FP + What we know and what we want to know

[doggydoc]

I actually like the idea of the Express Pass. We've never been to Universal, but I'm thinking of looking into it though, especially since my kids are getting older. I personally don't mind the idea of paying more for shorter lines.

This is my point. Disney has already conceded "the rides arms race" now they are conceivably conceding the FP/Express Pass competition. What makes them look like the better on-site experience now? I love Disney hotels but a in comparison of rate vs amenities US wins again. Fortunately my DD is 13 now and has hopefully outgrown her love affair with ASMu.

 

[estherhead]

A very logical and eloquent post. But it loses steam when you get to the sentence quoted above. If everyone wants more than 3 FP+ per day (even the people who are leading the cheers for the new system...and I agree with your premise here), and we don't get them, how does this play into your conclusion that the ultimate goal is to make everyone happy? Haven't they done the one thing that will make people complain and downgrade their Trip Advisor rating? It seems to me that there are two camps developing. Those that are assuming that the 3 FP+ system with one e-ticket will be implemented as stated with no FP1.0 option available, and those who are hoping that this is not the case and that the allotment will increase. I'm not sure I hear anyone saying that the 3 FP+ per day system is an improvement. Only those who hope it will not roll out the way we are assuming it will.

I agree with you to an extent. My theory is that we only know what we've had. We don't know what's on the table. I get FP for all major headliners. And I stand in line to meet characters and to get food. Meeting characters and getting food is stressful for me. And I wait an hour for Fantasmic.

What if I have to stand in more 20 min ride lines but I don't have to stand in line at all for characters, food, and Fantasmic?

And those 20 min ride lines are all like Haunted Mansion and Pooh with fun things to do for the 20 minutes?

If my overall line/waiting time is reduced and the stress of keeping little ones happy at Fantasmic and character lines is reduced, AND if they bring my lunch to me while I sit happily at a table with my kids then I don't mind. Because overall I'm happier.

 

[DougEMG]

Did you see the interview where the EVP stated that their position is that by creating a better experience for more guests serves their bottom line? If they make a larger number of people happy with their line waiting experience, then those people spend more and return more often.

It's not just a bottom line decision. It is about satisfying a greater percentage of guests which will favorably effect the bottom line.

Happy guest = increase bottom line.
Unhappy guest go else where.

What is interesting is that we can see how building Harry Potter increased attendence at Universal. Will this do the same for Disney or will more people decide to go stay onsite at Universal and get the front of the line pass.

 

[DougEMG]

EXACTLY. Some people will scurry off to SB lines. Others will leave to do other things, like shop or eat. Quite simply, the person who used to ride Soarin' at RD and grab a FP for later will now ride Soarin' at RD, use their FP+ for Test Track which they previously obtained, and then, at 2:00 pm, when the line at Soarin' is 100 minutes will have to choose to get in that line, or go do something else. Many folks, especially the seasoned veterans, will go do something else. Maybe stroll around WS and spend money in shops. Even the people who are lauding the system here are admitting that the days of them doing rides like Soarin', Test Track and TSM 4 or 5 times in a day will be over. I think that on this point, there is uniform agreement. The question is, what are you going to do in the time that you used to spend repeating rides? Are you going to wait in SB lines for attractions that interest you to a lesser degree or are you going to do something at WDW that causes you to spend money? There is no wrong answer to that. But WDW is counting on a certain, not insignficant percentage of people going to do other things instead of sitting through Impressions of France three times a day.

Totaly agree with you. Disney is betting a billion dollars guests will find enough other things to do at WDW that will keep them happy and not go elsewhere like Universal, SeaWorld, Busch Gardens....

 

[mousermerf]

There has to be more to this than just limiting guests to 3 FP a day, with no repeating rides. THey could have re-programmed the FP kiosks to do this for a lot less that a billion dollars.



Also, a significant number of guests will not stand in a 100-minute ride to re-ride something they have experienced already that day with a FP. So, if 'super-user's ride once at RD, and once later with FP, they are probably not going to do that ride again. 'Regular users' will have slept in, and ridden once with their FP, but aren't going to wait again. The FP line will remain as busy as ever, because all FP will still be given out, but won't the SB line get shorter, as many who used to ride once SB, are now riding with their FP?

Part A..

Guests using wristbands with charging privileges spend more money. This has been proven at other resorts destinations.

