? for our African American members

[SRUAlmn]

You have every right to self identify as you wish. That's one of the many great things about this country.
We all make our choices and thank goodness we have the right to choose what to think and the freedom to express our diverse opinions.

I agree, but don't you think it's going a little overboard? I can be proud of my heritage and celebrate and embrace it without demanding that unless people refer to me as that they are not being PC.

 

[mamaprincess]

There was no demand being made by me. We can't demand anything from other adults all we can do is state our position whatever it may be, and hope that it is respected. Demanding is never a good means to an end.

 

[grinningghost]

DH hates the term African American, he is black and will say he's black when having to answer any kind of race type question on forms or etc. It leaves too much room for variations, example: Charlize Theron who is techincally also African American but not black. That seems to confuse some people. In the famous words of my black DH "My ancestors came from Africa but I've never been to Africa and never plan on going there so why do I have to be African-American? I'm black, you're white, let's move on."

That makes so much sense, I think I'm going to faint. Your DH is one seriously smart cookie.

 

[Tigger&Belle]

I said this on another thread a while back and got some hostile remarks for it, but I do think that when you are trying to describe a particular person to someone, it is not a big deal to say what color they are. I live on a street that is a block long, and it is very racially and ethnically diverse - of the 15 or so families here, we have a pretty even mixture of black/AA, white, hispanic, asian, and middle eastern. We don't know everyone, as not everyone on the street is all that social. So sometimes if DH or I are referring to one of the families on our street when talking to each other, we will use color/ethnicity to make it clear who we are talking about.

Makes perfect sense to me! We have a very small, but diverse neighborhood. If I know someones name I'll refer to them as that. In the houses just on my part of our cul-de-sac, 5 of the 8 families came from other countries (not their ancesters, but at least one of the adults in that house). If I don't know their name I will refer to them by their ethnic origin.

 

[SRUAlmn]

There was no demand being made by me. We can't demand anything from other adults all we can do is state our position whatever it may be, and hope that it is respected. Demanding is never a good means to an end.

I apologize, I didn't mean that you personally were demanding Political Correctness, I meant society as a whole was.

 

[ioneblair]

A black person is a person of African descent however many generations he may be removed.....I am an American woman of African descent and I am equally proud of both.

I didn't see any demands here either from mamaprincess....just her explanation of how she feels about the term AA and why she feels that way. I don't think prefering one term over another, not caring which is used, or not liking a particular term being used is something that should be up for others to pronounce about, i.e. you shouldn't prefer, you shouldn't use, you shouldn't dislike (certain terms) because I don't see it that way, I don't refer to myself that way.....

these are just descriptive terms, and are seen in a variety of ways....some within a context that as it happens, you probably just don't understand at this time....that's all....sometimes empathy helps me see another's view/preference, etc. , sometimes I can't get all the way there.....

(but I work at it, for ex. I visited the Holocaust Memorial Museum twice, read countless books and first hand acounts of survivors, viewed countless documentaries and films on the subject and even visited a concentration camp in Dachau, Germany.....cried buckets of deeply felt, heart-striking tears.....still I know that I'm not seeing this from the context of survivors and their decendants so there will be things they express, prefer, think and feel that although I want to, I won't always appreciate fully)

Can all black people trace their heritage back to Africa? If not, then African-American seems kinda silly if one is not truly "African" American.

The majority of the people that make up the black population here in america are those descendants of the west africans brought here at the inception of this country.

even among the not-too-into-their-heritage blacks, and even without being able to trace exact roots for many blacks (and you know why of course), there is no discounting of the origins of their ancestors since their ancestors were truly african , that is one of the reasons the term AA began to be used in the first place....in honor, acknowledgement , respect, etc. to great-grand parents whose blood runs in our veins.....

(*in my family (one side) I'm seven generations removed from enslaved african foreparents*)

 

[Lachesis00]

I call my dh "my little eskimo pie" the man is 100% Alaskan Inupiak eskimo.... someone on one of my boards freaked on me!! WT Heck??? I call him my little Petunia too... does that mean I've got flower issues too???

