Fort Wildness Lodge DVC Expansion

[kittyab]

Do you think this expansion will mean there will be more DVC points to purchase soon?

 

[tjkraz]

Not all that soon...probably not until late-2017 or early-2018.

Yes, there should be more points to purchase. But it remains to be seen how everything will work together. Signs point toward there actually being a second timeshare association at the Wilderness Lodge. It will probably have a different contract end date (DVC would never sell more VWL points "new" with only 25 years of ownership remaining.) But there may also be different point charts, different dues and we have no idea what sort of crossover rights may exist to book different VWL rooms at 11 months vs. 7 months.

In other words, there are a lot of questions that need to be clarified before anyone should even consider buying. Personally I'd even be wary of buying existing VWL points resale given the uncertainties of how new construction may impact the older rooms.

 

[Dean]

Do you think this expansion will mean there will be more DVC points to purchase soon?

All indications are this will be a separate resort that is not connected in any way other than physical proximity to the current VWL if that affects your thought/questions.

 

[MoreTravels]

It will be very confusing.

There is already "Fort Wilderness" "Wilderness Lodge" and "Villas Wilderness" now they are going to come up something like "Cabin Wilderness" or "Wilderness Bungalow" all keeping the same theme... people may think it's the same thing. I used to think Fort Wilderness and Wilderness Lodge are the same place, just one has a camp and the other has hotel... but they are practically independent, with their own bus stops / routes, etc.

If they do not allow the new owner from VWL2 to book VWL1 at 11 months, then it might affect their sale. Potential buyers may think, I am paying full price and you allow me to book half a resort? If they allow the VWL1 and VWL2 merging by offering an upgrade, then VWL1 resale price will go from current $90 to $150 overnight. But how can they force everyone to upgrade?


I think the owners of VWL1 are watching very carefully. I think there may be a class action lawsuit if DVC takes away VWL1 land or facilities to make VWL2 without any compensation to VWL1 owners.

 

[Granny]

It will be very confusing.

There is already "Fort Wilderness" "Wilderness Lodge" and "Villas Wilderness" now they are going to come up something like "Cabin Wilderness" or "Wilderness Bungalow" all keeping the same theme... people may think it's the same thing. I used to think Fort Wilderness and Wilderness Lodge are the same place, just one has a camp and the other has hotel... but they are practically independent, with their own bus stops / routes, etc.

If they do not allow the new owner from VWL2 to book VWL1 at 11 months, then it might affect their sale. Potential buyers may think, I am paying full price and you allow me to book half a resort? If they allow the VWL1 and VWL2 merging by offering an upgrade, then VWL1 resale price will go from current $90 to $150 overnight. But how can they force everyone to upgrade?


I think the owners of VWL1 are watching very carefully. I think there may be a class action lawsuit if DVC takes away VWL1 land or facilities to make VWL2 without any compensation to VWL1 owners.

It may be somewhat confusing, but the new resort will probably be named something like Wilderness Lodge Cabins & Villas or something like that. Or maybe a new name like they did with Kidani. And according to Disney's press release, it is evident that it will be a completely separate DVC resort from the existing VWL, and it will include WL room conversions to DVC. I am a VWL owner and I don't think there is any basis for a complaint...the land and facilities being built aren't "owned" by VWL. And in fact they are expanding the facilities with a larger pool and some other buildings which appear to include another food service option. That doesn't make me happy they are doing this, but I don't see that Disney has done anything to diminish our ownership other than mess with the landscaping and theming surrounding the resort.

I'm sure they will sell VWL2 based on the cabins and new amenities. I don't think VWL booking privileges would really help sell the new resort anyway. I'd look for things like better room layouts (1BRs that can actually fit a sleeper chair for instance) and things like that to help sell the new resort.

 

[Dean]

It will be very confusing.

There is already "Fort Wilderness" "Wilderness Lodge" and "Villas Wilderness" now they are going to come up something like "Cabin Wilderness" or "Wilderness Bungalow" all keeping the same theme... people may think it's the same thing. I used to think Fort Wilderness and Wilderness Lodge are the same place, just one has a camp and the other has hotel... but they are practically independent, with their own bus stops / routes, etc.

