Fastpass Enforcement coming?

[doconeill]

Good, that's means I'm doing something right, because if it were wrong you would jump all over it. Please, ignore it just like the memo.


I have no issue with anything you say, you are entitled to your opinion. Why would I have a problem with that?


You may have seen those leaks somewhere else, but I am willing to bet that you saw that info in those threads first. You said the same thing about seeing the memo "days" before Chesire Figment posted it. I don't believe that and I don't believe this. Otherwise, you would have been the first to start a new thread about it or at least pass it along.

I never said you couldn't form your own conclusions. That's not what I meant, it was just an observation. I wanted to make sure that andyman8 and MrZRich were acknowledged for the information they found and were so kind to pass along, first. Is that a crime? I'm not sure why you are taking it so personal, its nothing against you really. Again, I have no issue with you or your posts.

I have never ignored the memo. I just don't see the same things you see in it. It confirmed the date, if not the exact implementation of the enforcement (likely handled separately to those CMs who actually deal with it). I also pointed out that it also conflicts with the other document that was still available. And I'm not looking at it with the narrow focus that "late FP is bad, so therefore..."

I did see it before Cheshire Figment posted it. I didn't not say that I had personally seen it on the Hub, or anything of the sort. In fact, it may have even been in this thread, or one of the several others. CF was not the person who posted it first. It may have been BuzzCMLightyear, actually...I do not remember offhand exactly, but it was posted before. I never claimed otherwise.

You seemed to take exception that I drew from other sources, since you called it out. The people you cite have their own threads - in fact, I've participated in them. I apologize to them for not having referenced them specifically, but I don't think it has any bearing on the discussion.

 

[cm8]

Nothing like a fast-pass smack down early in the am Get'em Kellz

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

You seemed to take exception that I drew from other sources, since you called it out. The people you cite have their own threads - in fact, I've participated in them. I apologize to them for not having referenced them specifically, but I don't think it has any bearing on the discussion.

Okay, fair enough. For the record, I do appreciate the fact that you are nice enough to pass along any info you come across and I am certainly not suggesting that you have to cite your sources. The apology was very nice, but I didn't think it was necessary, but it was very nice of you to do that. As mentioned earlier, many readers appreciate your help and valuable insight.

 

[doconeill]

Okay, fair enough. For the record, I do appreciate the fact that you are nice enough to pass along any info you come across and I am certainly not suggesting that you have to cite your sources. The apology was very nice, but I didn't think it was necessary, but it was very nice of you to do that. As mentioned earlier, many readers appreciate your help and valuable insight.

Thank you...and please be aware that I am not trying to deny you your opinions - I'm trying to point out that there is a much bigger picture out there, which all the "official" and unofficial information still fits in once you distill it, that can provide other conclusions.

 

[doconeill]

So instead of going on vacation you were in a virtual queue that has no ending....

Liz

More like stranded on IASW, with the same song, different languages...except one side of the river says one thing, and the other side of the river says something different, and it's just noise in the middle...

 

[KellyNY]

I could not resist to check this thread again, I looked at the FP print out again and this is what I noticed,

The only moment when CM is instructed to tell visitor that FP is good after window is when ride is down. I wonder if all those CMs who were spreading the word were actually breaking internal rules and this is actually why some never did. On one of my first visits we had ADR and my DD also wanted to ride SM first (first day, first ride thing). Our FP window was pretty close to ADR(I did not know back then I can use FP later). So I asked CM if it possible to use FP like 15 min earlier, I knew it was not allowed but I asked anyway. I told him about ADR and he of course said, sorry, cannot help, but he did not tell me I can go with ADR and come back later. I see it, combined with what read on FP print out as a proove that they were not suppose to tell about using FP late. I wonder if all those CMs who openly spread the word right when you got FP like many people claimed here, are just poorly trained CMs.

I also wondering how many people used 1 less FP in a group loophole, because this part if done on purpose is a pure cheating and I never saw this tip on any site and even did not know it exists.

 

[magicbob]

The only moment when CM is instructed to tell visitor that FP is good after window is when ride is down. I wonder if all those CMs who were spreading the word were actually breaking internal rules and this is actually why some never did.

