.

Of course, things might change, things might get better, etc. but from all the sounds of it, Disney wants to take away from some to give to others. And hey, at some level I'm all for it.

But I also wonder about the adoption by the "receivers" in this case. If those who didn't have great experiences, waiting forever in lines, did so because they didn't understand FP, etc. - and we KNOW they exist - what makes Disney think they will this time?

Will those people be able to use the web site or the apps effectively? Will they do it in time?

In the end, it could still mean more FP+ for the "power users" - eventually. But I bet that won't happen for a while until Disney understands the true utilization levels, etc.

 

[bcrook]

Well, if you poll DISers I think your conclusion will be yes, most people get a FP for more than one headliner each day.

When you look at actual daily attendance and ride capacity numbers, you might see a different story. (Disclaimer: After a few simple google searches, I found a sampling of figures - often by people claiming to be ride operator CMs - with numbers that more or less agree with the numbers I'm presenting here. Take that for what it's worth).

Magic Kingdom annual attendance: 17,000,000
Divide that by 365 days: about 47,000 visitors per day.

Daily ride capacities for the three mountains:
(Assuming 13 hour day)
Space Mountain: 29,000
Splash Mountain: 24,000
Big Thunder Mt: 28,000
Total Mountain Rides per day: about 81,000

This would seem to indicate that the average visitor only gets to ride at most two of the three mountains per day. That's not FP, that's total ride capacity. And for every family that gets an extra ride, someone else is missing out. Also, don't forget that this is using average daily attendance, so on peak days attendance will be much higher. And sometimes ride capacities are lower than expected due to break downs, etc.

Believe these numbers or not. Take them into consideration for a possible Disney motive for limiting FPs or not. It's up to you.

And please understand that I in no way wish to discount anyone's personal heartache with such a move. It will affect me (I've been a super-user of FPs) in the same way it affects others here. I'm just here trying to wait for new information, and throwing in my 2 cents along the way.

Those are interesting numbers.
If you take out the people planogirl mentioned, that changes things quite a bit.

There are also times during the day when here is a shutdown or some of those seats go empty (early morning?).

I still contend that Thrill seekers at Disney need those multiple rides on the thrill rides. Those badges of honor are important. For teens this is going to a be little like that crabby old man down the street that keeps yelling "you kids stay out of my yard."

 

[Doug7856]

You can still all ride together in SB line if you so chose to do so.

Again, do not understand why people now think they are some how entitled now to never have to wait in a line longer than 15 minutes.

That is correct.

What seems to be missing here is that WE MAKE OUR OWN CHOICES. Your choice is not my choice. It's the beauty of the economy.

My choice is that I don't like the POTENTIAL restrictions Disney MAY impose and based on the limited information I choose not to purchase an AP so that my family could stay together and use FastPass+. Your choice may be to wait in the standby line, and that's fine because in this country we are still allowed to make those types of choices.

It is impossible for anyone to fully manage the economy -- either the government or in this case Disney. The choice of the consumer can be anticipated, but not guaranteed. I think that as Disney tries to greater manage the economy within their theme parks, they will find what the Soviet Union discovered, it really isn't possible to anticipate every possible choice.

When I considered the potential Fastpass limitations on the AP, I made the following choices:

• No AP
• My 12 days in the parks will be reduced to 10

The impact on Disney could be:

• I stay at the resort and still purchase my meals at the resort.
• I go to Downtown Disney and spend more money.
• I go to Sea World for the day.
• I cancel my extra days at a Disney resort and go visit my grandparents in South Florida.

Disney will eventually reveal the full rules and I will finalize my decisions. Some options may benefits Disney and some may be a loss for Disney, but I have the CHOICE as a consumer to make those decisions.

One of the frustrations of a forum such as this is that people criticize people's consumer choice without considering that we will each make choices that appear to us to be the best for our situation. My choice to not buy an AP as a buffer against the possibility of Disney dividing my family up on FastPass and Standby is my choice to make.

 

[bigAWL]

Update:

The first guests who "qualify" have been flagged in the reservations system. The intent is to make the offer at check-in. Due to various "reasons" (people making mistakes primarily) the early flagged guests are arriving today but the resorts don't have their stock of bands yet.

The good news is that in a few weeks the system will start being rolled out...

Did I misunderstand what you meant yesterday about the first qualifying guests being offered something yesterday? What were they being offered? What will be rolled out in a few weeks?

 

[bcrook]

That is correct.

What seems to be missing here is that WE MAKE OUR OWN CHOICES. Your choice is not my choice. It's the beauty of the economy.

My choice is that I don't like the POTENTIAL restrictions Disney MAY impose and based on the limited information I choose not to purchase an AP so that my family could stay together and use FastPass+. Your choice may be to wait in the standby line, and that's fine because in this country we are still allowed to make those types of choices.

