For Deluxe Fans ... Why Do You Opt NOT to Buy DVC?

[DisFlan]

I can understand why people do buy into DIS, I can see how it does work for people - what I don't understand is why they don't see who it doesn't work well for others

I defintely understand and appreciate why it doesn't work for everyone. Nothing works for everyone - that's why we all have a choice of where to stay. Enjoy your future trips!


DisFlan

 

[goofy4tink]

I defintely understand and appreciate why it doesn't work for everyone. Nothing works for everyone - that's why we all have a choice of where to stay. Enjoy your future trips!


DisFlan

I totally agree. Before we bought DVC, in 2003, we had tried the going to the beach vacations. But dh got really bored, really fast and would go back to the office and come back to the cottage on Thursay night. So, he never had time to decompress and relax. He's type A, so relaxing is hard for him. But, it was his idea to buy DVC. Now, he goes once a year and has a ball. There are days that he is happy to just hang at the pool or play minigolf with dd. Maybe go to a park for a few hours. So, for us...this is a terrific deal. The only way he will go on vacation with us. Expensive? Sure, but not any different than 2 weeks at the Cape....and he's not with us for 2/3 of the time.

I am currently planning a 5 night/6 day trip in late Oct '06. A 2 bedroom villa at BWV. The points will come to 189 for a Boardwalk view or 154 for a standard view. And that includes the high points of a Sat night. We started with 150 pts but bought 50 more before our first trip. If just my dd and I go we stay in a studio. If dh joins us, it's a 1 bdrm. We seldom use the kitchen for food prep. But it's nice to have it in case we want to cook. The trip I'm planning for '06 will include another mom and her dd...just the ladies. She insists on paying her share of the resort bill...what she gives me more than covers a year of dues/maint. fees.

I never worry about banking points!!!! I'm always borrowing a few from the next year..banking is not an issue for me. And I keep a notebook that I log all my pt. usage into so I can keep track of what I have each year.

I do enjoy staying at other resorts too. If I get a great rate someplace, I'll make a quickie trip down, especially if I have APs. And I try to stay at a different and untried resort on Fri and Sat nights. This way I save a few pts and get to try out those new resorts!!

Does DVC save me money? No. But, it does ensure that my family will take at least one good vacation a year. And I get to stay in a deluxe resort that I might not stay in since I would see the dollar amount for the week's stay...that would choke me!!! So, yes, we were 'suckered in' but we're happy. It works for us. Maybe not the best financial decision but sometimes it's not about the money......like the commercial says...priceless!!

 

[Jynohn]

We're eligible to stay at Shades of Green at terrific rates, so the decision to join DVC was really difficult for us. It was my last trip at SoG that finally tipped the scale for me. I agree with others who mentioned that it's just a little too much family togetherness to share one hotel room for a week or more. I get grumpy without a little personal space, not to mention that turning off the lights and tv at 8PM so my 5 year old will finally go to sleep isn't much fun for the rest of us.

Cooking on vacation isn't my idea of relaxing either, and I don't ever plan to be whipping up gourmet dinners while at WDW. However, it will be nice to have the kitchen if only to store some juice, milk and cereal in the room for breakfast, maybe an occasional frozen pizza, not to mention the refrigerator and microwave for all those great leftovers that would otherwise be thrown out.

What really sold me though is the fact that now I'm guaranteed to go to Disney World at least once a year This year alone I have a trip to Hilton Head planned, along with 10 days to WDW in January with the whole family and a week with just DH and I in September. I would never have dreamed of taking three big vacations in one year without DVC.

As far as missing the deluxe resorts, I figure that now I'll actually try more of them then I would otherwise. Without DVC I would have always stayed at SoG because I couldn't justify the cost of staying at a deluxe for a week or more. Now that the majority of my vacation is already paid for, I will be more likely to "splurge" on a few nights at a resort that I wouldn't have normally tried. In fact, we're spending 3 nights at the Wilderness cabins before we move to VWL this January. I'm really excited about that!

DVC isn't right for everyone, but it's definitely right for us!

 

[Montana Disney Fan]

My only regret to buying into DVC is not doing so via resale. IMHO, resale is the ONLY way to go. I really don't see ANY advantage to purchasing new.

