For all you boycotters. .

[JAP]

Originally posted by DawnCt
Fictitious examples need to have some relevance. The example insinuates that there is no justification for the resumption of hostilities with Iraq. That is just plain wrong!

You are missing the point WillyJ is trying to make. He is not arguing the war. He was making statements about the way some people on the CB are treating posters that are from other nations.

I believe WillyJ's example was a good one. It was also relevant to the opinion he was trying to get across. There are some laypeople who will never understand other folks ideas or opinions.

 

[Steve H.]

Cathy -- I know it's been said many ways by many people, but try not to let the ignorant few ruin your day.

 

[helenabear]

Those who really know me will know I do not like to cause trouble here or say things that are 'controversial'. Nor do I like to display my opinions about anything relating to politics or religion. One thing I need to say though is that there are many threads and people who have made even ME as an AMERICAN very very unwelcome on this board. I have been around the DIS for about 4.5 years now and this has only happened one other time that I can think of.

I just wish that people would respect others opinions. I do not agree with about half of what was said on this thread, but I do not feel the need to hurt or belittle others for their thoughts.

There are many out there who are for and against this war. They each have their own reasons and that is fine with me. But because someone does not believe in the war does not mean that they are Anti-American nor do they not support the troops that are over there fighting. It's like if a friend of mine does an action that I do not agree with, but if they need a friend, I will not turn my back on them because they I do not agree with them. If they need me, I will stand by their side.

On the flip side people who are for the war are not hate mongers who just like to kill and fight. They have their reasons for wanting the war and again, that is great! That is their thought and their right. I know for a fact that war supporters aren't automatically the ones who hate the Canadians, French and anyone else who don't agree with the war.

I guess the point of my long ramble here is that we all need to THINK before we speak. Think about how your words could possibly hurt those around you whom you truly care about. It just bothers me to see a place like this full of such great people turn into a place where people are pitted against each other for political reasons. It's really sad and really hurtful to see.

Stepping off my soapbox now...

 

[betz]

I do not understand why only the French?
Why not all members of the Coalition of the Unwilling?

Coalition of the Willing: Afghanistan, Albania, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, Colombia, the Czech Republic, Denmark, El Salvador, Eritrea, Estonia, Ethiopia, Georgia, Hungary, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, the Netherlands, Nicaragua, the Philippines, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, South Korea, Spain, Turkey, the United Kingdom and Uzbekistan.

***Mr Powell said. "There are 15 other nations who for one reason or another do not yet wish to be publicly named but will be supporting the coalition." ***

Caolition of the Unwilling:
Algeria Andorra Angola Antigua and Barbuda Argentina Armenia Austria Bahamas Bahrain Bangladesh Barbados Belarus Belgium Belize Benin Bhutan Bolivia Bosnia-Herzegovina Botswana Brazil Brunei Burkina Faso Burma (Myanmar) Burundi Cambodia Cameroon Canada Cape Verde Central African Republic Chad Chile China Comoros Congo Costa Rica Croatia Cuba Cyprus Djibouti Dominica Dominican Republic Ecuador Egypt Equatorial Guinea Fiji Finland France Gabon Gambia Germany Ghana Greece Grenada Guatemala Guinea Guinea-Bissau Guyana Haiti Honduras Iceland India Indonesia Iran Iraq Ireland Israel Ivory Coast Jamaica Jordan Kazakstan Kenya Kuwait Kyrgyzstan Laos Lebanon Lesotho Liberia Libya Liechtenstein Luxembourg Madagascar Malawi Malaysia Maldives Mali Malta Marshall Islands Mauritania Mauritius Mexico Micronesia Moldavia Monaco Mongolia Morocco New Zealand Niger Nigeria North Korea Norway Oman Pakistan Palau - NA Panama Papua New Guinea Paraguay Peru Portugal Qatar Russia Rwanda Samoa American Samoa Western San Marino Saudi Arabia Senegal Seychelles Sierra Leone Singapore Slovenia Solomon Islands Somalia South Africa Sri Lanka St Christopher-Nevis St Lucia St Vincent and Grenadines Sudan Surinam Swaziland Sweden Syria Tajikistan Tanzania Thailand Togo Trinidad and Tobago Tunisia Turkmenistan Uganda Ukraine United Arab Emirates Uruguay Vanuatu Venezuela Vietnam Yemen Yugoslavia Zaire Zambia
Zimbabwe.

 

[LarryE]

it all makes me want to move to canada or france

us americans can be so judgemental at one time, then take them back under our wing a next

it's rediculous

 

[Briar Rose 7457]

Originally posted by DawnCt
Hitler-esque???? Better get out your history books. You are missing something. It is Saddam who is Hitler-esque!

Bush vs. Saddam


one seized power after a sham election and dragged his nation into war against the weight of world opinion...and the other is namedSaddam Hussein.


frankly I think we would have had to go into Iraq sooner or later to clean out that nest of vipers. I see a dangerous connection between Saddam, Bin Laden and the rise of Pan Arabism which espouses anti American and anti Zionist hatred. I like some of the iinsights in Zev Chafets column.

