For $2 Billion Disney could have built 16 major attractions instead of fast pass+

[freediverdude]

You don't have to be so literal. I'm not talking about a monetary cost.

To be clear: I feel that we are being short changed by this situation because new projects have been delayed or cancelled altogether. We gave this company our loyalty, these trips mean a lot to many of us, and we would like to continue looking forward to wonderful trips in the future.

Is that such an unreasonable way to think and feel? If you want to think it is, fine. But it doesn't change the perception of many who feel that they have been loyal, repeat customers who have given this company lots of money, helping them build their empire, only to have them pull the rug out from under us.

Like it or not, repeat customers have that loyalty because they are emotionally invested in the product. A company can't have it both ways; they can't reap the benefits of customer loyalty, and then disappoint the expectations of those people.

If I'm not happy, I should just take my vacation dollar elsewhere, you say. Why am I and others being given a "heads you lose, tails you lose" choice? People are naturally upset when given two unpalatable options.

Crappy option #1: Keep paying higher and higher prices for a diminished experience.
Crappy option #2: Give up on your favorite vacation destination, and go somewhere you won't like as much.

Honestly, I hope they prove me wrong. I hope they can install their pet IT system and still improve capacity in their parks. I hope I won't give up on theme parks because they've become a raw deal. To me, sitting and frying on a beach somewhere is not a vacation.

I've already basically given up on Disney for the time being. This year I took two trips to Universal instead, staying at their onsite resorts instead. Maybe I will reconsider another trip to Disney when they open that new area of Animal Kingdom, or a new area at the Studios, but probably not until then. And I've had either an annual pass or premium annual pass every year since 1998, and taken multiple resort stay trips every year as well.

 

[jade1]

Maybe that system fits your touring plan. But since you post on these boards, you're probably a loyal return customer anyway, Jade.

Yes I am, and one that usually was left with zero FP- because we do non park events in the AM.

So this new system is millions of times better for us.

Is what I'm saying a fact? No, it's my opinion. That's what we do on these boards, we post opinions. But, judging from the large number of posters who hate FP+ and miss Legacy FP, my opinion is backed up pretty well.

This is not a court of law. We don't have to prove our points beyond a reasonable doubt. We can go with an opinion when we have good reason to believe it. I've read countless posts on this subject, and it's pretty clear to me that the majority of Disney's most loyal, repeat customers loved the old FP system. The new one? Tolerated, at best.

Just look at all the "just came back, hate FP+" style threads. I've seen very few threads stating the opposite.

I think there is a rule of thumb on how loud/often someone complains to others (like a message board) when they are dissatisfied about something, compared to somebody happy/satisfied about something.

 

[jade1]

Sometimes, it even helped us get into attractions like TSMM when we arrived in late afternoon. In the past, the Legacy Fast Passes would have been long gone.

Agree 100%

 

[jade1]

Like it or not, repeat customers have that loyalty because they are emotionally invested in the product. A company can't have it both ways; they can't reap the benefits of customer loyalty, and then disappoint the expectations of those people.

Again, I am in that loyal group-and it's a huge improvement for us sorry.

 

[jade1]

Jade1, I'm with you...I've been a LOYAL Disney customer since 1976...probably before some of these posters were even born. I personally love the idea of FP+...it allows us to do other things in the morning besides rush to the park of the day for RD and a continuous trek criss crossing the park to get FP- tickets OR show up later in the day and have little chance at any FP- and spend lots of time waiting in lines. We leave in 3 days for Disney and I'm pretty pumped that I can play golf on Tuesday morning and still go to a park in the afternoon at do 3 attractions of my choice with little wait. That's awesome!! All my years going to WDW for a vaction, I could never understand the idea that it was only successful if I did lots of rides over and over to get as much done as I could. What kind of vacation is that? And what evidence is there that more people want to rush around and ride rides than relax and have a chance to do a few things they really want to do? It's all a Journey into Someone's Imagination that they think everyone else thinks like them...because 1 tenth of 1 percent of Disney guests have posted a negative comment about FP+ on some site

Exactly us as well.

Besides golf morning, fishing morning is also a favorite day of ours that is now even much better with FP+ waiting for us. Both were a park "write-off" day for us with FP-, we still went in but just super long headliner waits.

And actually US/IOA day is a great day as well-we come back and hit a park that night as well, now that will be an amazing day to stop back for the 3 Mountains and Wishes.

We are even planning a Clearwater Beach day (a favorite spot of ours)-leave around 9AM and get over there at 11AM and hit the beach, hit Frenchy's for an early dinner and be back to a park that evening with the FP+'s waiting.

Character Brunch will be really relaxed as well.

Also arrival day now we have FP+ waiting as well-never a great park day in past. Nice to be there-but way better now.

Departure day as well-we always fly back in the evening to extend our stay as long as possible. Now we can pack, check out, send our bags on ME and hit TSM/TOT/ST mid afternoon before catching ME.