 

[Alice in Cleveland]

Although I love WDW, I don't know if I will still love it there 10 years from now. I like taking a vacation there every other year or so. Sometimes, I even stay away for 2-3 years. It wouldn't be the best investment for us.

 

[CharlesTD]

We have been almost every year since 96 and just love the place we finally purchased DVC in 01 and regret not buying in 98 when we were at WDW for 3 weeks on our honeymoon. We love to cook our own meals on holidays that way we know what and how much the kids are eating rather than counter service etc. We do cereal in teh morning then make lunches to take wih us and cook our meals for when we get back to the room. Usually a roast in the crockpot or some spaghetti or lazagna stuff like that. We love not being bothered by mousekeeping every morning mind you we are usually gone before they get there. We are a value and moderate resort family we had no real desire to stay at a deluxe resort ever but with DVC we get to. We still go back to All Stars and CSR for weekends rather than use our points over teh weekend we now have 400 points and couldn't be happier. Our trips are always 2 weeks in length and it is a great break for the kids from school in the beginning of Dec and we love the decorations at WDW that time of year.

 

[goofie4goofy]

We like to vacation other places other than WDW. We have listened to the Disney spiel of time shares as well as the Marriott and Sheraton. I just don't think its a very good investment. And as others have said, I want to go when I want to and not worry about points and maintanence fees. Its just not our cup of tea.

We feel the exact same way. We go to WDW once sometimes twice per year and always stay GF RPC. We do travel to lots of other places as well. I know you can use your points for other places not just WDW, but the HOTELS listed did not interest us, and quite frankly are not worth the price of the points. It just does not make any sense as it is not a good investment for us either.

 

[DisFlan]

I totally agree. Before we bought DVC, in 2003, we had tried the going to the beach vacations. But dh got really bored, really fast and would go back to the office and come back to the cottage on Thursay night. So, he never had time to decompress and relax. He's type A, so relaxing is hard for him. But, it was his idea to buy DVC. Now, he goes once a year and has a ball. There are days that he is happy to just hang at the pool or play minigolf with dd. Maybe go to a park for a few hours. So, for us...this is a terrific deal. The only way he will go on vacation with us. Expensive? Sure, but not any different than 2 weeks at the Cape....and he's not with us for 2/3 of the time.

Same here! I love beach vacations, but my husband HATES them. He walks out on the sand, looks around and wants to know where the nearest golf course is. He thinks baking all day on ground up rock is the world's dumbest and most boring activity. And for him, swimming is considered a "survival maneuver".

We're both happy at WDW. He loves the courses there. (He uses his Goofy and Grumpy golf club head covers at home, too.) The hefty DVC golf discount is one of the things that convinced him DVC was a good deal.


DisFlan

 

[CharlesTD]

Same here! I love beach vacations, but my husband HATES them. He walks out on the sand, looks around and wants to know where the nearest golf course is. He thinks baking all day on ground up rock is the world's dumbest and most boring activity. And for him, swimming is considered a "survival maneuver".

We're both happy at WDW. He loves the courses there. (He uses his Goofy and Grumpy golf club head covers at home, too.) The hefty DVC golf discount is one of the things that convinced him DVC was a good deal.


DisFlan

Hating the beach must be a man thing because I can only bear going to the beach for about 2 or 3 hours then I am ready to leave. We have a cottage on Georgian Bay and it is on teh beach but we have a boat there and can do lots of fishing and many other things so it isn't to bad. We own our first contract at Disney's HHI and I have been to Hilton head once for a tennis camp and have no desire to ever return to the area.

 

[tlbwriter]

I totally agree. Before we bought DVC, in 2003, we had tried the going to the beach vacations. But dh got really bored, really fast and would go back to the office and come back to the cottage on Thursay night. So, he never had time to decompress and relax. He's type A, so relaxing is hard for him.

I can see where a WDW vacation would be better for a type A. So many things to accomplish!

My only regret to buying into DVC is not doing so via resale. IMHO, resale is the ONLY way to go. I really don't see ANY advantage to purchasing new.

From allearsnet.com:

What are the advantages in buying directly from Disney? How about through a reseller?

