Flying vs. Driving...What price difference makes it worth it to you to drive?

[vacationclub]

I don't want to debate it any more but one thing in this post caught my eye. It sounds like you're saying the OP said it would cost $400 to drive. Didn't they say it would cost them $400 MORE to fly than drive ? Not $400 to drive. Since we don't have the OP's details, it's hard to know what was factored in and what wasn't at this point.

Great point. That's why I asked the OP exactly that in my first post. We don't really know how they arrived at $400. So yes, my sentence about "$400 more than the OP" should be dis-regarded. Just edited it.

 

[3 MEN AND A BOAT]

They allow .555 because that is the average cost. So why isn't it a "true" cost? It's only an inflated amount if you're driving a vehicle that is more efficient, with less maintenance, and less deprecation that the "average" car. Some peole might have this situation, some might not.

Its not the true cost because if it doesn't actually cost you that amount out of pocket then it's not a true cost because I doubt they are deducting they're trip travel to Disney. I drive a 12mpg van, regularly change oil, keep up with all necessary maintenance, and keep micheline tires on it and it's still profitable for me to take the standard .555 over itemizing it out. Most cars get better mpg so they would not have the out of pocket expense with the drive.

So you're saying the IRS gives you more than you need? Stop the presses! Every mile you drive contributes to: Oil and all other fluid and filter changes, brake wear, tire wear, battery wear, wheel bearing and various suspension wear, general engine wear, exposure to weather that fades and rusts, and depreciation of the car's resale value......not just how much gas you pumped to drive to Disney[/QUOTE]
Like I posted above, my van earns more $ in deductions then it costs me to purchase and operate.
I personally don't worry over the everyday wear and tear or depreciated value of my personal vehicle as the is the purpose I bought it for.

Even if you're driving the most efficient, least depreciating, lowest maintenance car on the road, and you only need about .25/mile, that still adds to more than the $400 claimed by the OP....not including all the other factors I mentioned such as risk, time, comfort, food cost, responsibility.

Fly.[/QUOTE]
Hears where it just comes down to a personnal choice, because I consider those expenses as part of the trip, to me the drive is half the fun, I've flown and just didn't enjoy the experience as much. I'm probably an oddity but the layover on our flight was the best part, I like to meander about at my own pace.
But if it's strictly a budget thing you do have to account for eveything

 

[3BoysRDisneyFreaks]

the savings for me has to be a lot. My sanity for vacation is worth a ton.

We fly or don't go.


Sarah

 

[Desnik]

For me a $400 difference is not enough, I would fly.

For our Xmas trip (Dec 22-28) the round trip airfare for our family of 4 is $2800. To drive is $300-$350 in gas and about a 17-18 hour drive. To me that savings is worth it to drive. Plus we won't have to deal with the airports during Xmas week!

 

[vacationclub]

Its not the true cost because if it doesn't actually cost you that amount out of pocket then it's not a true cost because I doubt they are deducting they're trip travel to Disney.

What does deducting it have to do with anything? If it were deductible travel then it suddenly IS a true cost? If I bought a garage door that cost $500, and it turns out it wasn't deductible, didn't it still cost $500 either way?

And how do you know that it doesn't actually cost you that amount out of pocket? Have you done long term studies, accumulated data, compared research? Are you saying the IRS....that has done this research, is just making up a number that has nothing to do with reality?

I drive a 12mpg van, regularly change oil, keep up with all necessary maintenance, and keep micheline tires on it and it's still profitable for me to take the standard .555 over itemizing it out.

Yea, until you need a major repair. You can only determine what your REAL cost over time really is by comparing data....over time. You're simply playing the odds and winning, apparently not incurring enough costly maintenance over the deduction use period to demand the $.555 that you were allowed.

Most cars get better mpg so they would not have the out of pocket expense with the drive.

You mean they would just have less that you do.

Like I posted above, my van earns more $ in deductions then it costs me to purchase and operate.

That's not legally possible. You either deduct the cost of the vehicle as a section 179 OR take the mileage use deduction, not both.

I
I personally don't worry over the everyday wear and tear or depreciated value of my personal vehicle as the is the purpose I bought it for.

Whether or not you worry about it or not, it still exists. But ignorance is bliss I guess.

