FP crackdowns???

[dcherry]

Okay...then perhaps it's time for Disney to change the wording on the FP...to something a bit less ambiguous.
I have no problem with those who use it after the stated window. I just have to wonder why the heck Disney continues to keep the wording they have now. Why not just make the FP good for all day?
I know...it's probably because this way the rule followers will continue to go at the stated return times, allowing less build up in the FP line at other times.
Just wish they made a policy and stuck to it. Why put the wording there if they don't mean it.

I think you answered your own question. Why fix something that isn't "broke?" As far as I can see, in my experience, the system works. Lots of people will go during their alloted time, some will go after, some not at all and still others will stand in the stand-by line by which the FP system seems to flow just fine.

 

[nutty4wdw]

there are two major problems that made this topic confusing:

1--the CM's at WDW are inconsistent with their policy. sometimes you can get in after the window and at times especially during high attendance you may be turned away

2--people such as TGM advise guests to collect as many FP's as you can and use them later due to this inconsistent policy. in addition the unofficial guide also mentions that WDW is inconsistent with the policy

so as one poster already said you can try to go after your window but be prepared for this inconsistency. and as others have said it does defeat the purpose of spreading out the crowd.

until disney enforces a strict policy anything goes. some people will abide by the time limit while others will take the chance.

 

[jmclester]

Okay...then perhaps it's time for Disney to change the wording on the FP...to something a bit less ambiguous.
I have no problem with those who use it after the stated window. I just have to wonder why the heck Disney continues to keep the wording they have now. Why not just make the FP good for all day?
I know...it's probably because this way the rule followers will continue to go at the stated return times, allowing less build up in the FP line at other times.
Just wish they made a policy and stuck to it. Why put the wording there if they don't mean it.

I agree totally. There are those that think that the FP line is not affected by those who use FP's late. That is probably true right now b/c so few seem to suppose that it is allowed. But what if a large number of guests collected FP's to Space Mt thruought the day and then suddenly tried to redeem them right after the fireworks or a parade. Would this not affect the FP line? How fair is that for a guest who is there during his or her window to have 500 folks in front of him or her who have FP's that have "expired" (guess I'd better be careful with that term)?

As one poster said, there are those 5-10% who have inside info (which is not very inside now) that are going to plan their day around collecting FP's and returning after the window. Until the wording on the front of the ticket is changed I'll be in the 90-95% who will ride in the window.

I vote for a turnstile and bar coding machine. That would save a ton of CM labor bucks too! And it's sooooo entertaining to see folks argue with machines!

 

[Cool-Beans]

On the last tour I took, the tour guide let everyone stop at the EE FP machines to get one. She said that if anyone was concerned that we'd still be on the tour through the FP window, not to worry.

She then announced that you can use the thing all day long. Said she was telling us a secret that most folks didn't know.

This won't be enough for some folks, though. The fact that Disney announces it is okay to use it late will not convince them. Nothing will. Hookairs.

I will continue to return late. If someone has a problem with it, that's just too bad for them. I don't give an old owl's hoot who likes it and who doesn't.

 

[Sleeping Becca]

Were you the ones who all wanted to sit in the front row as well? lol

Yes! That was us! We also refuse to move all the way down in theater attractions.

 

[Sleeping Becca]

Disney's policy is to accept FP til the end of the day it was issued. It is not expired and it is not late until park closing of that day. Period.

Policy? Gee, that means it's written somewhere and this issue is settled!

Until Disney changes the wording on the front of the ticket to "RETURN AFTER X" from "RETURN BETWEEN X and Y", I'll be in the ranks of those who are running across the park to hit the FP line within the window. And that's not affecting the FP line either.

[/QUOTE]

Most folks do use it within the window and that is great but some folks choose not to use it in the window and that is OK too.

I completely understand why many do not think that it is OK to use the FP outside of the window, I felt the same way, until I heard from CMs on the board that it was OK. Then I tried it for myself and never got a second look.

If you feel you should use it in the window, then do so.

