For Teachers RE: Administrators

[disney junky]

I'll offer some generalizations:

Some teachers become administrators because they can't cut it in the classroom. These types are teachers' worst enemy.

Some administrators go into administration because they will be able to get jobs somewhere. It's the only job I know where simply getting certified virtually assures you of getting an admin job if you want it. In Pennsylvania, less than 30% of people certified in admin go into it. It's a thankless job.

Some administrators go into administration because being a teacher in this day and age isn't exactly considered a noble profession. Just read the postings here on the DIS. So being an administrator is the equivalent of being the boss in industry. I've known many teachers who became administrators for this reason.

Excellent administrators are few and far between, and as a result can command large salaries by moving, which they do often.

The longer someone teaches, the less incentive there is to become an adminstrator. Our teaching salaries around here on the upper end surpass our administrator's, so the financial incentive is only for the young teachers. Therefore, you get a lot of very young adminstrators who may lack the wisdom that years of dealing with teachers and students brings. They think because they've taken classes, they are good administrators.

A couple years ago I thought I'd take some admin courses. I have been teaching since 1980. I got three classes into the coursework and realized that there was NO WAY I wanted the headaches that go with the job. Plus, I love the kids. Don't get me wrong, some days I hate the kids, but I love teaching. Administrators at the secondary level have little positive contact with kids and parents. It's not that they don't want to, it's just not the nature of the job.

This week we had racial issues, alcohol hidden in a tea bottle a student was drinking, and another issue far more serious that I don't wish to post here. Probation officers, police officers and parents were all called and involved. We are a rural school. It's a nice place to work and live. The administrators, two of whom I consider friends, had weeks from hades. My biggest problem was getting the students in my American lit class to appreciate Rebecca Harding Davis' novella Life in the Iron Mill. I only heard about the other problems. I'll take my job over theirs anyday.

 

[Boston Tea Party]

I love my principal. Sorry you are having a rough time.

 

[DisneyDotty]

My DH is a school administrator. I taught high school for 10 years.

My first department chair was a demon. My colleague used to scream every morning in the shower before coming to work because she knew she had to face him. He left. The department chair after him was an angel. I loved working for/with him and he encouraged me to grow professionally well beyond that of which I thought I was capable.

So yes, some administrators are awful and have no business being in the profession (Gosh, does that happen in any other business? Let's start a thread and see how many pages it grows to!) and some are dedicated, caring professionals who have the children's success as their priority.

P.S.As we all well know, there are two (often more) sides to every story--administrators included. Unfortunately, laws prohibit the sharing of personnel issues, so teachers and parents often only hear the teacher's side, and the administrator is left to look very bad. (Granted, there are some in the education business who make themselves look bad without anyone else's help!)

 

[Quinn222]

Okay...do you ever wonder if there is a place on the application for school administrator that says...."are you a psycho, have you got any type of mental illness, have you ever been fired from your job because you have demoralized an entire faculty and/or are you intellectually impaired"?? If you do not answer YES to at least 3 of these we will NOT hire you!!

I'm pretty sure they have that question on the application here in FL.

 

[disykat]

I guess I've been lucky. I've been involved as a student, a teacher, or a substitute teacher for a total of 24 years and haven't had a problem with crazy administrators. I had one principal I didn't exactly love, but he was quite competent.

 

[Talking Hands]

I think they get a little too far removed from the kids at a certain level, and have to become political -- that can really change them.

My DS's principal continually says to him, "You're a loser. You'll never amount to anything." The middle school principal used to S C R E A M at the kids at the top of his lungs, all but using profanities at them.

What ed psych class did they pick that up in?

Geez, our principal is very personable, easy to talk to, supportive, doesn't put down anyone. Being principal is a very stressful job not only dealing with educational issues but also school maintenence, construction and everything else that has to do with the school. Recently she has had coffee and bagels for the teachers on several occasions to celebrate accomplishments of teachers or paras. We have the Miami-Dade County teacher of the year and she is also a finalist (1 of 5) for the Fla teacher of the year. We also have the runner-up for para of the year.
She takes time to talk to the kids even the deaf kids although she doesn't sign (I interpret). She also have contests for attendence and for the last day of school is planning a carnival.
UNfortunately for us she is considering going back into the classroom and her husband is encouraging her to do it as well. She misses teaching.

 

[Galahad]

Actually, not ALL administrators were teachers. Especially once you get t0 the central adminstration of most school districts. Many of those are people did not work up the ranks from teacher to the central office. They got their jobs through cronyism.