One advantage to buying directly from Disney is the occasional incentive program offered. The DVC periodically offers a "Magical Beginnings" program where you are eligible, with some restrictions, to sell back to Disney up to 100% of your first year's points to help offset the cost of purchase. (The specifics of this program change often. Check with a DVC guide for the most current information.) Other advantages are that Disney offers an attractive financing package with no prepayment penalty and that there are no closing costs involved when purchasing.

Advantages of buying through a reseller are that points may be available at the Old Key West Resort, the Boardwalk Villas, the Beach Club Villas or the Villas at the Wilderness Lodge, properties that are sold out if buying directly through the Disney Vacation Club. Also, when buying through a reseller, the price per point may be less than if buying directly through Disney.

 

[ufgator]

Although we go to WDW a lot, I don't want to be locked in to it. I like to go to different places too. I know you can go to other resorts in other cities, but I just don't like that you have to stay at certain places. Also, we don't have kids yet so we don't need extra space or a kitchen. I like having mousekeeping everyday. Plus, I don't want to spend that money up front. When we go there at different times, it doesn't seem like so much and it's spread out. If we choose not to go as much, we won't have to pay no matter what or deal with the hassle of trying to rent out our points. The main thing for me is I don't want to be locked in. This is an interesting thread.

 

[erikthewise]

This is a great thread and should be required reading for all potential DVC buyers.

We joined DVC in 2002 at BCV, and I'm very glad that we did. We have better accommodations than I would have thought we could ever afford, in a great location. But it's definitely not for everyone and there are some disadvantages.

One is the situation with beds. A deluxe resort room typically provides two queen beds and a day bed. A DVC studio provides one queen bed and a full-size sleeper sofa. This is OK for a couple, but for more than two people the studio provides inferior sleeping accommodations. A DVC one-bedroom suite has twice as much floor space, but provides only a king bed and a queen size sleeper sofa, which I still see as somewhat inferior to the bedding in a deluxe room. Even a DVC two bedroom "lockoff" (= 1BR + studio) with 1000+ sq ft will still only provide two actual beds! (except at Old Key West) Only with a "dedicated" two bedroom suite do you get two queens in addition to the king bed.

 

[CharlesTD]

This is a great thread and should be required reading for all potential DVC buyers.

We joined DVC in 2002 at BCV, and I'm very glad that we did. We have better accommodations than I would have thought we could ever afford, in a great location. But it's definitely not for everyone and there are some disadvantages.

One is the situation with beds. A deluxe resort room typically provides two queen beds and a day bed. A DVC studio provides one queen bed and a full-size sleeper sofa. This is OK for a couple, but for more than two people the studio provides inferior sleeping accommodations. A DVC one-bedroom suite has twice as much floor space, but provides only a king bed and a queen size sleeper sofa, which I still see as somewhat inferior to the bedding in a deluxe room. Even a DVC two bedroom "lockoff" (= 1BR + studio) with 1000+ sq ft will still only provide two actual beds! (except at Old Key West) Only with a "dedicated" two bedroom suite do you get two queens in addition to the king bed.

Old Key West offers 2 queen beds plus the kitchenette with microwave fridge coffee maker toaster and some utensils so IMHO DVC gives you more than a deluxe.

 

[DizWacko]

Yeah, thats if you like OKW. I find OKW to have a very bland, condo-like ambience. However, they are definitely the most spacious rooms on property.

The biggest reason we have DVC is to save money. However, no where in DVC do you have a great views (except MAYBE BWV) or exotic theming found at places the like the Poly/AKL ... and we are big view/ambience people.

 

[puffkin]

Very interesting thread!

We bought into DVC for several reasons:

1. We are starting a family and I wanted to guarantee that we could go on vacation to WDW every year with our kids. Prepaying our accomodations helps us come up with the money for a yearly trip.

2. Flexibility and options available with DVC. I like all the DVC properties. I like the point structure (as opposed to other timeshares with a set week). I like that we can trade out for non-Disney vacations (yes, not the best use of points, but it is an option if we really don't want to do Disney one year).

3. Relatively safe investment. I know that it is very unlikely that I will lose money on a DVC contract. If, in 25 years, when our kids are grown, we will should get back at least what we paid for the timeshare (plus have 25 years worth of vacation memories).