As far as using late FP being a "secret that nobody knows" that is still the case. DISers are a tiny portion of WDW guests, a drop in the Disney bucket. Heck!,many guests have no idea that FP is free. I don't think you will see throngs of late FPs clogging up lines anytime soon. Late FP is practically common knowledge over at DL, and yet no bottlenecks over there. So even if the knowledge is widespread, I don't think that it has an affect on the lines, that is why it is allowed.

 

[*disgal*]

Please Disney stop allowing

late fast passes

I believe Disney has answered the question. It's been stated here that it is in their operations manuals that they will allow it.

Ofcourse, I have NO idea how they found that out. Could we have a hint please??

 

[goofy4tink]

On the last tour I took, the tour guide let everyone stop at the EE FP machines to get one. She said that if anyone was concerned that we'd still be on the tour through the FP window, not to worry.

She then announced that you can use the thing all day long. Said she was telling us a secret that most folks didn't know.

This won't be enough for some folks, though. The fact that Disney announces it is okay to use it late will not convince them. Nothing will. Hookairs.

I will continue to return late. If someone has a problem with it, that's just too bad for them. I don't give an old owl's hoot who likes it and who doesn't.

Nope, I don't care what anyone does. I tend to get tired of the same old, same old arguments. Disney 'says' one thing, but acts in a different manner. I hate ambiguity...hate it when something is stated but it can be ignored.
Either stick to what is written or change the wording. Of course, as I said earlier...perhaps that stated return time is keeping a lot of 'innocents' in line, so that the minority can use FP however they wish.

So, here, out in the open...I say....in Sept, I plan to ignore the return time that is stated on my FP, and go and ride when it is convenient for me, not when a piece of paper states I should return. I'm headed to the 'dark side'..now, if I get back and I have had any issues with CMs enforcing the stated return times....well, well....I don't know, just well!

 

[dizprincess717]

The FP was always a huge concern of mine when I worked there. I mean, almost everyone at Splash would allow Guests to ride when the time window was expired. Since CMs do this, it totally makes the time window irrelevant. Some people at Splash (mind you this was over 2 years ago, now) would constantly remind Guests getting their FPs that they had to come back in the time window.

But, for example, if I was at the FP entrance and a family came up, looking totally worn out from a hike over from Tomorrowland, their time window was expired, but they had to leave the park for the night for ADRs at 'Ohana, sure I'd let them through.

What really strikes me as odd is that CMs now seem to throw the time window out the, well... window, but yet they allow NO ONE through the FP/Stand-By merge point of they don't have FPs. It's such a touchy subject. In the end, I know CMs just want to see Guests happy, but sometimes SOME Guests just get out of control. The whole "This is Disney World, I should be able to do whatever I want" thing... Luckily I didn't encounter too many Guests like that, but there are some who don't want to follow policy.

Unfortunately, now it may cause a huge commotion for all of those who followed the time window rule.

 

[Sleeping Becca]

The important ? Dizprincess717.

How were you trained? What instructions were you given regarding FP return times, when you worked the FP return entrance?

 

[TPCShauna]

Ofcourse, I have NO idea how they found that out. Could we have a hint please??

My BIL worked at DL and read my DH excerpts from the ops guides for Indy and SM.

 

[*disgal*]

My BIL worked at DL and read my DH excerpts from the ops guides for Indy and SM.

OOOOOOOooooooooohhhhhh. Gotcha.

Well, I think I've helped beat this one to death...so, good luck everyone with your FP's. thanks, Robo for all the laughs.

If WDW ever changes the way they do them, I'll adapt......just like I've adapted with all the other changes since the first time I went there in 1977.

Happy park touring everyone!!

 

[jmclester]

My BIL worked at DL and read my DH excerpts from the ops guides for Indy and SM.

Oh, well, that clears everything up then.

 

[PrincessTiffany]

Disney's policy is to accept FP til the end of the day it was issued. It is not expired and it is not late until park closing of that day. Period.

Policy? Gee, that means it's written somewhere and this issue is settled!

