For those of you with a child in college

[leahjade]

and a lot of people will be upset to learn that foreign students pay almost nothing for their education here in the US. My daughter goes to a large expensive college and all the kids were talking about how much they pay, and all the foreign students pay almost nothing. The schools said they want diversity and recruit students from other countries. The thing is that many of the kids come from extremely wealthy backgrounds and still pay nothing. It doesn't seem fair but since it's a private school, they can do what they want.

 

[phragmipedium]

and a lot of people will be upset to learn that foreign students pay almost nothing for their education here in the US. My daughter goes to a large expensive college and all the kids were talking about how much they pay, and all the foreign students pay almost nothing. The schools said they want diversity and recruit students from other countries. The thing is that many of the kids come from extremely wealthy backgrounds and still pay nothing. It doesn't seem fair but since it's a private school, they can do what they want.

I think that must vary from college to college, and maybe by private/public. At the university I worked at (public), students from other countries were expected to pay the much more expensive non-resident tuition rate. We certainly didn't have the money, as a public school, to have any program where international students paid nothing in the name of diversity. The international students also had to go through quite a process for admission, including documenting sources from which they'd be able to afford that tuition expense prior to be admitted. Generally speaking they do not receive federal financial aid unless they are in the "eligible non-citizen category," and might have been offered only campus-based work study and any minimal scholarships they qualified for - not even Stafford and Parent loans. Many private lenders also will not lend to international students, so in my experience it was even more difficult for them to attend unless they were from relatively affluent families, because they basically needed to show up front that they could afford it without any aid (even loans, which are a form of financial aid).

There were a few international students who received fellowships as graduate students in certain programs, but by and large the average undergrad experienced what I described above - so I don't think it's free everywhere, at least.

 

[tzolkin]

I think you misunderstood me. I'm sure your free ride to college was based on your merit, otherwise you wouldn't have gotten those scholarships. Congratulations!

The scholarships were financial need based only. Our family income was approx 35K for a family of 6. My last year of college my parents made a little more, but there were 3 of us in college that year. I think my school and situation was fairly unique (not many schools offer aid packages like that-- that's why i decided to take them up on it).

I don't think I misunderstood you. You said that children who live off of welfare will get a free ride to college. I honestly do not believe that is the case. They would get the same $2000 or so in federal/state grant money that anyone with a relatively low family income would get and the rest would be up to them to figure out through scholarships, loans, and work just like everyone else. Maybe I am mistaken, but this is what I have seen among all students I have known.

 

[KCMiller]

See if there is a college nearby that offers free tuition to employee's children. Try and get a job there.

Maggie

That's what I did - I found out how many years I would have to be a full time employee at OSU to get a break on tuition for my kids, and started work in time for my oldest son to start college, and thank you Ohio State - it's only half off the tuition, but that's about $8000 a year they don't have to find (for the two of them - and one more still in high school). And I say 'they' because my children pay the balance of their tuition themselves. They've taken out loans, and we encourage them to apply for as many scholarships as they can. We pay for all the other costs, like insurance, cars, clothing, books, etc, but they are paying their own way through college. Not that we can't afford to help them, but my DH and I feel that they'll be better off in the long run if they earn their degrees themselves, with support from us.

(don't tell them, but the long term plan is to actually pay off their student loans for them - but they don't need to know that right now. Right now, they are earning their way, and we truly believe that this will help them become mature, self sufficient adults - time will tell, of course)

My husband and I make a bit more than the OP makes, but not much more, and the Expected Family Contribution for our family was laughable.

KC

 

[LoveBWVVBR]

In terms of your question about "bait and switch" - I want to clarify this for you, that it doesn't sound like that's what the school has done. If your EFC has skyrocketed, that has nothing to do with the school but rather the information you have input on the FAFSA. The FAFSA application determines your EFC. FAFSA submits this to the school, and they use the FAFSA information to determine your eligibility in their aid programs. It really doesn't sound like this particular situation classifies as bait and switch. You might have more legitimate concern if your EFC stayed exactly the same and your aid package changed, but even sometimes that happens - sometimes a school's level of funding stays the same, but more students qualify based on EFC for a program than in the prior year, so to spread the funds around they have to reduce the eligibility cutoff of EFCs for the program.