Guests wearing wristbands can be tracked as they move through the park and "ping" Disney's sensors. Much better demographic information will be linked to actual guest movement instead of averages. They'll know exactly what type of guest rides Soarin and what type rides Dumbo and which type spends more money and which is worth investing in a similar attraction as part of "Menu Planning" for the future (Menu Planning is the division between WDI and Operations that decides what is going to be built and when.)

Guest wearing RFID bands allows for personalization of attractions.

Guests using RFID pass the entry area more quickly than barcode cards and turnstiles.

FP+ reservations will help Disney better assess projected crowd levels and staff accordingly.

Guests at their FP+ limit will be directed to non-FP+ attractions, and guest who have FP+ for an e-ticket will also get FP+ for lesser attractions resulting in better utilization of existing facilities.

 

[mousermerf]

Another quick note - you get up to ten digits to identify your band. If that means they print your name on it before they mail it to you (that's the intent with resort guests) is unknown, but 10 digits is the limit. Can be a nickname, can't be anything obscene, derogatory, etc..

 

[Bambi5826]

For all of the "go with the flow" DISers..... I have a headache! I don't want to plan like this....,

Agreed. I'm getting dizzy just thinking about it.

 

[Lorilais_mommie]

You know who is really going to get blind sided by this whole thing..
Are those people who tested the system.. Then they come back sign up for FP+ thinking it will be like last time... Where they are able to use both FP+ and FP-
Only to find out when they get the parks they will not be aloud to draw FP-...

Talk about bait and switch...

 

[mousermerf]

You know who is really going to get blind sided by this whole thing..
Are those people who tested the system.. Then they come back sign up for FP+ thinking it will be like last time... Where they are able to use both FP+ and FP-
Only to find out when they get the parks they will not be aloud to draw FP-...

Talk about bait and switch...

This half-truth keeps getting repeated.. Disney knows exactly what the FP+ and FP- usage was among those tested.

 

[Lorilais_mommie]

This half-truth keeps getting repeated.. Disney knows exactly what the FP+ and FP- usage was among those tested.

I understand that...
But the tested were not forced to choose between the two...
This is why they have soo many FP+ pulled for fireworks and shows..

Its almost like the rigged the numbers..
Of course people are going to like an ADDED bonus and to be able to FP on things the have not be able to before..

However they still used FP- for the big headliners..

disney Selling to the general public, by stating that most who tried it, loved it.. Its not right.. When they are making the general public choose between the two..

The general public should be given the same thing that was in the testing...
If they were I think most people would welcome it with open arms...
And view it as a good thing..

 

[mousermerf]

I understand that...
But the tested were not forced to choose between the two...
This is why they have soo many FP+ pulled for fireworks and shows..

Its almost like the rigged the numbers..
Of course people are going to like an ADDED bonus and to be able to FP on things the have not be able to before..

However they still used FP- for the big headliners..

disney Selling to the general public, by stating that most who tried it, loved it.. Its not right.. When they are making the general public choose between the two..

The general public should be given the same thing that was in the testing...
If they were I think most people would welcome it with open arms...
And view it as a good thing..

No, they didn't.

 

[mom2rtk]

No, they didn't.

They did too. I pulled headliner FPs all day for our friends who were on FP+ for the test in December. I was the runner for the group and pulled theirs as well.

 

[Lorilais_mommie]

No, they didn't.

People have posted here, they did...
There are a few people the other FP+ threads that were in a couple test groups..
That posted they got to use both.. So when they schedule the FP+ then were able to pull FP- for and ride that had FP-..

I think is disney rolled it out that way.. Most people would be fine..
But they are chosen to make have people opt. Into FP+ and then not be able to use FP- for the rest of their trip..

 

[Lorilais_mommie]

They did too. I pulled headliner FPs all day for our friends who were on FP+ for the test in December. I was the runner for the group and pulled theirs as well.

Thank you.. I knew I read that they were allowed to do so..

 

[Missyrose]

No, they didn't.

They absolutely did, there have even been posters either on this thread or the FP+ AP thread who said they would have hated being part of the FP+ test if they COULDN'T pull regular FPs for the headliners.

 

[UNCFanatik]

I understand that...
But the tested were not forced to choose between the two...
This is why they have soo many FP+ pulled for fireworks and shows..