If the ride is down when someone returns WITHIN the time window, the CM is instructed to "assure" the guest the FP can be used later. That is because of the rule above it that states a FP can be used after the window. Period. There are no conditions listed for accepting a FP after the window. Nowhere does it say to keep it a secret that FP can be used after window. So, no... CMs were not breaking the rules by informing guests of this policy.

he did not tell me I can go with ADR and come back later. I see it, combined with what read on FP print out as a proove that they were not suppose to tell about using FP late. I wonder if all those CMs who openly spread the word right when you got FP like many people claimed here, are just poorly trained CMs.

No, the CM you encountered was the poorly trained one. So, just because one CM DIDN'T tell you that you could come back later (which you could) is proof that CMs are not allowed to tell this fact to guests????

I also wondering how many people used 1 less FP in a group loophole, because this part if done on purpose is a pure cheating and I never saw this tip on any site and even did not know it exists.

There is a VAST difference between this and using a FP after the printed window. And if you would be intellectually honest, you'll see why this proves that "late" FP use is not a moral issue (i.e., wrong to do). In order to take advantage of the "lost FP loophole" a guest would have to lie about having had a FP and lost it. That would be immoral/wrong. However, the rule that allows using a FP after the window does not involve lying or cheating. It states that a FP may be used after the window. Period. If the rule stated that a FP may be used late IF you were stuck on another ride and you lied about being stuck on a ride in order to take advantage of this policy, THEN it would be wrong because you would have lied and, yes, abused the system. However, the policy does not place any such conditions on returning after the window, so there is no lying/cheating, etc. involved.

I know I will never convince you that operating within the system and doing something that was deemed allowed and acceptable by Disney was ok. Fortunately, now that Disney is going to change the rule, you can feel vindicated in your moral superiority, knowing that we WERE cheats and now Disney is finally giving us our comeuppance.

 

[Mister Skellington]

I know I will never convince you that operating within the system and doing something that was deemed allowed and acceptable by Disney was ok. Fortunately, now that Disney is going to change the rule, you can feel vindicated in your moral superiority, knowing that we WERE cheats and now Disney is finally giving us our comeuppance.

As an unofficial member of the Oaf club I concur.

If you will excuse me, I need to go look for some tax loopholes.

 

[magicbob]

To be honest I try not to let it bother me, I am on vacation. I understand there are plenty of reasons someone needs to step out of line and you cannot always say if person was in this line or not. The only time I can actually say something is if person is rude and just pushing his way. Other then that I will not even pay attention.

Ok. I'll admit up front the quote above is from a different thread. But HOW ON EARTH can you take the stance that it's no big deal when people cut in line ahead of you, but have taken such a hard line stance on how late FP return is a mortal sin that ruined your vacation????

 

[Wadecool]

I have to ask, are you his mom? Are we not all adults here? Can Doconeill not speak for himself? Why do you feel the need to confront me on his behalf? Do you not have your own opinions? What are *your* feelings regarding matter? Please share them, I think it would great and add to the "conjecture".

I am not related to Doconeill in any way, and yes he can clearly speak for himself as shown by the amazing job he's done thus far in breaking down this subject. It looked as if you were taking a hard stance toward him in earlier posts but that is clearly not the case as evidenced by your most recent interactions, so my apologies.

My opinions: I have happily used FP's later in the day during past trips because that is what I was instructed to do by Disney CM's. Because of that instruction by paid Disney personnel, I do not believe that I or anyone else who used FP's in this manner were breaking any rules or scamming the system. Since using FP's late will no longer be allowed after March 7th, I will adapt my touring plans and move on. Nothing earthshaking in my opinions, and I didn't even need to use red fonts to get my message across.

 

[KellyNY]

1. If the ride is down when someone returns WITHIN the time window, the CM is instructed to "assure" the guest the FP can be used later. That is because of the rule above it that states a FP can be used after the window. Period. There are no conditions listed for accepting a FP after the window. Nowhere does it say to keep it a secret that FP can be used after window. So, no... CMs were not breaking the rules by informing guests of this policy.

2. No, the CM you encountered was the poorly trained one. So, just because one CM DIDN'T tell you that you could come back later (which you could) is proof that CMs are not allowed to tell this fact to guests????

3. There is a VAST difference between this and using a FP after the printed window. And if you would be intellectually honest, you'll see why this proves that "late" FP use is not a moral issue (i.e., wrong to do). In order to take advantage of the "lost FP loophole" a guest would have to lie about having had a FP and lost it. That would be immoral/wrong. However, the rule that allows using a FP after the window does not involve lying or cheating. It states that a FP may be used after the window. Period. If the rule stated that a FP may be used late IF you were stuck on another ride and you lied about being stuck on a ride in order to take advantage of this policy, THEN it would be wrong because you would have lied and, yes, abused the system. However, the policy does not place any such conditions on returning after the window, so there is no lying/cheating, etc. involved.

