For the First Time in Forever... I Did Not Enjoy My Vacation to Disney World

[DisDadDVC]

The counter to that is...of course...is IF you can change your plans...

Because it's not so easily done if you are trying to do/work around specific things.

Then you wait in line. Not sure what you are getting at here. I was questioning the PP who said that they "never use FP".

 

[larandtra1990]

I look at it this way. People dont like change and everyone will be critical when a large company makes changes that some feel may effect them in a negative manner. Then the mob mentality takes over and it becomes obvious that some people will just complain because they enjoy complaining. Everyone has had a bad moment or an experience they wish had been handled better. Even at WDW. But, the incessant whining and complaining about things you are not going to change and really are not as bad of a negative as you think they are, gets you nowhere. Simple solution for those who say this isnt worth the money, thats not worth it. Dont go. Do us all that favor and there will be plenty of fast passes for those of us who do go. The reality is there arent enough of the complainers who will quit going to impact Disney in any way whatsoever.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

I look at it this way. People dont like change and everyone will be critical when a large company makes changes that some feel may effect them in a negative manner. Then the mob mentality takes over and it becomes obvious that some people will just complain because they enjoy complaining. Everyone has had a bad moment or an experience they wish had been handled better. Even at WDW. But, the incessant whining and complaining about things you are not going to change and really are not as bad of a negative as you think they are, gets you nowhere. Simple solution for those who say this isnt worth the money, thats not worth it. Dont go. Do us all that favor and there will be plenty of fast passes for those of us who do go. The reality is there arent enough of the complainers who will quit going to impact Disney in any way whatsoever.

I agree. For those of us loving what has happened down there (and what is now on the way as well), its not a bit necessary to engage.

But its just nice to explain why its gotten soo much better for many of us.

Mostly the improved evening touring, and also the major drop in price for Deluxe resort stays-many by 80%.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Then you wait in line. Not sure what you are getting at here. I was questioning the PP who said that they "never use FP".

My point here is the same as always:

Disney has eroded some of their value by changing the experience for MANY...it's not really a debate, you don't have to agree...

But to shut it down and carry the bucket that somehow Disney has
Made it "better for all" is just not accurate.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I look at it this way. People dont like change and everyone will be critical when a large company makes changes that some feel may effect them in a negative manner. Then the mob mentality takes over and it becomes obvious that some people will just complain because they enjoy complaining. Everyone has had a bad moment or an experience they wish had been handled better. Even at WDW. But, the incessant whining and complaining about things you are not going to change and really are not as bad of a negative as you think they are, gets you nowhere. Simple solution for those who say this isnt worth the money, thats not worth it. Dont go. Do us all that favor and there will be plenty of fast passes for those of us who do go. The reality is there arent enough of the complainers who will quit going to impact Disney in any way whatsoever.

Typically I would agree with these sentiment...but i don't here.

For me...and I think many...feel that we are being swept down the stream WITH the mob that has allowed itself to be exploited pretty aggressively under the current management...

There are many reasons behind that...but it comes off as "anti-change"

 

[DisDadDVC]

My point here is the same as always:

Disney has eroded some of their value by changing the experience for MANY...it's not really a debate, you don't have to agree...

But to shut it down and carry the bucket that somehow Disney has
Made it "better for all" is just not accurate.

I never said FP+ was better for all. I said it was better for ME alone. And since the system is here to stay, having the option to use a FP is better than not having it. Not sure where your disagreement is. I guess we'll have to agree to agree then?

 

[Budshark]

The interesting part to me is it seems like the issue is all change as others have mentioned.

Growing up, there were no fast passes. So you know what we did? Stood in line. For 2+ hours sometimes for E-tickets. And we stood there, with no drinks, no running into quick rides, no anything. You just stood.

Then fastpass came around. And you had a choice. Stand there, or get a fastpass, wait and do other things, and then ride. But popular attractions started to be an issue (Radiator Springs, TSMM at DHS, 7DMT) - so you had to rope drop fast passes. And the real diehards rope dropped fast passes and then jumped in the line and did it twice. And late risers (like us) didn't get to get fast passes. So guess what we did? We stood in line. Usually for a lot less than 2 hours.

And now? 60 days out, there's the mad dash for fast passes. But lets be fair. Its a mad dash for the E-ticket rides/M&Gs. The regular stuff is still around. Its just the A&E, 7DMT, TSMMs of the world that you can't get. And you couldn't get them before unless you rope dropped. But now I get 3 fast passes instead of 1. And ridership is definitely UP on the mid-tier rides. So they've balanced the load.

So, we took the advantage from the early risers, and moved it to the planners for the "in demand" items. For everything else, they bumped you from 1 fastpass to 3. And, they haven't actually eliminated ANY standby lines, so thats still an option.

And the really interesting thing is this: If now there are longer lines on Pooh, and ISW, and Buzz due to the fastpass situation - where would those people be without those lines? Without fastpass encouraging people into those rides? Thats right... those people would be standing in line at the E-tickets. Supply and Demand. The supply hasn't gone up, the demand has, and yet... 7DMT has not experienced 2+ hour waits. Even TSMM seems to be down a tick. The lower and mid-tier rides are up, and the E-tickets are flat to down slightly. Seems like the system is working precisely as desired.

