Fixing Castaway Cay port access for ships

[idomagic]

I am very upset with DCL for a couple reasons, and it frustrates me they don't "fix it."

First of all, I am NOT a cruiser, don't get it, don't really like it. As a DVC member, I trek yearly to Disney World and spend a week at the parks. This year, we decided to visit Castaway Cay and learn all about this "amazing" island Disney owns, so we invested in a 3-day cruise. Needless to say, there was "bad weather," and the captain couldn't dock the boat at Castaway Cay... nor did he even try. I'm no expert, but the seas looked like this photo:

I am no maritime expert but I do know Disney has a lot of money. It would seem that adding breakwater swould eliminate the waves (which as you can see from my photo are not very big) that cause the docking problems. From the satellite image, it looks like the water isn't tremendously deep and I'm sure Disney could build a Tetrapod plant on the back of the island and barge in cement. Don't worry about lecturing me on the ecological impact, I'm sure Disney could do it with minimal impact and even improve the ecosystem in some way.

Secondly, there is literally no discussion about the possiblity of missing ports to newbs like myself. I can only find one instance of it being mentioned on the DCL site in the FAQ section. It feels unethical to avoid the topic which, from my research, appears to happen a lot. My google search for "Disney Missed Port Policy" resulted only 1 link from the Disney Cruise Line site and it's about missing the boat at port. It's obvious this possible/likely circumstance is buried by management.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

I am very upset with DCL for a couple reasons, and it frustrates me they don't "fix it."

First of all, I am NOT a cruiser, don't get it, don't really like it. As a DVC member, I trek yearly to Disney World and spend a week at the parks. This year, we decided to visit Castaway Cay and learn all about this "amazing" island Disney owns, so we invested in a 3-day cruise. Needless to say, there was "bad weather," and the captain couldn't dock the boat at Castaway Cay... nor did he even try. I'm no expert, but the seas looked like this photo:

I am no maritime expert but I do know Disney has a lot of money. It would seem that adding breakwater swould eliminate the waves (which as you can see from my photo are not very big) that cause the docking problems. From the satellite image, it looks like the water isn't tremendously deep and I'm sure Disney could build a Tetrapod plant on the back of the island and barge in cement. Don't worry about lecturing me on the ecological impact, I'm sure Disney could do it with minimal impact and even improve the ecosystem in some way.

Secondly, there is literally no discussion about the possiblity of missing ports to newbs like myself. I can only find one instance of it being mentioned on the DCL site in the FAQ section. It feels unethical to avoid the topic which, from my research, appears to happen a lot. My google search for "Disney Missed Port Policy" resulted only 1 link from the Disney Cruise Line site and it's about missing the boat at port. It's obvious this possible/likely circumstance is buried by management.

Sorry, your cruise was so unenjoyable.

The possibility of changing ports/itineraries is always possible. It's specified in the contract you agreed to when you booked the cruise (did you read it?). That's standard on all major cruiselines. From the contract:
RIGHT TO CHANGE ITINERARY/DETENTION
Disney Cruise Line may in its sole discretion and without prior notice change, substitute, postpone, cancel or deviate from any scheduled sailing, itinerary or call at any port, and may substitute another vessel for the ship, and shall not be liable for any loss or damage incurred by a Guest as a result of any such change, substitution, postponement, cancellation or deviation. The Guest shall pay any and all expenses incurred if a Guest is detained on board ship or elsewhere at any stage of a voyage because of quarantine, port regulations, prevailing applicable law, illness or other cause.

Just because the water looks calm to you doesn't mean it is (sorry, can't see your photos). The Captain has much more experience/training than you do in these matters. I'll take his call as to whether docking is a good idea or not.

Also, he has to look at what the seas/weather will likely be later in the day. He doesn't want to get into port and not be able to leave due to bad seas.

Development on the "back of the island" cannot be done. That was part of the agreement that Disney made when obtaining the island in the first place.

EDIT: OK, I see your photos now. That first photo shows white caps. That typically means there's a wind. It could be strong enough to affect both how the ship moves, and how the water moves. Not as "calm" as you seem to be letting on.

 

[Sour gummi]

Does anybody know how often castaway cay is cancelled due to weather like this. We had bad weather a year ago but we weee able to dock but it didn’t do very much since it was driving rain all day.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

Does anybody know how often castaway cay is cancelled due to weather like this. We had bad weather a year ago but we weee able to dock but it didn’t do very much since it was driving rain all day.