4. I know I will never convince you that operating within the system and doing something that was deemed allowed and acceptable by Disney was ok. Fortunately, now that Disney is going to change the rule, you can feel vindicated in your moral superiority, knowing that we WERE cheats and now Disney is finally giving us our comeuppance.

1. No, it does not say keep you mouth closed but it also does not say spread the word. So, it is open to interpretaions here. BTW, I wonder how many CMs were spreading word about one less FP.

2. Did I say it my case is actually a proove? However while some guests heard it from CMs many did not. It is possible they are not trained but it is also possible they were breaking rules, can you absolutely say whith is true, I can't.

3. I did not bring one less FP example to connect it with late FPs, I was just wondering how many people knew, and how many heard it from CMs.

4. What with this ridiculous statements? I do not feel a need to be vindicated, nor I feel any superior then anyone else, yet I can still discuss the topic, don't you think? I do think late FP were just a loophole but Disney allowed it, so be it, they do not allow it now, so be it. I feel like some people think that if we find using loophole wrong, we all dancing here now and evil laugh because now we are vindicated. Is it a preschool or something? I just do not get those comments.

 

[WillAustin]

BTW, I wonder how many CMs were spreading word about one less FP.

Apparently far less than those doing it for late windows. As I've said before, I've personally heard over a dozen CMs say the FPs were good until park close, and we have only made two trips to WDW.

 

[KellyNY]

Ok. I'll admit up front the quote above is from a different thread. But HOW ON EARTH can you take the stance that it's no big deal when people cut in line ahead of you, but have taken such a hard line stance on how late FP return is a mortal sin that ruined your vacation????

I suggest to read this thread or at least if you want to follow me around READ what I said on another thread.

I never claimed that my trip was ruined because of late FP. I claimed that late FP affects everyone in the line, including me, but ruined vacation is a bit extreme. Cannot tell the same about some people who claim they have no idea how to tour without late FP anymore or even claimed they will never go back, so...

I did not say cutting is right as well, I said I do not let it bother me on vacation. I said I cannot tell for sure who was in line before and I do not plan waste my vacation investigating and confronting people. Is there something wrong with that? Does cutter affects me, yes, does late FP affects me, yes. I have all the rights to talk about it. Am I aware of both situations when on vacation, yes. Am I going to do something about it, stopping people, getting upset, xray FP line or anything like that, absolutely not. So what exactly you find confusing?

 

[magicbob]

I suggest to read this thread or at least if you want to follow me around READ what I said on another thread.

I never claimed that my trip was ruined because of late FP. I claimed that late FP affects everyone in the line, including me, but ruined vacation is a bit extreme. Cannot tell the same about some people who claim they have no idea how to tour without late FP anymore or even claimed they will never go back, so...

I did not say cutting is right as well, I said I do not let it bother me on vacation. I said I cannot tell for sure who was in line before and I do not plan waste my vacation investigating and confronting people. Is there something wrong with that? Does cutter affects me, yes, does late FP affects me, yes. I have all the rights to talk about it. Am I aware of both situations when on vacation, yes. Am I going to do something about it, stopping people, getting upset, xray FP line or anything like that, absolutely not. So what exactly you find confusing?

But apparently someone cutting in line doesn't bother you, while someone using a late FP was building their perfect vacation at your expense (see below). Your other posts on this subject are quite clear that late FP use was something that affected your vacation very negatively. You may not have used the exact word "ruined" but your accusations are there for everyone to see. Those using late FP are thoughtless and gaming the system and negatively impacting you in the process. So, I say again, why does it bother you so much when you are not bothered by someone cutting in line? Isn't it worse to engage in line cutting (which is against Disney policy) than to use a FP which is allowed?

And again, who put late FPer in charge to decide if it is important or not to me and they can build their perfect vacation at my expense?

 

[nytimez]

Each time someone posts on this thread, God kills a kitten.

 

[Wadecool]

Each time someone posts on this thread, God kills a kitten.

I guess that's one way to cull the herd.

