? for our African American members

[Marseeya]

I want to show one of my university professors this thread!

In this one particular class, we discuss diversity and multiculturalism every class session and it seems to be very important to this professor. (this class isn't my actual multiculturalism class I mentioned earlier).

Anyway, he was telling us a story last night about one of his other classes and talking about how he helped one of his students and several times he referred to this student as his "black student."

I was like, The kid's color was totally irrelevant to the story! A few of us were more than a little taken aback by that and I plan on e-mailing him this week and telling him about it. He needs to practice what he preaches.

 

[dis ms.]

Anyway, he was telling us a story last night about one of his other classes and talking about how he helped one of his students and several times he referred to this student as his "black student."

I was like, The kid's color was totally irrelevant to the story! A few of us were more than a little taken aback by that and I plan on e-mailing him this week and telling him about it. He needs to practice what he preaches.

Maybe the student's last name is Black.

Seriously, that is . Good for you for calling him on it!

 

[ioneblair]

I think the feeling is that white people are more accepting of lighter skinned blacks. Also, lighter skinned blacks often have features that are closer to the more "conventional" idea of beauty.

yes this is a smidgen of the issues that go into the racisim among blacks....as an extension to your thought--it's the aim at standardizing what beauty looks like (and that certain ones should, and have the authority for others to actually do this) and all the advantages that that may bring and what it's supposed to say about the person that looks that way, it's also fraught with the deliberateness of stirring up divisions among slaves by shrewd owners that's been carried through these ages, systemized works of creating self-loathing in blacks and its effects carried through these ages, other things of course, and then add in the general human propensity at condenscension towards other peoples without and within a race, society or peoples, humans always in some form or other lean towards dominating each other if only in their own minds......it takes training, effort, growth and/or adhering to principles and values that helps one to not succumb to such a mindset.....and it can be ongoing.....

I like that Marseeya shows that even those that teach/advocate otherwise are not immune from displaying a tad of the distinctions that edge toward racism (without being a racist....perish the thought! ).....

I know I know I keep going off topic but there Frederick Douglas was great in discerning the effects of slavery on the pscyhe of a person, the slave as well as the slave owner and others indirectly (or even unwillingly indirectly) involved......I forget which book of his (but pick up one for some very good reading he was a phenomenal writer) I read it in but I think it was his autobiography....yeah, that's it, that he chronicled not only his life as a slave ----> his freedom but also the workings of the minds of others as they lived in and were affected by the systemized slavery in this country, (please don't believe that the past has no effect on the present or the future).....there's of course some extremely (horrifically so) brutal parts so if you are squeamish keep turning pages until it's over.....

sorry for the looong off topic.....

 

[sm4987]

oh boy. To start talking about the whole light skinned vs. dark skinned color is an entirely different and exhausting topic. I too am light skinned and often feel like I'm more excepted than other's and get treat really differently. dis ms., isn't that totally amazing!!! Let's not even go there with being an educated person!! Sometimes I wonder who says that race isn't an issue!

 

[dis ms.]

oh boy. To start talking about the whole light skinned vs. dark skinned color is an entirely different and exhausting topic. I too am light skinned and often feel like I'm more excepted than other's and get treat really differently. dis ms., isn't that totally amazing!!! Let's not even go there with being an educated person!! Sometimes I wonder who says that race isn't an issue!

We interrupt this regularly scheduled thread to get totally off-topic:

ITA! I have even had people tell me I'm "not really black". Or that I don't sound black. I guess because I am educated. I'm black, so however I sound is how a black person sounds, right?

The grass may seem greener for a light-skinned black person, but I've felt prejudice from darker blacks and whites.

We now join the regularly scheduled thread already in progress.

 

[sha_lyn]

As far as using someone's skin color, ethnicity, etc., in a descriptive matter, I agree with most posters here. When it's the best way to distinguish someone from others, I'm all for it. If a black woman is standing with five other women that aren't black, it's a no-brainer to say "the black woman over there..."

LOL reminds me of something that happened during the summer..... We were at a martial arts tournament in Orlando in June. One day after the competition I was standing in a large group of officials when my instructors phone rang. His end of the converstion when like this
yes I am still; in the building. I'm on the floor. OK I see you, see me waving. OK look at the large group of people in red shirts. See the tall black man in the middle surrounded by short white women?

I was dying laughing. My friend K was on the other side of the arena and didn't have her glasses on. she couldn't find us.

I have to run, but when I get back I have a very funny story about my instructor.

