Fastpass Enforcement coming?

[scion5220]

I have "only" read the first 54 pages but am here now in WDW and I have spoken to four CMs and all four of them are dreading the new rule and three of them have said that they think it's a big mistake. (One even said she thought it wouldn't last long.) I will add that two of the CMs brought it up as they were loading rides (test track and i can't remember the other one). So some unsolicited griping and sarcasm from otherwise amiable CMs.

I'm sure they ARE dreading it because they will have to deal with all the unhappy people who have posted on this topic. I worked at a movie theater in college...was it fun telling underage people that they couldn't buy tickets to "R" rated movies? No, but it was my job.

I wonder if management ever uses "undercover tourists" to check on adherence to operational policies? Anyone know?

 

[larryz]

Is it March 7th yet??

 

[doconeill]

I have "only" read the first 54 pages...

Second verse, same as the first...

 

[Mister Skellington]

I'm sure they ARE dreading it because they will have to deal with all the unhappy people who have posted on this topic. I worked at a movie theater in college...was it fun telling underage people that they couldn't buy tickets to "R" rated movies? No, but it was my job.

I wonder if managment ever uses "undercover tourists" to check on adherence to operational policies? Anyone know?

I am quite certain they do. It is called "secret shopping" and my wife does it for vacation money throughout the year. She "secret shops" all sorts of places like grocery stores, banks, car dealerships, hotels, and even National Park Inns. (We have gotten free stays at National Parks with meals etc. included just for letting management know how how service was!)
She has had offers to shop Six Flags and Cedar Fair, so I am sure Disney has their own.

 

[KellyNY]

Just not us or our style, we are very laid back and don't like fancy or romantic dinners. We would much rather be on a ride or at a show than at some overpriced dinner. We have never been on a romantic dinner ever. We are very "redneck" and would rather be at sporting event, an amusement/theme park ,fishing/camping or at a country concert, than a candlelit table with $20 or more meals. I'm not a girly girl and could really care less about those things, we are having a football themed wedding and we are putting on jerseys as soon as we get to the hall. This honeymoon really is more of a vacation than a typical romantic honeymoon for the 2 of us and my future DH first time to WDW. I just don't like the whole ADR in itself, I would not want to know when to plan my meal 6 months in advance to know whether or not I am going to be hungry at noon on wed in the hot orlando summer and then be forced to eat a large sit down meal, even if I had FD. Much rather eat at whatever CS is nearby for the trip when we are hungry even if its burgers, chicken fingers, etc as we eat healthy so all that "fast food" type stuff is a treat to us for a week. Thanks for the suggestion though. We are a very odd, but perfectly matched couple.

Odd, not at all. We also do not like big meals in Florida and absolutely love QS meals. We still do TS but most of them without ADRs, when we are hungry or in a mood for something. I am known for ordering just onion soup and cheese with grapes in France. BTW, do not miss french backery, lots of interesting choices and pretty reasonable prices.

 

[doconeill]

I am quite certain they do. It is called "secret shopping" and my wife does it for vacation money throughout the year. She "secret shops" all sorts of places like grocery stores, banks, car dealerships, hotels, and even National Park Inns. (We have gotten free stays at National Parks with meals etc. included just for letting management know how how service was!)
She has had offers to shop Six Flags and Cedar Fair, so I am sure Disney has their own.

In my younger days I actually did a short stint as a "spy" for my retail employer, going to local competitors and getting price information on same or similar products. In one case I think I had the employees pretty freaked out, as I appeared to be taking notes, happened to be wearing a tie, etc. Some managers asked if they could help me, which I refused, and went on doing what I was doing. I think they were afraid I was from their own corporate offices checking up on them...

 

[heyitsmejosh]

I can’t believe those greedy Disney people expect us to use the fast passes as they were originally intended… .This is OUTRAGOUS!! I can’t believe they would do this to such loyal customers! Not only am I never going to Disney again, I’m also not going to watch ESPN or ABC!

 

[Sammie]

Ah but this is where you have much to learn grasshopper. I fish, and I post on message boards about it and when asked where I catch fish direct them to places far away from my fishin holes. Internet message boards are the breeding ground for counter intelligence activities, hence the reason I believe very little I read on them.

 

[mcd2745]

I haven't been to WDW in a long time, but last time I was there I used FP in the time with no problems, had no ADRs(and never will) and was with 7 people total(2 kids) over July 4th, but we never took breaks. This was before TSM, Soarin, Mission Space and EE, we saw all we wanted in 1 day without having to rush all that much. I know things have changed a lot since then but here's my opinion on the whole late FP use.