Until Disney changes the wording on the front of the ticket to "RETURN AFTER X" from "RETURN BETWEEN X and Y", I'll be in the ranks of those who are running across the park to hit the FP line within the window. And that's not affecting the FP line either.[/QUOTE]

Knox, The Canadian Guy Moderater, posted this on another Fastpass thread. It is an excerpt from the original FastPass Patent (you can google FastPass patent and get the entire legal patent filing application).

(Quote)As described above, in one or more embodiments of the system and method a customer is prevented from obtaining more than one entitlement or pass for accessing an attraction at a single time. In another arrangement, some customers may be permitted to obtain multiple passes. In one embodiment, the system may be arranged to permit customers to obtain multiple passes at some times and not at others. For example, if the wait time for accessing one or two attractions is particularly long (whether by the first or second queue 24,26) the system may be arranged to permit customers to obtain passes for different attractions so that the customer avoids the need to access one attraction before obtaining a pass for accessing another attraction. (End Quote Patent)

(Quote: Knox) The ability to hold multiple passes was foreseen in the original patent.. as well as a RIDICULOUS number of other scenarios .. literally everything you can imagine they have thought of..

And for those really get off on this stuff.. the FASTPASS patents I read both make reference to a mythical descriptor called "CLOSE_TIME" .. and what happens at close time?

No further passes are generated for the current day, current day passes are no longer valid and system abuse data is purged for that day.

Long story short, I think that the bar codes you are starting to see on FP's will be used to weed out the day-over-day abuse.. but I really doubt the intra-day 'use it anytime' philosophy will change. It works really well for the most part, sole exceptions being on the busiest of the busiest days..

And I don't think there's a FastPass system invented yet that will make a themepark at 98% of capacity, feel like it's at 23% of capacity. That's life. (End Quote: Knox)

 

[TPCShauna]

Not sure where the snarkiness is coming from with these last two comments but I don't know where you get more confirmed that direct quotes from Ops. guides.

Also, Brian Noble posted earlier on this thread that he has personally read Ops. guides that state that FPs can be taken after their expiration time.

Whatever way you choose to use your FPs is fine. I'm done *discussing* this dead horse. If someone thinks they are special because they "follow the rules" on the FP and kill themselves to use it during their special window, then so be it. I will continue to tour the parks the way that FPs allow me to through Disney's existing policy. This argument will have more merit when Disney does finally change that policy. Maybe this discussion will make more sense then, though I doubt it.

Enjoy your trips!

 

[jmclester]

I read an article on wdwinfo.com about how they are cracking down on counterfit FPs....of course this is a good thing but it also said something about how they are checking for expired FPs- not only the date, but the time and telling people to hit the standby line.

Last I heard about a month ago, FPs could be used late but on the same day. Anybody have any current info, like from last week about this? I have always used our FPs on time, but having read that you can save them up, we were gonna do another strategy this time around. I would hate to have 4 FPs and be told that they are not good b/c they are late.

So are they now enforcing the rules for the times of FPs or not?

Unsubscribing now. asmit4, enjoy your trip and I'll see you in September!!

 

[CanadianGuy]

I always try to post a copy of this in these threads. This is from a DIS poster with a pretty good connection to someone who really oughta know the true corporate answer. It does speak to the idea of "original intent" quite nicely and in a pretty authoritative way.

Add to this - the FastPass patent application makes reference to an iteration of the invention that is not so strict on the return time. Clearly they envisioned this type of implementation from the beginning.

it does speak to the idea of "original intent" quite nicely and in a pretty authoritative way.

WOW
This just always seems to rear it's ugly head. Now we have people wanting the "rules" enforced. Where do I start??? I always try to respond to these posts because I do feel like I have some worthwhile info that comes from actual Disney management (see below). First of all, if you don't believe you should use the FP's past the time, then don't. The fact is this: If I choose to not ride during the 2 hour window, it only means that someone else will fill my magical spot on the ride (someone from the standby line). If I did enter during the 2 hr time, that same person (theoretically) will ride AFTER me. You see, when I use my FP does not affect 1)the number of people in the park, or 2)the number of people who choose to ride a certain ride. This is not a rationalization, it is just basic theme park logistics. FP's do not expire (on that day, of course) and I know that for a fact.