Hears where it just comes down to a personnal choice, because I consider those expenses as part of the trip,

Sure, if you want to add those expenses to add those experiences. If you're not interested in those extra experiences, and want to use your your money and time more efficiently, that's a different decision. And I believe that's the decision the OP is getting at, regardless of the extra meandering time that some people may want to pay extra for.

 

[Lavaluma]

For a $400 difference, I'd fly. We live in Northrn Virginia and we were in the same situation in November. We decided to fly. We figured in the long run after all the stops and probably at least a hotel stay either on the way there or on the way back, it wouldn't be that much of a price difference. it's a lot easier to keep my kids entertained flying than hearing fighting and "when will we be there" the entire car ride. Also, flying is quicker, less tiring and bathroom breaks don't require an extra half an hour stop.

 

[3 MEN AND A BOAT]

What does deducting it have to do with anything? If it were deductible travel then it suddenly IS a true cost? If I bought a garage door that cost $500, and it turns out it wasn't deductible, didn't it still cost $500 either way?

And how do you know that it doesn't actually cost you that amount out of pocket? Have you done long term studies, accumulated data, compared research? Are you saying the IRS....that has done this research, is just making up a number that has nothing to do with reality?

Yea, until you need a major repair. You can only determine what your REAL cost over time really is by comparing data....over time. You're simply playing the odds and winning, apparently not incurring enough costly maintenance over the deduction use period to demand the $.555 that you were allowed.

You mean they would just have less that you do.

That's not legally possible. You either deduct the cost of the vehicle as a section 179 OR take the mileage use deduction, not both.

Whether or not you worry about it or not, it still exists. But ignorance is bliss I guess.

Sure, if you want to add those expenses to add those experiences. If you're not interested in those extra experiences, and want to use your your money and time more efficiently, that's a different decision. And I believe that's the decision the OP is getting at, regardless of the extra meandering time that some people may want to pay extra for.

The reason it's not always the true cost is because it doesn't cost most people $555 to drive 1000 miles
I don't have to do a long term study to know what my expenses are
I also never said I take both depreciated value and the standard, I've watched the difference and the .555 is always the better deal for me
I have no idea were the IRS comes up with their numbers

 

[sharadoc]

Okay, answering your question from a time and not a certified public accountant perspective

For us, we will drive for a few hundred dollars less, but it's usually significant enough to matter. It's about a $1,000 savings when you factor in the parking or limo service to and from our home airport.

It's not just two hours to fly. It's also 1.5 hours TO the airport, 2 hours in advance of departure for security, boarding and flying, landing and getting to ME, driving to WDW. That rounds out to about 8 hours.

We plan our trips when we have the time - usually 2 weeks in the summer, so we can travel the two days back and forth and not take away from our Disney time. We wouldn't add those extra days on the front and back that we drive, that would cost a LOT more in the hotels, tickets and food cost, so flying or driving would still be the same number of days at WDW.

In essence, driving is an extra 8 hours on the road over the flying time. And yes driving is statistically less safe than flying, but there's no such thing as a fender bender in the sky!

 

[vacationclub]

The reason it's not always the true cost is because it doesn't cost most people $555 to drive 1000 miles

You're right, for most people it actually costs more than that....

http://newsroom.aaa.com/2012/04/cos...ing-to-aaa’s-2012-‘your-driving-costs’-study/

I don't have to do a long term study to know what my expenses are

The long term study was about the average costs of ALL cars....not just yours. But you actually do need to take into consideration costs over the long term that include only occasional costs....like repairs, otherwise a yearly tally may seem low. You may not pay during the year you drove 2500 miles to Orlando, but you just got that much closer to a big bill later on.

I also never said I take both depreciated value and the standard, I've watched the difference and the .555 is always the better deal for me

You said "my van earns more $ in deductions then it costs me to purchase and operate". It can only earn deductions for how much it costs to purchase (Section 179) OR how much costs to operate (mileage decduction) and not both like you indicated with you used the word "and".
http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=250882,00.html

I have no idea were the IRS comes up with their numbers

But you have decided they are not accurate anyway?

I'm sure AAA knows nothing about cars either.