I was not planning on using my FPs late for my honeymoon trip in June unless I got held up in a stand by line, show or park traffic that forced me to arrive say 20 mins late. It was more of a backup plan to know FPs could be used late. We have no kids, no ADRs and plan on touring commando style starting at RD, getting FP immediately for headliner and riding non FP rides to wait for window while getting second FP before we ride our FP ride, we only really plan on riding each ride once, unless we see a short wait later on for something we really liked,I don't see us having any issues for arriving on time.




Basically from reading this thread all the intentional late FP users want to have their cake and eat it too, meaning want to keep using their FPs late, keep all their ADRs, keep taking breaks, and avoid long SB lines. They don't want to change their touring style and ok it might lessen some of your magic but some of us are just glad we can even go to WDW once every 5-10 yrs, and even get FPs for some attractions as I have read they run out for some very early. You will need to make adjustments and who knows what kind of plan Disney has in store for their new system of lessening wait time.

Agreed 1000%. There was just another thread a couple of days ago about the "all about me" culture, and this fits with that.

As far as the zero sum theory while mathematically it works, some guests will benefit earlier but the rule abiding FP users will wait longer later as well as SB guests, so it's not zero sum for all guests experiences.

Just my 2 cents, bash or critique if you wish.

Exactly, it's a zero sum game in totality, but not for each individual. Talking about how someone else earlier in the day benefited from the practice is just an attempt to justify the negative impact (however small - the level of impact doesn't matter and saying it does is only another justification) caused on other people later in the day and nothing more - probably because they know that while it's technically playing by the rules, it's not exactly 100% kosher. They're basically robbing Peter to pay Paul but only focusing on the paying Paul half of the equation and blocking out of their minds the fact that they robbed Peter or saying they only robbed a nickel or dime so it's no big deal - but it's still stealing..

 

[White_Sox_Fan]

Agreed 1000%. There was just another thread a couple of days ago about the "all about me" culture, and this fits with that.





Exactly, it's a zero sum game in totality, but not for each individual. Talking about how someone else earlier in the day benefited from the practice is just an attempt to justify the negative impact (however small - the level of impact doesn't matter and saying it does is only another justification) caused on other people later in the day and nothing more - probably because they know that while it's technically playing by the rules, it's not exactly 100% kosher. They're basically robbing Peter to pay Paul but only focusing on the paying Paul half of the equation and blocking out of their minds the fact that they robbed Peter or saying they only robbed a nickel or dime so it's no big deal - but it's still stealing..

Oddly (not that anyone would believe me) but I am all about fairness and am not really an "all about me person". As far the 100% kosher comment, I do not see how it's not kosher, they set the rules I followed. I didn't keep it a secret for myself, I told all my friends that went to Disney as well as people I didn't even know. Once again, their rules not mine.

The argument regarding the positive impact earlier in the day is really just a logical approach which shows how the overall experience for the day is little impacted by late FP usage, I'm sorry if that somehow escapes you.

Anyone familiar with the Ridemax software will know that the theory in their design in not to hit each attraction when the line is short at that attraction, as this is impossible, instead they look at your overall wait in line for the day and attempt to minimize it. Embrace this approach.

 

[KellyNY]

.

The argument regarding the positive impact earlier in the day is really just a logical approach which shows how the overall experience for the day is little impacted by late FP usage, I'm sorry if that somehow escapes you.

Just like it escapes you again and again that on individual level it means absolutely nothing, while delay means a lot.

 

[Wadecool]

Not only am I never going to Disney again, I’m also not going to watch ESPN or ABC!

That's the spirit.

 

[BNM]

I find it interesting that, just a few weeks ago, using FP throughout the day was widely touted as an appropriate strategy for touring. I read this over and over again, any time someone was contemplating a trip at a very busy time. Someone would always recommend collecting fp for use later. And it was "dont forget they are good until the end of the day!" touringplans also had this as important component of their plans, which will now need to be changed. They are waiting until the policy change is confirmed, btw. Now that there is a rumor that FP return times will be enforced (has anyone seen official confirmation from Disney?), we're all a bunch of selfish degenerates for actually doing this.

Sorry, I am only looking at these boards in an effort to make my vacation the best it can be. So I guess it's "all about me". And I respectfully request membership to the inconsiderate oafs club.

For those of you going next month, do us a favor and report back on whether this policy is actually being enforced, and if so, how much BETTER your overall experience now is. I'm guessing there will be NO difference.

Disney will get lots of complaints, though. Unless they are quickly able to roll out something better than the current FP, which I am still hoping they will.

 

[White_Sox_Fan]

Just like it escapes you again and again that on individual level it means absolutely nothing, while delay means a lot.

