Fastpass/Fastpass+ Mutually Exclusive?

[jenjordan]

As long as they don't get rid of regular FP or limit the number of FP a person can get in a day beyond the limits already set, I'm fine.

 

[minnie mum]

~Exactly, it's ALL speculation! The amount of Fastpasses have almost doubled in anticipation of FP+, by means of an increase in the number of available fastpasses and the enhancement of line queues that were not previously equipped to support FP's, and of course this includes the new Fantasyland attractions. A substantial amount of FP's have been added to support FP+ and those individuals, who would normally be out of luck for a FP will now have increased odds of attaining a FP through FP+.

~Oh yeah, my comment above was just a joke.

The total number of fastpasses per park will have increased. I don't know where you got the figures stating that they have doubled. They have added fastpasses to some attractions that didn't previously have them (and rarely if ever needed them). And new attractions have been added that will have fastpasses attached to them. But the fact remains that there is a finite capacity for any given attraction. That capacity was formerly split between standby and fastpass. I don't think anyone has any hard FACTS as to what that split was, percentage wise. Now that capacity has to be split 3 ways. Either the total number of standby entries or the total number of regular fastpasses will have to be reduced to accommodate the number of FP+s. Or both will. Whatever route they take, the lines will be affected.
I can't wait to see the mad demand for fastpass+ for Mickey's Philharmagic or Imagination. Yeah, there's just SUCH a demand for them, and others like them.

 

[WillAustin]

I can't wait to see the mad demand for fastpass+ for Mickey's Philharmagic or Imagination. Yeah, there's just SUCH a demand for them, and others like them.

Those FP+s will be chosen by the people who wait longer to make their FP+ reservations because they will be the only choices available once the higher demand rides are gone. Won't it be great to login for FP+ only to find the top tier rides are all booked already, and then be locked out of in-park FPs for your entire trip?

 

[bcrook]

Those FP+s will be chosen by the people who wait longer to make their FP+ reservations because they will be the only choices available once the higher demand rides are gone.

And people who don't know any better will book the rides that might not need them. It will be like making ADRs. If the restaurant you want isn't available, the system suggests an alternate.

Ex. If I choose to use FP+ at DHS, I schedule my TSMM, and then I need to choose a few more events, I might waste one on Indiana Jones or Star Tours. It should disperse crowds. The wily veterans will have an advantage.

 

[mesaboy2]

Could you explain what you mean when you say some of the Fastpasses are coming from the standby line?

I'm a bit confused on what you mean.

X = standby riders per hour
Y = FP riders per hour
Z = total riders per hour (Z is aconstant)

Until this past March, X + Y = Z.

Speculation is that since March, there have been more FPs issued. If so, this means that already Y has increased and X has decreased by the same amount. (Remember, Z is a constant.). If true, standby riders are already losing and would experience longer lines, since FP riders take priority. Additionally, this would explain some reports that (a) FPs are lasting longer in the day and (b) FP lines are longer than before. These reports are anecdotal only, however, and cannot be proven or disproven by anyone without access to all FP data.

If the increased FP reports are not true, then X and Y are unchanged for now.

Now add:

Q = FP+ riders per hour

And now: X + Y + Q = Z.

Z is still a constant. Therefore, Q must take slots from either X, Y, or both.

Hopefully that was both insightful and happy.

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

The total number of fastpasses per park will have increased. I don't know where you got the figures stating that they have doubled. They have added fastpasses to some attractions that didn't previously have them (and rarely if ever needed them). And new attractions have been added that will have fastpasses attached to them. But the fact remains that there is a finite capacity for any given attraction. That capacity was formerly split between standby and fastpass. I don't think anyone has any hard FACTS as to what that split was, percentage wise. Now that capacity has to be split 3 ways. Either the total number of standby entries or the total number of regular fastpasses will have to be reduced to accommodate the number of FP+s. Or both will. Whatever route they take, the lines will be affected.
I can't wait to see the mad demand for fastpass+ for Mickey's Philharmagic or Imagination. Yeah, there's just SUCH a demand for them, and others like them.