I have no friends or aquaintences or friends (not by choice) that are black but I've often wondered the ops question... Or say I see a little girl with her hair done up.... can I say "I saw the cutest little black girl with her hair done up... I just loved it". Im sorry but people who are white just do not look right in cornrows and beads!

I had a similar thing happen with my DH that the OP had. I'd referred to someone as Oriental and he went off saying how offensive and non-PC it was and I was surprised. So I asked a friend who was Japanese and she thought he was crazy and said she used the term Oriental herself!

 

[luvthatduke]

Thank you Shugardrawers for allowing me a moment on your thread .
Thanks to everyone who gave their opinion, it's been very helpful.
Aidensmom, your post fit the bill:

... I said this on another thread a while back and got some hostile remarks for it, but I do think that when you are trying to describe a particular person to someone, it is not a big deal to say what color they are. I live on a street that is a block long, and it is very racially and ethnically diverse - of the 15 or so families here, we have a pretty even mixture of black/AA, white, hispanic, asian, and middle eastern. We don't know everyone, as not everyone on the street is all that social. So sometimes if DH or I are referring to one of the families on our street when talking to each other, we will use color/ethnicity to make it clear who we are talking about. For instance, I told my husband yesterday "the little boy across the street said he is 7 years old." As DH does not know their names, he asked if it was the black child or the white child I was referring to. I don't see a problem with that. However, if someone is just describing a situation, such as "I saw this woman today with the most beautiful shoes", where race/ethnicity doesn't matter in the least, and they added that in anyways ("I saw this hispanic woman..."), then I would suspect that that person did make judgements based on that.

This is exactly what I was thinking about when I posted my question.
I don't see a problem using any person's physical characteristics
to describe them when it's necessary - as you have pointed out.
Your street sounds like mine, and your DH's question would be
perfectly at place here while talking with neighbors of any
culture or skin color, because it was sincere and asked as simply a
way to clarify the subject.
The part I bolded is the type of scenario that prompted my post.
After reading everyone's responses, I'm thinking that it's also
generational and regional.
While it's usually a person who is at least 40,
I can't tell you how many people in my area just "have" to put
the person's ethinicity ahead of whatever they were going to say,
good or bad - it makes me nuts!

Thanks again SD, I am enjoying my education on this thread!

 

[goofy4tink]

Thanks for an incredibly interesting thread. It's really interesting to see how others feel about the same thing. I think I can honestly say that I try not to put 'black' or African-American or 'white' in my conversations. No more than I would say Italian-American or Irish-American. In most cases I just don't see it as relevant. Yes, I see color...to me it is indicative of a particular culture. I have never liked the phrase African-American. I just can't figure out why we have to point out what color a person't skin is when making a statement. I have that same issue in news reports. It was always..."A 6'4" black man...." never "A 6'4" white man...." . What's good for one is good for all.

Now, let me share something my now almost 12 y/o dd said about 5 years ago. There was a news story on t.v. relating some race issues and the skin color of those involved. I remember the newsperson saying something about the treatment of blacks because of their skin color. My dd looked up at me and said..."Mom, I don't get it. Why is it that people think getting a really dark tan is really a good thing and then treat those people with dark tan skin badly? It just does't seem right." Out of the mouths of babes.
Until we stop differentiating between people based on skin color, we will always be at odds. People are people...that's all that matters. My 1/2 black sister in law is no better than her 100% bkack father, nor is her 1/4 black son better than she is....and I am most certainly not better than any of them. So very ridiculous. Hopefully down the road, in the future, people will look back at us and just shake their heads in sadness, trying to figure out how we could allow such differences.

 

[ioneblair]

off topic: mamaprincess and any who like poetry, this poem is pasted on my bedroom door and I pass it all of the time but today I thought of this thread and those posting here might find it interesting at the least....