If they do not allow the new owner from VWL2 to book VWL1 at 11 months, then it might affect their sale. Potential buyers may think, I am paying full price and you allow me to book half a resort? If they allow the VWL1 and VWL2 merging by offering an upgrade, then VWL1 resale price will go from current $90 to $150 overnight. But how can they force everyone to upgrade?


I think the owners of VWL1 are watching very carefully. I think there may be a class action lawsuit if DVC takes away VWL1 land or facilities to make VWL2 without any compensation to VWL1 owners.

I think Disney/DVD is good and protecting themselves. I'm sure there will be come confusion but it should be minimal. Legally they only have 2 options within DVC. Either to make it part of VWL itself, which causes a lot of other issues esp related to the RTU, or to make it separate. If it's separate, it has to be completely separate with no access by current VWL points except as established in the multi site POS which is currently the 7 month window. I doubt it'll have much impact on sales though I'm sure there will be a few that say it affected their decision. There will be many angles a salesperson can use to sell, even to current owners there. They could have undergone an extension at VWL and combined them but this is problematic for other reasons as OKW has proven. It may be better for current owners not to have it combined. Less competition for lower point villas, increased amenities without additional costs, possibly even some Maint Fee savings. And also protection from a THV type reallocation.

As for forcing the extension, there are several things they could do. At OKW they did it as an extra cost and stated they'd issue a special assessment against anyone who didn't either pay to extend or sign over their rights. I haven't heard of any SA and I don't feel they have the power to do a SA for this reason under the POS but that's how it went down. There are other options but there are limitations. As I read the POS for other resorts and assuming VWL is worded the same, they can't extend a given "unit" or ownership but rather have to extend the entire resort. For OKW they did this but divided up ownership for before/after the original RTU date. For VWL they'd have had to extend then add the new resort portion. I don't think they have time to do it that way, it would have taken more time between starting the process with members and when the new resort will be declared. So yes they can force others to upgrade but they can't truly force them to pay for the upgrade but they could "give them an offer they can't refuse".

 

[freediverdude]

So now this one site that shares amenities will have 3 separate resorts on it? With similar names. With another close by that also has wilderness in the name, lol. I think for the average visitor yes this is going to be confusing. Maybe they should rename the Wilderness Lodge area to something like Wilderness Village, that can then encompass multiple lodgings like the lodge, villas, outer lodge villas, and cabins. Otherwise the main resort sign would have to have several names on it.

 

[Dean]

So now this one site that shares amenities will have 3 separate resorts on it? With similar names. With another close by that also has wilderness in the name, lol. I think for the average visitor yes this is going to be confusing. Maybe they should rename the Wilderness Lodge area to something like Wilderness Village, that can then encompass multiple lodgings like the lodge, villas, outer lodge villas, and cabins. Otherwise the main resort sign would have to have several names on it.

If they're all under the WL and check in is the same, no need for additional signs. This is not uncommon in the timeshare world and in some cases, check in may be off site for some resorts or even portions of a given resort.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

So now this one site that shares amenities will have 3 separate resorts on it? With similar names. With another close by that also has wilderness in the name, lol. I think for the average visitor yes this is going to be confusing. Maybe they should rename the Wilderness Lodge area to something like Wilderness Village, that can then encompass multiple lodgings like the lodge, villas, outer lodge villas, and cabins. Otherwise the main resort sign would have to have several names on it.

YC, BC and BCV all share amenities and are basically on the same site with similar names. It will be fine.

 

[wdrl]

Some people will get confused about names no matter what. Years ago, I was on a Disney bus going to the Magic Kingdom and overheard a parent tell his kids that they were going to Disneyland. How many rimes do we see posts from people saying they are renting points to stay at Animal Kingdom Lodge. Even the title of this thread is in error; when I first saw it I thought someone was bringing back the old River Country rumors.

Even if Disney renamed Wilderness Lodge to something else, there will be many people who won't adjust to the new name. How many people still refer to Hollywood Studios as "MGM Studios", a name that has been dead and buried for many years?

But, regardless of the confusion, everything seems to work out in the end. As _auroraborealis_ posted, "It will be fine."

 

[tjkraz]

People also thought Jambo vs. Kidani would be confusing. It isn't.

The DVC reservation website will have the two VWL components uniquely identified. Guests will still use the same check-in facilities upon arrival.