In the cases that I am talking about, nothing changed on the FAFSA in between the freshman and sophmore year. In one particularly eggregious case, the student's self-employed father became ill with cancer in between the student's freshman and sophmore year, had zero income, and the school STILL wouldn't consider this a change in circumstances. In that case, the student got a 22K aid package (16K in grants) in the freshman year, and a 6K aid package with 2K in grants for the sophmore year. Again, nothing changed on the FAFSA, and there was a huge loss of income and associated medical cost going on within the family. The mother went to the FA office at the school, and they refused to increase the aid package. They told her to take out PLUS loans.

I DO consider this a bait-and-switch, since the family would not have opted to have their son attend this particular college if they'd known that they would lose almost all of their financial aid in the sophmore year. The same thing happened to my sister, and to the children of other friends of my mother. These were all private colleges. I am always skeptical of freshman year financial aid offers as a result. While DH and I personally didn't have the experience of losing our financial aid with no change in income/assets, I've seen it happen enough times to know that this is something that a lot of private colleges do.

 

[phragmipedium]

In the cases that I am talking about, nothing changed on the FAFSA in between the freshman and sophmore year. In one particularly eggregious case, the student's self-employed father became ill with cancer in between the student's freshman and sophmore year, had zero income, and the school STILL wouldn't consider this a change in circumstances. In that case, the student got a 22K aid package (16K in grants) in the freshman year, and a 6K aid package with 2K in grants for the sophmore year. Again, nothing changed on the FAFSA, and there was a huge loss of income and associated medical cost going on within the family. The mother went to the FA office at the school, and they refused to increase the aid package. They told her to take out PLUS loans.

I DO consider this a bait-and-switch, since the family would not have opted to have their son attend this particular college if they'd known that they would lose almost all of their financial aid in the sophmore year. The same thing happened to my sister, and to the children of other friends of my mother. These were all private colleges. I am always skeptical of freshman year financial aid offers as a result. While DH and I personally didn't have the experience of losing our financial aid with no change in income/assets, I've seen it happen enough times to know that this is something that a lot of private colleges do.

I see - perhaps I misunderstood. I thought you said in your original post that the EFC skyrocketed after the freshman year and the aid package changed as a sophomore. If that were the case it would have been an issue of what had been reported on the FAFSA that was impacting the change in aid. I haven't worked in a private school, so I can't really speak to the phenomenon you're discussing if there is actually no change in EFC.

 

[feedthebirds]

mominwestlake-

My cousin's daughter will be attending Cal Lutheran next fall as a freshman. They are a family of 5. My cousin works part time and her dh makes about what yours does. She got a scholarship which reduced the tuition to about 1/3 of the yearly fees. It was suggested that my cousin not go back to work full time by a counselor for this first year. Her other daughter will start the year after next. The other daughter wants to go to Cal State. I'm curious what the counselor will advise my cousin to do then. If she goes back full time and doesn't get any aid, it would be full tuition for Cal Lutheran and CSU. That alone is so expensive, add in after school care for the younger one and all the extras such as taxes, wardrobe, gas and such as you said, which would make a full time job not worth it. For now she will stay put and cut back where she can. BTW the girls both have part time jobs also and are expected to contribute. I think student loans are definetly in their futures.

 

[MammaNicholas]

I work at a university. Why? Because with what I am capable of making in my profession, and what my dh is capable of making in his profession, we're just right there at lower middle class, making financial aid a major long shot for our two children. With me being employed at this university, my children (and myself if I so choose) will qualify for free tuition next year. Putting away what we can, when we can for books and stuff like that. And it's a good thing I like it here, my children are 6 & 2.

 

[LoveBWVVBR]

I see - perhaps I misunderstood. I thought you said in your original post that the EFC skyrocketed after the freshman year and the aid package changed as a sophomore. If that were the case it would have been an issue of what had been reported on the FAFSA that was impacting the change in aid. I haven't worked in a private school, so I can't really speak to the phenomenon you're discussing if there is actually no change in EFC.