In our state, all administrators except the business office (financial and such) MUST be teachers including the central office. In most districts I'm aware of they must also spend time teaching in a classroom each year as well.

 

[Galahad]

What other union puts someone other than their own members first?

All of them.

 

[Louise-Montreal]

After having taught for over 25 years, most administrators are crackpots! I have had only two who were outstanding and I would have done anything for them. In order to garner respect from people you have to first respect them. Many prinicpals have no respect for teachers and consequently treat them like factory workers. We are not dealing with products; we are dealing with children and teens who are first and foremost humans who need to be treated with respect and not generalized as hooligans who are trying to avoid work and classwork at all costs. Some of these kids come to school everyday under the most unimaginable circumstances and survive each day. What raises my ire is when administrators just make stupid decisions based on a protocol and not taking into account the consequences of such decisions.

Example One- Refusing to let a student go to the Grad Dance because she was not graduating that year although all her classmates were. Said student was not passing because she had learning difficulties, but is a great student who tries her best all the time.

Example Two- Refusing to let an autistic boy have the same reader (the one he has had all year) for his final exams. Reason- he had to get used to other readers. (Yeah, fine time to start that- during his final exams)

The list goes on- thankfully people in positions of higher authority overuled these stupid decisions and both kids did not have to suffer.

Because these decisions come from people of authority- kids being kids are intimidated and often allow themselves to "bullied". So when non-teachers ask why we have such strong reactions to some of these nut cases- it is because often times these stupid decisions affect the people we care about the most- our students.

 

[Marseeya]

My biggest problem was getting the students in my American lit class to appreciate Rebecca Harding Davis' novella Life in the Iron Mill. I only heard about the other problems. I'll take my job over theirs anyday.

Hey, good luck with that. I have a degree in English and I don't even appreciate that story.

 

[chobie]

All of them.

I don't understand what you mean by that. And I think your state is an exception to the rule when it comes to admins having to be teachers first.

 

[barkley]

if there's a rule here that school admin has to have teaching experience it must be minute experience at best. case in point-guy i went to highschool with after only 2 years of teaching (and this was 1 -2 classes per day because the rest of his day was being assistant coach on all of the sports teams) parlayed his "vast experience and training" into becoming the youngest HIGH SCHOOL PRINCIPAL IN THE UNITED STATES (at the time he was appointed)-no moving up through the ranks, from teacher/coach to principal. he struggled (as did the students, parents, staff and teachers in the highschool he worked at) for a couple of years before he was "reassigned" to a much lower ranking position.

the bulk of our administrators may not even be legal to teach in the schools to which they are assigned (if they have an admin credential they don't meet the teaching credential requirements, if they have an elementary they cant teach in jr/sr high and visa versa)-so many have no teaching experience or have not been in a classroom for decades.

the same goes for public service agencies-with the exception of child welfare (cps) which the law requires an administrative position to hold a msw degree in-the bulk of top level administrators have never "worked" in the system and know only theoretical practices.

a good administrator gets to know the realities of that which they administer and works to support staff/those served.

 

[mum4jenn]

Well...in our system I am beginning to think there is something wrong with the Superintendent. We have a WONDERFUL elem school Principal but his contract was not renewed because he stood up for what was BEST for the kids. He stood his ground and refused to resign. This man knows every child by name (over 600 kids) and everyday is out side on bus duty morning AND afternoon. Works on the weekends to work on landscaping at the school. We have a very old school and when it rains they have to put wooden pallets on the sidewalks to keeps the kids feet dry and HE is the one that gets out there placing thew pallets out. He attends every after school event and even gets in the pie-in-the face- booth!! I will miss him so much. He has been an advocate for me from day one when I was transferred to this school as a cashier and fought to get me promoted because the manager was so pitiful. He trusts me to take care of the lunchroom completely and has never had to tell me what to do. He also is great at making me laugh when I am mad about something my dd has done at her school and makes me not take myself so seriously.

Wherever this man goes will be a great win for the system that gets him. I just wish he was staying with us.

I do agree that there are some crazy administrators out there though...WE just did not have one. Next year.........we will see.

 

[TerriP]

I work in the administrative building at a county ESD. In Michigan, you do not have to teach prior to working as an Admin. One of my dearest friends is a Kindergarten teacher in another district. Her Principal has never taught. She has a degree in Elementary Administration and went straight into her Principal job from College. She is a bit older though, she went back to college at the age of 35 when she got tired of her previous job...as a PRISION GUARD!!! I am NOT kidding!