 

[freediverdude]

I don't see how there won't be confusion when there will be 4 separate resorts all with the main word Wilderness in it.

 

[tjkraz]

I don't see how there won't be confusion when there will be 4 separate resorts all with the main word Wilderness in it.

Confusion for whom?

There will only be 2 destinations bookable by DVC members. They will be separately identified on the website (just like Jambo / Kidani.) Check-ins will be at the same front desk.

 

[freediverdude]

Ok last post for the pixie dusters. There will 4 separate resorts, all bookable on cash, all with the name Wilderness in them, with one even having a completely separate check-in and parking lot. Good luck telling the typical one time cash guest which one they are checking into.

 

[tjkraz]

Ok last post for the pixie dusters. There will 4 separate resorts, all bookable on cash, all with the name Wilderness in them, with one even having a completely separate check-in and parking lot. Good luck telling the typical one time cash guest which one they are checking into.

But there are still only two physical destinations.

If people are arriving via DME, Cast Members (including bus drivers) will help route guests to the proper destination. In all likelihood, the same DME bus will service both facilities.

If people are arriving via car, yes, I'm sure there are daily occurrences of people going to the wrong location. But the guards out front are used to dealing with it. When a WL guest inadvertently goes to Ft. Wilderness, I'm sure the guards politely turn them around and give directions to the proper facility. 5 minutes later they're in the right place and all confusion is gone.

If Disney were adding another physical building with the word "Wilderness" in the name, I agree it would increase confusion. But this doesn't seem any more overwhelming than the situation that has been in place for the last 20 years. The new DVC expansion will almost certainly be a separate legal entity, but it's entirely possible that its public dba name will still be "Villas at Disney's Wilderness Lodge." There are plenty of condo and timeshare facilities consist of separate legal "Phases," all operating under the same public name.

 

[Dean]

Ok last post for the pixie dusters. There will 4 separate resorts, all bookable on cash, all with the name Wilderness in them, with one even having a completely separate check-in and parking lot. Good luck telling the typical one time cash guest which one they are checking into.

In many ways it's less than the THV situation with check in a different place. I'm sure there will be some but likely no more than there is currently. In the end it won't matter as the resort is being built and it will be sold, I don't think anyone expects the resort names to change or for the new resort not have have some of the name variations you're complaining about.

 

[Deb & Bill]

It will be very confusing.

There is already "Fort Wilderness" "Wilderness Lodge" and "Villas Wilderness" now they are going to come up something like "Cabin Wilderness" or "Wilderness Bungalow" all keeping the same theme... people may think it's the same thing. I used to think Fort Wilderness and Wilderness Lodge are the same place, just one has a camp and the other has hotel... but they are practically independent, with their own bus stops / routes, etc.

If they do not allow the new owner from VWL2 to book VWL1 at 11 months, then it might affect their sale. Potential buyers may think, I am paying full price and you allow me to book half a resort? If they allow the VWL1 and VWL2 merging by offering an upgrade, then VWL1 resale price will go from current $90 to $150 overnight. But how can they force everyone to upgrade?


I think the owners of VWL1 are watching very carefully. I think there may be a class action lawsuit if DVC takes away VWL1 land or facilities to make VWL2 without any compensation to VWL1 owners.

They aren't practically independent. They are totally independent. They are no different than Polynesian and Contemporary. Two separate resorts. The only thing they share is the word "Wilderness" in their names.

 

[Sammie]

Ok last post for the pixie dusters. There will 4 separate resorts, all bookable on cash, all with the name Wilderness in them, with one even having a completely separate check-in and parking lot. Good luck telling the typical one time cash guest which one they are checking into.

There are 3 All Star resorts, I think people can handle this. If not, not sure they will make it Orlando anyway without getting lost.

 

[freediverdude]

The All-Stars all have a different themes though, you go up and say I'm checking into Sports or Music. All this Wilderness stuff is just Wilderness with slightly different names. Two of them will now even have units called cabins, so which cabins are you in.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

The All-Stars all have a different themes though, you go up and say I'm checking into Sports or Music. All this Wilderness stuff is just Wilderness with slightly different names. Two of them will now even have units called cabins, so which cabins are you in.

We aren't 100% sure they'll call them cabins when put into service.