When Saddam goes, American forces will be sandwiched between two enemies. To the east, Iran, a charter member of the Axis of Evil. To the west, Syria, a new volunteer. Both will have to be defeated before this war is over.

but that doesn't prevent me from thinking that the President was ham handed and undiplomatic, and that he is creating anti American sentiment with his policies. no wonder the world -- and a good number of Americans -- feel this is a war of American aggression, that is's all about oil and water rights.

and I work 4 blocks from Ground Zero, by the way. I'm confronted with the results of 9/11 every working day.

 

[annemariec]

The title of the thread reads: For all you boycotters....

One of the last statements made by the OP, "... If not; then please lay off this racist; biggotted nonsense that is just hurting people here on the CB you don't really mean to hurt." was in context of boycotting.

Posters have stated he "meant" to target those people that were unkind to others. That may be the case but it isn't how it reads, IMHO. It's a blanket statement that is not very kind in itself.

I agree with Helenabear, whether you agree with someone or not you should not hurt or belittle others for their thoughts.

If the intent was to target a few, I think it would have been better to tell the offenders on an individual basis. PM those that are being hurtful, without the extremely harsh words. It's not helpful to sling mud all around. JMO.

Annemarie

 

[AllyandJack]

The "sham election" was decided by the Court. The Court is the same engine that gives you the right to speak out about the government. There is no Constitutional right to protest or speak out against our government - you merely have the right to peacable assembly and the right to petition for redress. The right to protest and speak out against our government was developed by the Courts, mainly in the cases that declared flag-burning "protected speech". If the election was a sham, so is the right to protest.

There will always be anti-American sentiment. The plot to kill us was being hatched when Clinton was in office. Bush didn't cause the sentiment, it has always been there and it always will. The best we can do is show people that they can hate us from afar, but try to come over here and hurt us and you'll get it right back. Call us aggressors, I don't care.....for once, we're defending and protecting ourselves. I, for one, don't want to sit here and wait for something else to happen. The latest poll shows almost 80% of Americans support the war....obviously not a good number believe it's about oil and water rights, it's a small minority.

I'm not boycotting anything, by the way.....I just don't see the point from my end. Much like the individual vote, the individual boycott doesn't really mean much. But, everybody can do what they want to do....it's all about how we each choose to get through these tough times. That doesn't make anyone a bigot or a racist or anything, everyone has different ways of dealing with their feelings of fear and anger, some boycott, some just choose to let it go. No one is right or wrong in this.

 

[glo]

Everyone has the right to their opinion. It is how it is stated, that affects others. Please think about your words in the heat of the moment.

You do not have to like our President or what is going on, but to say he is like Saddam is a stretch. Bush does not have our army killing American civillians. He has not lead through terror and fear. You do not have to like him, but please respect those who do. You still live in a place where you are aloud to speak your mind and live in freedom thanks to people like him and presidents past. Let's count our blessings that we don't live in places like Iraq.

I ask that you think before you type. Let's not divide and hate...because then we are no better.

 

[AllyandJack]

Cheers for glo!!

I think the people who compare Bush to Hitler or Bush to Saddam just don't know how good they have it. Maybe someday we really will have a leader like Hitler or Saddam and then they'll all be begging for Bush back. Hey...we can all hope for a Hitler or Saddam instead of Bush, can't we?

 

[Briar Rose 7457]

the election of 2000 was decided by a court that put political considerations ahead of sound legal doctrine. not quite the same as having a gun pointed to your head and being told vote for the only candidate on the ballot, of course, but the whole process left a bitter taste in an overwhelming number of voters. you will see a backlash from it in the election next year.

 

[Briar Rose 7457]

Originally posted by AllyandJack
Cheers for glo!!

I think the people who compare Bush to Hitler or Bush to Saddam just don't know how good they have it. Maybe someday we really will have a leader like Hitler or Saddam and then they'll all be begging for Bush back. Hey...we can all hope for a Hitler or Saddam instead of Bush, can't we?

 

[StampMom]

AllyandJack, in point of fact, there is a Constitutional right to free speech. Take a look at the First Amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

This is not to say that our courts are not important, but it's not really a fair comparison to say that if the election was a sham, so is the right to protest.

Now I'm off to eat some French Fries and Canadian bacon, while I listen to the Dixie Chicks......

 

[madonna31]

Like Cathy, I am Canadian and I too no longer feel *welcome* here...

I find it discusting that I am being judged personally by CERTAIN members on the CB about the choices my government has made...

In the past 24 hours - I have been told that Canadians are not *intelligent enough to use computers*, that *either your country is with us or against us, therefore I will be boycotting the Canadian pavillion at Epcot* and my personal favourite *Canadians said that the US DESERVED 9/11*?!?