We have some less-then-desirable admins in my disrict (IMHO) but we also have some creative, intelligent, fair and compassionate admins...I think there are good and bad workers in every field and education is no different.

 

[disykat]

I'm getting the idea that we have good administrators because it is competitive to get a job here. It is hard to get a teaching job, it is hard to get a job in admin. We have an abundance of qualified people applying for every job.

 

[chobie]

I'm getting the idea that we have good administrators because it is competitive to get a job here. It is hard to get a teaching job, it is hard to get a job in admin. We have an abundance of qualified people applying for every job.

I'm from your state and you would be suprised by the level of incompentence in the central offices. When I referred to those types getting positions through cronynism I was specifically referrring to the ones in knew in your state. In particular, the Seattle school district superintendent a few years ago "lost" some 8 million dollars. Then the school board refused to fire him at first and finally did when it got close to re-election time. By then it was too late and I beleive 5 incumbent board members were voted out of office, which is a rare occurrence indeed.

Granted losing that amount of money is big news. Most of the admins mess ups don't make into the paper, they get swept under the rug and you the tax payer will never know it about it.

EDA: Actaully it was 34 million that went unaccounted for. And he had been the financial officer before being promoted to superintendent.

 

[Bella the Ball 360]

After having taught for over 25 years, most administrators are crackpots! I have had only two who were outstanding and I would have done anything for them. In order to garner respect from people you have to first respect them. Many prinicpals have no respect for teachers and consequently treat them like factory workers. We are not dealing with products; we are dealing with children and teens who are first and foremost humans who need to be treated with respect and not generalized as hooligans who are trying to avoid work and classwork at all costs. Some of these kids come to school everyday under the most unimaginable circumstances and survive each day. What raises my ire is when administrators just make stupid decisions based on a protocol and not taking into account the consequences of such decisions.

Example One- Refusing to let a student go to the Grad Dance because she was not graduating that year although all her classmates were. Said student was not passing because she had learning difficulties, but is a great student who tries her best all the time.

Example Two- Refusing to let an autistic boy have the same reader (the one he has had all year) for his final exams. Reason- he had to get used to other readers. (Yeah, fine time to start that- during his final exams)

The list goes on- thankfully people in positions of higher authority overuled these stupid decisions and both kids did not have to suffer.

Because these decisions come from people of authority- kids being kids are intimidated and often allow themselves to "bullied". So when non-teachers ask why we have such strong reactions to some of these nut cases- it is because often times these stupid decisions affect the people we care about the most- our students.

So apparently this is an epidemic...it has reached all the way north to Canada!! i went out today and never expected this thread to be so long. I guess I hit a nerve but it helps me to know that I am not the only one in this boat. Our principal has been fired from all the schools he has worked in and now he is at OUR school. Does anyone doubt that they hire psychos?

Oh I forgot to mention that the one we had working at our H.S.(he was a GYM teacher for a couple of years and he too was fired from his ap position in another city) and totally demoralized the staff..left for greener pastures in another city . Unfortunately they caught him looking at pornorgraphy of children and he was fired. Last I heard he was painting houses. Again ...does anyone question my theory that the psycho questions must be answered in the affirmative in order to be hired?

 

[DisneyDotty]

Again ...does anyone question my theory that the psycho questions must be answered in the affirmative in order to be hired?

I question it. Or rather suggest that EVERY job has its share of psychos. Teachers, too. (And I was a teacher--I've seen 'em! Perhaps I was even one myself!)

 

[taximomfor4]

YOU GOT IT RIGHT!! Sometimes I wonder if all the people who posted on this thread read the title....which is directed to teachers. But at least chobie you and I can set them straight. I do not think anyone who is a teacher would disagree with what you said. The only suggestion I would have made in your reply is I would have spelled CRONYISM all in caps! I do not think many of the nay sayers got the full impact of the word. I will spell write it again for those who did not CRONYISM.

Hmmmm. Not here. In fact, I cannot think of a single administrator I know of, who didn't teach. DH (a teacher) and I just listed all the area districts and the administrators...neither of us could fine ONE who didn't begin as a teacher and work upward.

As for the original purpose of the OP, I understand that there are bad administrators. Just as there are bad doctors, bad lawyers, bad actors, bad cashiers, bad waitresses.