 

[Laketravis]

No argument that's convenient. It really is. But for what?

Let's put that part in perspective: Soarin and Figment and EO?

Seriously? Sometimes I question if it's even worth the walk from the gate to two of those......which never needed an FP to begin with.

 

[CampbellzSoup]

I don't buy the myth that what we say on message boards is somehow irrelevant. We may not represent the average Disney guest, but we do represent the most loyal, repeat customers. In other words, Disney's core clientele, the ones who will come back and are not just making a "once in a lifetime" or "once every ten years" pilgrimage to the mecca of theme parks.

I've met countless people who tell me they went to WDW 10/15/20 years ago, and have no intention of going back because they've "been there, done that." Those aren't the people who keep Disney afloat; we are.

You /we probably make up .05 of disneys total marketshare of those who go to parks.

 

[Laketravis]

You /we probably make up .05 of disneys total marketshare of those who go to parks.

Last week I sat outside that area you are dumped into when you get off of Spaceship Earth. Because DW and DS were off doing something else, I probably spent a good 30 minutes sitting on the benches that face the wall that they project the faces of riders and the globe on.

You know how that display takes their face shot and dots it to what area of the globe they are from before deleting it? I was really surprised at how many of those guests were from Florida. I would say damn near half of them.

I observed somewhat the same at any inter-active venue we attended. Hoop De Doo Review, Turtle Talk with Crush, whatever - so many Florida guests.

 

[Davey Jones II]

You /we probably make up .05 of disneys total marketshare of those who go to parks.

I didn't say we make up a large percentage. I said we represent the most loyal customers. There's a difference.

Collectively, it's safe to say that our opinions speak for the more loyal, repeat theme park guests. It's well known that some Disney insiders read these boards. Why would they do so if we were nothing more than an irrelevant fringe group? This much free feedback is very valuable, especially to a service oriented company.

 

[famy27]

No argument that's convenient. It really is. But for what?

Let's put that part in perspective: Soarin and Figment and EO?

Seriously? Sometimes I question if it's even worth the walk from the gate to two of those......which never needed an FP to begin with.

Agreed. The tier 2s are so worthless to me that I've cancelled them on my last two trips so that I can get a shot at TT or a second Soarin' ride sooner.


And for those that think first-timers love it, I really don't get that. Everyone I've talked to who isn't a hardcore Disney fan is pretty much flabbergasted by the thought of booking rides two months in advance. They look at me like I'm making things up when I mention it. So, I highly doubt all of those people are sitting at their computers at 12:01 am to book FPs. This system favors the informed more than paper ever did.

I completely understand that WDW need to upgrade its IT infrastructure. We had a festive experience with early ticket pick up in 2010. The computers weren't playing nicely with each other. That all needed to be fixed. But that is a huge cash outlay. I'm sure Disney was reluctant to spend the necessary cash until someone came up with the idea of trying to turn IT infrastructure upgrading into a profit-generating scenario. I would have been perfectly happy had they spent $500 million on the nuts and bolts IT and $1.5 billion on new attractions. I suspect that would have made them more money over the long term, but I guess there is no way to know for sure.

Do we know what parts of MM ran way over budget? Was it the hardware (like the doors and tapstiles), FP+, additional staffing, something else? That would be interesting information.

 

[over50visits]

You simply can not compare the Japan park to WDW …

My experience there was mind boggling….the Japanese culture and service and attention to detail is night and day…head over heals…
The worst CM at Disney Sea (if you could actually find one who wouldn't loose their job for repeated complaints or infractions) are/is so beyond the rank and file in the USA…its cultural. Its just the way it is. Even if they built an exact copy of Disney Sea at WDW they could never in a million years duplicate the guest experience when it came to interacting with CMs on a par with Japan.

Could it be the customers there are less entitled, more respectful of others, less demanding than those at WDW? I am really just guessing, but I bet both employees and customers ("CMs and guests") there are much happier because of their shared attitude.

 

[SCDisneyfanatic]

Davey Jones II...Your argument doesn't hold water. First of all, you would need a definitive set of criteria to describe "Most loyal" before you could make a broad statement like people on these boards are the most loyal. I had never been on a board in my life until May 2014 and I consider myself a very loyal WDW supporter. Second, assuming we could identify loyal supporters, you have no idea how many loyal supporters that come on this particular site agree with your take on the situation. You assume your opinion represents the majority of people that visit or post here. Bottom Line: you are guilty of using Faulty Logic. I'm pretty sure your Philosophy Professor would be very disappointed!

 

[Gumbo4x4]

No argument that's convenient. It really is. But for what?

Let's put that part in perspective: Soarin and Figment and EO?

Seriously? Sometimes I question if it's even worth the walk from the gate to two of those......which never needed an FP to begin with.