It is impossible for anyone to fully manage the economy -- either the government or in this case Disney. The choice of the consumer can be anticipated, but not guaranteed. I think that as Disney tries to greater manage the economy within their theme parks, they will find what the Soviet Union discovered, it really isn't possible to anticipate every possible choice.

When I considered the potential Fastpass limitations on the AP, I made the following choices:

• No AP
• My 12 days in the parks will be reduced to 10

The impact on Disney could be:

• I stay at the resort and still purchase my meals at the resort.
• I go to Downtown Disney and spend more money.
• I go to Sea World for the day.
• I cancel my extra days at a Disney resort and go visit my grandparents in South Florida.

Disney will eventually reveal the full rules and I will finalize my decisions. Some options may benefits Disney and some may be a loss for Disney, but I have the CHOICE as a consumer to make those decisions.

One of the frustrations of a forum such as this is that people criticize people's consumer choice without considering that we will each make choices that appear to us to be the best for our situation. My choice to not buy an AP as a buffer against the possibility of Disney dividing my family up on FastPass and Standby is my choice to make.

. I will link this to first page. Great explanation of why the thread was started.

 

[Doug7856]

. I will link this to first page. Great explanation of why the thread was started.

I'm honored!

 

[Cyrano]

Folks it is take a deep breath time

We are trying really hard to keep the thread open and not delete posts/issue infractions.

Please keep your personal direct or thinly disguised attacks for other outlets. On the DIS we expect better.

This is the final public service announcement on this topic

 

[DAZY3BYZ]

That is correct.

What seems to be missing here is that WE MAKE OUR OWN CHOICES. Your choice is not my choice. It's the beauty of the economy.

My choice is that I don't like the POTENTIAL restrictions Disney MAY impose and based on the limited information I choose not to purchase an AP so that my family could stay together and use FastPass+. Your choice may be to wait in the standby line, and that's fine because in this country we are still allowed to make those types of choices.

It is impossible for anyone to fully manage the economy -- either the government or in this case Disney. The choice of the consumer can be anticipated, but not guaranteed. I think that as Disney tries to greater manage the economy within their theme parks, they will find what the Soviet Union discovered, it really isn't possible to anticipate every possible choice.

When I considered the potential Fastpass limitations on the AP, I made the following choices:

• No AP
• My 12 days in the parks will be reduced to 10

The impact on Disney could be:

• I stay at the resort and still purchase my meals at the resort.
• I go to Downtown Disney and spend more money.
• I go to Sea World for the day.
• I cancel my extra days at a Disney resort and go visit my grandparents in South Florida.

Disney will eventually reveal the full rules and I will finalize my decisions. Some options may benefits Disney and some may be a loss for Disney, but I have the CHOICE as a consumer to make those decisions.

One of the frustrations of a forum such as this is that people criticize people's consumer choice without considering that we will each make choices that appear to us to be the best for our situation. My choice to not buy an AP as a buffer against the possibility of Disney dividing my family up on FastPass and Standby is my choice to make.

Exactly! Some here feel though that we all should lower our expectations for our Disney trip even though the cost continues to rise pretty dramatically. We are all "entitled" here you know. In the end, we all will have to make the decisions for how to spend our money and how to vacation that is right for our families.

 

[mom2rtk]

That is correct.

What seems to be missing here is that WE MAKE OUR OWN CHOICES. Your choice is not my choice. It's the beauty of the economy.

My choice is that I don't like the POTENTIAL restrictions Disney MAY impose and based on the limited information I choose not to purchase an AP so that my family could stay together and use FastPass+. Your choice may be to wait in the standby line, and that's fine because in this country we are still allowed to make those types of choices.

It is impossible for anyone to fully manage the economy -- either the government or in this case Disney. The choice of the consumer can be anticipated, but not guaranteed. I think that as Disney tries to greater manage the economy within their theme parks, they will find what the Soviet Union discovered, it really isn't possible to anticipate every possible choice.

When I considered the potential Fastpass limitations on the AP, I made the following choices:

• No AP
• My 12 days in the parks will be reduced to 10

The impact on Disney could be:

• I stay at the resort and still purchase my meals at the resort.
• I go to Downtown Disney and spend more money.
• I go to Sea World for the day.
• I cancel my extra days at a Disney resort and go visit my grandparents in South Florida.

Disney will eventually reveal the full rules and I will finalize my decisions. Some options may benefits Disney and some may be a loss for Disney, but I have the CHOICE as a consumer to make those decisions.

One of the frustrations of a forum such as this is that people criticize people's consumer choice without considering that we will each make choices that appear to us to be the best for our situation. My choice to not buy an AP as a buffer against the possibility of Disney dividing my family up on FastPass and Standby is my choice to make.

What a thorough and well-written post!

. I will link this to first page. Great explanation of why the thread was started.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I should!!!! And see if they can put a picture of Eeyore on it

Beautiful! You should work for Disney marketing... I'm tellin' ya'!!