No I get it, I believe I have conceded that an individuals wait time in the standby line can be effected by late fastpass users. I also pointed out how, on fast loaders, this extra wait is insignificant, especially when compared to the total amount of time you wait in line for a day. I also pointed out how late FP use can get more people through the standby lines earlier in the day. Disney is an experience not one attraction, you have to look at the whole, while you want to drill down the smallest unit.

As myself and others have stated, based on Disney's own information, it would appear some type of second generation FP is coming and it appears that a higher percentage of capacity is going to be dedicated to it's use. With this the need for tighter return times becomes necessary for obvious reasons. This is why they are know going to enforce return times. There is no evidence to support that current late FP usage is an overwhelming problem.

I believe that Disney would like to have people return at their appointed windows but have allowed the late FP usage for as long as I can remember. Neither the reason why they allow it, nor the original intent of fastpass, have anything to do with the discussion, the system is what the system is. I believe they keep the window on the ticket because of the social engineering effect. They realize that even people "in the know" will use there FP's in there return window because of some kind of social guilt factor.

Thus it comes down to this, many people in this thread have made several logical and sound reasons why late FP usage has little effect on the overall system and experience. We have also acknowledged that is possible that one persons individual experience may be adversely effected but that it is not a significant effect. I feel that the reason you and others will not accept any of our points is that you have chosen to make this about some type of morality in which we are cheats and scammers while you are upstanding and rightious. This is a trump card I cannot beat for no matter how good a case anyone makes you feel that we are cheating the system.

The change will happen, we'll wait and see what Disney rolls out next and adjust and plan from there.

Have a great day!

 

[BNM]

No I get it, I believe I have conceded that an individuals wait time in the standby line can be effected by late fastpass users. I also pointed out how, on fast loaders, this extra wait is insignificant, especially when compared to the total amount of time you wait in line for a day. I also pointed out how late FP use can get more people through the standby lines earlier in the day. Disney is an experience not one attraction, you have to look at the whole, while you want to drill down the smallest unit.

As myself and others have stated, based on Disney's own information, it would appear some type of second generation FP is coming and it appears that a higher percentage of capacity is going to be dedicated to it's use. With this the need for tighter return times becomes necessary for obvious reasons. This is why they are know going to enforce return times. There is no evidence to support that current late FP usage is an overwhelming problem.

I believe that Disney would like to have people return at their appointed windows but have allowed the late FP usage for as long as I can remember. Neither the reason why they allow it, nor the original intent of fastpass, have anything to do with the discussion, the system is what the system is. I believe they keep the window on the ticket because of the social engineering effect. They realize that even people "in the know" will use there FP's in there return window because of some kind of social guilt factor.

Thus it comes down to this, many people in this thread have made several logical and sound reasons why late FP usage has little effect on the overall system and experience. We have also acknowledged that is possible that one persons individual experience may be adversely effected but that it is not a significant effect. I feel that the reason you and others will not accept any of our points is that you have chosen to make this about some type of morality in which we are cheats and scammers while you are upstanding and rightious. This is a trump card I cannot beat for no matter how good a case anyone makes you feel that we are cheating the system.

The change will happen, we'll wait and see what Disney rolls out next and adjust and plan from there.

Have a great day!

Nice try but this makes a little too much sense. Welcome to the Inconsiderate Oafs Club. You are in good company.

 

[White_Sox_Fan]

Nice try but this makes a little too much sense. Welcome to the Inconsiderate Oafs Club. You are in good company.

I believe I am the founder!

 

[WillAustin]

.Thus it comes down to this, many people in this thread have made several logical and sound reasons why late FP usage has little effect on the overall system and experience. We have also acknowledged that is possible that one persons individual experience may be adversely effected but that it is not a significant effect.

Some of us don't care whether the effect is significant or not.

 

[mom2rtk]

Some of us don't care whether the effect is significant or not.

We know.

 

[KellyNY]

No I get it, I believe I have conceded that an individuals wait time in the standby line can be effected by late fastpass users. I also pointed out how, on fast loaders, this extra wait is insignificant, especially when compared to the total amount of time you wait in line for a day. I also pointed out how late FP use can get more people through the standby lines earlier in the day. Disney is an experience not one attraction, you have to look at the whole, while you want to drill down the smallest unit.

As myself and others have stated, based on Disney's own information, it would appear some type of second generation FP is coming and it appears that a higher percentage of capacity is going to be dedicated to it's use. With this the need for tighter return times becomes necessary for obvious reasons. This is why they are know going to enforce return times. There is no evidence to support that current late FP usage is an overwhelming problem.

