Fastpass Enforcement coming?

[Sammie]

You should go all the way back to post one and start the thread from the beginning. If you do, you'll see posts based on discussions with actual people who actually designed and implemented the system, and you'll see the actual intent was that people in line can't spend money, so Disney actually implemented the actual program with the actual effect of getting actual people out of actual lines and into actual stores to actually spend actual money.

And that was, to paraphrase Bre'r Bear, "satisf-actual."

March 7th can't come soon enough... are we there yet?

No but we are getting closer,

 

[doconeill]

I do have access to the HUB, and that is how I learned about 3/7. I also have some visibility into training and training materials, and have for many years. It's true that CMs are taught to admit late FP arrivals (and some also learn about the consequences of that practice.)

But that particular document is very dated. I suspect that the reason people outside of Disney have been able to obtain it, is because it was discarded by a CM at some point.

Well, like I said, as of a day or two after the memo was posted, that document was still available on the hub, confirmed by a CM (buzzCMlightyear). And "dated" is subjective. It is less than 6 years old, and given that it was available less than two weeks ago, it seems to me that it was still a valid document, regardless of age.

 

[vacationclub]

This thread is becoming more and more like the twilight zone...

No, he means the official, non-public site used to communicate information between management and the CMs (all of them). As CF already posted, "The Hub is the official Walt Disney Company Intranet." By definition, it is not for un-official information.

InTRAnet.....as in INTERNAL.

I'm sorry....I'm laughing so hard iit's dificult to type....

"not for un-official information....." for CM's, not for the public. So, does Disney have any official policies.....or are the actual poliies all hidden behind firewalls reserved for insiders only? Do we just disregard every single publish document, advertisement, web site, etc that Disney has ever created to communicate it's official policies to the public? Because, somehwere else, there's also an "official/un-official" private site that may offer their CMs directives on how to execute them?

Many companies will have their own internal communications methods that those who work in the company would say is "official" to them. But they may discuss and post information and directives that may seem to run counter to some of the companies actual, official policies.

Things CAN be official and not public, you know. Official and public mean two different things.

Uh, no, I don't know that. What you put out to the public, is by definition, your official position. Your official stance. Your official statement. It's official because you stood in front of the world and proclaimed your message to them. If a countries leader stands at a podium and proclaims to the world its policies, that makes it the official policy.....period. Just because the country isn't actually practicing that policy doesn't change their "official" stance on the subject.

Just because there is an official policy, doesn't make it actual policy. Which is exactly what was happening with FP (and billions of other examples in the world where organizations may have an official policy that isn't exactly what is actual being practiced).

 

[Butler_chic07]

Well this is interesting. I just spent my whole Sunday catching up...


I also want to say I can understand all aspects. Is this going to ruin Disney for me, no... although it will take some getting used to and some "trial and error" to find how it will work best for us.

I can't wait to hear from the people who are first affected to hear how it actually takes place. It will then give me some time to prepare for July.

The one aspect I worry about - and that others have mentioned - is dining. We don't have kids yet, so I'm not worried about naps or breaks, etc. We do both enjoy food and our table-service meals, I worry because we have to plan those so far ahead of time and really we won't be able to know when to eat so it won't interfere with our fastpasses, but we will figure it out as we go this will truly be a trial year.

In past years we have also park hopped for meals specifically - as we love love love EPCOT and their food, but we may be re-thinking that...

hmmm. I can't wait to hear from the first guests to experience this change!

 

[doconeill]

Here's my final response on the "official" vs. "public", since people will apply whatever definition suits them.

"Public" policy - any policy put forth to the public.

"Official" policy - any policy that prescribes an authorized or authoritative position.

The two do not need to be the same, nor mutually exclusive. The public policy can be more restrictive, as many examples have been put forth. The official policy can be less restrictive, therefore allowing wiggle room in implementation, while still stating limitations. They are both policies. And the internal one meets the definition of official (feel free to check).

However, I know this won't satisfy anyone who simply doesn't want internal policies to mean anything. So again, this thread of discussion is moot.

 

[doconeill]

On a completely separate note...as far as in the parks this weekend, a spy told me:

- 5 out of 5 front-line CMs, when asked about the policy were aware of it, and all were not looking forward to it. Only one mentioned the 15 minute grace period.

- One manager-looking type confirmed the change, and apparently felt "it's the way it should have always been" (I wonder if more manager-types have similar or different opinions)

- None of the 5 seemed to know anything about a new system coming (not surprised - Disney doesn't say much until they absolutely need to). The manager-type seemed to know something but wouldn't say.

- When using a late FP several times, they were all accepted, without a word, except in one case, 6 hours late, the CM just quipped, "a little late there, huh?" Not one mentioned anything to point out that it would be changing...which is what I would have thought managers would want to be done to help get the word out early.

Thanks to my "Agent P" in the field!

 

[kvnchapman]

I have other ideas in mind for dealing with this "change", many of which are predicted upon the length of the return time windows and the printed time of next FP accessibility. My apologies if I missed this info in the previous 1000s of posts. Does anyone in the know (which is a loose term here on the Dis) have imput on these 2 issues?
So far, our new touring stategy, reflective of these changes encompasses the following -
1. Morning ADRs in park only, PRIOR to rope drop in first slot.
2. Always make rope drop.
3. Brown bag snacks and lunches to allow eating while waiting.
4. Get FPs before riding, still using runner.

