Flash compensation question - please help

DoleWhipDVC

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While using my 50mm 1.8 canon lens on my Canon 40D, along with a 430EXII speedlight, I adjusted the flash compensation down -2 in manual mode. Now it won't move back from that setting. Every time I push the set button on top of the camera the flash compensation meter allows me to move the indicator through the range, but when I take the actual shot, the meter is reading -2 compensation and blinking. Even if I scroll all the way up to +2, it still shoots at -2. I have attached all my other lenses and they are shooting at whatever setting I indicate for flash. But the 50 just goes right back to-2. This is happening with both the pop-up and my speedlight. This is not happening in the AV mode or the TV mode. I am using ETTL. Can anyone tell me what is happening? I feel like I'm going to have to shoot this 50mm on auto or sport if I can't figure this out. Any info would be greatly appreciated:confused3
 
I don't know about Canon, but on Nikon you can set flash exposure compensation on the camera and on the flash itself. Try checking both.
 
I shoot Nikon, so I can't help you specifically, but the first thing I would do would be to take the batteries out of both the camera and the flash and then replace them and then retry. There might also be a menu option within the camera that will let you reset the default factory settings...
 
On my Canon (Xsi with 220EX) the flash exposure compensation is only in the menus (the second set from the right, not to be confused with the second star on the right) and the setting is done with the SET button and the left/right buttons.

The exposure compensation button on the top only sets the overall exposure compensation.
 

What shutter speed are you using when your camera is in manual? Your camera may be telling you that the image you just shot is underexposed with the settings you chose. Compare the EXIF data of an image that gives you problems with that of an image that's not. I'm guessing that your shutter speed is faster than the sync speed and when you're in AV mode it automatically fixes that. This is a long shot, because I thought that when you use a dedicated TTL flash it wouldn't let you select a shutter speed beyond the sync speed.
 
What shutter speed are you using when your camera is in manual? Your camera may be telling you that the image you just shot is underexposed with the settings you chose. Compare the EXIF data of an image that gives you problems with that of an image that's not. I'm guessing that your shutter speed is faster than the sync speed and when you're in AV mode it automatically fixes that. This is a long shot, because I thought that when you use a dedicated TTL flash it wouldn't let you select a shutter speed beyond the sync speed.

The thing is she says this is just happening with just one particular lens. The rest are fine.
 
What shutter speed are you using when your camera is in manual? Your camera may be telling you that the image you just shot is underexposed with the settings you chose. Compare the EXIF data of an image that gives you problems with that of an image that's not. I'm guessing that your shutter speed is faster than the sync speed and when you're in AV mode it automatically fixes that. This is a long shot, because I thought that when you use a dedicated TTL flash it wouldn't let you select a shutter speed beyond the sync speed.

Yes, I thought of this and checked, but I had the shutter at 250 which is the max speed for the flash capability. Also, you are right that if I had set that factor to fast, the 40D automatically adjusts to 250 when using flash. I know I can go to the menu feature to re-set everything to factory settings but this is just wierd. I shot a child's activity event last night using the 50mm and a Tamron 10-24 wide angle. The Tamron worked great and went up and down the flash compensation scale with no problems. The 50 didn't want to come off that -2 compensation setting. Sure, I can just play with the ISO to compensate for the flash but do I really want to? So strange, I'm sure there is something I'm missing or not considering within the camera's capabilities. All the shots are coming out o.k. light-wise with adjustments but, honestly, this is freaky!!
 
The thing is she says this is just happening with just one particular lens. The rest are fine.

Yeah, that's the strange part. I don't think it's a matter of the camera being faulty. I believe it is doing something it's supposed to but I can't figure it out. I've checked the manual and racked my brain.... what am I missing? :confused3
 
Sound like a lens problem. The fact that the meter flashes "-2" doesn't necessarily mean that exposure compensation or flash exposure compensation is dialed in. Some cameras flash like that to tell you that its meter thinks the shot you just took is underexposed. The reason for the underexposure could be the lens.

For a moment I thought that it could either be a communication problem, for which I'd recommend cleaning the contacts of both the camera and the lens. Then I thought it could be a problem with the aperture mechanism inside the lens. If it's stopping down more than it should or is getting stuck, then that could cause the problem you're describing. The only problem with this theory is that you said the problem doesn't happen when you shoot in Av or Tv mode.

I think you need to do controlled testing, taking the same image with the same settings (ISO, aperture & shutter speed) in manual and in either Av or TV mode. Then compare the EXIF information for the image taken in each of those modes.
 
Sound like a lens problem. The fact that the meter flashes "-2" doesn't necessarily mean that exposure compensation or flash exposure compensation is dialed in. Some cameras flash like that to tell you that its meter thinks the shot you just took is underexposed. The reason for the underexposure could be the lens.

