Fidelity or Seller Misrepresenting Available Points?

[magnusvv]

I remember reading a couple threads back where people running into this same problem. I knew that dealing with this agency would be a bit of a hassle but there just weren't any contracts available for what I wanted at the Timeshare Store.

I am in the process of purchasing a resale through Fidelity. I just found out a couple days after things were submitted to ROFR that the number of points outstanding for this year is off by 118 points for a 225 point contract. To me that is a pretty big number of points to turn up missing. I'm wondering if people think these sellers are really that out of touch, just outright lying, or is there something else that goes wrong when this happens like fidelity habitually messes up on the paperwork?

Is it even legal for those sellers to sign that initial sale agreement with the number of points being incorrect? Fidelity isn't responsible for any of this kind of due diligence on their listings?

In my case I have asked for 1/2 the value of the missing points via the rental market off the purchase price, $500 off.

Buyer beware...as if you hadn't already heard this.
Ok I'm done ranting!

 

[drusba]

I cannot guess as to what the sellers were thinking but that is obviously a material error. The broker has some responsibility to assure accuracy but it is limited by what the seller can provide; for example, the broker could insist on the seller's providing a copy of his website account page showing points in the contract for this and the next two upcoming years, which can be provided. However, the broker cannot just call Disney and get all the details on the seller's account since Disney limits such contacts to the member. Usually these discrepanicies do get discovered and often when waiver of ROFR is sought. If seller purposefully misrepresented the points, it could be fraud. Whether it is criminal is questionable including at least from the viewpoint that officials are highly unlikely to pursue it. It is a civil matter and misrepresentations like that give you the right to rescind the sale and get your money back. You are choosing a different remedy by requesting a further discount while going forward with the sale which is one way to resolve the issue.

 

[logan115]

I am confused Drusba as each of the contracts I've listed with the well known brokers (but not fidelity) had to wait to list my contracts on their site until they checked with DVC to confirm the details of my contracts. Presumably one of the things they would check is the available points.

Chris

 

[etemplet]

I have been perusing contracts, points, usage years etc... I've noticed points listed in ads that would have expired if not banked. A contract I was looking it had points that would expire in Feb. 2011 if not banked and the last day to bank them was Oct. 1st. I would assume a savvy seller would bank those points as they have significant value. I even asked about such a contract and was told they could contact the seller and have them bank the points if that is what I wanted.

I wouldn't think that any business would be a business very long if they misrepresented their product. However cavet emptor !! Sounds like you are "on the ball" !!

 

[DVCconvert]

Once something goes under contract (if not before), at least with TTS, I know they (TTS) communicate directly with DVC to verify the point status of a listing.

If Fidelity doesn't do this, I'd consider this Negligence in that as a broker representing both buyer and seller, they did not forfil their due diligence.

 

[JimMIA]

Once something goes under contract (if not before), at least with TTS, I know they (TTS) communicate directly with DVC to verify the point status of a listing.

If Fidelity doesn't do this, I'd consider this Negligence in that as a broker representing both buyer and seller, they did not forfil their due diligence.

I believe TTS checks the points prior to listing. I'm not sure Fidelity even checks the points at all until the contract is in preparation for closing. I agree that's negligent -- at the very least.

 

[Caren90]

Once something goes under contract (if not before), at least with TTS, I know they (TTS) communicate directly with DVC to verify the point status of a listing.

Fidelity does this as well. Before I received a purchase agreement for my last offer, Sharon checked with Disney to make sure the points that were listed on their site was accurate.

 

[JimMIA]

I am in the process of purchasing a resale through Fidelity. I just found out a couple days after things were submitted to ROFR that the number of points outstanding for this year is off by 118 points for a 225 point contract.

The most likely explanation may be even worse than you think. The most likely explanation is that the owners have made a 118-point reservation since listing the property. What that means to you -- in addition to the lose of the points -- is that they will not be able to close until they complete that vacation.

To me that is a pretty big number of points to turn up missing. I'm wondering if people think these sellers are really that out of touch, just outright lying, or is there something else that goes wrong when this happens like fidelity habitually messes up on the paperwork?

To me, Fidelity being clueless is the most likely. We consistently hear this kind of problem with Fidelity. There are three other major firms who do resale, and we never hear a problem with any of them.

In my case I have asked for 1/2 the value of the missing points via the rental market off the purchase price, $500 off.

You're very kind. I'm not sure how you calculated that, but I'd want at least the FULL value of those points.

Frankly, I'd just cancel -- but if you want to play, I'd be looking for at least $10 per point...$1,180.

Ok I'm done ranting!