Dying to know answers to the 2 questions: (1) length of retrun window and (2) ideas fo how quickly one will be allowed to access another FP, specific to the time presently printed on the bottom of each FP???
Thanks!

 

[kvnchapman]

On a completely separate note...as far as in the parks this weekend, a spy told me:

- 5 out of 5 front-line CMs, when asked about the policy were aware of it, and all were not looking forward to it. Only one mentioned the 15 minute grace period.

- One manager-looking type confirmed the change, and apparently felt "it's the way it should have always been" (I wonder if more manager-types have similar or different opinions)

- None of the 5 seemed to know anything about a new system coming (not surprised - Disney doesn't say much until they absolutely need to). The manager-type seemed to know something but wouldn't say.

- When using a late FP several times, they were all accepted, without a word, except in one case, 6 hours late, the CM just quipped, "a little late there, huh?" Not one mentioned anything to point out that it would be changing...which is what I would have thought managers would want to be done to help get the word out early.

Thanks to my "Agent P" in the field!

Doc - check out the previous post (from me). PLZ help with the 2 questions!! TIA!

 

[doconeill]

Dying to know answers to the 2 questions: (1) length of retrun window and (2) ideas fo how quickly one will be allowed to access another FP, specific to the time presently printed on the bottom of each FP???
Thanks!

There has been no word of any changes to the length of the return window printed on the FP or when you can get another FP.

 

[vacationclub]

Here's my final response on the "official" vs. "public", since people will apply whatever definition suits them.

"Public" policy - any policy put forth to the public.

"Official" policy - any policy that prescribes an authorized or authoritative position.

The two do not need to be the same, nor mutually exclusive. The public policy can be more restrictive, as many examples have been put forth. The official policy can be less restrictive, therefore allowing wiggle room in implementation, while still stating limitations. They are both policies. And the internal one meets the definition of official (feel free to check).

However, I know this won't satisfy anyone who simply doesn't want internal policies to mean anything. So again, this thread of discussion is moot.

You're basically saying that the term public policy is completely meaningless.
That even though it's stated and published, it means nothing.
But it doesn't.

Kind of like the speed limit example I pointed out earlier.
What's the official speed limit on a any given road? Is it 55mph? Because that's what the law says. That's what the sign says. that's what the speeding ticket says. I'd say that makes it pretty much the official speed limit.

If the cops let you get away with driving up to 62, is 62 the official speed limit? The published law? NOPE.

If a document from the state troopers gets out that says they don't want road patrols to bother chasing people speeding until they are going over 62, did the law change? Is the official speed llimit now 62? NOPE.

At anytime can the cops or judges decide they will only allow you to drive up to 59MPH instead of 62MPH? YEP.

Does that mean the law, the official document stating, and publicly proclaiming the speed limit, has changed from 62 to 59? NOPE.


The official speed limit is STILL, and always has been, 55MPH.

I could list example of this in everyday situations all day long.... but it doesn't seem to penetrate. Happy driving and fast passing.

 

[thealfi]

I originally did not quite welcome the FP enforcement news. Then I remembered that there was a time when my family and I did not know that you could use FPs after the return time. And then I remembered that we didn't mind rushing back to make it back to the rides by the return time. I still wish that Disney wouldn't enforce the return times. Knowing that I could return anytime to a ride resulted in a more relaxing time in the parks.

Simply, I don't mind the new enforcement.

What if Disney made a new policy where you can only have a FP for one ride at a time? You can return anytime after the stated time window, but unless you use a FP, you can't get another. It might make using FPs more efficient as it would encourage people to use their FPs as soon as they can, and it also gives them the option to return as late as they want. A problem is see from technical aspect is that Disney would have to scan FPs as they are handed to CMs. And that info would have to be sent to the FP machines. It would be slightly more complicated than the automated method Disney uses now with their FP machines. Some tickets might not be properly scanned, etc. Any thoughts?

 

[KellyNY]

Here's my final response on the "official" vs. "public", since people will apply whatever definition suits them.

"Public" policy - any policy put forth to the public.

"Official" policy - any policy that prescribes an authorized or authoritative position.

The two do not need to be the same, nor mutually exclusive. The public policy can be more restrictive, as many examples have been put forth. The official policy can be less restrictive, therefore allowing wiggle room in implementation, while still stating limitations. They are both policies. And the internal one meets the definition of official (feel free to check).

However, I know this won't satisfy anyone who simply doesn't want internal policies to mean anything. So again, this thread of discussion is moot.

Yes, they are both policies, except official and public policy is about how Visitor suppose to act, and Internal rules or policy is how CM suppose to act in different situations when Visitor was unable to meet official and public policy. While both policies are about FPs they are about different aspects here. CMs policy is about reaction on visitor action, nothing else.
Once again, if they wanted FP be valid any time they would never put window on it or do they try to mislead public?