For a moment I thought that it could either be a communication problem, for which I'd recommend cleaning the contacts of both the camera and the lens. Then I thought it could be a problem with the aperture mechanism inside the lens. If it's stopping down more than it should or is getting stuck, then that could cause the problem you're describing. The only problem with this theory is that you said the problem doesn't happen when you shoot in Av or Tv mode.

I think you need to do controlled testing, taking the same image with the same settings (ISO, aperture & shutter speed) in manual and in either Av or TV mode. Then compare the EXIF information for the image taken in each of those modes.

Yes, I think you may be onto something. The pictures I am taking are coming out brighter and darker depending on the flash compensation I dial in PRIOR to taking the photo, regardless of the meter position on the flash compensation meter when the photo is captured. I'm a bit new to accessing and reading EXIF data. What am I looking for specifically that will help me determine the problem (if there really is a problem).
 
Take a picture in Av mode at a wide aperture (low f-stop number). Note the ISO, Aperture, and the shutter speed of that photo. You can get that information in the camera where you review the photos you've taken. Next, put the camera in manual mode and set the exact same ISO, aperture, and shutter speed as the shot taken in Av mode. Take the picture. In the camera review that shot you just took and see what ISO, aperture, and shutter speed it says was used for that image. Do the settings in the file properties match what you actually dialed into the camera? When you compare the image taken in Manual mode, is its exposure equal to that one taken in Av mode, or is it underexposed?
 
Take a picture in Av mode at a wide aperture (low f-stop number). Note the ISO, Aperture, and the shutter speed of that photo. You can get that information in the camera where you review the photos you've taken. Next, put the camera in manual mode and set the exact same ISO, aperture, and shutter speed as the shot taken in Av mode. Take the picture. In the camera review that shot you just took and see what ISO, aperture, and shutter speed it says was used for that image. Do the settings in the file properties match what you actually dialed into the camera? When you compare the image taken in Manual mode, is its exposure equal to that one taken in Av mode, or is it underexposed?

O.K. I'll give this a try and see what happens, then report back.
 
Take a picture in Av mode at a wide aperture (low f-stop number). Note the ISO, Aperture, and the shutter speed of that photo. You can get that information in the camera where you review the photos you've taken. Next, put the camera in manual mode and set the exact same ISO, aperture, and shutter speed as the shot taken in Av mode. Take the picture. In the camera review that shot you just took and see what ISO, aperture, and shutter speed it says was used for that image. Do the settings in the file properties match what you actually dialed into the camera? When you compare the image taken in Manual mode, is its exposure equal to that one taken in Av mode, or is it underexposed?

I ran your experiment and here is what happened. I tried the pop up flash first using the 50mm 1.8, in AV mode with 1.8 as the shutter setting. I had ISO at 400 from a previous shot, so just left it there. The final readings were aperture 1.8, ISO 400, speed 1/6. I then switched to manual mode and set those same readings, then fired another shot. Camera info indicates identical readings for both exposures and they both have equal amounts of light when I look at them. I would say they are identical. I tired the entire set up again with the speedlight and the results were the same. However, I did notice that when I was dialing the aperture setting of 1.8, the flash compensation meter indicator was moving by itself as the size got wider and wider. So, am I just noticing some sort of self-correction feature that the camera wants to use because it thinks I'm going to over or under expose a shot? But if that is the case wouldn't it still have to come off -2 if I manually forced it to do so?
 
I ran your experiment and here is what happened. I tried the pop up flash first using the 50mm 1.8, in AV mode with 1.8 as the shutter setting. I had ISO at 400 from a previous shot, so just left it there. The final readings were aperture 1.8, ISO 400, speed 1/6. I then switched to manual mode and set those same readings, then fired another shot. Camera info indicates identical readings for both exposures and they both have equal amounts of light when I look at them. I would say they are identical. I tired the entire set up again with the speedlight and the results were the same. However, I did notice that when I was dialing the aperture setting of 1.8, the flash compensation meter indicator was moving by itself as the size got wider and wider. So, am I just noticing some sort of self-correction feature that the camera wants to use because it thinks I'm going to over or under expose a shot? But if that is the case wouldn't it still have to come off -2 if I manually forced it to do so?

Ok sounds like you are misunderstanding how the Canon flash system works. It IS different than with a Nikon camera so, while people are trying to be helpful, it may have confused you further.

When you adjust exposure on a Canon camera it is adjusting the exposure for ambient light. Flash exposure is entirely separate. So in M mode if you adjust the aperture it is telling you how your shot is being exposed compared to what the camera thinks is correct. The needle being in the middle is "correct". Something correct isn't "correct" however, like when shooting a child in the snow(the camera will underexpose) or a graduation where most of the stage is dark(the camera will overexpose). This is probably the needle you saw moving back and forward.

Exposure compensation is only used in Semi-auto modes(Av, Tv, etc). This setting will brighten or darken your exposure relative to ambient light. It does not care about the flash being used(except that it will usually half the exposure to account for the flash on the subject to not overexpose him/her.

