Flight of Passage + People of Size = Disappointing

[ArwenMarie]

2 reasons this is an issue:

Disney has the reputation for smart ride design. Other places, not so much. Universal, for instance, does two types of seats for a coaster and forbidden journey because they realized the restraint on the original ones doesn't even fit the average American adult comfortably. Other coasters are designed to fit a wider range of bodies; a coaster at my "home" theme park has restraints that ratchet according to resistance.

There is no consistency. It's completely arbitrary. Even at Disney, you can't entirely argue safety. I have absolutely no problem on expedition Everest; it's super uncomfortable to ride mine train. Mine train is a kiddy ride. There is absolutely no reason that should be uncomfortable for anyone.

Second reason: people are specifically upset about this because "Pooh guests" are a demographic specific to Disney. These people probably can't ride a lot of rides at a local theme park. They might feel left out there. They go to Disney because it is a happy place for them. They feel included. Same thing with handicapped guests, multiple generational families, pregnant women. Disney has this inclusive reputation and they do intentionally cater to a wide variety of people, which I would argue Universal and Six Flags do not. So while I definitely agree that not everyone will be able to ride every ride, I also agree with the folks who are pointing out that the ride designer probably could have made it a bit more friendly to more people.

Mine Train has a height restriction of 38 inches which means kids as small as 40 lbs or less are riding that. At some point there will be people who can't ride it comfortably because it needs to make sure the littlest ones are secure as well

 

[DisneyOma]

I am not Pooh sized but have personally witnessed what my larger friends have gone through on many occasions. In a big city. It really is unbelievable until you witness it yourself.

Sometimes the mean kids at school grow out of their meanness. Sometimes they just become mean adults.

They do - and it doesn't help when the media broadcasts how much everyone's health insurance goes up "because of these fat people" and shows video of morbidly obese people (from the neck down) walking around, eating, etc. Heaven forbid people walk, eat. Ugh! Can you imagine how it would feel to realize they used you in one of those video clips? I mean, people recognize themselves from the neck down, know what clothes they wore, etc.

The restraint system is totally different. And as much as we can agree it stinks that some people of size cannot ride Flight of Passage, none of us can say for sure why the restraint system is as it is. None of us are engineers that built the ride. I could complain that with my bad knees there is no way I can ride and Disney should have designed it differently. You can't always make rides that suit every person. I look at that ride system, say nope won't work for me, and move on. It stinks but it is what it is. They won't redesign it now.

I agree - they won't redesign the whole thing. They may tweak a few settings, but not a strip-out redesign.

I believe WDW made FoP to feel as close to a real 'flight' ride as possible - you are on the back of a banshee, and a shoulder harness would not make sense. Also, those shoulder harnesses can limit who can ride as well.

 

[bashuck]

I have rode it twice (its awesome) and i imagine they feel they have optimized it for the vast majority. I wouldn't want them to make it less enjoyable for the masses to be able to accommodate literally everyone, but if they could have a setting for a few of the seats to be more 'adjustable' without having it clearly worse for more typical sized people that would seem reasonable. I think if you are of a size that can maneuver around the park on foot you should be able to ride.

 

[LilyWDW]

The restraint system is totally different. And as much as we can agree it stinks that some people of size cannot ride Flight of Passage, none of us can say for sure why the restraint system is as it is. None of us are engineers that built the ride. I could complain that with my bad knees there is no way I can ride and Disney should have designed it differently. You can't always make rides that suit every person. I look at that ride system, say nope won't work for me, and move on. It stinks but it is what it is. They won't redesign it now.

Exactly. No one here designed the rides and knows the requirements for the system. No one here can truly say why things are the way they are. Anyone who is saying otherwise is just making it up.