 

[USA Here I Come]

DH hates the term African American, he is black and will say he's black when having to answer any kind of race type question on forms or etc. It leaves too much room for variations, example: Charlize Theron who is techincally also African American but not black. That seems to confuse some people. In the famous words of my black DH "My ancestors came from Africa but I've never been to Africa and never plan on going there so why do I have to be African-American? I'm black, you're white, let's move on."

I'm with your DH!

My cousins were born and raised in Africa but are white. They moved to the USA a few years ago and became American...they are technically african american but aren't black, sheesh talk about confusing.

 

[Geronimo]

If it is acceptable to refer to individuals as "blacks" & "whites" then it must also be equally acceptable to call people "reds" and "yellows" right?

 

[sha_lyn]

now to continue with my funny story.

I'll just call them by their 1st initials

C and his wife N were eating in a Mexican restaurant. N looks around and sees the restaurant if full of hispanics. N turns to C and says "honey we are the only white people here." C laughs and says "no honey you are the only white person here, not even our son is white."

 

[dis ms.]

If it is acceptable to refer to individuals as "blacks" & "whites" then it must also be equally acceptable to call people "reds" and "yellows" right?

I call myself black and I call Caucasians (including my husband) white. Unless someone tells me it offends them, I will continue to do so. I wouldn't call people "red" or "yellow" because that is not equally accepted in society. I can't (won't even try) to explain the different standard of acceptance. I won't get into a debate about it, either.

Actually, light-skinned blacks are called yellow. Sometimes--as a previous poster mentioned--light-skinned blacks are even called "high yellow". Confusing, huh?

 

[ioneblair]

sha_lyn that last story was funnny LOL.....

ok I know eventually I will get flamed for going off topic every time but got to add another story that reminded me of.....

married friends of mine, he is black and married his white wife and became step-father to her two white daughters.....one day they were discussing a trait of one of the daughters and wife says, "honey, I wonder which side of the family she got that from"....he says "hmm, I don't know" so they are thinking back into both of their family medical histories to figure out who daughter got this trait from and then it hits them! she isn't his biological daughter , doesn't mean they are color blind, he is markedly brown but speaks to the humanity and the family bonding that has happened.....the girls feel that he is their dad in all ways.....

dis ms. and sm4987 sorry that you have felt mistreatment because of the color of your skin from others of your race.....all of the displays of racial (cause) stereotyping (add effect--discrimination) and associated with things such as "sounding black (or white)", "being an educated black" (related to being a credit to one's race), having "good hair"....and so on goes so much further deeper than the incident of your mistreatment/discrimination.....you are right sm4987, it indeed is an "entirely different and exhausting topic", I know you know that intra-racial discrimination in its many forms is not unique to black people.....

 

[snoopy]

I call myself black and I call Caucasians (including my husband) white. Unless someone tells me it offends them, I will continue to do so. I wouldn't call people "red" or "yellow" because that is not equally accepted in society. I can't (won't even try) to explain the different standard of acceptance. I won't get into a debate about it, either.

I don't blame you for refusing to debate it....there is nothing to debate. Fact of the matter is some people will be offended no matter what you say, so say what feels most comfortable and least offensive to you personally.

 

[luvthatduke]

... married friends of mine, he is black and married his white wife and became step-father to her two white daughters.....one day they were discussing a trait of one of the daughters and wife says, "honey, I wonder which side of the family she got that from"....he says "hmm, I don't know" so they are thinking back into both of their family medical histories to figure out who daughter got this trait from and then it hits them! she isn't his biological daughter , doesn't mean they are color blind, he is markedly brown but speaks to the humanity and the family bonding that has happened.....the girls feel that he is their dad in all ways.....

Very cool story! I love it

dis ms. and sm4987 sorry that you have felt mistreatment because of the color of your skin from others of your race.....all of the displays of racial (cause) stereotyping (add effect--discrimination) and associated with things such as "sounding black (or white)", "being an educated black" (related to being a credit to one's race), having "good hair"....and so on goes so much further deeper than the incident of your mistreatment/discrimination.....you are right sm4987, it indeed is an "entirely different and exhausting topic", I know you know that intra-racial discrimination in its many forms is not unique to black people.....

Your hair comment reminded me of an embarassing thing that happened
a while back, about 15 years or so.
I was working with a really nice girl
(who was black - it's relevant to the story),
and she and I worked together 5 nights a week.
We'd talk about all sorts of things and it was nice
to have a friend at work.
Then I did something that had an effect I never even knew about until
another co-worker told me months later!