This phenomenon seems to be exclusively the domain of private colleges from what I've seen. My friend who attends a public university gets pretty standard aid if I'm understanding your posts correctly. It doesn't change from year to year. She qualifies for a Pell grant (she's a young, single mom with a low income), and she qualifies for something else that makes it totally possible for her to attend her school with no loans

There is another question I want to ask you, actually! My friend may take more than 4 years to graduate. She did the first 2 at a community college, and not everything transferred over to her university. If that's the case, will she still be able to get the federal aid after the 4 years (total) are up? She says that she thinks so, but that she doesn't really know for sure.

 

[phragmipedium]

This phenomenon seems to be exclusively the domain of private colleges from what I've seen. My friend who attends a public university gets pretty standard aid if I'm understanding your posts correctly. It doesn't change from year to year. She qualifies for a Pell grant (she's a young, single mom with a low income), and she qualifies for something else that makes it totally possible for her to attend her school with no loans

There is another question I want to ask you, actually! My friend may take more than 4 years to graduate. She did the first 2 at a community college, and not everything transferred over to her university. If that's the case, will she still be able to get the federal aid after the 4 years (total) are up? She says that she thinks so, but that she doesn't really know for sure.

Federal aid isn't really looked at by the number of years - what they count is that they believe that you should be able to complete you degree within 150% of the time it *should* take to receive one. For example, at my school, we were on a quarter schedule and it required 180 credits to graduate. So, students at our school could receive federal aid until they had *attempted* taking 270 credits. An attempted credit does include transfer credits, whether they were completed and passed or not - a W for withdraw counted for an attempted credit and an F for fail counted too. If she's concerned that she could be close to that limit, she should talk to her office.

The other thing that counts is that there are federal loan limits. As long as she hasn't reached the Maximum Attempted Credit Limit, she can still receive grant aid, presuming she qualifies, until she finishes. But if she's receiving federal loans, there are limits in those programs too. If she contacts the aid office, she can determine what she's borrowed so far and how much she has left.

The loan limits are strict and there's no way around them - though she could receive private loans past that point if she applied and was approved, if that was the only way she could finish. The Maximum Attempted Credit Limit policy can generally be appealed through the office, if the student believes they have adequate reasons that they were unable to complete their degree in that time. These appeals went before a committee at our school, and we were quite strict, because the regulations don't really leave much room for "well, I changed my major," or "well, I just decided I wanted to go to another school," but I think it varies by school - our approvals were more rare and usually for petitions along the lines of, "I was nearly finished with my degree and the school closed; there is not a similar degree here that my credits applied to," or "I have only one term left, I had a catastrophic event during my sophomore/whatever year when my parent died, and it took me some time to get back on track," or "I was diagnosed my junior year with xyz mental or physical illness that was preventing me from being successful; see attached treatment plan and statement from doctor that this should no longer affect my ability to succeed." A Maximum Attempted Credit Limit approval is a professional judgment, so again it's a personal decision by an aid administrator or committee that they feel is documentable and justified.

 

[rheffelf]

If you want to approximate how a second income would possibly affect financial aid, why don't you plug some numbers into a financial aid calculator... Here is a link to one: http://www.finaid.org/calculators/quickefc.phtml

 

[StephMK]

I have a job in the admissions office at my school which is well known locally in the northeast, but not as much across the country and I know that they do take into account geography - to try to become more diverse. You still need to have the grades and whatnot but the geo certainly won't hurt when you're from further away. They also look at the # of kids applying from each specific high school and compare them. Different colleges may have different policies though.

Thanks, that exactly what I needed to know! She is currently a straight A student in 8th grade honors classes and very motivated about going to college. She will either go local or back to the East where she grew up. Some of the schools she likes are super competitive in NoVA so it's nice to know she might have a better shot as a kid from NE.