~I have strong evidence that leads me to form this conclusion. However, it is an estimate, no one here has exact numbers.

~Article from Jim Hill --->Here<---

~The Magic Kingdom currently has the following rides, shows and attractions available for advance booking through that theme park's FastPASS system:

• Space Mountain
• Splash Mountain
• Big Thunder Mountain Railroad
• Mickey's Philharmagic
• Buzz Lightyear's Space Ranger Spin
• Peter Pan's Flight
• Jungle Cruise
• The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh
• Stitch's Great Escape

Once xPASS is up & running, WDW visitors will also have the chance to book in advance:

• it's a small world
• Pirates of the Caribbean
• The Haunted Mansion
• Tomorrowland Speedway
• The Magic Carpets of Aladdin
• The Great Goofini junior roller coaster
• Monsters, Inc. Laugh Floor
• Dumbo the Flying Elephant
• The Little Mermaid: Ariel's Undersea Adventure
• Seven Dwarfs Mine Train

Not to mention exclusive meet & greets with the Disney characters as well as primo viewing spots for such Magic Kingdom favorites as:

• Celebrate a Dream Come True Parade
• Main Street Electrical Parade
• Wishes Nighttime Spectacular

~Meanwhile, over at EPCOT, Guests can currently use that theme park's FastPASS system to enter the virtual queue for:

• Soarin'
• Test Track
• Mission: SPACE
• Maelstrom
• Living with the Land
• Captain EO

Once xPASS comes online, WDW visitors will be able to book advance reservations for:

• Journey into Imagination with Figment
• Turtle Talk with Crush
• The Seas with Nemo & Friends
• Spaceship Earth

~These Guests will also have the opportunity to experience exclusive meet & greets with the Disney characters as well as claim a spot for the nightly presentation of:

• IlllumiNations: Reflections of Earth

~Meanwhile, over at Disney's Hollywood Studios ... Nowadays, Guests can use FastPASS to book advance ride times on:

• Twilight Zone Tower of Terror
• Star Tours: The Adventures Continue
• Toy Story Mania!
• Rock 'n' Roller Coaster starring Aerosmith
• Indiana Jones Epic Stunt Spectacular!
• Voyage of the Little Mermaid
• Lights, Motors, Action! Extreme Stunt Show

~But in the not-so-distant future ... Thanks to xPASS, visitors to this studio theme park will also be able to take advantage of Disney's virtual queuing system to cut the line / their wait time for:

• The Great Movie Ride
• MuppetVision 3-D
• Beauty and the Beast - Live on Stage!
• The American Idol Experience
• Studio Backlot Tour

~Plus those exclusive meet & greets with the Disney characters. Not to mention special reserved-in-advance viewing areas for:

• Pixar Pals Countdown to Fun!
• Fantasmic!

• Expedition Everest
• Kilmanjaro Safaris
• Kali River Rapids
• It's Tough to be a Bug!
• DINOSAUR
• Primeval Whirl

~Once xPASS officially comes online next year, these same Disney World visitors will be able to use this virtual queuing system to book seats for:

• Finding Nemo - The Musical
• Festival of the Lion King

~Not to mention those exclusive meet & greet opportunities with the Disney characters as well as primo viewing spot for:

• Mickey's Jammin' Jungle Parade

~A very credible and respected poster who is employed by Disney, was especially kind to share a confidential company memo that alluded to the increase in the number of fastpasses available. So, FP+ is not taking away but adding more options & more FP's -- all of these options are in anticipation of FP+.

 

[Missyrose]

~I have strong evidence that leads me to form this conclusion. However, it is an estimate, no one here has exact numbers.

~Article from Jim Hill --->Here<---



~A very credible and respected poster who is employed by Disney, was especially kind to share a confidential company memo that alluded to the increase in the number of fastpasses available. So, FP+ is not taking away but adding more options & more FP's -- all of these options are in anticipation of FP+.