 

[WillAustin]

If the cops let you get away with driving up to 62, is 62 the official speed limit? The published law? NOPE.

But again, that's all semanitics, since what matters is what they actually do in real life.

 

[doconeill]

I originally did not quite welcome the FP enforcement news. Then I remembered that there was a time when my family and I did not know that you could use FPs after the return time. And then I remembered that we didn't mind rushing back to make it back to the rides by the return time. I still wish that Disney wouldn't enforce the return times. Knowing that I could return anytime to a ride resulted in a more relaxing time in the parks.

Simply, I don't mind the new enforcement.

What if Disney made a new policy where you can only have a FP for one ride at a time? You can return anytime after the stated time window, but unless you use a FP, you can't get another. It might make using FPs more efficient as it would encourage people to use their FPs as soon as they can, and it also gives them the option to return as late as they want. A problem is see from technical aspect is that Disney would have to scan FPs as they are handed to CMs. And that info would have to be sent to the FP machines. It would be slightly more complicated than the automated method Disney uses now with their FP machines. Some tickets might not be properly scanned, etc. Any thoughts?

An interesting thought, and potentially doable with the expected changes to incorporate the new system...but then you have to account for lost FPs, etc. If FPs were fully electronic, then they couldn't be lost, either...hmmm...

It's a actually not much different than one possible implementation I thought of for X-Pass based on some early info. The idea was that you didn't choose a return time exactly, but an order you would like to visit the attractions. You could visit the first right away, but then you couldn't visit the next one for a set amount of time later. You could even dispense with the order, but you could only visit the attractions every so often, once.

But there were a number of complications with it, so it seems unlikely.

 

[KellyNY]

Well, now, I wouldn't know about that. I don't have access to The Hub since I'm not a CM. All I can do is take the word of the CMs who have confirmed that policy -- just like I believed the CMs who let me use my FPs outside the window.

In the end, that's neither here nor there. Bottom line: I've done it, and I'll continue to do it until they tell me I can't, and then I'll study the new system and work up the best strategy I can to get the maximum benefit out of it.

If that includes using my FPs up to 5 minutes early or 15 minutes late (as referenced earlier in this thread), I'll do so, as long as it's the official policy to let me (or the unofficial policy of CMs who have the latitude to let me).

At least honest.

 

[vacationclub]

But again, that's all semanitics, since what matters is what they actually do in real life.

Thank you for using the key word....."actual". Yes, that's what matters. The actual policy may not align with the official policy. But it's not semantics. If you ask the politician or county clerk, what is the official speed limit....what do you think they will tell you?

They won't ask if you mean the official policy, or the rule, or the super-secret "hub" policy, or any other synonym being used in this thread. They will tell you the official law (or policy)....is 55MPH, and possibly reference the law posted on the sign, in the hall of records, etc.

But If you ask the state trooper..off the record.....unofficially, what do they actually enforce, they might reveal to you the exceptions made based on directives from behind the scenes....just like the exceptions made at Disney.

 

[doconeill]

Hey, does anyone remember when we went though all this before - last August?

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2783661

We only made it to 59 pages. Of course, it was thought to be Yet Another Unsubstantiated Rumor back then, but all the same arguments were made. The interesting thing was, shortly after this thread started, Disney actually started experimenting with enforcing the policy - not by actually enforcing it, but by telling people they were, and questioning people as to why they were late, to get data. (I posted about it somewhere - I don't think it was here - that they were doing an experiment, backed up by Touring Plans, etc. reports but was actually called a liar!) Back then all the rumblings was that they needed this info for X-Pass.

Oglet then also got more information in December:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2825976

with more rumblings for X-Pass...

So this has been in the works for months...they were in no hurry to implement it though...I think we'll start hearing about more changes soon..

 

[WillAustin]

Thank you for using the key word....."actual". Yes, that's what matters. The actual policy may not align with the official policy. But it's not semantics. If you ask the politician or county clerk, what is the official speed limit....what do you think they will tell you?

They won't ask if you mean the official policy, or the rule, or the super-secret "hub" policy, or any other synonym being used in this thread. They will tell you the official law (or policy)....is 55MPH, and possibly reference the law posted on the sign, in the hall of records, etc.

But If you ask the state trooper..off the record.....unofficially, what do they actually enforce, they might reveal to you the exceptions made based on directives from behind the scenes....just like the exceptions made at Disney.

Whether you call it policy, rule, or an exception, the result was the same.

Exceptions are made all the time for all kinds of things. An exception in any case doesn't make an action that fits within the exception any less proper or valid. Whatever you want to call it, it was most definitely an accepted practice, no matter how widely known it might or might not have been. To me, that's the bottom line.

 

[Wadecool]

Once again, if they wanted FP be valid any time they would never put window on it or do they try to mislead public?

We have now officially come full circle...

Anyone want pick a new, old movie to quote in order to get through the inevitable next 100 pages?

 

[doconeill]

We have now officially come full circle...

Anyone want pick a new, old movie to quote in order to get through the inevitable next 100 pages?

"The circle is now complete. When I left you, I was but the learner; now I am the master."
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000027/
"Only a master of evil, Darth. "