4. It saves us money. For instance, they are offering an SSR studio for $224 (or something like that) with the AP discount for December. That is approx. $250 with tax. We are staying at SSR for 6 nights for 77 points. 6 nights at a discounted rate are $1500 (6 x $250). Our annual dues for those 77 points are approx. approx. $300. Right there is a $1200 savings to put toward the initial purchase price, or roughly 1/10 of what it cost us to buy in.

5. There are some decent DVC discounts and special events out there. The AP discount is especially helpful and saved us $200 this year since we probably would have bought AP's anyway.

6. Not having to play the codes/AP discounts game each trip. I still look for them because we usually stay a few nights at a non-DVC resort, but if I can't get one, it isn't as big of a deal for a few nights as it would be for a week or longer vacation.

6. I know it is corny, but I like owning a "piece of the magic".

I think a lot of people are under the mistaken impression that they need to buy hundreds and hundreds of points to make DVC work for them. I like all the resorts, and we usually stay a few nights at a regular resort before switching to DVC. Just because you own DVC doesn't mean you have to use DVC each trip, if that makes sense. Some people would probably benefit from buying a small DVC contract and then banking/borrowing to stay DVC every other year or every third year. Then you could either pay cash to go on the off years, or go on non-Disney vacations. However, your initial and maintenance fees would be low, small contracts have good resale value (so lower risk) and you wouldn't be tied to Disney every year. Plus, you would be entitled to all the extra benefits of being a DVC member (you would really be getting the best of both worlds).

 

[erikthewise]

Old Key West offers 2 queen beds plus the kitchenette with microwave fridge coffee maker toaster and some utensils so IMHO DVC gives you more than a deluxe.

I am aware of the differences at OKW but just wanted to make a simple point about beds only. Thank you for pointing out the exception for those interested.

 

[lark]

No monorail is a biggie.

But the bottom line is that I just don't see the financial sense of purchasing DVC. I've thought about it a dozen ways, and since I wouldn't be able to pay cash outright -- I'd have to finance some -- the reality is that it makes no economic sense.

The reality is that the rental market is just too robust to make purchasing economically feasible. At $10 or even $9 a point for rentals, the "savings" that you realize as an owner paying $4 plus per point per year is about $5 to $6 per point. At $5 a point, it takes many many years to justify the cost of the points. (Say they are $85 per point -- that's the equivalent of paying 17 years of prepaid points. If you're also paying interest, tack on 7 to 12 more years.)

For example, suppose I want 200 points at BWV, and I get a smoking resale deal and disney does not exercise ROFR. At $85 per point, plus closing costs, I would go out of pocket about $17,550. Let's say I can put $7,550 down, but need to borrow $10,000. That's $700 more per year in interest for the first few years. My maintenance fees are about $770 a year. So I'm out of pocket $7,550, and I need to pay off the principal on another $10,000, plus $700 in interest every year. Or, in short, I'm out of pocket $17,750, plus $1470 each year (in interest payments and MFs.)

To rent 200 points each year costs me $2,000. So by purchasing, I save $500 each year -- which would take me over 30 years to recapture my investment. This number will go up each year as I pay off my loan, but even when it's fully paid off, I still only save $1230 a year. Even at $1230 per year, it takes me 14.3 years to recapture my investment -- and then I recapture it only if I use every single year and never let a single point lapse. If I rent my points one year, I'm just treading water.

Purchasing a timeshare that has an expiration date with a break even point of 15 to 30 years simply makes zero sense to me. The only justification I can see is the "owning a piece of the magic" justification. I fully respect people for whom this is a motivating factor -- but it's important to realize that this is why you're doing it.

Now, there are a few problems with my scenarios. (1) They assume the rental market will always be as robust as they are now. It could, of course, change, but currently you can pretty much get whatever you want on the rental market. (2) You absolutely have to be in a particular home DVC resort, and there is a danger that without the 11 month reservation period, you won't be able to rent that resort. Again, given the rental market and the ability to line people up 11 months in advance with the home resort you want to start calling, this is not a concern at present, but emphasis on "at present." (3) You have the personality that can stand doing rentals each year. Again, if this is not you, then forget everything above. For me, the trade off of dealing with renting every year is easily overcome by the flexibility of renting. You can go when you want, where you want, last minute, etc. You don't need to worry about banking, or not using points, or renting them out to others (which is a much bigger pain in the neck than being the renter).

