For Disney Regs. Any noticeable changes in meal quality for any reataurants?

[leanan]

We always paid a premium price. Raising that price further to make up for the DDP was out of bounds. Lets be honest $27 for shrimp with pasta is more than a premium price. It is we know you are afraid to leave property price.

It is not just what they did in that aspect but what they have done to surrounding businesses. Have you seen 192 lately? It is destroyed because of the plan. Something Walt always feared. People are going to be less likely to leave property only raising their profits but ultimately those of us local will loose interest in a park that brought such poverty to our area. All those hotels on 192 are turning into rental slums. Sad but true.

 

[bicker]

What you didn't mention is that Disney raised the prices by 20%

No, not at all. There are a number of things that affect pricing. Perhaps the most significant is the fact that guests have far more disposable income, now. In bad economic times, leisure activities are severely under-priced, and leisure businesses suffer badly in terms of profitability. As the economy has greatly improved, leisure activities boost prices, just on the basis of more disposable income available.

 

[bicker]

It is not just what they did in that aspect but what they have done to surrounding businesses. Have you seen 192 lately? It is destroyed because of the plan. Something Walt always feared.

Actually, it was something Walt would have been pleased with. He hated the fact that businesses sprung up outside his parks, to sap away his revenue and add a less Disneyfied look to the entry to his parks. He built the Magic Kingdom four miles away from the entry to the property deliberately, so guests would be physically removed from any distracting aspects of the surrounding businesses.

 

[Leota]

We always paid a premium price. Raising that price further to make up for the DDP was out of bounds. Lets be honest $27 for shrimp with pasta is more than a premium price. It is we know you are afraid to leave property price.

It is not just what they did in that aspect but what they have done to surrounding businesses. Have you seen 192 lately? It is destroyed because of the plan. Something Walt always feared. People are going to be less likely to leave property only raising their profits but ultimately those of us local will loose interest in a park that brought such poverty to our area. All those hotels on 192 are turning into rental slums. Sad but true.

Well, the downward spiral of the Disney dining experience is prompting us to leave WDW property in search of better dining experiences. Since we have been going starting in 1993 (I don't count my only trip as a child), we have never felt the need to leave Disney property. For our October trip, we are making plans to eat offsite. We already eat many of our meals lately at the Swolphin restaurants because their quality hasn't declined. I know friends of mine have also chosen to eat more & more meals off property as well in response to what is happening on the dining front in WDW.

 

[Laura]

It is not just what they did in that aspect but what they have done to surrounding businesses. Have you seen 192 lately? It is destroyed because of the plan. Something Walt always feared. People are going to be less likely to leave property only raising their profits but ultimately those of us local will loose interest in a park that brought such poverty to our area. All those hotels on 192 are turning into rental slums. Sad but true.

No, this was something Walt expected from the experience of building Disneyland and the businesses that took over the surrounding orange groves. That's partly why so much land was bought for the Florida Project.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

It certainly will continue to work itself out at WDW but I am hopeful that eventually even the folks who believe they're getting the bargain basement deal will come to realize that you NEVER get something for nothing.

I know many of the DDP users state that the DDP has allowed them to eat at the Signatures that they'd otherwise never try, the folly being the only true thing they're getting from the Signatures now is the location. The menus have changed, the quality is not there and the service is not what it once was...So what Signature experience are they really getting??? There will be some who will rave about the meals, possibly doing so to validate their decision to use the meal plan (that's human nature) or honestly feeling these restaurants are the best they've ever eaten at...Imagine how they'd rave if they were still 100% in tact. This is all subjective speculation and only my opinion, of course.

RE: The DDP pricing, certainly we all know that many issues affect pricing but when locals have been given the 20% break with the DDP for a few years with no glitches, then in the span of a month Disney decides to offer the DDP to everyone immediately followed by a 20% across the board hike of prices, immediateley followed by the surge of marketing of the DDP's, well ... Coincidence? Maybe, but not bloody likely.

To end positively I will reiterate that it must say something to Disney's thinking that they did hire Chef Tim to take over FF instead of simply hiring from within or even consoloting Chef's perview or maintaining the status quo even longer (a kitchen being run by exisitng sous chef's).