 

[KellyNY]

Apparently far less than those doing it for late windows. As I've said before, I've personally heard over a dozen CMs say the FPs were good until park close, and we have only made two trips to WDW.

I think it maybe got more open in last few years. I was on another board years ago and to be honest we never shared it openly. I was quiet surprised when I saw how open it is on this board and even more surprised when I googled FP operational reminders document posted here when someone claimed it does not exist, and search returned tons of sites all spreading the word, except Disney site of course. I think all this info is what killed the secret, unfortunately like many other secrets.

As for one less FP, last trip when I had only one FP for TSM and gave it my DD, CM asked if I do not want to ride and I told her "no, I do not have FP", she let me in. She said something like "you only need one FP..." I did not really paid attention, but to be honest she did not went in all rules thing with me and I took it like extra magic for me. Wonder how other CMs presented it(talking about one less FP).

 

[KellyNY]

But apparently someone cutting in line doesn't bother you, while someone using a late FP was building their perfect vacation at your expense (see below). Your other posts on this subject are quite clear that late FP use was something that affected your vacation very negatively. You may not have used the exact word "ruined" but your accusations are there for everyone to see. Those using late FP are thoughtless and gaming the system and negatively impacting you in the process. So, I say again, why does it bother you so much when you are not bothered by someone cutting in line? Isn't it worse to engage in line cutting (which is against Disney policy) than to use a FP which is allowed?

Didn't I already explain when and how it bothers me? Did you read what I said? You can try to put as many horrible words in my mouth as you wish, but does it really makes them my words? Go on, draw conclusions, try to guess my personality, you are on your own. I only play with big boys.

 

[origin62]

A question for the "moral police"........

Let's say you work in the service industry.......you're a hair stylist. There is a huge sign in the salon that says, "We will not accept post dated checks". It's clear as day for the customer to see. A customer comes in & when it's time to pay says that she forgot her wallet with her cash & credit cards. She only has her checkbook but funds won't be available until Friday & it's only Wednesday.

You are aware of the policy but an "internal memo" has been issued stating that while we publicize that we won't accept post dated checks, to avoid any issues with the customer you are able to accept them if the customer has no other form of payment. You tell the customer you will accept the check this time but in the future please provide another form of payment.

Are you "wrong & unfair" to the other customers for doing what management has told & allowed you to do. Would it be better to confront the customer by pointing to the sign & telling them you can not accept the check. You are in reality disobeying management if you don't accept the check. How fair is that to others though that may see the sign, realize they don't have cash or a credit card & must somehow make other arrangements for payment because they don't know of the "internal memo".

The thing is, if a Disney guest that knew FP's could be accepted late encountered a CM that told them they could not use their FP late & asked to speak to a manager, the manager would most likely override what the CM said & allow the guest to enter. I would imagine that the CM would then be "talked to" about how FP's could be accepted late & reminded of the internal memo.

I still fail to see how it has anything to do with fair or unfair. I've used them late, I'll use them late next week if I miss my window for any reason, or give them to someone else that will use them late. When I return in April, I'll use them on time or end up throwing them in the garbage if I'm not going to use them.

I see two differences between your scenario and FP usage:

(1) Allowing that customer to write a post-dated check has no impact on any of the other customers at the salon.

(2) The customer in question was not handed a ticket upon arrival that read, in bold, black print: "no post-dated checks, please."

 

[kvnchapman]

While I'm sad that my family needs to change our touring strategy, I am interested to see what Disney eventually offers with a "new" FP system. Our new strategy will still consist of rope drops (in fact, they will become even more crucial) and the continued use of organized, research-based touring plans. The dynamics in our group require the use of babyswap (twins, nonetheless) and a GAC. We don't do a tremendous amount of sit-down dining, and will now do less in an effort to "not waste" valuable riding/watching time by sitting. Our breakfast ADRs will be done at the earliest time slot (before park opening) so that we will be in place to FP/ride/FP/ride, etc. We will send a runner to get FPs before we get on a ride so that the ticker will be going and we can accquire our 2nd set of FPs as soon as possible. We will more carefully use Hoppers, only utilizing them if the time it takes to transfer parks makes sense of their use. Our family will do more "brown bag" lunches, so we can eat in line or while strolling. Oh, and I will be open and willing to trade FPs with other families if the timing makes sense for both groups. Anyone else have thoughts on how they will tour differently under the new/enforced/whatever you want to call it system?