Anyway, sorry for such a long winded post, but you asked . . . :0)

 

[Meezers]

I KNOW for a fact that if we had kitchen facilities and washer/dryer facilities my DM would feel like she "had" to cook or do laundry or whatever. We are a 3 adult family and there is NO WAY I am even going to chance DM feeling that way.

I think for couples with smaller children being able to eat breakfast and possibly some dinners....doing laundry and all that would make it a better idea for them....for us it just wouldn't be a vacation...DM would work her butt off!

 

[poohkinandpiglet]

We haven't bought DVC because we have been able to rent points for our Disney vacations. Althought we've had 3 Disney vacations in a little over a year we don't have another one planned for several more years. It's much more economical for us to rent points and not have to pay the annual maintenance fees associated with ownership.

 

[Suzanne74]

No monorail is a biggie.

But the bottom line is that I just don't see the financial sense of purchasing DVC. I've thought about it a dozen ways, and since I wouldn't be able to pay cash outright -- I'd have to finance some -- the reality is that it makes no economic sense.

The reality is that the rental market is just too robust to make purchasing economically feasible. At $10 or even $9 a point for rentals, the "savings" that you realize as an owner paying $4 plus per point per year is about $5 to $6 per point. At $5 a point, it takes many many years to justify the cost of the points. (Say they are $85 per point -- that's the equivalent of paying 17 years of prepaid points. If you're also paying interest, tack on 7 to 12 more years.)

For example, suppose I want 200 points at BWV, and I get a smoking resale deal and disney does not exercise ROFR. At $85 per point, plus closing costs, I would go out of pocket about $17,550. Let's say I can put $7,550 down, but need to borrow $10,000. That's $700 more per year in interest for the first few years. My maintenance fees are about $770 a year. So I'm out of pocket $7,550, and I need to pay off the principal on another $10,000, plus $700 in interest every year. Or, in short, I'm out of pocket $17,750, plus $1470 each year (in interest payments and MFs.)

To rent 200 points each year costs me $2,000. So by purchasing, I save $500 each year -- which would take me over 30 years to recapture my investment. This number will go up each year as I pay off my loan, but even when it's fully paid off, I still only save $1230 a year. Even at $1230 per year, it takes me 14.3 years to recapture my investment -- and then I recapture it only if I use every single year and never let a single point lapse. If I rent my points one year, I'm just treading water.

Purchasing a timeshare that has an expiration date with a break even point of 15 to 30 years simply makes zero sense to me. The only justification I can see is the "owning a piece of the magic" justification. I fully respect people for whom this is a motivating factor -- but it's important to realize that this is why you're doing it.

Now, there are a few problems with my scenarios. (1) They assume the rental market will always be as robust as they are now. It could, of course, change, but currently you can pretty much get whatever you want on the rental market. (2) You absolutely have to be in a particular home DVC resort, and there is a danger that without the 11 month reservation period, you won't be able to rent that resort. Again, given the rental market and the ability to line people up 11 months in advance with the home resort you want to start calling, this is not a concern at present, but emphasis on "at present." (3) You have the personality that can stand doing rentals each year. Again, if this is not you, then forget everything above. For me, the trade off of dealing with renting every year is easily overcome by the flexibility of renting. You can go when you want, where you want, last minute, etc. You don't need to worry about banking, or not using points, or renting them out to others (which is a much bigger pain in the neck than being the renter).

Anyway, sorry for such a long winded post, but you asked . . . :0)

lark - this is a VERY good post. My DH would be impressed Seriously though it does come down to someone who loves getting a piece of the magic, liking a kitchen, laundry etc... - I can understand why people do it but when DH and I crunched the numbers like you did above - he said no way and so did his business accountant. We spent the savings/money on a condo and no only do we rent for more then the mortgage but we have gained almost 50% equity in in less than 2 yrs. So I justify our newly found income to go towards Disney trips. BUT I can go whenever I want - wherever I want. Plus even at $10 for a rental - it is a good buy but I was offered $6 and $7 one time and jumped on it to OKW. Now this time we are doing the free dining - so excited!!

Anyway - great post!