I really wish that these people would do some research before opening their BIG YAPS around here...our goverment may not support this war - but most of our people and military do!!! FOR THE LAST TIME:

OTTAWA - Ottawa now admits that some Canadian soldiers are in Iraq, even though Canada refused to join the U.S.-led war against Saddam Hussein.

Thirty-one Canadians are with U.S. and British troops in the Gulf as part of a military exchange, and a British army officer told CBC News that some of the Canadians are in combat.

For days the federal government has refused to disclose any information about the Canadian soldiers in the Gulf.

The federal government is apparently prepared to accept the risk that some of its soldiers could be killed or captured, in a war that Canada refused to join.

 

[Teejay32]

Wow, again!

I thought helenabear's post was very good.

I have dual citizenship, here and in Iceland. Betz's representation of my (other) country as either unwilling or in a "coalition" with the likes of Iraq itself or whatever is wrong. Canada's position seems to be along the same lines. I'm also not very patriotic, I'm not sure how to be patriotic in my case...that's not indicative of a person, is it? I'm a strong supporter of this action in Iraq and I recall taking crap from the OP himself about it, so much for tolerance and understanding. I agree the media is fueling this stuff...particularly with 'polls' about how this one or that one feels about 9/11, that serves no purpose except to inflame.

I also have strong familial ties to Nova Scotia, and much as I'd like to boycott my Grandma sometimes, it's still probably not the right thing to do.

Well that's about it...someone would have to draw me a map to tell what and whose side I'm on, so I think I'll just get some laundry done...

 

[AllyandJack]

I think the vast majority of people have gotten over it already (since the vast majority of people are supporting Bush) and the election next year will be decided based on who is running.

Wasn't that Court put together by the Clinton Administration over 8 years? You'd think their political agenda would have leaned toward Gore.

There is a constitutional right to freedom of SPEECH, but it is the COURT who determines how far-reaching that freedom goes. Just like the right to privacy. The court is forever changing what the right entails.

 

[Briar Rose 7457]

first of all, the court that decided the 2000 election had 5 Republican appointees and 4 Democratic appointees. the court's decision was very much along party lines. the 5 who fored the majoirty opinion almost always favor state's rights over federal law, but in the Bush v. Gore case trampled over Florida state law and adopted a much more federalist approached that was intellectually dishonest in light of their prior positions and decisions. most legal scholars -- even those who agree with the decision -- will recognize the flaws in it.

you're also misreading the polls. while most Americans support the war, the President's popularity has been decliniing. right now he's got about a 62% approval rating. http://www.pollingreport.com/BushJob.htm

the elder President Bush was very popular in 1991 during the Persian Gulf War. Yet he lost the election to Bill Clinton.

 

[Saffron]

annmariec -- maybe WillyJ should have replaced the word "nonsense" with "comments" or "jokes", maybe that would make sense then? That's what he was targetting. The comments, jokes and singling out of one or two nations to degrade. It seems a country's political stance on the war in Iraq has given some people the chance to say some nasty things about the people. They're not taking on the government of those countries, they making fun of and belittling the people of those countries. Here's an example. It was in answer to a question someone asked about how Canadians are being treated in the USA, if they were being denied food and fuel by people boycotting all things Canadian, because she had heard some stories and wanted to know if they were true. One poster was stating that he hasn't seen any Canadians being mistreated and then said this, "... although I refuse to sell computers to Canadians because they are not sophisticated enough to use them..."

Sometimes people aren't clear in what they post. I'm guilty of that and have to clarify what I mean at times. Those that know WillyJ, and read the remarks and jokes made about Canada and France and read the hurt that others are going through because of it, know what he meant. But -- in any case, he came back on page two and clarified things. Anyone who has any doubts about what he meant, please read that post.

Robinrs - I really liked your post.

And DawnCT -- this thread is about the racist views being vocalized on the board. I'm sure WillyJ will argue the politics of the war with you up on the war board as soon as he gets a chance. He can pick apart the post you posted where you told him he failed, and show you where you failed.

 

[Robinrs]

Originally posted by AllyandJack
I think the vast majority of people have gotten over it already (since the vast majority of people are supporting Bush) and the election next year will be decided based on who is running.

I haven't and never will but since I am USED to being a member of a "minority" it doesn't matter to me. On the other hand, those people who are NEVER polled, including people like me and the thousands that think like me, will remember to vote next year.

 

[AllyandJack]

I just wanted to chime in and say that I think it's terrible that citizens of certain places are being treated badly by citizens of other places. Kids being booed at hockey games, people afraid to travel to Disney World and other places. It's just sick. Our governments may not agree, but WE are not the government. We're just people. And WE may disagree, but how dull would life be if all just agreed?? These Boards probably wouldn't exist and then what would I do in between preparing documents??

I don't think I'll ever get over the fact that a bunch of people in MA voted to keep the income tax! Sheesh!! You have 2 choices...taxes or no taxes...people picked taxes!