 

[gina2000]

The bottom line here is that the slide toward mediocrity has begun. In the beginning, the new patrons will be amazed and dazzled at the DDP and what it offers. As time goes on, however, they will second guess some of what they are doing vis-a-vis the cost verses the quality they are receiving. Right now, this works for WDW. It fills rooms at rack rates, it delivers patrons to restaurants, it bolsters the bottom line and hopefully their vendors are happy. It may work out that vendors don't see the profit margins and decline to participate in the future. It may be that too many DDP patrons can't get ressies when they want them or where they want them and that will cause another set of problems. Or it may be the change is here to stay. Only time will tell.

In the meantime, WDW is happy, the new DDP patrons are happy and some of us are not. Let's see what the plan brings to the bottom line. Only then will people know if this is here to stay. In the meantime, there are a whole group of wonderful restaurants out there in Orlando waiting to be sampled.

 

[sotoalf]

For the record, we had two of our best meals at signature restaurants during our February trip. There was zero decline in the quality of service and food presentation at Citricos* or Artist Point. In fact, when we told the Citricos bartender about our superb meal at AP, he left to speak to the chef. "I let him know we have competition tonight," he said upon returning. When we were finally seated, the bartender actually brought samples for our entire table of some kind of truffle. And he wasn't even our waiter! This is what I call beyond the call of duty.

*Then again, Citricos has never been very popular, even before the DDP. Let's hope it stays that way.

 

[leanan]

Actually, it was something Walt would have been pleased with. He hated the fact that businesses sprung up outside his parks, to sap away his revenue and add a less Disneyfied look to the entry to his parks. He built the Magic Kingdom four miles away from the entry to the property deliberately, so guests would be physically removed from any distracting aspects of the surrounding businesses.

Unfortunately this is not what he wanted. His problem here is now 10 fold worse than it ever was at Disneyland. Abondoned empty hotels and weekly rental hotels was something he never imagined would be just on the edge of his property. The holiday inn is now a weekly rental place for poor people and transients. There are a couple of others on the strip like that. It is scary out there. I roll up my windows and lock all my doors. Something I have never done before on 192. Ugly is better than SCARY and ugly.

 

[sotoalf]

Let's also remember: these trends are cyclical. Until the early nineties WDW dining (with a few exceptions) used to be average at best. Restaurants weren't bastions of haute cuisine, or places in which new chefs experimented with recipes: they catered to the hungry park hopper who wanted a decent meal, nothing more. It's possible that Disney dining will reach its nadir in a few years, the company will make adjustments, and the attention will return.

Also, WDW was a lot smaller then – and there were a couple of dining plans too! With only a handful of Disney-owned resorts it was easier to concentrate on good things done well. I remember creative recipes at The Disney Inn's Garden Gallery and the Village Restaurant; and while we never ate at the Empress Room and Gulf Coast Room, friends often boasted of these restaurants' superior cuisine and service.

 

[mrsltg]

I read through this entire thread and several things come to mind-

1. Yes, there is a move toward standardization at the restaurants and bars. The lack of diversity at the bars really bothered my on my last trip.

2. Yes, Jiko has removed two items from its menu. The place has been there for about five years - I wouldn't jump into a conspiracy theory just yet. Disney is allowed to adjust the menus in its resturants. The food quality at jiko was excellent in December. My husband declared the lamb shank one of the best meals he's had - ever.

3. Yes, the restaurants are packed and that's good for Disney. I may be miffed about difficulty of getting ADRs, but frankly, it's not impossible and all it takes is a small amount of planning.

4. Portion size - are you kidding? I have seen so many complaints about portion size on this board lately. Seriously folks, look around - especially the next time you go to WDW - America is having an obesity epidemic. There is nothing wrong with a 6 oz piece of meat, a small serving of potato or rice, and a vegetable on the side. You do not need to eat until you feel like you need to vomit or until your pants are uncomfortable. I can comfortably share my meals with my 6 year old. I have yet to find a restaurant at Disney where I left feeling unsatisfied. I really don't think portion sizes are the problem, rather the American perception is completely out-of-whack.