 

[LoveBWVVBR]

Federal aid isn't really looked at by the number of years - what they count is that they believe that you should be able to complete you degree within 150% of the time it *should* take to receive one. For example, at my school, we were on a quarter schedule and it required 180 credits to graduate. So, students at our school could receive federal aid until they had *attempted* taking 270 credits. An attempted credit does include transfer credits, whether they were completed and passed or not - a W for withdraw counted for an attempted credit and an F for fail counted too. If she's concerned that she could be close to that limit, she should talk to her office.

The other thing that counts is that there are federal loan limits. As long as she hasn't reached the Maximum Attempted Credit Limit, she can still receive grant aid, presuming she qualifies, until she finishes. But if she's receiving federal loans, there are limits in those programs too. If she contacts the aid office, she can determine what she's borrowed so far and how much she has left.

She actually hasn't had to take out any loans yet, so I think she's OK there. She could theoretically end up taking some time off from school, though, since she has recently given birth. She's finishing this semester, but she hasn't told me if she's definitely going back in the fall yet. I'd assume so, but it's possible that she will take some time off too. Does this count against the 150%, or is it strictly by credits? Thank you for all of this aid info. It is very educational!

 

[phragmipedium]

She actually hasn't had to take out any loans yet, so I think she's OK there. She could theoretically end up taking some time off from school, though, since she has recently given birth. She's finishing this semester, but she hasn't told me if she's definitely going back in the fall yet. I'd assume so, but it's possible that she will take some time off too. Does this count against the 150%, or is it strictly by credits? Thank you for all of this aid info. It is very educational!

The Maximum Attempted Credit Limit only counts for actual credits attempted, not how many years or terms have passed since the student started attending. Also, it doesn't matter if the student is receiving aid or not; as long as the attempted credits show on their record, they count toward the limit. So, it's perfectly fine if she wants to take some time off - she should just check with her school about whether there will be any re-enrollment procedure, and make sure to keep up with doing her FAFSA early each year and let her aid office know to cancel any aid she has during terms she plans not to attend. If she's not going in the fall but could go in the spring of next year, she should still do a FAFSA for 08-09. Encourage her not to try to go back before she's sure she's ready, because signing up for a full courseload and then failing or dropping those credits with a W for withdraw on her transcript *would* affect her number of attempted credits. You're very welcome for the help.

 

[mominwestlake]

Thanks for all the input here. Call me dumb but I guess I thought a college would find out your EFC and then the difference would be made up with $ that didn't have to be repaid. I thought that because people I know with older kids keep talking about these great college packages their kids are getting. I know some of the packages would include merit or sports scholarship $ but not all of these kids qualify for that. I know- silly me. So basically I know now that we won't qualify for need based grants. If we're lucky our kids might be offered scholarship money for their grades, test scores, or perhaps musical talent. Otherwise we are on our own with money saved or money borrowed. Does this sound right now?

As for me getting a job- high school teaching jobs are very hard to come by but I have 3 years to try to find one before my 1st child starts high school. Working at a college for reduced tuition sounds like an interesting idea but I wonder what I could do there that would pay as well as a public high school teaching job?

 

[LoveBWVVBR]

Thanks for all the input here. Call me dumb but I guess I thought a college would find out your EFC and then the difference would be made up with $ that didn't have to be repaid. I thought that because people I know with older kids keep talking about these great college packages their kids are getting. I know some of the packages would include merit or sports scholarship $ but not all of these kids qualify for that. I know- silly me. So basically I know now that we won't qualify for need based grants. If we're lucky our kids might be offered scholarship money for their grades, test scores, or perhaps musical talent. Otherwise we are on our own with money saved or money borrowed. Does this sound right now?

As for me getting a job- high school teaching jobs are very hard to come by but I have 3 years to try to find one before my 1st child starts high school. Working at a college for reduced tuition sounds like an interesting idea but I wonder what I could do there that would pay as well as a public high school teaching job?

I don't think that your assumption was dumb at all. I think that financial aid is basically a topic that is shrouded in mystery for most of us. I think that your current assumptions that you will probably be on your own with saved or borrowed $$ are probably correct.