I never knew what "nappy hair" was, didn't have a clue.
One night we were gabbing about things and I told her I
had read in a fashion magazine about this hair type
called "nappy" and they had a black model talking about it
like it was something bad.
I said that I couldn't recall ever seeing "bad hair" on any black
person I'd ever known so what in the world were they talking about?
She said she didn't really know and changed the subject,
but because I was young and naive (read:stupid)
I didn't realize she'd purposely changed the subject.
Well, our company was downsizing and a while after that
we all lost our jobs, only she "lost" hers before the rest.
You've probably figured out by that last statement
that she quit - and it wasn't until after the business
closed that someone told me that she had, in fact, quit!
Now, it didn't take me very long to recall the conversation,
and then realized she had definitely changed the subject,
and that she hadn't been as talkative after that.
Oh my goodness, I felt terrible!!
I didn't even know what I'd done, but knew I had somehow
made her feel badly by my question - bad enough to make her leave .
I could write much more about this,
just believe me that I have no doubt she left (at least mainly)
because of my question.
Just thought I'd share, thanks for listening - it's actually making
me feel good to tell someone because I never got the chance
to apologize to my 'almost' friend.

 

[dis ms.]

I never knew what "nappy hair" was, didn't have a clue.
One night we were gabbing about things and I told her I
had read in a fashion magazine about this hair type
called "nappy" and they had a black model talking about it
like it was something bad.
I said that I couldn't recall ever seeing "bad hair" on any black
person I'd ever known so what in the world were they talking about?
She said she didn't really know and changed the subject,
but because I was young and naive (read:stupid)
I didn't realize she'd purposely changed the subject...and it wasn't until after the business
closed that someone told me that she had, in fact, quit!
Now, it didn't take me very long to recall the conversation,
and then realized she had definitely changed the subject,
and that she hadn't been as talkative after that.
Oh my goodness, I felt terrible!!
I didn't even know what I'd done, but knew I had somehow
made her feel badly by my question - bad enough to make her leave .

Wow! From what you've written here, I don't see what you did that was bad enough to cause her to leave. You weren't criticizing "nappy" hair. In fact, you were paying black people a compliment by saying you had never seen a black person with bad hair. If anything, I suppose she could've taken the opportunity to "educate" you about black hair.

I certainly would not have been offended by your comments. Unless there's more to the story, I don't think you should feel guilty at all. JMHO.

 

[sha_lyn]

Yrs ago I picky up the phrase Ashy skin from an AA friend. I don't know if it is common slang for dry black skin, or a regional term. Anyway my AA friends would laugh when
I would say my skin was ashy.

 

[ford family]

A black person is a person of African descent however many generations he may be removed.

If you go back far enough everybody is of African descent because that it is where our species supposedly originated.

ford family

 

[pennst8r]

When my son was young and learning colors, he distinguished people by what color clothes they had on. He'd say " Look at the purple lady", etc. It was cute until we were in a store where an African American lady had on a black shirt.....yep, yelled it as loud as he could and was quite proud of himself for getting the color right! I was mortified!

 

[dis ms.]

When my son was young and learning colors, he distinguished people by what color clothes they had on. He'd say " Look at the purple lady", etc. It was cute until we were in a store where an African American lady had on a black shirt.....yep, yelled it as loud as he could and was quite proud of himself for getting the color right! I was mortified!

Okay, that's too cute! I bet you wanted to beam yourself out of that store, huh? Thanks for sharing that adorable story.

 

[luvthatduke]

Wow! From what you've written here, I don't see what you did that was bad enough to cause her to leave. You weren't criticizing "nappy" hair. In fact, you were paying black people a compliment by saying you had never seen a black person with bad hair. If anything, I suppose she could've taken the opportunity to "educate" you about black hair.

I certainly would not have been offended by your comments. Unless there's more to the story, I don't think you should feel guilty at all. JMHO.

Thanks! That's the reaction I would assume most people would have, also.
After I was able to get more info from a co-worker who told me that her "understanding" was that the girl had been "insulted" I began thinking about the girl's attitude towards me that particular night and subsequent ones before she left, after I attempted the conversation about hair.
In hindsight, I wonder if the girl maybe felt like, "Why are you asking me?" To be honest, that still wouldn't make much sense as I had always been friendly and enjoyed working with her and said so. She and I were both young, so perhaps even though I meant no harm in my conversation she was relating it to other, offensive comments made to her...

 

[grinningghost]

I prefer "black" rather than African-American. DH just laughs when people say African-Amercian. He doesn't look at us as true African-Americans. So we prefer black instead. Someone I know prefers being called Negro .

Interesting. I always wondered why all blacks are referred to as "African-American", when in fact, many black people come from places like Jamaica. Or did the Jamaican blacks originally come from Africa? I'm so confused.

I just always thought it was weird. It's like calling all white people "European-Americans", when some of them come from Australia. It's way too general.