 

[3 MEN AND A BOAT]

You're right, for most people it actually costs more than that....

http://newsroom.aaa.com/2012/04/cost-of-owning-and-operating-vehicle-in-u-s-increased-1-9-percent-according-to-aaa’s-2012-‘your-driving-costs’-study/

]
For me it has always been less

The long term study was about the average costs of ALL cars....not just yours. But you actually do need to take into consideration costs over the long term that include only occasional costs....like repairs, otherwise a yearly tally may seem low. You may not pay during the year you drove 2500 miles to Orlando, but you just got that much closer to a big bill later on.

The average was what I was trying to get at earlier in the post that if the OP car got better mpg it's quite possibly on the lower cost end of the average so using the .555 as how to figure your cost to drive isn't the true cost, its an average some cost more but some cost less.

You said "my van earns more $ in deductions then it costs me to purchase and operate". It can only earn deductions for how much it costs to purchase (Section 179) OR how much costs to operate (mileage decduction) and not both like you indicated with you used the word "and".
http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=250882,00.html

But you have decided they are not accurate anyway?

I'm sure AAA knows nothing about cars either.

The purchase and operate was simply stating that just because I take the mileage deduction doesn't mean I haven't added up my out of pocket costs over the year. Once you start with cost/depreciation it's my understanding you stay with that the life of that car, you can't cherry pick back and fourth, so I keep track of both for my own knowledge, ive done this for the life of several vehicles so I know what's best for me with my next vehicle. My current cargo van has 215,000 miles and it still hasn't actually cost more to operate than I get for mileage. Again I've averaged the cost over several vehicles.
It's not that their inaccurate, their an average, HINT HIGHS AND LOWS
AAA again these are all averagess, on the low side are compact cars but on the high side are semi trucks that will drag that average up, I've never said its best for everyone but if my work vehicles get between 8-15 mpg and the mileage is still the better deal, chances are strong most drive more fuel efficient vehicles theirfore the mileage would be even more beneficial to them.

I'm out I've had enough eyeroll smileys

 

[vacationclub]

]
For me it has always been less

Then, according to AAA and IRS, you are an anomaly, or are ignoring factors (like the ones you admitted to ignoring)

]
The average was what I was trying to get at earlier in the post that if the OP car got better mpg it's quite possibly on the lower cost end of the average so using the .555 as how to figure your cost to drive isn't the true cost, its an average some cost more but some cost less.

Did you look at the link? Yes, it's an average. So, if you are in the average, that IS your true cost. You seem to have knowledge that the OP drives a Geo Prism.

]
The purchase and operate was simply stating that just because I take the mileage deduction doesn't mean I haven't added up my out of pocket costs over the year. Once you start with cost/depreciation it's my understanding you stay with that the life of that car, you can't cherry pick back and fourth, so I keep track of both for my own knowledge, ive done this for the life of several vehicles so I know what's best for me with my next vehicle. My current cargo van has 215,000 miles and it still hasn't actually cost more to operate than I get for mileage. Again I've averaged the cost over several vehicles.

I think I just didn't interpret your sentence as it was written. I get what you are saying now. As a long haul user of a vehicle, you are really pushing up the average especially if you do a lot of miles in a shorter time. This is not average usage, though, so your situation is not average.

]
It's not that their inaccurate, their an average, HINT HIGHS AND LOWS

Yes, it's an average. You're saying that those averages, and the ones the AAA has come up with....are not "real costs". So, you're saying they are not accurate.

]
AAA again these are all averagess, on the low side are compact cars but on the high side are semi trucks that will drag that average up, I've never said its best for everyone but if my work vehicles get between 8-15 mpg and the mileage is still the better deal, chances are strong most drive more fuel efficient vehicles theirfore the mileage would be even more beneficial to them.

Of course, but this has nothing to do with your "real costs" logic. The costs are the costs are the costs. Assuming the OP has a standard sedan, then the costs I quoted, and you dispute, are...according to the AAA and the IRS....REAL COSTS. You seem to be implying that the OP has a special "way lower than average advantage" that we don't know about.

Just because something is based on an average doesn't mean its not an ACCURATE average.

 

[3 MEN AND A BOAT]

Then, according to AAA and IRS, you are an anomaly, or are ignoring factors (like the ones you admitted to ignoring)

Did you look at the link? Yes, it's an average. So, if you are in the average, that IS your true cost. You seem to have knowledge that the OP drives a Geo Prism.