 

[yulilin3]

This is one of those Disney can't win moments.
They could've gone with the tried and true vehicles, regular roller coaster, maybe a Soarin mechanism, a simulator vehicle like ST, but they decided to try something different and make it thrilling but still include some kids. So now some people can't ride (at the moment) and that is unfortunate.
Flip side if they had done the tried and true they would be accused of not trying anything new (like they are with NRJ)
I am sure the designers of the attraction are looking at data and seeing if changes to it will be necessary or not.
And I do have a couple of friends that have not been able to ride, both have told me they knew they would not fit and they were ok with that, but of course not everyone is going to react the same way and that I can understand

 

[jsmla]

Has someone posted figures somewhere regarding percentage of riders turned away? I'm just curious as to where the strong notion of seat design allowing a subpar percentage of guests to ride is coming from. I have seen some anecdotal reports, but nothing more.

I feel this is getting overblown. As I've mentioned earlier in the thread, the vehicle was designed to accommodate an extremely high percentage of guests and, so far, that goal percentage has been exceeded. That percentage is very high.

Anecdotally, in the number of times I've ridden (double digits), the number of people I've seen turned away is precisely zero.

Yes, some people will not be able to ride due to size, anatomical variation, etc., but that is the case with the vast majority of rides across all theme parks - especially those of the "thrill" variety.

I would think that nature of this thread will naturally skew the responses. On my own I (and I'm guessing most others who don't have to deal with this issue) would just scroll past it and on to the latest FastPass thread. DH has only recently lost 75 pounds so the size/ride thing is still fresh.

 

[Westcoastwild]

Mine Train has a height restriction of 38 inches which means kids as small as 40 lbs or less are riding that. At some point there will be people who can't ride it comfortably because it needs to make sure the littlest ones are secure as well

Again, nothing to do with safety. It's not how far the lap bar comes down, it's the width of the actual lap bar and the leg room. It's the design that makes it uncomfortable.

I'm not saying it needs to fit everyone, but it's not my weight that is the culprit. It's that I'm 5'8 with long legs and you can't tell me that's freakishly tall. Thunder mountain is 40 inches- if a double bar can work on that train, why, pray tell, did mine train need molded single seats and single lap bars to support a minimum height of only 2 inches shorter?

 

[Pawpsicle]

Again, nothing to do with safety. It's not how far the lap bar comes down, it's the width of the actual lap bar and the leg room. It's the design that makes it uncomfortable.

I'm not saying it needs to fit everyone, but it's not my weight that is the culprit. It's that I'm 5'8 with long legs and you can't tell me that's freakishly tall. Thunder mountain is 40 inches- if a double bar can work on that train, why, pray tell, did mine train need molded single seats and single lap bars to support a minimum height of only 2 inches shorter?

Agree that SDMT is rough. I'm 5'10' with long legs and one that doesn't bend very well. After my last painful ride, decided I was done with it for good! The seats may be individual due to the swinging bucket style of the cars. I wonder if it might tip if everyone was able to lean to one side.

 

[Westcoastwild]

Agree that SDMT is rough. I'm 5'10' with long legs and one that doesn't bend very well. After my last painful ride, decided I was done with it for good! The seats may be individual due to the swinging bucket style of the cars. I wonder if it might tip if everyone was able to lean to one side.

Huh. Hadn't thought of it that way. Maybe? Though it seems like it would be inherently unsafe design given that it is a train. And they don't weight load it like an old ferries wheel. But even then, we're right back to ride design. It looks cool BUT they could have designed the whole train differently so it wouldn't be an issue. I don't know who they used as an adult model for that train. It's clearly meant to be a family ride, not just a kiddie coaster, and 5'8-10 isn't really tall for even a woman, let alone a man.

 

[wilkeliza]

Again, nothing to do with safety. It's not how far the lap bar comes down, it's the width of the actual lap bar and the leg room. It's the design that makes it uncomfortable.

I'm not saying it needs to fit everyone, but it's not my weight that is the culprit. It's that I'm 5'8 with long legs and you can't tell me that's freakishly tall. Thunder mountain is 40 inches- if a double bar can work on that train, why, pray tell, did mine train need molded single seats and single lap bars to support a minimum height of only 2 inches shorter?