My cousin, Scott Bowden works in Anaheim as a Senior Vice President in the Department of Planning, Revenue Management and Strategic Pricing (how would you like that on your business card?) We have spoken so many times on this subject that many times when I call him, the first thing he says is "Wassup, Fastpasses don't expire"

Remember, FP's are not intended to move you to the front of the line, they are to allow you to spend your waiting time somewhere else (like buying food or merchandise). Disney is a business and people can not spend their money in line. FP is a win-win idea that reduces your standing in line time. When you use it does not affect the flow of the ride or the dynamics of the wait for ANYONE else. Now, there is one more thing. When we adopted our child from China 2 years ago, one of the other fathers in our travel group works for the company in Buffalo that (among other things) worked with Disney on the design and implementation of the fastpass. Trust me when I say that the idea was not to reduce your wait time, but to reduce your "non-buying" time in the parks. It is not an accident that the Fastpass does not specifically prohibit late arrivals. In the original patent for the fastpass (and machine), there is a specific statement that details this "late" use. It is not only OK, it has zero bearing on the flow of the park or the wait times for anyone. Yes, you could argue that if everyone held their fastpass for 1 hour then flooded the ride, there may be some fluctuations in wait times, but that is simply not realistic. Additionally, if everyone did that, many more standby riders than normal would get to ride earlier. Remember, how or when you use your FP does not affect the number of people in the park or how many people ride the ride.

Fastpasses DO NOT expire. If a castmember tells you otherwise, politely ask them to speak with a supervisor - you are not asking for a favor, you are asking for something that is specifically allowed under the fastpass.

Fastpasses DO NOT expire.

Please everyone, stay nice - this is all about vacation stuff after all.

To Sum Up: Fastpasses are worded the way they are worded to give Disney an out when the crowds surpass a certain level. Truthfully, for 44 weeks a year, it's just not ever gonna be a logistical issue whether you use a FP late or not.

Now, can we get back to the topic of the thread.. which was uh.. (looking at notes scribbled on hand) the closing of "Food Rocks" ?

No wait .. wrong crib notes.. oh yes, Fastpass Crackdowns....

 

[ScarletFire]

My family ignores the FP return time. In fact, DH and I collect FP's to give to our kids in the evening. If we're in a park, we never miss an opportunity to get a FP. If we're not returning to the park, we give the FP's to people getting off the bus.

I am curious to know it anyone tried using a FP from a previous date. I've not read 12 pages of posts but I'm assuming this is what the "crackdown" is about.

 

[goofy4tink]

I always try to post a copy of this in these threads. This is from a DIS poster with a pretty good connection to someone who really oughta know the true corporate answer. It does speak to the idea of "original intent" quite nicely and in a pretty authoritative way.

Add to this - the FastPass patent application makes reference to an iteration of the invention that is not so strict on the return time. Clearly they envisioned this type of implementation from the beginning.

it does speak to the idea of "original intent" quite nicely and in a pretty authoritative way.



To Sum Up: Fastpasses are worded the way they are worded to give Disney an out when the crowds surpass a certain level. Truthfully, for 44 weeks a year, it's just not ever gonna be a logistical issue whether you use a FP late or not.

Now, can we get back to the topic of the thread.. which was uh.. (looking at notes scribbled on hand) the closing of "Food Rocks" ?

No wait .. wrong crib notes.. oh yes, Fastpass Crackdowns....

Dang....soooo, I'm 'not' going to the dark side??? I so wanted to be a rule breaker, just this once.

 

[Sleeping Becca]

My family ignores the FP return time. In fact, DH and I collect FP's to give to our kids in the evening. If we're in a park, we never miss an opportunity to get a FP. If we're not returning to the park, we give the FP's to people getting off the bus.

I am curious to know it anyone tried using a FP from a previous date. I've not read 12 pages of posts but I'm assuming this is what the "crackdown" is about.

Yes, that is what the crackdown is about. Due to the selling of FP on ebay, CMs are now being more dilligent about checking the date in additition to the return time.

So bottom line....don't use yesterday's FP today

You can still use your FP after the return window.