Chris

 

[Aruiz7]

My first trip ever can't wait !

 

[crazy4wdw]

the major drop in price for Deluxe resort stays-many by 80%.

 

[wilkeliza]

The interesting part to me is it seems like the issue is all change as others have mentioned.

Growing up, there were no fast passes. So you know what we did? Stood in line. For 2+ hours sometimes for E-tickets. And we stood there, with no drinks, no running into quick rides, no anything. You just stood.

On thing my group discussed in line was how when we were growing up (mid to late 90s) you would get in line at Six Flags and have 0 clue how long you were going to wait. Yes if you were a regular you kind of knew that if you were in this section you had an hour or two or if you were not in the covered section you were looking at 3 plus hours but you never really knew getting into line. You just did it and accepted your fate. That was with no smart phone to keep you busy so you just hung out while in line.

Now we know pretty accurately what we are getting into. I think it is crazy when people complain about a 30 minute wait for some of the less busy attractions. I haven't seen anything over 30-45 minutes for less than e-tickets when ever we go but of course we don't go in the "busy" season. I'm even willing to wait an hour plus if I have to just because I know what I'm getting into.

And before anyone says it is a make lemonade out of lemons argument, yes Disney is expensive but it is still a theme park. Part of theme parks is waiting in line. To me it just is a it is what it is thing.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

80% drop in price...huh?

 

[Budshark]

80% drop in price...huh?

Through the use of DVC.

<runs and hides>

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Through the use of DVC.

<runs and hides>

That's what I thought...and if you're trying to use the 1992 price compared to today...That's a complete misdirection

 

[wallrock]

Who said anything about reserving one 2 months in advance? You can book your fastpasses on the bus on the way to the park that day. Again, I agree that you don't NEED fastpasses to have a good trip. But I can't see how it could hurt to make some the day of.

Two different touring styles. The problem is I feel Disney will eventually push everyone (or as many as they can) to the one style of reserve and commit before you set foot in the door. And for some things booking two months in advance is the perceived sure-fire way of getting the attraction you want, again courtesy of Disney helping to 'feed the frenzy' via their rationing system. The more that adopt it the more frantic it will get. Check the strategies board and look at how many threads pop up about fastpasses. There's even a generic thread dedicated to fastpass strategies with nearly half a million views. That thread isn't being read for kicks.

 

[wallrock]

I never said FP+ was better for all. I said it was better for ME alone. And since the system is here to stay, having the option to use a FP is better than not having it. Not sure where your disagreement is. I guess we'll have to agree to agree then?

But you seem perplexed if people don't want to use fastpass. If it works for you then that's fine, but it doesn't work for everyone and I firmly believe that those who don't want to use it are feeling forced into it because of said frenzy. People with a lack of 'Disney insider' information - meaning those who don't travel there frequently - hear that if they don't jump in at the stroke of midnight a couple of months out they'll loose something. Clearly you visit frequently and have obtained a large amount of information to guide you through a system that's not designed to benefit the guest. Not everyone is in the same position.

Visiting a theme park shouldn't be more complex than doing taxes.

 

[Budshark]

Two different touring styles. The problem is I feel Disney will eventually push everyone (or as many as they can) to the one style of reserve and commit before you set foot in the door. And for some things booking two months in advance is the perceived sure-fire way of getting the attraction you want, again courtesy of Disney helping to 'feed the frenzy' via their rationing system. The more that adopt it the more frantic it will get. Check the strategies board and look at how many threads pop up about fastpasses. There's even a generic thread dedicated to fastpass strategies with nearly half a million views. That thread isn't being read for kicks.

But thats always existed.

There were tips and strategies for how to tour a park and get the "most" out of it for decades. It used to be mailers, then bulletin boards, then IRC, then Geocities pages, and now... its apps, and forums, and ad sponsored websites that benefit from creating the panic. People are just more aware, and in my opinion more afraid that someone else is getting a leg up on them. So they buy into the hype. Who really benefits from the sense that FP+ is a panic/stress inducing activity? The sites that provide planning and information. Disney doesn't benefit from it. Its the websites, the "planning sites", the forums that generate traffic... just sayin.

At its very surface, what Disney has done isn't "rationing" or limiting at all. What Disney did was develop a system that allows people to make decisions, and based on those decisions spend more time in the shops, on the street, in rides that create memories - and less time standing in line. Rationing is the exact OPPOSITE of what they have done. Rationing implies limiting a product. The whole point of fastpass is to expand a product. Are there a limited number of fast passes? Yes. Are the available slots in a line (fastpass and standby) less with fastpass+ than prior? No.

There is no one perfect way to do this. Using the same thought process and the tendency to give sound bites to things, Disney replaced "Wake up early and run" with "Stay up late and plan". Some like A, others like B. But, its splitting hairs. Why? Because it really ONLY affects about 5 experiences. 7DMT, Anna & Elsa, TSMM, Test Track, Soarin. Everything else you can pick up fast passes for day of or day before generally.