2 different ride vehicles. BTMRR has cars of 2 rows linked together on the rail and the vehicle itself is stable. 7DMT has a pendulum seat that sways independly of what the other cars it is attached are doing. So the U bar is there so in the event someone gets the cart to swing to its max side to side a child is just as secure as the adult next to them.

Also theme park safety and knowledge of customer actions is completely different now then when BTMRR was designed.

 

[yulilin3]

Agree that SDMT is rough. I'm 5'10' with long legs and one that doesn't bend very well. After my last painful ride, decided I was done with it for good! The seats may be individual due to the swinging bucket style of the cars. I wonder if it might tip if everyone was able to lean to one side.

that's what I'm thinking as well. The rocking motion might have something to do with vehicle design

 

[Spridell]

Maybe recheck your book? May I ask why you think someone's legs wouldn't swell after potentially walking miles in a single day?

I was saying this happens all the time to people and a CM using the excuse your legs swelled and cant ride, is whats not going to work.

 

[Westcoastwild]

that's what I'm thinking as well. The rocking motion might have something to do with vehicle design

Likely, but I don't really think it adds significantly to the ride. So I still think they could have looked at it and said "you know, maybe it would be better to reign it with a little more leg room". Or they could have done a different restraint system entirely. No real reason it has to be a lap bar.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

that's what I'm thinking as well. The rocking motion might have something to do with vehicle design

My assumption with all of these rides is that there are well justified reasons for these designs. We don't have to understand them. We just need to trust that Disney is still Disney, and that means that they are trying their best to be as inclusive as possible while achieving the best possible ride experience for their guests. That is all that any of us can realistically expect.

 

[wilkeliza]

Likely, but I don't really think it adds significantly to the ride. So I still think they could have looked at it and said "you know, maybe it would be better to reign it with a little more leg room". Or they could have done a different restraint system entirely. No real reason it has to be a lap bar.

There has to be some sort of restraint system. R bars were the original design. Unfortunately after the vehicles were already msde an accident happened at another theme park with a R bar system and it was determined regular lap bars and R bars are not fool proof (I'll admit I've stood yes stood on BTMRR on drops before) so they changed to a U bar which keeps you in more. They unfortunately are restrictive because track was already laid and cars were already built when the change happened.

 

[Westcoastwild]

There has to be some sort of restraint system. R bars were the original design. Unfortunately after the vehicles were already msde an accident happened at another theme park with a R bar system and it was determined regular lap bars and R bars are not fool proof (I'll admit I've stood yes stood on BTMRR on drops before) so they changed to a U bar which keeps you in more. They unfortunately are restrictive because track was already laid and cars were already built when the change happened.

I see! Ok, that makes a lot of sense. The first time I rode it I wondered why on earth it seemed like the bars were a last minute adaptation.

It's still rideable for me. I like the ride. It's just on the uncomfortable side.

 

[Ashley Nadeau]

My fiance has to wear braces on his legs for support, would this restraint beable to go around a brace? They are made of a plastic, transparent material and wrap around his foot to his knees.

 

[wilkeliza]

My fiance has to wear braces on his legs for support, would this restraint beable to go around a brace? They are made of a plastic, transparent material and wrap around his foot to his knees.

The restraint doesn't actually go around anything. As long as he can still bend his knee and ankle he should be fine. If be can't bend his ankle have him try the tester sest so he can know what position he needs to sit in before getting to the load area. That will help a lot with the loading.

 

[Ashley Nadeau]

The restraint doesn't actually go around anything. As long as he can still bend his knee and ankle he should be fine. If be can't bend his ankle have him try the tester sest so he can know what position he needs to sit in before getting to the load area. That will help a lot with the loading.

Thank you so much! He can bend his knees and ankles! He really wants to try this ride, but he is also 6' 1" and 280 pounds. We are hoping he can ride it ok!

 

[wilkeliza]

Thank you so much! He can bend his knees and ankles! He really wants to try this ride, but he is also 6' 1" and 280 pounds. We are hoping he can ride it ok!

He should be okay. My fiance is 5'11" and around the same weight (maybe 10 pounds more can't remember) and he rode just fine. Again might be worth trying the test seat but you should be okay.