These are older threads, but could be helpful:
https://www.disboards.com/threads/how-often-does-the-ship-miss-castaway-cay.462357/
https://www.disboards.com/threads/p...miss-castaway-cay-due-to-the-weather.2854575/
https://www.disboards.com/threads/missing-castaway-cay.3354486/
https://www.disboards.com/threads/we-missed-castaway-cay.2672593/

 

[kenthanson]

In February we had very windy and rough water for all 7 days, it was useless trying to scuba dive because the water was all churned up from the waves and some of the staff said it was the rockiest they've seen the seas and we docked no problem.

 

[NCConch]

It is not so much the waves but the wind. Wind usually produces waves - but not always. If the wind is out of the north or the south as the ship is backing in, it is very difficult to dock the ship unaided - no tugs. That tall ship is like a sail and would be easily pushed into shoal.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

They don't own the island in a sense of complete control. The Bahamas still have some control. Disney is not allowed to completely remake it to suit themselves.

 

[Dug720]

It is not so much the waves but the wind. Wind usually produces waves - but not always. If the wind is out of the north or the south as the ship is backing in, it is very difficult to dock the ship unaided - no tugs. That tall ship is like a sail and would be easily pushed into shoal.

It's also the currents under the surface that can cause problems. They almost prevented us from docking once when i was on the Fantasy. We made it, but Commodore Tom literally CREPT into the trench. Once we sped up, I knew we were safely inside and would make it. But I was fully prepared for a sea day.

Is it disappointing when it happens? Of course. BUT that is part of cruising - and really life. Things happen.

 

[MomOTwins]

I think the right thing to do is for disney to offer a minor added discount (e.g. $200) for all guests that can be used toward a future sailing. I agree they have no obligation to do so based on the current contract, but they have the ability to alter that contract, and I think it would do a lot toward building goodwill. Do I think Disney will do this? No. But I think it would be good for them in the long term. The most common DCL cruiser is a first time cruiser that is doing it because of kids, and to kids there is nothing more exciting than the private island that Disney makes the centerpiece of all of its video promos, and nothing more disappointing than finding out there is no island day. In the long term, especially with more boats on the way, they need repeat business, and not just from the die hard cruising fans that are already Platinum.

 

[Quellman]

Sorry you felt disappointed in missing out on Disney's private island. Especially on such a short cruise. Nassau is hardly the most amazing place in the world, so Castaway would have made up for it.

It's a very narrow navigable space. You can see how long it is in the picture you posted. It takes a while for them to back it in during good conditions. Don't know what Disney could do differently about it. As others have mentioned, the size of ships matters when wind comes into play, and not even at high speeds.

To determine the wind pressure per square foot = 0.00256 x the square of the wind speed.
Assume 10 mph winds. you have .256 pounds of force for every square foot. Assuming the ship is a rectangle (1,114' x 200') that's 222,800 square feet of ship susceptible to the wind. With the math this is 57,036 pounds of total force against the side of the ship. I'm not a mariner, so I can't tell you the impacts, but there is the math. Add that to the tide tables, water current, and you can see how there is the potentiality for disruption.

The other thing to consider, is that the captain may have gotten a report about conditions later in the day. There may have been indications that later in the day it would have been dangerous for the ship to actually leave.

Granted one of the reasons the ship backs in so often is that it is generally easier for him to pull forward when leaving, which gives them a better chance in case bad weather show up later in the day.

 

[DietCokeMommy]

If you’re “not a cruiser” and “don’t get it” then why bother? If you don’t like being on the boat, you shouldn’t cruise. You’ll probably be happier sticking with resort vacations.

I know it’s frustrating not having your vacation work out the way you imagined. But you seem disproportionately angry about the situation.

 

[lilsonicfan]

If you’re “not a cruiser” and “don’t get it” then why bother? If you don’t like being on the boat, you shouldn’t cruise. You’ll probably be happier sticking with resort vacations.

I know it’s frustrating not having your vacation work out the way you imagined. But you seem disproportionately angry about the situation.

I’m not sure this is a fair assessment of OP. I mean I have a feeling that idomagic could have really enjoyed this cruise had it actually visited Castaway Cay. I would have been very disappointed too; CC is (to me) a huge reason for sailing Disney and paying the increased prices compared to other cruise lines. And it is a huge part of their advertising.

I don’t know enough about sailing to know what Disney could do, so I won’t chime in there.

 

[Dug720]

I’m not sure this is a fair assessment of OP. I mean I have a feeling that idomagic could have really enjoyed this cruise had it actually visited Castaway Cay. I would have been very disappointed too; CC is (to me) a huge reason for sailing Disney and paying the increased prices compared to other cruise lines. And it is a huge part of their advertising.