5. DDP is here to stay - at least for the time being. People like it. People who weren't staying onsite before to eat are now doing so. Disney is getting $38/per day upfront and whether you eat or not, you're paying for it! It works for them. For me, I'll stick to more signature restaurants and other favorites I have developed over the years.

 

[bicker]

The bottom line here is that the slide toward mediocrity has begun.

I don't think it is any kind of slide to mediocrity. We're talking about a customer-facing business listening to its customers and doing what that want -- not what a few vocal ones say they want (talk is cheap), but doing what the customers as a whole really want. There has never been a time when what the general public wanted perfectly matched what every member of the general public wants, and there never will be. I personally would prefer the ticket price be doubled, solely to thin out the crowds. I can afford it, so I would like them to do it. However, it isn't practical to expect that they'll do what I say I want, or even what I personally really want.

In the beginning, the new patrons will be amazed and dazzled at the DDP and what it offers. As time goes on, however, they will second guess some of what they are doing vis-a-vis the cost verses the quality they are receiving.

Believe it or not, that's always been the case. I can remember discussions back in the late 1980, the mid 1990s, the early 2000s, etc., exactly like this one: A bunch of people saying things have gotten worse (because they changed) and a bunch of people saying things have gotten better, and a bunch of people saying that overall things haven't changed much -- and, most importantly, park attendance continues to climb, hotel load-levels continue to climb, division revenues continue to climb, etc. If this is what a "slide to mediocrity" sounds like, I sure wish every company would do it.

 

[bicker]

Until the early nineties WDW dining (with a few exceptions) used to be average at best. Restaurants weren't bastions of haute cuisine, or places in which new chefs experimented with recipes: they catered to the hungry park hopper who wanted a decent meal, nothing more.

A lot of folks forget that Dining at WDW used to be a really bad experience, back in the beginning. Indeed, I feel any assertion than dining was better in the 1970s that it is today is disingenuous, a product of nostalgic memory.

I do agree with you that this is somewhat cyclical, but the cycle isn't an independent one as you asserted. I believe the cycle is actually a cycle of customer preference, which varies over time, and the state of dining at the parks is just a reflection of that. Given that, I don't think we can expect to see regular zeniths and nadirs (as you put it) but rather perhaps what we've seen is a massive, head-strong climb-up from 1990 through 2000, perhaps stretching way beyond what guests really wanted. I remember how empty some of the best restaurants were in our 1999 trip. So what we're seeing now is perhaps just a normal, necessary, and appropriate correction. Perhaps there never was that much customer interest in haute cuisine at WDW, and so the reclassification of restaurants like Coral Reef and Le Cellier to casual dining is a natural reflection of reality.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

I don't think it is any kind of slide to mediocrity. We're talking about a customer-facing business listening to its customers and doing what that want -- not what a few vocal ones say they want (talk is cheap), but doing what the customers as a whole really want. There has never been a time when what the general public wanted perfectly matched what every member of the general public wants, and there never will be. I personally would prefer the ticket price be doubled, solely to thin out the crowds. I can afford it, so I would like them to do it. However, it isn't practical to expect that they'll do what I say I want, or even what I personally really want.

Believe it or not, that's always been the case. I can remember discussions back in the late 1980, the mid 1990s, the early 2000s, etc., exactly like this one: A bunch of people saying things have gotten worse (because they changed) and a bunch of people saying things have gotten better, and a bunch of people saying that overall things haven't changed much -- and, most importantly, park attendance continues to climb, hotel load-levels continue to climb, division revenues continue to climb, etc. If this is what a "slide to mediocrity" sounds like, I sure wish every company would do it.

Wow bicker. Have you ever posted withought demeaning someone? We disagree with your assertions so we're loudmouth antagonists pushing some evil agenda? Get some air, man.

Moderators, this has to stop. This has been a good discussion but evertime bicker posts the opposite side is grouped together and insulted.

Further your arguements are baseless. Who cares if you can afford and want park ticket prices increased? There is no logical analogy from this to declining food issues and still off topic but wrong Disney theme park attendance is still BELOW 9/11 figures.

 

[bicker]

I'm sorry, but it wasn't my intent to demean anyone. I'm expressing my opinion about this issue. I know you don't like my perspective, but please don't take my disagreement with you personally.