As for finding a job as a high school teacher, I'm not sure where you are or what you teach, but in our state there are lots of jobs for "critical need" subjects (math and science, for sure, not sure what else). Maybe it won't be too hard to find a job

 

[phragmipedium]

Thanks for all the input here. Call me dumb but I guess I thought a college would find out your EFC and then the difference would be made up with $ that didn't have to be repaid. I thought that because people I know with older kids keep talking about these great college packages their kids are getting. I know some of the packages would include merit or sports scholarship $ but not all of these kids qualify for that. I know- silly me. So basically I know now that we won't qualify for need based grants. If we're lucky our kids might be offered scholarship money for their grades, test scores, or perhaps musical talent. Otherwise we are on our own with money saved or money borrowed. Does this sound right now?

As for me getting a job- high school teaching jobs are very hard to come by but I have 3 years to try to find one before my 1st child starts high school. Working at a college for reduced tuition sounds like an interesting idea but I wonder what I could do there that would pay as well as a public high school teaching job?

Yes, if your EFC is not actually a practical number in terms of - "Okay, this is what I'll have to write a check for." Your school just uses it to determine what kind of actual aid you will qualify for. They usually make "packaging groups" based on various factors - EFC, year in college, date of application. Various packaging groups qualify for various Depending on how expensive your school is, how many scholarships you have, what kind of funding the school has, and how they've decided to divvy-up their campus based grants, you may end up being responsible for more than your EFC, or less. It's just not something you can look at and think about in practical terms, and I wish that the FAFSA were clearer about that. Your EFC can be much lower than the cost of attendance at a particular school, but not low enough for grants - and you might still have to finance the whole thing with loans in an amount even higher than your EFC.

If you go to a private school, the lines may be more blurry, because they may have their own private grants, even if your EFC is not low enough for federal grants. It cannot hurt to have your FAFSA sent to any school your child might really want to go to (though you'll probably have to apply for admission to see an aid package). You never know what your aid will look like until you've applied.

 

[nowellsl]

One other thing, be sure to fill out your FAFSA as soon as possible. Most colleges only get a set amount of grant/scholarship money and it's given out first come first served. Once it's gone, it's gone. At least that's what I've been told!

 

[LoveBWVVBR]

Yes, if your EFC is not actually a practical number in terms of - "Okay, this is what I'll have to write a check for." Your school just uses it to determine what kind of actual aid you will qualify for. They usually make "packaging groups" based on various factors - EFC, year in college, date of application. Various packaging groups qualify for various Depending on how expensive your school is, how many scholarships you have, what kind of funding the school has, and how they've decided to divvy-up their campus based grants, you may end up being responsible for more than your EFC, or less. It's just not something you can look at and think about in practical terms, and I wish that the FAFSA were clearer about that. Your EFC can be much lower than the cost of attendance at a particular school, but not low enough for grants - and you might still have to finance the whole thing with loans in an amount even higher than your EFC.

If you go to a private school, the lines may be more blurry, because they may have their own private grants, even if your EFC is not low enough for federal grants. It cannot hurt to have your FAFSA sent to any school your child might really want to go to (though you'll probably have to apply for admission to see an aid package). You never know what your aid will look like until you've applied.

I was telling DH about what I've learned on here about what the EFC really means, and he was as surprised as I was. We both really thought that it was what the school thought that the family could afford to pay, not just the number that is spit out of a formula after determining how much aid that family qualifies for even if the school knows that the average family could never write an annual check for that amount. They shouldn't call it the EFC, because it's just confusing to people who know that they don't have 30K or whatever to put towards college every year. They should call it something else, like the "leftover amount that you'll have to find some way to pay for"!

 

[cruisnfamily]

I was telling DH about what I've learned on here about what the EFC really means, and he was as surprised as I was. We both really thought that it was what the school thought that the family could afford to pay, not just the number that is spit out of a formula after determining how much aid that family qualifies for even if the school knows that the average family could never write an annual check for that amount. They shouldn't call it the EFC, because it's just confusing to people who know that they don't have 30K or whatever to put towards college every year. They should call it something else, like the "leftover amount that you'll have to find some way to pay for"!

I agree!