 

[DisDadDVC]

But you seem perplexed if people don't want to use fastpass. If it works for you then that's fine, but it doesn't work for everyone and I firmly believe that those who don't want to use it are feeling forced into it because of said frenzy. People with a lack of 'Disney insider' information - meaning those who don't travel there frequently - hear that if they don't jump in at the stroke of midnight a couple of months out they'll loose something. Clearly you visit frequently and have obtained a large amount of information to guide you through a system that's not designed to benefit the guest. Not everyone is in the same position.

Visiting a theme park shouldn't be more complex than doing taxes.

I am. If someone is aware of it, and consciously decides not to even reserve any FP at all and would rather wait in line for the same ride, it is perplexing. I assume you are at least aware of what week you will be going to Disney world. You have a 1 in 4 chance of getting the park right that day.

 

[Whatsthegoodword]

The interesting part to me is it seems like the issue is all change as others have mentioned.

Growing up, there were no fast passes. So you know what we did? Stood in line. For 2+ hours sometimes for E-tickets. And we stood there, with no drinks, no running into quick rides, no anything. You just stood.

Then fastpass came around. And you had a choice. Stand there, or get a fastpass, wait and do other things, and then ride. But popular attractions started to be an issue (Radiator Springs, TSMM at DHS, 7DMT) - so you had to rope drop fast passes. And the real diehards rope dropped fast passes and then jumped in the line and did it twice. And late risers (like us) didn't get to get fast passes. So guess what we did? We stood in line. Usually for a lot less than 2 hours.

And now? 60 days out, there's the mad dash for fast passes. But lets be fair. Its a mad dash for the E-ticket rides/M&Gs. The regular stuff is still around. Its just the A&E, 7DMT, TSMMs of the world that you can't get. And you couldn't get them before unless you rope dropped. But now I get 3 fast passes instead of 1. And ridership is definitely UP on the mid-tier rides. So they've balanced the load.

So, we took the advantage from the early risers, and moved it to the planners for the "in demand" items. For everything else, they bumped you from 1 fastpass to 3. And, they haven't actually eliminated ANY standby lines, so thats still an option.

And the really interesting thing is this: If now there are longer lines on Pooh, and ISW, and Buzz due to the fastpass situation - where would those people be without those lines? Without fastpass encouraging people into those rides? Thats right... those people would be standing in line at the E-tickets. Supply and Demand. The supply hasn't gone up, the demand has, and yet... 7DMT has not experienced 2+ hour waits. Even TSMM seems to be down a tick. The lower and mid-tier rides are up, and the E-tickets are flat to down slightly. Seems like the system is working precisely as desired.

Chris

EXACTLY. Well said.

I remember waiting for two hours for the Jungle Cruise before FP. I haven't waited that long for a ride since the invention of FP. Thank you Mickey Mouse!

 

[Budshark]

Visiting a theme park shouldn't be more complex than doing taxes.

Its not... and your tax comment is a great analogy.

You can pick up TurboTax or TaxAct or FreeFile and do your taxes for free. Completely legal, very easy, done in an evening. Did you get the MAXIMUM value out of doing your taxes? Did you get every penny? How many "billions" did you leave on the table? Don't know... but it was painless and easy and free and you did the necessary activity.

Or... you can follow the "advice" of the TV ads, and the accountants, and the paid services. You can spend a year planning, save every receipt, meet every deductible, contribute to charities for the sole purpose of dropping your tax burden by 2%, replace your window to get the tax credit, make every decision to maximize your credits. Then take all that paperwork, all those records, and go to an accountant and run the numbers and review the options and maximize your tax return.

There are people who will tell you that you are nuts for not doing the 2nd option. You gave up hundreds or thousands of dollars to the government who is just going to use it to buy fancy toilet paper and you are a fool.

Its your choice to believe the hype, do the planning, make the decision, pay the accountant, and get every penny back you are due. Or, you know, spend 2 hours one evening in February, get back 95% of what you would've gotten back anyways, and call it a day without the burden and stress.

Same with Disney. If you didn't plan 1 single bit, woke up Tuesday morning, decided you wanted to go to Magic Kingdom that day, you could get Fastpasses for everything you wanted EXCEPT 7DMT and Anna & Elsa. So get your 3 fast passes day of, go to the park, enjoy it, and stand in line for 7DMT for 70 minutes instead of 5, and A&E for 60 minutes instead of 10. But if the thought that other people "planned" their day 2 months prior and stood in line for about 2 hours less and did the same things you did upsets you... I'm not sure anyone can help with that conflict. The option is there, and if you don't use it nothing is taken away and hopefully you are happy with the choices.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

But its just nice to explain why its gotten soo much better for many of us.

Mostly the improved evening touring, and also the major drop in price for Deluxe resort stays-many by 80%.

80% drop in price...huh?

Through the use of DVC.

<runs and hides>

Exactly. As stated "for some of us", we have legitimate reasons why we see vast improvements already. FP+ for the evenings, and DVC expansion.

Contemporary, POLY and GF have all gone from $500 a night lost cash stays, to about $100 a night in dues.