I think I just didn't interpret your sentence as it was written. I get what you are saying now. As a long haul user of a vehicle, you are really pushing up the average especially if you do a lot of miles in a shorter time. This is not average usage, though, so your situation is not average.

Yes, it's an average. You're saying that those averages, and the ones the AAA has come up with....are not "real costs". So, you're saying they are not accurate.

Of course, but this has nothing to do with your "real costs" logic. The costs are the costs are the costs. Assuming the OP has a standard sedan, then the costs I quoted, and you dispute, are...according to the AAA and the IRS....REAL COSTS. You seem to be implying that the OP has a special "way lower than average advantage" that we don't know about.

Just because something is based on an average doesn't mean its not an ACCURATE average.

What have I admitted to ignoring?

I don't know what the OP drives, someone earlier used the IRS mileage deduction as a comparison of cost between driving and flying. I don't think that's an accurate application for this type of comparison, because as stated before its an average.

Believe me I'll admit I'm terrible at explaining things, even worse when using an I-phone to type.

Yes I do a lot of driving 45-60,000 miles a year per vehicle.

The average is over such a large group that a person has to look at it from their own perspective. Price of gas, tires, repair cost could vary greatly from a high to a low cost of living area.

 

[Nomad70]

We drive, but then we are only about a 6 hour drive. When we lived in Tennessee we also drove. And when we lived in California we went to Disneyland, which was only an hour and a half away. We enjoy a good road trip too. As a military family who has moved several times in the past 20 years we have clocked thousands of miles. We just drove from lower Alabama, up through NY and over the northern US and up into Alaska in late 2010 (we took a month to do that trip), then this past January we did the return trip in 15 days. I have to say after about day 12 it starts to wear even on the most seasoned traveler. lol But, we will still drive anywhere.

 

[vacationclub]

What have I admitted to ignoring?

This...

I personally don't worry over the everyday wear and tear or depreciated value of my personal vehicle

I don't know what the OP drives,

Then how can you say that the averages that are used as the basis for these costs DON'T APPLY. For all we know, the OP is HIGHER than average.

someone earlier used the IRS mileage deduction as a comparison of cost between driving and flying. I don't think that's an accurate application for this type of comparison, because as stated before its an average.

So what? Average means it COULD apply to you...and as I pointed out with the AAA link, the average is for using a sedan. Can we safely assume that the OP, and MANY other drivers, use a sedan? Otherwise, your logic is that these averages do not apply because we know the OP is well below average, but we don't know that. And even IF WE DID, there are still significant costs, just less than my quoted "average".

Yes I do a lot of driving 45-60,000 miles a year per vehicle.

That explains your anomaly. The averages are for average drivers, you are not. The OP is likely to be one (that's why it's called average).

The average is over such a large group that a person has to look at it from their own perspective. Price of gas, tires, repair cost could vary greatly from a high to a low cost of living area.

Yes, I know how averages work.
That means it's likely that the OP is somewhere in that area, but we don't know for sure. You continue to maintain, without any statements from the OP, that my figures are not correct for both the OP, and potentially anyone, because the OP must be driving some super below average vehicle which defies the cost curve...not just the average....and that they will only have half of that average, even though AAA puts the lowest number at .449, no where near your suggested possible estimate of .25.

 

[3 MEN AND A BOAT]

This...

Then how can you say that the averages that are used as the basis for these costs DON'T APPLY. For all we know, the OP is HIGHER than average.

SO WHAT? Average means it COULD apply to you...and as I pointed out with the AAA link, the average is for AVERAGE drivers, using a sedan. Can we safely assume that the OP, and MANY other drivers, use a sedan? Otherwise, your logic is that these averages do not apply because we know the OP is below average, but we don't know that. And even IF WE DID, there are still significant costs not being accounted for, just less than my quoted "average".

That explains your anomaly. The averages are for average drivers, you are not. The OP is likely to be one (that's why it's called average).

Yes, I know how averages work.
That means it's likely that the OP is somewhere in that area, but we don't know for sure. You continue to maintain, without any statements from the OP, that my figures are not correct for both the OP, and potentially anyone, because the OP must be driving some super below average vehicle which defies the cost curve...not just the average....and that they will only have half of that average, even though AAA puts the lowest number at .449, no where near your suggested possible estimate of .25.