Its almost like the rigged the numbers..
Of course people are going to like an ADDED bonus and to be able to FP on things the have not be able to before..

However they still used FP- for the big headliners..

disney Selling to the general public, by stating that most who tried it, loved it.. Its not right.. When they are making the general public choose between the two..

The general public should be given the same thing that was in the testing...
If they were I think most people would welcome it with open arms...
And view it as a good thing..

They were testing a PART of the FP+. And they may have been testing just different functionalities

When people sign up for a TEST, they would know that what they are testing may end up different than it was when they tested it. That is what tests are for.

No one is part of any "bait and switch" scheme by Disney.

Disney didnt commit to those testers that it would be the the same in the end.

AND you didnt see any final surveys from these testers.

Again, more guesses and conjecture all to meet a preconceived notion.

 

[doconeill]

They were testing a PART of the FP+. And they may have been testing just different functionalities

When people sign up for a TEST, they would know that what they are testing may end up different than it was when they tested it. That is what tests are for.

No one is part of any "bait and switch" scheme by Disney.

Disney didnt commit to those testers that it would be the the same in the end.

AND you didnt see any final surveys from these testers.

Again, more guesses and conjecture all to meet a preconceived notion.

We all _hope_ that the suits understand than any customer satisfaction ratings based on the tests they've done based on the ability to utilize both systems won't be valid if they continue with this exclusion without offering alternatives.

They may have alternatives planned. We know that Nick Franklin says they have the "expectation" to offer more, but there is no guarantee.

(I just discovered that I kept posting "Frankin" based on the video, and thought I verified his name, but it is indeed Franklin)

 

[UNCFanatik]

We all _hope_ that the suits understand than any customer satisfaction ratings based on the tests they've done based on the ability to utilize both systems won't be valid if they continue with this exclusion without offering alternatives.

They may have alternatives planned. We know that Nick Franklin says they have the "expectation" to offer more, but there is no guarantee.

(I just discovered that I kept posting "Frankin" based on the video, and thought I verified his name, but it is indeed Franklin)

It would be interesting to see what they had the testers complete, if anything, after they completed the testing.

There were many facets of this to test.

And just because they tested it one way, doesnt mean its the final product.

 

[finedice]

It will be doom/gloom for certain types of guests. That's a given.

How much those people matter (the answer is generally that they dont as a minority) is really what should be discussed.

I've yet to see an intelligent or well articulated argument for why anyone should be allowed to ride something 6 times in a day with less than 20 minute waits while 5 other families are forced to wait 2 hours or more or not ride at all.

I couldn't articulate it more clearly than saying that no one was forced to wait 2 hours or more or not to ride at all. The same advantages were always available to all ticket holding guests. The playing field was always level.

As in anything in life - do your homework, learn the rules, and if you work harder at all of that - you will likely have an advantage over the less prepared.

 

[bcrook]

100's of posts to catch up on! What a busy day everyone has had.

Disney has a pretty good track record when it comes to creating and enhancing a great experience for guests. I guess I don't get where all this negativity comes from. I'm left wondering: why do these people still LIKE Disney and WDW?? With all these nefarious motives an horrible management, why keep coming back for more??

I think this is a strange comment. I am a DVC owner, so I will come back for 43 years I guess. I enjoy Kidani, and Disney hasn't done anything to diminish that. But there are lots of things that Disney does that is disheartening...and it doesn't matter if it is good for the bottom line or not, it still causes a reduction in benefits or a rise in frustration. The list is long covering several years: Cutting an hour off of evening magic hours, only showing Fantasmic! every other night, raising the price of Boma from $28.00 a meal to $45.00, closing the Wonders of Life pavilion and not opening something else, raising ticket prices, or reducing monorail operating hours. These things all may be justified, but they decrease the experience. I think it is ok to discuss it with others, because I have to decide how much money I am going to spend at WDW, and I appreciate the comments of others. My experience is being severely cut by the this new program. Simply not allowing FP pulls at two parks in one day is a serious limitation for me.

I'm counting on it!! That's why I'm still following this thread even though we essentially know NOTHING at this point!

We know a great deal since this thread was started. The terms and conditions are very clear. The comments from Nick Franklin and the information on the wdw Q&A is pretty clear. We know quite a bit of the motive from the Computerworld article and the NYtimes. We know far more than nothing.