FP--- Disney has become too regimented

[Angel Ariel]

I think Disneyland prioritizes repeat guests over first-timers and once-in-a-lifetimers. As DLR is a once (or twice) in a lifetime thing for my family, it kinda stunk. But I really don't know how they can make everyone happy, so I guess they just do what makes them more $$$.

How did DlR's approach negatively impact your time there? Serious question, not snarky at all.

I ask because it isn't like we go to.DLR like locals do. We went when I was a child.because I had family nearby, and then DH and I went from 2009-2011 when we lived in the Pac NW, but we are east coast now. We are planning our DD's first DLR trip right.now, and we are *so* excited to see the 60th anniversary stuff they are doing. I really feel like they are making such a big deal in large part for the locals, yet I feel I am benefitting as well. There is so much that is new there since just 2011. I appreciate what they do to.keep the parks fresh for.locals as it geberally means there is new stuff when we visit as well.

 

[Jennytoon]

We rarely made RD, usually getting to a park 30-45 mins after opening. We did.not sprint to legacy machines, we did.not use fp runners, and we had no issues at all getting headliner fps.

I don't say this as "mourning" legacy, or expecting it to ever come back (I don't). I say it because the hyperbole of "you had to be there at RD and sprint to a fp machine if you wanted any headliner fp" is just as wrong as the hyperbole about fp+.

Just to clarify, I think the issue that many people have (including if carefully read perhaps the poster you were responding to) is not that the FPs ran out, but that the return times for headliners quickly got high enough to be personally unsuitable. We were last there in 2013, and it was the first year that the ages and needs of our children allowed us to stay in the park past 12:30 or so. So if we got to Epcot at 9:30 and pulled a FP for Soarin with a return time of 10:30 (which I think is a number that many would agree is realistic and possibly even conservative for that timing), then by the time we were eligible to pull another FP all the return times for rides that actually benefited from FP would be out of our "window". I know that many are successful getting their kids to nap in strollers, but for us and many others trying that would have been the road to meltdown city.

As an aside, I have always appreciated / respected that when speaking of FP+ you are careful to state what aspects worked and didn't work for you, and your effort to not use phrasing that implies your experience represents everyone, and that your attitude, as you say, is clearly to make the best vacation of what is available now rather than crying over spilt milk.

 

[Magic Band Defender]

Part of me wonders if hopper sales are down with the introduction of FP+ since they are requiring purchase of hopper (or water park) option to get free dining this year.

I wondered that as well! There are probably several factors that went into the decision, but that's the first thing that popped into my head.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Just to clarify, I think the issue that many people have (including if carefully read perhaps the poster you were responding to) is not that the FPs ran out, but that the return times for headliners quickly got high enough to be personally unsuitable.

I do understand that, and I should have been more clear. The above wasn't an issue for us either. We've been at DHS and grabbed a tsmm fp around 930 or so for maybe 1130 or 12? Same for soarin. Soarin we even pulled another one at around 11ish for a return time somewhere between 1-2. That was march 2013, so not a "dead" time period either. At MK we were pulling mountain fps well into the early evening. On one of our 2013 trips we pulled BTMRR around 5ish (+/- 20 mins) that was for 30 mins later. So overall, I do think it is hyperbolic to say that one *had* to arrive at RD and sprint to fp machines in order to get a headliner fp.There are times I'm sure that was true, but it was not all day every day throughout the year.

I wouldn't say my experience was what it was all the time either...I really don't know. I can only speak to what I experienced. I just think using the extremes on either side doesn't really help.the discussion.

As an aside, I have always appreciated / respected that when speaking of FP+ you are careful to state what aspects worked and didn't work for you, and your effort to not use phrasing that implies your experience represents everyone, and that your attitude, as you say, is clearly to make the best vacation of what is available now rather than crying over spilt milk.

Thank you I do try, and it is nice to know that it is recognized and appreciated . I also appreciate how willing you are to hear all sides and not dismiss others' thoughts or experiences though they may be different from yours!

 

[Astridia]

Part of me wonders if hopper sales are down with the introduction of FP+ since they are requiring purchase of hopper (or water park) option to get free dining this year.

I wonder why a company that claims an 85% occupancy rate offers free dining at all! I think most resorts that were enjoying this kind of popularity would raise their rates and eliminate all incentives.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

There are multiple reasons why people don't like fp+. Lack of re ride ability is definitely one of them for some people, but I would not assume that everyone who dislikes fp+ dislikes it for that reason.

Agreed. For us it is the sum of the whole. I noticed when bathroom cleanliness and merchandise quality decreased, we assumed both were temporary, and tempered by a legacy of fond memories dating to the early 1970's. Most my posts over the years have been supportive, helping folks navigate the challenges of WDW. I've finally reached a cumulative tipping point.

The citing of stats is curious given WDW's secrecy. Even if WDW's $ is up, it isn't enough information. Maybe WDW went up 3% because they increased advertising 40%. Maybe WDW went up because folks were excited to ride Escape from Gringotts.

Many WDW guests visit once a year or less. Over 40years, WDW fostered a strong legacy. Guest goodwill is not going to dry up overnight. What I fear is that a place I love is going to realize their folly too late, when the collective has decided WDW no longer delivers a premium product.

 

[Shaden]

Part of me wonders if hopper sales are down with the introduction of FP+ since they are requiring purchase of hopper (or water park) option to get free dining this year.

I wondered the same, or if this is a way to just dig out some of the discount and return that revenue while still getting the usual people to book their FD packages in the Fall.