I don’t know enough about sailing to know what Disney could do, so I won’t chime in there.

The OP stated that they “are not a cruiser” to begin their post - so those words come directly from them.

 

[lilsonicfan]

The OP stated that they “are not a cruiser” to begin their post - so those words come directly from them.

Yup. I read the same OP that everyone else did. I still think, and the post implies, that OP would have enjoyed the cruise much more had it gone to CC as originally intended.

And by fair assessment, I meant the part where it was suggested OP was disproportionately angry.

 

[mevelandry]

A cruise itinerary usually depends on weather and mechanical conditions. Unfortunately, cancellations of a port can happen. It comes with the territory.

 

[Maggie'sMom]

OP, I'm very sorry you were disappointed with your cruise. Unfortunately, missed ports are just a part of cruising. It is in your cruise contract, and if you were to visit this board prior to cruising, you likely would have seen posts regarding this. Over the years, there have been many posts about cruises missing CC and other ports due to bad weather. While the weather may not have looked bad to you (I can't see your photo), wind and waves can make it dangerous for the ship to try to dock there. As PPs mentioned, the captain has extensive experience with these things and has more information than cruisers on the weather and sea conditions. If the captain says it's not safe to dock, then I will not question that. They know how disappointed cruisers will be with a missed CC day so they don't skip CC without good reason.

Also as PP mentioned, DCL doesn't own CC. They are limited in what improvements they can do there. And no matter what improvements they make, they can't ultimately control the seas enough to guarantee docking at CC.

We just got off the Fantasy on Saturday. When we boarded the prior Saturday, we were informed our itinerary had changed. We were visiting the ports in a different order than originally planned. I heard some grumbling from other cruisers about the change, and there must have been enough complaints to guest services that Captain Thor felt it necessary to explain the change. He made a general announcement to the ship that if we had stayed on our original course, we would have encountered 15-18 foot swells. That would not have made for a good cruise. As it was, we had intense winds and more rocking on the ship than I have encountered on any of my prior cruises.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Also as PP mentioned, DCL doesn't own CC.

Well, kinda. It's almost like they bought a timeshare. They have a 99-year lease on the island. But even if they owned the island outright, they would still be subject to Bahamian law, and not a sovereign nation or able to set their own development standards outright. It's not unlike your own home in that sense. You can't just build a giant garage up to the property line in most areas; you need permits and you have to respect setbacks or get exceptions, etc.

 

[KdKyA]

I view it no differently than making a trip to WDW with the sole intent of going for a specific ride that just opened to having it shut down due to technical issues right before you get on. Yes, this has happened to us. Yes, it's frustrating, but you can let it ruin your vacation or make the best of it. We were supposed to go to Tortola and St. Thomas back when the hurricane hit. We ended up with Cozumel, Costa Maya, and Grand Cayman. An entirely different route and we lost a sea day when they added Costa Maya which hardly anyone got off for. It sucked, but it's how it goes. I could have chosen to let it ruin our vacation, or make the best of it and find fun things to do. Even in the parks you deal with unforeseen ride shut downs. Sure, they may offer a FP, but the ride may not open back up that day or you may have other plans. Missing Castaway Cay is the same in my book. Everyone gets a cruise contract, it's up to everyone to read it. It says they can miss or change ports as needed. It's also up to people to get trip insurance. If you did, then you should get money back for a missed port. If not, then you are out of luck.

 

[jetskigrl]

OP - I'm sorry you did not get the cruise you were hoping for. But sometimes even if they can dock, it doesn't work out well. Our first visit to CC was far from what we had envisioned. It took the captain three tries to back the ship in (we were told later that if it didn't work on the third try, they would have skipped the port that day). As it turned out, all excursions on the island were cancelled that day due to the winds. We tried to snorkel but the water was choppy and just not fun to snorkel in. As we were heading back to the ship, we could see a rainstorm coming and within minutes of getting back to our room, the rain covered the island. We could no longer see the beach from our room (couldn't even go out on the balcony due to the rain coming down so hard). It definitely wasn't what we had hoped for.

Luckily for us, we were sailing B2B so we were back at CC three days later where we had perfect weather. Docking happened on the first try and all excursions were available. Snorkeling was absolutely amazing. But that tells you how hard it is to predict what it will be like on a particular day (even 3 days apart).

 

[xiphoid76]

Does Disney offer anything to guests if they can’t dock at Castaway Cay? On board credit perhaps? Or do they just do a day at sea itinerary instead.