I don't worry over my personal vehicles depreciation (its not deductible anyway)because I bought it to get me where I'm going, it's personal transportation. I'll give you that point though.

I don't know what the OP drives, I was simply trying to explain that without knowing what the OP drives they can't just blindly apply the average.

I just threw .25 out their as an example to make the point that .555 was an average,

 

[vacationclub]

I don't worry over my personal vehicles depreciation (its not deductible anyway)because I bought it to get me where I'm going, it's personal transportation. I'll give you that point though.

I don't know what the OP drives, I was simply trying to explain that without knowing what the OP drives they can't just blindly apply the average.

I just threw .25 out their as an example to make the point that .555 was an average,

Your depreciation IS deductible, it's figured into the mileage allowance. For every mile you drive, you have depreciated your car.

Yes, we don't know what the OP drives, but can we safely assume that it's somewhere near the average which is based on driving a sedan? And can we safely assume that .25 is not likely?

And, can we now put to rest your initial assertion that....

the IRS depreciational cost is about 0.51 a mile but thats their figure because most people that deduct vehicle cost use trucks that get 10-15 mpg so if your vehicle gets better your actual cost won't be that high.

....because the AAA figures clearly show different.

 

[3 MEN AND A BOAT]

Yes, we don't know what the OP drives, but can we safely assume that it's somewhere near the average which is based on driving a sedan? And can we safely assume that .25 is not likely?

And, can we now put to rest your initial assertion that....

....because the AAA figures clearly show different.

I agree that .25 is not likely but if .555 is the average someone, somewhere has a vehicle that's costing less than .555

As I've said my van that gets 12mpg costs me less to own/operate then the mileage deduction, so someone with a sedan that would get better is going to be even better.

I'll agree we've spun off into an entirely different debate then my original comment was directed.

I don't think it's fair to say it'll cost you $555 for every 1000 miles you drive on vac in vehicle cost alone.

 

[3 MEN AND A BOAT]

Your depreciation IS deductible, it's figured into the mileage allowance. For every mile you drive, you have depreciated your car.

.

Didn't see this when I 1st responded but I don't think personal vehicle mileage is deductible, it has to be used for work purposes.

 

[LekiaHall]

Thanks for all of the great feedback. Sorry to have posted and ran. To answer some questions:

-We are a family of 6

Flying
-Lowest ticket from DCA-MCO is currently at $188, including taxes.
-We would need a full-size SUV/mini-van; I'm budgeting $400 for the rental car & gas when we get to Orlando.
So, total for flying is roughly $1528....let's say $1600.
We would not need to pay to park...I have family in DC who can handle drop-off/pick-up. The airport is approx 20 minutes from my relative's home.

Driving
We would not drive our own vehicle. We would rent a full-size SUV/mini-van. Cost is roughly $900. I'm budgeting $300 for gas (that's probably too low). Also $200 for hotels (there and back) and $100 for food on the road.
Driving cost at $1500.


I'm now realizing the price savings is even less!!! Am I missing something?

 

[sam_gordon]

Thanks for all of the great feedback. Sorry to have posted and ran. To answer some questions:

-We are a family of 6

Flying
-Lowest ticket from DCA-MCO is currently at $188, including taxes.
-We would need a full-size SUV/mini-van; I'm budgeting $400 for the rental car & gas when we get to Orlando.
So, total for flying is roughly $1528....let's say $1600.
We would not need to pay to park...I have family in DC who can handle drop-off/pick-up. The airport is approx 20 minutes from my relative's home.

Driving
We would not drive our own vehicle. We would rent a full-size SUV/mini-van. Cost is roughly $900. I'm budgeting $300 for gas (that's probably too low). Also $200 for hotels (there and back) and $100 for food on the road.
Driving cost at $1500.


I'm now realizing the price savings is even less!!! Am I missing something?

Assuming your numbers are accurate, I'm not sure what you'd be missing. What's affecting the 'Drive' amount is that you'd need to rent a vehicle. Your rental amount is almost the amount of the plane ticket.

BTW, would using DME be an option? That cuts $400 out of the "fly" number.