 

[mom2rtk]

I wondered the same, or if this is a way to just dig out some of the discount and return that revenue while still getting the usual people to book their FD packages in the Fall.

It could actually be both.

 

[ArwenMarie]

I wonder why a company that claims an 85% occupancy rate offers free dining at all! I think most resorts that were enjoying this kind of popularity would raise their rates and eliminate all incentives.

They can't sell the rooms for much of the year at their rack rates. They run room discounts for so much of the year now, it's become part of their pricing strategy, thinking you are getting a deal.

I would rather they just lowered the rack rates and stop with the discount shenanigans, especially now that they have eliminated the option of changing dates on room reservations.

 

[ServerisBusy]

I wonder why a company that claims an 85% occupancy rate offers free dining at all! I think most resorts that were enjoying this kind of popularity would raise their rates and eliminate all incentives.

Because they are smart. Very, very smart. How smart? They only look at the numbers.

A snack, a quick serve, and a table serve each day. What do you think the food cost really is for a family of four? Not the menu prices, but the actual cost to Disney for those gourmet meals and snacks?

My bet is it's cheaper to give away stale pretzels (roughly 30 cents each from Sysco), mass-produced burger patties (45 cents), and pasta (you get the idea) than it is to discount a room 20%.

 

[Asellus]

I noticed the required hoppers...wondering if they are doing it to get people into AK and HS?

Also didn't they include POR and POFQ? I thought they usually don't include those....bookings for September must be way down.

 

[Bullseye]

 

[Astridia]

....bookings for September must be way down

Agreed. But the next question is Why?

 

[cakebaker]

I wonder why a company that claims an 85% occupancy rate offers free dining at all! I think most resorts that were enjoying this kind of popularity would raise their rates and eliminate all incentives.

Personally, I despise free dining and will never use that offer. Savings wise, I think it's a no win for the consumer. But people love "free". The absolute only way it makes any sense is to book values- anything more than that and a straight up discount is almost always better. And it costs Disney much less to give the paltry meal plan that values get vs a decent percentage discount. It's brilliant marketing. You stay on site, you eat on site- are you going to leave during your days at Disney when you're tied to your meals there? Probably not.

They've been giving discounts for years, nothing new here. Look at their rack rates. A 25% right off the top discount sounds great- but try to see past the "discount" at the bottom line. It's smart marketing. People want a discount and would rather get a 25% discount on a $200 room, than pay $150 rack rate. Don't blame Disney for knowing that and using it to their advantage.



Not every move Disney makes is a sign of impending doom.

Last year's AP discount included memory maker. This year, while the discount was just as good ,it didn't. Does that mean Disney is doing so well they didn't have to offer more? I will say, we had more trouble finding a discount that would apply to the resort we wanted than we have in years. While the offers are there, they were very limited as to which resorts and what type room. If anything, it would appear to us, the offers are getting tougher to come by.

I'm all for dropping discounts and tricks and give straight up pricing. But consumers like a bargain- whether it really is one or not.

 

[cakebaker]

Also didn't they include POR and POFQ? I thought they usually don't include those....bookings for September must be way down.

No, actually they didn't from what I read. So your premise based on that is incorrect.

Exclusions:

All-Star Movies, Bay Lake Tower, Port Orleans Resort Riverside (except the first set of dates), Port Orleans Resort French Quarter, Fort Wilderness campsites, Grand Villas at all resorts (3-bedroom Disney Vacation Club rooms), Art of Animation Little Mermaid Rooms, and the Villas at Disney’s Grand Floridian Resort, are all not eligible for Free Dining.

I noticed the required hoppers...wondering if they are doing it to get people into AK and HS?

Also not accurate- they're requiring park hopper OR water parks n more feature.

Perhaps this is part of their reducing the offers. It certainly makes it even less of a discount. So rather than seeing it as they're desperate to sell park hopper or the water parks- perhaps they're reducing the incentives- because their bookings are so high.

 

[Disneychick75]

If Disney's idea with FP+ is to get guests to stay longer, they've failed with us. We used to go to WDW a few times a year and each trip was at least 7 nights. We've cut that to 4 nights and added 2 nights to the Universal portion of our trips. It's because Disney trips have become more work with less satisfaction. In a day with the old FP system, we could ride everything by noon or a little after. Now, we spend more hours to ride less-- not worth it. We probably would cut out Disney all together but we have a toddler grandson. We used to love WDW so much.
We save the Universal part of our trips till the end because we feel relaxed and like we've been on vacation after an onsite Uni stay.

 

[Asellus]

I'm looking at September primarily. So it's just POR that's new...but this is still a new thing along with the required hopper purchase.

You could be right that they are just reducing the discount and trying to get more money out of people.

 

[mom2rtk]

And they don't always release the late fall offer this early either.

So much for their "THIS Is the year we're stopping the discounts" pledge.

 

[cakebaker]

And they don't always release the late fall offer this early either.

So much for their "THIS Is the year we're stopping the discounts" pledge.

I must've missed that announcement.

But as I said, we noticed a marked decrease in the availability of spring, summer and AP discount rates. We've have to set up a split stay just to get them to work. That's the first time this has happened to us since discounts started many years ago.

 

[cakebaker]

I'm looking at September primarily. So it's just POR that's new...but this is still a new thing along with the required hopper purchase.

You could be right that they are just reducing the discount and trying to get more money out of people.

Again, it's not a required hopper purchase- it's hopper or water parks n more.