Right but those additional FPs have been in circulation for 10 months now. So it's easy to anticipate the number of threads that will say "FPs running out at XX attraction sooner" once FP+ is rolled out. Especially on these boards where people go multiple times per year, there will be noticeable effect on regular FP distribution and probably on standby wait times, as well.

And I typically wait for another outlet to report something before I take Jim Hill's word as gospel, he tends to throw a lot of stuff out there to see if anything sticks.

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

Right but those additional FPs have been in circulation for 10 months now. So it's easy to anticipate the number of threads that will say "FPs running out at XX attraction sooner" once FP+ is rolled out. Especially on these boards where people go multiple times per year, there will be noticeable effect on regular FP distribution and probably on standby wait times, as well.

And I typically wait for another outlet to report something before I take Jim Hill's word as gospel, he tends to throw a lot of stuff out there to see if anything sticks.

~I totally agree, Jim Hill is not Disney gospel, but this post is fairly accurate. Also, there are queues that have been enhanced to facilitate FP+, 10 months ago. The increase in FP's and the enhanced queues are in preparation for FP+, that is a given.

 

[SaraJayne]

X = standby riders per hour
Y = FP riders per hour
Z = total riders per hour (Z is aconstant)

Until this past March, X + Y = Z.

Speculation is that since March, there have been more FPs issued. If so, this means that already Y has increased and X has decreased by the same amount. (Remember, Z is a constant.). If true, standby riders are already losing and would experience longer lines, since FP riders take priority. Additionally, this would explain some reports that (a) FPs are lasting longer in the day and (b) FP lines are longer than before. These reports are anecdotal only, however, and cannot be proven or disproven by anyone without access to all FP data.

If the increased FP reports are not true, then X and Y are unchanged for now.

Now add:

Q = FP+ riders per hour

And now: X + Y + Q = Z.

Z is still a constant. Therefore, Q must take slots from either X, Y, or both.

Hopefully that was both insightful and happy.

You just *had* to make it an algebra equation, didn't you?

I understand what you mean now, thank you.

 

[spgoad]

I think the one thing that is missing from the "where are these additional fastpasses coming from" discussion is one of my original thoughts when I read/posted that it appeared FP and FP+ would be mutually exclusive. If they are in fact exclusive, then that means your equations can't be all additions.

It isn't really: FastPass + Standby + FastPass+.

It would actually be: (FastPass - FastPass+) + Standby + FastPass+.

Does that make sense? Anyone using FastPass+ is now out of the FastPass bucket. Which in my mind means, no additional FastPasses are really needed. Now, we could say that FastPass+ will be reaching people who don't use FastPass now, but we really have no way of knowing that. If anything FastPass+ seems more complex, so if I were to guess I'd think the reach will be smaller than FastPass is currently. Again of course, all speculation.

 

[SaraJayne]

~I have strong evidence that leads me to form this conclusion. However, it is an estimate, no one here has exact numbers.

~Article from Jim Hill --->Here<---



~A very credible and respected poster who is employed by Disney, was especially kind to share a confidential company memo that alluded to the increase in the number of fastpasses available. So, FP+ is not taking away but adding more options & more FP's -- all of these options are in anticipation of FP+.

It may be adding more options, but the number of people riding the ride hasn't changed. So someone will end up waiting longer than they would have without FP+ being added to the equation (no pun intended Mesa Boy ).

And very few people think Jim Hill is credible.

 

[mattsdragon]

X = standby riders per hour
Y = FP riders per hour
Z = total riders per hour (Z is aconstant)

Until this past March, X + Y = Z.

Speculation is that since March, there have been more FPs issued. If so, this means that already Y has increased and X has decreased by the same amount. (Remember, Z is a constant.). If true, standby riders are already losing and would experience longer lines, since FP riders take priority. Additionally, this would explain some reports that (a) FPs are lasting longer in the day and (b) FP lines are longer than before. These reports are anecdotal only, however, and cannot be proven or disproven by anyone without access to all FP data.

If the increased FP reports are not true, then X and Y are unchanged for now.

Now add:

Q = FP+ riders per hour

And now: X + Y + Q = Z.

Z is still a constant. Therefore, Q must take slots from either X, Y, or both.