Song for the Old Ones

ok back on topic.....again

 

[funhouse8]

the next time we are filling out a form that wants our race
lets all put Human!

 

[Lan]

I have no problem with referring to myself as Black or African American, but you can just refer to me as being cute and call it a day. I have never really focused on the "correct term" to be honest and I am 33.

Please forgive me if it sounds as if I am taking it lightly. I just got back from Disney today and trying to not to lose my Disney high while geting back into the real world.

 

[mamaprincess]

off topic: mamaprincess and any who like poetry, this poem is pasted on my bedroom door and I pass it all of the time but today I thought of this thread and those posting here might find it interesting at the least....

Song for the Old Ones

ok back on topic.....again

Thank you for the wonderful poem.

 

[luvthatduke]

That poem was amazing, simply amazing.

 

[sodaseller]

The epithet "PC" is just a synonym for manners.

 

[Obi-Wan Pinobi]

The epithet "PC" is just a synonym for manners.

I disagree. One can show manners without being politically correct.

On this thread I've read various preferences -- some people prefer to be called black, some prefer to be called African-American, some have no preference, and at least one said they know someone who prefers the term negro. If I refer to someone as black, it's not that I'm being offensive, but I'm using it as a descriptive term the same way I would eye color, hair color, or height.

To me, political correctness is about control. It's about one person or group of people trying to control how another person or group of people speak and think.

 

[luvthatduke]

I disagree. One can show manners without being politically correct.

On this thread I've read various preferences -- some people prefer to be called black, some prefer to be called African-American, some have no preference, and at least one said they know someone who prefers the term negro. If I refer to someone as black, it's not that I'm being offensive, but I'm using it as a descriptive term the same way I would eye color, hair color, or height.

To me, political correctness is about control. It's about one person or group of people trying to control how another person or group of people speak and think.

Very well said, the last paragraph in particular is an excellent point.

 

[Geronimo]

I have three things to say about this subject.


1.mamaprincess-you summed in just a few words what 6 pages of posters couldn't seem to understand.... Well written!

2. I've never seen anyone with black skin. (So ask yourself when, how, and why did that term come into use in America?) you have to do some research.-Hint: it wasn't "black" people who started using that term first.

3. Charlize Theron is from South Africa,that would make her South African. I don't know if she has dual citizenship or not,but just because someone makes movies in Hollywood doesn't mean they are an American citizen.

 

[sha_lyn]

Geronimo... white people don't really have white skin, so what is your point?

 

[dis ms.]

can I say "I saw the cutest little black girl with her hair done up... I just loved it". Im sorry but people who are white just do not look right in cornrows and beads!

I'm black. That's how I refer to myself. I don't take offense to being called African-American, but that's way too many syllables for me.

As far as using someone's skin color, ethnicity, etc., in a descriptive matter, I agree with most posters here. When it's the best way to distinguish someone from others, I'm all for it. If a black woman is standing with five other women that aren't black, it's a no-brainer to say "the black woman over there..."

It does bother me to hear someone refer to a person's race when there is no relevance whatsoever. Aidensmom, I remember the thread to which you're referring (I participated in it). I think your example makes sense. Since you don't know your neighbors' names, you and your DH are simply using what you know of your neighbors (ethnicity) to distinguish them.

I must admit that the above example made me wince. Not to single you out, Lachesis00, but my thought would be "What difference does it make that the cute little girl was black?" I understand what you're saying about white people and corn rows ( ), but I still don't think it's necessary to mention her skin color. I think many people who wouldn't hesitate to say, "I saw this black woman today in a beautiful outfit" would never imagine saying "I saw this white woman..."

Now, before I get off my soapbox...as far as the issue between light- and dark-skinned blacks: I am very light-skinned, and have felt resentment from some darker skinned blacks. I think the feeling is that white people are more accepting of lighter skinned blacks. Also, lighter skinned blacks often have features that are closer to the more "conventional" idea of beauty. Don't read that as me saying I'm cute or anything. Now, if someone else wants to say I'm cute, I won't stop them!