I believe that Disney would like to have people return at their appointed windows but have allowed the late FP usage for as long as I can remember. Neither the reason why they allow it, nor the original intent of fastpass, have anything to do with the discussion, the system is what the system is. I believe they keep the window on the ticket because of the social engineering effect. They realize that even people "in the know" will use there FP's in there return window because of some kind of social guilt factor.

Thus it comes down to this, many people in this thread have made several logical and sound reasons why late FP usage has little effect on the overall system and experience. We have also acknowledged that is possible that one persons individual experience may be adversely effected but that it is not a significant effect. I feel that the reason you and others will not accept any of our points is that you have chosen to make this about some type of morality in which we are cheats and scammers while you are upstanding and rightious. This is a trump card I cannot beat for no matter how good a case anyone makes you feel that we are cheating the system.

The change will happen, we'll wait and see what Disney rolls out next and adjust and plan from there.

Have a great day!

Affect always exists it is not "may" or "possibly", and it is the crucial part of this discussion. While affect may or may not big great, nobody really knows, the very existance of it makes it wrong. You said Disney created system to manage lines, got it but who puts late FPers in charge to affect other people experience. It is one of those situations when few benefit at expense of many. Like would you find it acceptable to trick million people by just $1, would it mean that much to them to loose just $1? Same principle here.

The thing about this thread, late FPers deny this affect or pretend it is not that great, to justify themselves, they are perfectly aware that this was just a loophole, plenty of evidences to that, yet cry that now their experience affected. So in other words they cry about not being able to take advantage of us no matter how small or big this advantage is and expect us show compassion. Realy?

As for why time window is on the FP, simple, this is when you have to return. Anything else is pure speculation based on urban legents that someone said something at some point. Just think about it this way, if it was intended for people return any time, it would put on official FP and if it happen, FP line would be simply unorgonized, you would not be able to know when people decide to show and create another line, FP line, and it would simply zero FP purpose, so you can see only scheduled FP can really work.

As for why it is done now. I also suspect it is because of XPasses, yet we both speculate here as there is nothing in memo on this but there is very clear they are talking about faireness of FP use. How much system got off rails in 13 years only they know and I suspect with the level this info was shared, chances are it got out of control pretty bad. I know, I speculate right now but there are good chances for that. We also do not know why they came out with NextGen in a first place, maybe to fix the FP problem, who knows. I must say I am not a fan of scheduling my rides in advance but scheduling part aside, XPass should make experience better, no running for FPs, no conflicts with ADRs, just show on time and with few exceptions of unforseen delays you should have a great trip. In this concept I believe enforcing FP return times is sort of training for all the numerous late FPers out there who lost their ability to plan. JMO.

 

[White_Sox_Fan]

Affect always exists it is not "may" or "possibly", and it is the crucial part of this discussion. While affect may or may not big great, nobody really knows, the very existance of it makes it wrong. You said Disney created system to manage lines, got it but who puts late FPers in charge to affect other people experience. It is one of those situations when few benefit at expense of many. Like would you find it acceptable to trick million people by just $1, would it mean that much to them to loose just $1? Same principle here.

The thing about this thread, late FPers deny this affect or pretend it is not that great, to justify themselves, they are perfectly aware that this was just a loophole, plenty of evidences to that, yet cry that now their experience affected. So in other words they cry about not being able to take advantage of us no matter how small or big this advantage is and expect us show compassion. Realy?

As for why time window is on the FP, simple, this is when you have to return. Anything else is pure speculation based on urban legents that someone said something at some point. Just think about it this way, if it was intended for people return any time, it would put on official FP and if it happen, FP line would be simply unorgonized, you would not be able to know when people decide to show and create another line, FP line, and it would simply zero FP purpose, so you can see only scheduled FP can really work.

As for why it is done now. I also suspect it is because of XPasses, yet we both speculate here as there is nothing in memo on this but there is very clear they are talking about faireness of FP use. How much system got off rails in 13 years only they know and I suspect with the level this info was shared, chances are it got out of control pretty bad. I know, I speculate right now but there are good chances for that. We also do not know why they came out with NextGen in a first place, maybe to fix the FP problem, who knows. I must say I am not a fan of scheduling my rides in advance but scheduling part aside, XPass should make experience better, no running for FPs, no conflicts with ADRs, just show on time and with few exceptions of unforseen delays you should have a great trip. In this concept I believe enforcing FP return times is sort of training for all the numerous late FPers out there who lost their ability to plan. JMO.

It is only unfair if everyone does not have access to the same system, they do. Thank you, however, for proving my point.

That is all.