You're not ranting. You're raising a legitimate concern that has bitten a lot of people on the behind.

 

[wishicouldgomoreofte]

I, too, thought DVC could only discuss it with the owner.
How are the brokers able to verify with Disney?
Do sellers sign some legal release allowing DVC to discuss with the broker?

 

[JimMIA]

I, too, thought DVC could only discuss it with the owner.
How are the brokers able to verify with Disney?
Do sellers sign some legal release allowing DVC to discuss with the broker?

The brokers get a written synopsis of the points from DVC. It costs $15-$20, so I'm guessing it's a corner that can be cut successfully much of the time to save that expense until the contract is sold. As I said above, we only hear of this issue with one broker.

 

[N4niner206]

Just to point something out regarding agent representation...

There is NOTHING to say you can't approach a resale purchase with a buyers agent. You do not HAVE to use the seller's agent as your own during a purchase.

We recently made our first purchase. The listing was through Fidelity. I used ******** as my buying agent. It can be helpful to have your own representation (not that I have anything against Fidelity or any other selling agent, for that matter). For a purchase OR a sale, find an agent that is responsive and meets your needs, and ask them to represent you, regardless of where the property in question is listed.

To give some perspective... I'm pretty sure that in my home state (Arizona) it is no longer LEGAL for an agent to act as both a seller's agent and buyer's agent in a single transaction for normal real estate sales (not sure if this applies to timeshares). There is a definite opportunity for conflict of interest. I was additionally impressed when **** explained to me that he does not own (instead rents) DVC as he feels that would also be a conflict of interest (too easy for an agent to buy and re-sell the lower priced sales).

I know this scenario isn't necessarily what happend to the OP... I just wanted to point out something that we often forget, in regards to purchasing a membership.

 

[etemplet]

This is a fairly simple transaction. What do you have to sell ? How much does it cost? Is it yours free and clear ? Show me.

 

[Disneycouple99]

I am in the process of buying a contract with Fidelity and just got the buyer to agree. I was to have a contract by Tuseday but got a call saying that they are now required to get a point summary from dvc before they can write up the contract. They also said that they get a point summary when they get the listing and every 2 weeks if the contract is still up for sale. This is something they started this week.

 

[etemplet]

This place is soooo Kewl !!! Good Stuff for sure !!

 

[magnusvv]

I got a response from the agent at Fidelity today. They check the points status when it is first listed, but the seller can use the points in the meantime, which they did in this case. They did not notify Fidelity of the change and even signed the sales document listing the points.

 

[OrangeCountyCommuter]

I, too, thought DVC could only discuss it with the owner.
How are the brokers able to verify with Disney?
Do sellers sign some legal release allowing DVC to discuss with the broker?

Yes, you do have to authorize the broker access to your "points" information. I think you can call and have it faxed to them or they can give DVC your authorization form.

My brokers have then made it VERY clear that I should NOT mess with the points unless I tell them....

 

[ssawka]

I got a response from the agent at Fidelity today. They check the points status when it is first listed, but the seller can use the points in the meantime, which they did in this case. They did not notify Fidelity of the change and even signed the sales document listing the points.

There is no way I would deal with a seller that did that. Walk away, another contract will come along. Just my $0.02!

 

[JimMIA]

I am in the process of buying a contract with Fidelity and just got the buyer to agree. I was to have a contract by Tuseday but got a call saying that they are now required to get a point summary from dvc before they can write up the contract. They also said that they get a point summary when they get the listing and every 2 weeks if the contract is still up for sale. This is something they started this week.

That's good news for buyers, sellers, AND Fidelity. Those mixups are bad for everyone.

It sure took them long enough!

 

[JimMIA]

I got a response from the agent at Fidelity today. They check the points status when it is first listed, but the seller can use the points in the meantime, which they did in this case. They did not notify Fidelity of the change and even signed the sales document listing the points.

What kind of resolution are they proposing? I'm inclined to agree with SSAWKA that I wouldn't buy from them -- I think they're likely to be problematic from start to finish. But if you do, they should certainly make it worth your while.

The $10 per point deduction from the price I mentioned above is not a number I just pulled out of the air. That's what you would pay to rent those points that they've now taken out of the contract, and it's a reasonable compensation. I know that significantly reduces their selling price, but that's their bad, not yours.

Also, you'd better be sure their vacation with those points is already completed. If it's not, you won't be able to close until after their vacation.

 

[logan115]

I'd also check to see what points they are using for that trip. One would think that it would be banked or current years points, but with this situation I wouldn't take any chances that the points from a future UY weren't somehow used for this trip.

Chris