 

[gina2000]

Hey, thanks for quoting me! I was beginning to feel left out!

Truthfully, I do believe WDW's food has tended toward mediocre over the last few visits. I think they were at their best in the late 90's. And for the record, I always put my money where my mouth is. I totally enjoy the dining experience wherever I go. It's a huge, huge part of a vacation experience for me. But I'm truly not limited by on-site verses off-site venues. We've always been explorers and our exploration of WDW restaurants seems to be at an end....at least as an OOP diner. We'll just go and do what we please elsewhere. When we can't, we'll eat CS. I'm sure WDW won't miss us all that much.

However, that doesn't mean that in the long run they won't miss the accolades and the subsequent revenue good reviews produce. Locals and businessmen have always been a part of WDW's signature restaurant scene. That may change in the months to come. The question remains, "Does it matter?" And I think it does in the long run.

I'm also aware that WDW patrons have complained throughout the years about the consequences of change. I see a ton of changes at WDW, some for the better, some for the worse. I could pick apart meals, restrooms and CMs' attitudes should a thread arise that interests me. I could also heap accolades on many aspects of the WDW experience. But this thread, in particular, has asked regulars about their recent dining experiences and their opinions. Since WDW is trying to create an all-inclusive type atmosphere, the food had better live up to expectations or the all-inclusive part of the package revenue is lost. Right now it is for many. For others, it's not.

And all we're doing at this point is semantically picking apart posts phrase by phrase looking for an advantage. It's pretty counterproductive to say the least.

 

[sotoalf]

Whoever posted a little while ago about Disney's generous portions is right on. In fact, it's chain restaurants like Cheesecake Factory serving Hindenburg-sized portions that have spoiled us.

Wow bicker. Have you ever posted withought demeaning someone? We disagree with your assertions so we're loudmouth antagonists pushing some evil agenda? Get some air, man.

Nothing bicker has said is demeaning or insulting. She's refuting logic with logic. Maybe it's because he/she rarely uses emoticons?

 

[bicker]

And all we're doing at this point is semantically picking apart posts phrase by phrase looking for an advantage. It's pretty counterproductive to say the least.

I agree.

Nothing bicker has said is demeaning or insulting. She's refuting logic with logic. Maybe it's because he/she rarely uses emoticons?

Perhaps you're right. Maybe I should do a lot more emoticoning.

Incidentally: I'm a he:

I think this discussion is effectively over. I'll let those attacking me get the last word.

 

[jodifla]

A lot of folks forget that Dining at WDW used to be a really bad experience, back in the beginning. Indeed, I feel any assertion than dining was better in the 1970s that it is today is disingenuous, a product of nostalgic memory.

I do agree with you that this is somewhat cyclical, but the cycle isn't an independent one as you asserted. I believe the cycle is actually a cycle of customer preference, which varies over time, and the state of dining at the parks is just a reflection of that. Given that, I don't think we can expect to see regular zeniths and nadirs (as you put it) but rather perhaps what we've seen is a massive, head-strong climb-up from 1990 through 2000, perhaps stretching way beyond what guests really wanted. I remember how empty some of the best restaurants were in our 1999 trip. So what we're seeing now is perhaps just a normal, necessary, and appropriate correction. Perhaps there never was that much customer interest in haute cuisine at WDW, and so the reclassification of restaurants like Coral Reef and Le Cellier to casual dining is a natural reflection of reality.

I can't recall one person saying the food was good in the '70s.

We are saying it hit the glory days in the 90s, and the nasty, dreadful, horrible, terrible (you get the idea) DDP is dragging it back to '70s levels, because Disney is slashing all the good stuff out so people can have their "deals."

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

Perhaps I over reacted? If I mistook the sum of those statements as being demeaning then I apologize to everyone.

The fact is we're discussing the decline of dining at WDW. Not whether the DDP is successful.

There are more than a fair number of regulars here who can unequivicably state that dining is going downhill. There are a few long time regulars who disagree (and that's ok too) but the evidence that fine dining is on the decrease seems overwhelming.

I agree that this will be a cycle because at some point a certain number of guests, who will fit a trackable demographic, will prove to Disney that their fine dining is lacking and there is money to be made from catering to and pleasing that segment as well.