Including 2nd & 3rd tier rides in FP+ is what really burns me on the whole thing. I got in a 40 minute standby line for Soarin. It didn't kill me. But I also practically walked on Living With The Land half a dozen times in a day - in the Summer. Don't know if that'll ever be possible again.

 

[tim123]

Could it be the customers there are less entitled, more respectful of others, less demanding than those at WDW? I am really just guessing, but I bet both employees and customers ("CMs and guests") there are much happier because of their shared attitude.

Its cultural. I'm generalizing but Asian people in general do not put others in a position of 'losing face'..hense you wouldn't see at Tokyo Disney some adult chastising a CM over something in a manner that is common place in WDW…nor will you see people clamoring to get to a character who by the way roam around freely throughout TDR…People are patient and step back so families can take pictures. That is also not to say the The Japanese aren't kookoo for all things Disney…they run like mad at rope drop to Toy Story. The two parks there are jammed….2 even three hour waits sometimes…people just wait in line patiently and have fun with friends..80% a a TDR park are teenage girls in school blazers and dressed to the max in Disney…

Its hard to explain you would have to visit to understand which I highly recommend doing. Its an other world entirely from what we experience at WDW…very few overweight people, fewer strollers, never saw a scooter…

But its the staff and their total dedication to the brand that is something to see.
My Japan Disney Films to see for yourself…

I think Im turning Japanese
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7brMX8Y9sk
Japan Disney
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIFx6gvqfys

 

[newdeal]

There is absolutely no way that FP+ actually cost $2 billion. Not even close.

There is a whole lot that had to go into that though. Networking, servers, kiosks, terminals, cast members, the logistics of getting that system retrofitted into the parks must have been a nightmare. Would have been far easier if the park was designed for that kind of network. The entire resort had to be networked to what must be an enormous and complicated server

 

[ethanwa]

I have no problem with FP+. In fact, our family loves it and I'm glad Disney did this.

Like someone else mentioned, you can't just build more and more attractions and be stuck in the past. It just doesn't work that way in business. You have to "keep moving forward" as Walt says.

Look at what has happened with newspapers, in-home telephones, black and white TV's, hand-cranked cars, etc etc etc. You can't just let your business be stuck in the dark ages of technology. That is how you die. SO many businesses die because they can't keep up.

I'm sorry, but your $2 billion for 16 attractions argument just doesn't fly with me.

Doubters, just face this hard fact: You're afraid of change.

And one more thing: FP+ and MyMagic+ is here to stay. Get used to it.

 

[HulkBuster]

the usual tired generalizatiuns realy add to the convursation

 

[BrianL]

I
Collectively, it's safe to say that our opinions speak for the more loyal, repeat theme park guests.

You may be right that we, the Dis Posters, are a fairly representative sample of loyal guests, but considering all the dissention even here on the boards, what does it prove? Not all loyal guests fit into one bucket and share your opinion. Many of us like FP+ to varying degrees in addition to those who dislike it strongly. Those who dislike it are probably the more vocal segment, but they certainly do not represent all loyal guests.

 

[Hokie2000]

Emotions aside...

The parks are packed. FP+ has done little or nothing to improve capacity. Disney is raking in outrageous profits. Bottom line: I'm saying that they should use a chunk of those profits to improve real capacity, so that all these guests making them richer than King Croesus won't have to wait in endless lines most of the time (except when they have an FP+ reservation).

Now, that's unreasonable?

All I can really share is my own experience, so I'll try to explain how I feel about the situation so you can maybe understand my perspective.

I've already had to drastically change my touring style and expectations of WDW trips, long before FP+, when I took my oldest son for the first time. He was 1 1/2 years old and I was pregnant w/ my second, as you can imagine that trip was WAY different from previous trips when I went as a footloose and fancy-free teenager/20-something. I couldn't ride any thrill rides (my favorites); instead I did things I wouldn't have done before: riding the train, riding Peoplemover over and over, duck-watching, character m&gs, spending lots of time in the Baby Centers - the list goes on. You know what I happily discovered? I still loved WDW! So I kept going back, pregnant, with infants in tow, w/ three children under 5 - and it was still awesome every time.

It's so much more than rides to me, it's still my favorite place. So what if I don't ride everything? I'll plan as well as I can, try to stay flexible since traveling w/ small kids is sooooo unpredictable, try to keep a positive attitude regardless of the circumstances and have fun. The same as every trip I've ever taken w/ my kids - WDW or not!

 

[Laketravis]

...That is also not to say the The Japanese aren't kookoo for all things Disney…they run like mad at rope drop to Toy Story. The two parks there are jammed….2 even three hour waits sometimes…people just wait in line patiently and have fun with friends..80% a a TDR park are teenage girls in school blazers and dressed to the max in Disney…

Makes me wonder why they didn't beta MM/FP+ in that park first, since queuing conditions sound similar but it would have been a somewhat smaller scale with a more tolerant and possibly willing guest population.