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

Others may think I feel entitled but to me it is what my time is worth. As much as I love Disney, there is nothing there I wish to wait 2 hours for to ride if it means just standing in a line for those 2 hours. The way we used FPs before, we still waited 2 hours to ride a ride but it was shopping, having lunch, going to the bathroom or sharing a treat and watching the people go by. It is not worth the price of Disney tickets to my family to only ride 5 or 6 rides in a day. This is the reason my family has never been to any other theme park. I remember going to Carowinds and Six Flags as a teenager since I live fairly close to both and waiting in lines like that. Then we started going to Disney when my DS was 1 and I have never taken him anywhere but there because of the way the system worked. I have always felt we got the most for our money at Disney even though it cost more than other parks. If that makes me seem entitled then so be it.

Our family is also a RD till closing time family. Because of this we were able to do so much. And yes, I am unhappy that I will no longer be rewarded for spending my whole day in the park and spending lots of money there. The fact that a family can spend only 4 or 5 hours and we both receive that same amount of FPs doesn't make me want to spend more time in the park. It makes me want to spend less time there. So in that sense I do feel entitled. I liked that I was rewarded for the extra time I spent in the park and we were only limited by the amount of time we were willing to spend in the park. It seems the people that showed up at noon and were upset about the FPs could be called entitled just as much as us "super-users" seem to be.

Much of this will depend on what happens to the SB lines which since I have no real time info on, seems to me will only increase. Pushing us "super-users" into the SB lines will only make them longer. And I don't think that those that didn't use FP before will suddenly start using it now.

Bottom line is...I do believe my money entitles me to something. I do hold out hope that things will be better than I imagine but I think it is unfair to be labeled entitled to be worried that my money will not be as well spent as it has been in the past.

 

[jade1]

That is correct.

What seems to be missing here is that WE MAKE OUR OWN CHOICES. Your choice is not my choice. It's the beauty of the economy.

My choice is that I don't like the POTENTIAL restrictions Disney MAY impose and based on the limited information I choose not to purchase an AP so that my family could stay together and use FastPass+. Your choice may be to wait in the standby line, and that's fine because in this country we are still allowed to make those types of choices.

It is impossible for anyone to fully manage the economy -- either the government or in this case Disney. The choice of the consumer can be anticipated, but not guaranteed. I think that as Disney tries to greater manage the economy within their theme parks, they will find what the Soviet Union discovered, it really isn't possible to anticipate every possible choice.

When I considered the potential Fastpass limitations on the AP, I made the following choices:

• No AP
• My 12 days in the parks will be reduced to 10

The impact on Disney could be:

• I stay at the resort and still purchase my meals at the resort.
• I go to Downtown Disney and spend more money.
• I go to Sea World for the day.
• I cancel my extra days at a Disney resort and go visit my grandparents in South Florida.

Disney will eventually reveal the full rules and I will finalize my decisions. Some options may benefits Disney and some may be a loss for Disney, but I have the CHOICE as a consumer to make those decisions.

One of the frustrations of a forum such as this is that people criticize people's consumer choice without considering that we will each make choices that appear to us to be the best for our situation. My choice to not buy an AP as a buffer against the possibility of Disney dividing my family up on FastPass and Standby is my choice to make.

My "guess" is if AP holders had no limits, they would reserve TSM every day of the year "just in case" they decide to go. Similar to "walking" a DVC ressie.

I still think when it comes down to it, an AP holder will be able to reserve more than 20 if staying more than 5 days.

 

[Doug7856]

My "guess" is if AP holders had no limits, they would reserve TSM every day of the year "just in case" they decide to go. Similar to "walking" a DVC ressie.

I still think when it comes down to it, an AP holder will be able to reserve more than 20 if staying more than 5 days.

I agree. I just wish Disney would announce the plan already and let it's guests make appropriate decisions. Soon I guess...

 

[reelmom]

I am sorry you dont like the word but it is the root of the problem here.

People got use to touring a certain way since the rollout of FP program years ago.

People were smart to maximize the FP system and take advantage of what Disney allowed with the use of FPs.

Now, that SEEMS to be drastically changing.

Some people think now they should not have to wait in SB lines and never have to wait beyond 15-20 minutes for an attraction no matter what time of the year.

They think that Disney should always make their previous touring style possible and thus this creates an entitlement mentality.

Just listen to people.."if i cant tour the way i always have then i will not be coming back"..."i NEVER wait in lines more than 20 minutes"...etc.

Again, it is a sense of entitlement and one that was frankly enabled by Disney.

But wasn't that the intent of FP's to begin with? To minimize waiting in line? So I don't think it is an entitlement, it worked the way Disney advertised it.

 

[ryalluvdiz]

But wasn't that the intent of FP's to begin with? To minimize waiting in line? So I don't think it is an entitlement, it worked the way Disney advertised it.

I agree! If it aint broke, dont fix it.... I guess they thought it was broke... But disney set it up that way. Sorry if i was able to take full advantage of it as a super-user!