Hopefully that was both insightful and happy.

I was told there would be no math.

 

[bcrook]

I think the one thing that is missing from the "where are these additional fastpasses coming from" discussion is one of my original thoughts when I read/posted that it appeared FP and FP+ would be mutually exclusive. If they are in fact exclusive, then that means your equations can't be all additions.

It isn't really: FastPass + Standby + FastPass+.

It would actually be: (FastPass - FastPass+) + Standby + FastPass+.

Does that make sense? Anyone using FastPass+ is now out of the FastPass bucket. Which in my mind means, no additional FastPasses are really needed. Now, we could say that FastPass+ will be reaching people who don't use FastPass now, but we really have no way of knowing that. If anything FastPass+ seems more complex, so if I were to guess I'd think the reach will be smaller than FastPass is currently. Again of course, all speculation.

If people opt into the FP+ category and some percentage of those people are scheduling fastpasses for rides that typically don't need fastpasses. That changes the formula even more. That would mean that the headliner rides will have less people taking FP as walk ups. People who would have grabbed a fast pass for something like RnR, will be out of the equation if they didn't schedule it. Also people park hopping will be out of equation for at least one park each day.

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

It may be adding more options, but the number of people riding the ride hasn't changed. So someone will end up waiting longer than they would have without FP+ being added to the equation (no pun intended Mesa Boy ).

And very few people think Jim Hill is credible.

~I never said Jim Hill was "credible." But, the post I quoted is a solid and accurate post. He has his hits and misses, like most here do. I have no comment on your post above, that's not my argument. I don't have the numbers or data to even comment on that. My perspective is simple, FP+ is not taking away but adding more options and more fastpasses, to alleviate those posters who had no other option but to ride standby.

 

[Jennasis]

Uh oh...the DIS is arguing FP again...

 

[bcrook]

Do you think those new fastpass additions like great movie ride will only be available through FP+? That means people not staying on site would not be able to get a FP. That is an interesting perk for those people who are casual travelers to Disney.

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

I think the one thing that is missing from the "where are these additional fastpasses coming from" discussion is one of my original thoughts when I read/posted that it appeared FP and FP+ would be mutually exclusive. If they are in fact exclusive, then that means your equations can't be all additions.

It isn't really: FastPass + Standby + FastPass+.

It would actually be: (FastPass - FastPass+) + Standby + FastPass+.

Does that make sense? Anyone using FastPass+ is now out of the FastPass bucket. Which in my mind means, no additional FastPasses are really needed. Now, we could say that FastPass+ will be reaching people who don't use FastPass now, but we really have no way of knowing that. If anything FastPass+ seems more complex, so if I were to guess I'd think the reach will be smaller than FastPass is currently. Again of course, all speculation.

~Fastpass+ may seem more complex here, but I'm willing to guess it won't be a big deal for the majority guests to adapt. Just look at how we travel now, we use our iPhones as boarding passes, everything is done online, even when you just get a tea at Starbuck's all you have to do is flash your iPhone, the world is rapidly changing, you either adapt or get left behind. This post isn't specifically geared toward you, just in general.

 

[bcrook]

Uh oh...the DIS is arguing FP again...

Why is it arguing? I have found this entire conversation enlightening. By posting the new guidelines we have some new information to process. There are a few pieces missing, but I know a lot more now than I did before this thread.

 

[Quicklabs]

And I'm getting too old for all this!

 

[mousermerf]

The way it's going to work, the current FP attractions are going to add FP+ at first. The new FP+ attractions are NEVER going to offer regular FP.

That included attractions like Haunted Mansion and Spaceship Earth. FP+ only, so if you're not in the FP+ roll-out you're waiting in a longer line depending on how those rides are utilized.

And that's not speculation. That's simply how it's going to work.

They finish installing the RFID doorlocks at the end of Januaury. Touch to pay began testing this month and Disney's own timeline says it'll be fully in place by March.

By this time next year, I suspect FP will have ceased to exist, leaving only FP+. Likely by mid-year, if not earlier.