To get to flash exposure is different on every camera. However, on the more advanced cameras there is a flash exposure button on the top of the camera near the settings LCD. When this button is pressed you will see the same exposure compensation bar but with a lightning bolt next to it. Adjusting this adjusts how the flash is metered off the subject. When the camera uses the flash it detects the return light off what it determines is the subject(usually either the center of the image or the focus point depending on the camera) and dials in the flash accordingly. If this doesn't brighten the subject enough you can dial in positive correction and if it blinds the subject you can dial in negative correction.

There is a FEL (flash exposure lock) feature on all Canon cameras that can be used to minimize the amount of FEC(flash exposure compensation) you have to use. To use this feature, find the button for it(usually the * button when the flash is up). If you press this button the flash will fire and a * will appear in the viewfinder. This feature meters the flash before you take the shot. You see, if your subject is not in the center of your picture, the flash may not exposure for the subject you want. So you flash the center focus point over the subject and press the FEL button(*). You may have to then hold this button down but sometimes the setting will be held in memory for a specified duration in time(usually the case). You can then reframe the shot and take the image. The picture should be much better exposed.

Flash on a Nikon system interacts with the normal exposure compensation. It's not better/worse, its just different. If you use a Canon its best to think of them as completely separate settings.

For example:

You are taking a picture of a friend in front of a sunset but the friend is too dark - increase flash exposure compensation(or use the FEL feature)

You are taking a picture of a friend in front of a sunset but the sky is too bright and you can't see the sunset but the friend is nicely exposure - dial down the exposure compensation(NOT flash exposure compensation).

I hope this helps. Please let me know if you have any questions or difficulty understanding this post. I realize I covered a lot of topics here and flash is not easy to understand initially.
 
When you adjust exposure on a Canon camera it is adjusting the exposure for ambient light. Flash exposure is entirely separate. So in M mode if you adjust the aperture it is telling you how your shot is being exposed compared to what the camera thinks is correct. The needle being in the middle is "correct". Something correct isn't "correct" however, like when shooting a child in the snow(the camera will underexpose) or a graduation where most of the stage is dark(the camera will overexpose). This is probably the needle you saw moving back and forward.

Exposure compensation is only used in Semi-auto modes(Av, Tv, etc). This setting will brighten or darken your exposure relative to ambient light. It does not care about the flash being used(except that it will usually half the exposure to account for the flash on the subject to not overexpose him/her.

To get to flash exposure is different on every camera. However, on the more advanced cameras there is a flash exposure button on the top of the camera near the settings LCD. When this button is pressed you will see the same exposure compensation bar but with a lightning bolt next to it. Adjusting this adjusts how the flash is metered off the subject. When the camera uses the flash it detects the return light off what it determines is the subject(usually either the center of the image or the focus point depending on the camera) and dials in the flash accordingly. If this doesn't brighten the subject enough you can dial in positive correction and if it blinds the subject you can dial in negative correction.

There is a FEL (flash exposure lock) feature on all Canon cameras that can be used to minimize the amount of FEC(flash exposure compensation) you have to use. To use this feature, find the button for it(usually the * button when the flash is up). If you press this button the flash will fire and a * will appear in the viewfinder. This feature meters the flash before you take the shot. You see, if your subject is not in the center of your picture, the flash may not exposure for the subject you want. So you flash the center focus point over the subject and press the FEL button(*). You may have to then hold this button down but sometimes the setting will be held in memory for a specified duration in time(usually the case). You can then reframe the shot and take the image. The picture should be much better exposed.

Flash on a Nikon system interacts with the normal exposure compensation. It's not better/worse, its just different. If you use a Canon its best to think of them as completely separate settings.

For example:

You are taking a picture of a friend in front of a sunset but the friend is too dark - increase flash exposure compensation(or use the FEL feature)

You are taking a picture of a friend in front of a sunset but the sky is too bright and you can't see the sunset but the friend is nicely exposure - dial down the exposure compensation(NOT flash exposure compensation).

I hope this helps. Please let me know if you have any questions or difficulty understanding this post. I realize I covered a lot of topics here and flash is not easy to understand initially.

So basically, it seems that what I'm seeing with my compensation meter moving is the camera adjusting for exposure compensation. That makes sense. However, when I use the control button to set flash compensation (yes the little lightning bolt is there) I am able to scroll that same meter up and down the range. (The meter indicates both flash exposure and exposure compensation depending on the mode). I'll need to try again and pay attention to the symbols being displayed. I think I was confused by the function of the meter in that I thought it was showing me flash compensation (which was "stuck" at -2) when it was actually trying to tell me that the shot would be underexposed by 2 if I had taken it at the current settings. As for FEL, that's something I'm still trying to figure out. I'll do some additional detective work and see if I can figure out what the meter is actually telling me versus what I think it says! Thanks for your time and detailed answer. It certainly helped. :goodvibes
 

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