Fastpass Enforcement coming?

[magicbob]

Twisted, very twisted. It does not have to be at intersection in your state because you saw it printed in rules. As for me I will not turn in a state I am not familiar with, I will not follow your example as I do not know if you break rules or it is allowed. But my point is rule is printed and if I decide to do some research before I travel I will find OFFICIAL rules. If I decide to research FP, I will find tons of site that will present Late FP use a biggest secret ever but Disney official site and FP itself will state return window and not a word about late use. Do you see the difference?

Again, you are unintentionally proving my point. The "printed" rules are in an obscure place that most have not seen (just as the policy of allowing FP after the window is). You don't know if right on red is allowed, so when you see me do it, you assume I am a scofflaw. You refuse to follow my example and turn on red because you are a better person than I. When, in fact, you are holding up traffic behind you because of your ignorance of the rule and/or moral superiority complex.

Allowing late FP WAS the OFFICIAL rule. Nowhere have I seen this being tauted online or anywhere else as the "biggest secret ever." It is openly discussed as being Disney's official policy to accept them.

Again, just because it is not printed on the FP, does not mean it is not policy. The official policy of accepting "late" FP is printed elsewhere (akin to the driver manual mentioned earlier). By your logic, turning right on red is not the policy because it only exists in some obscure reference that not everyone has seen.

Since the traffic analogy seems to elude you, here's another example:

The tax code contains many provisions for taking deductions. Not everyone knows about all of the deductions they are entitled to and many miss out on taking them. Because I researched and educated myself on the official policy and am aware of these deductions, am I "abusing" the system by taking advantage of deductions that others don't know about? By your logic, I should have to pay higher tax even though I am allowed to take the deductions because each and every deduction is not printed in bold letters on form 1040.

 

[KellyNY]

I hereby interrupt this thread to post the following announcement:

kelly kelly kelly kelly kelly kelly kelly , k e l l y......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hJjx7jTHA8

OMG, I even look like her, you evil, evil genius.

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

Again, you are unintentionally proving my point. The "printed" rules are in an obscure place that most have not seen (just as the policy of allowing FP after the window). You don't know if right on red is allowed, so when you see me do it, you assume I am a scofflaw. You refuse to follow my example and turn on red because you are a better person than I. When, in fact, you are holding up traffic behind you because of your ignorance of the rule and/or moral superiority.

Allowing late FP WAS the OFFICIAL rule. Nowhere have I seen this being tauted online or anywhere else as the "biggest secret ever." It is openly discussed as being Disney's official policy to accept them.

Again, just because it is not printed on the FP, does not mean it is not policy. The official policy of accepting "late" FP is printed elsewhere (akin to the driver manual mentioned earlier). By your logic, turning right on red is not the policy because it only exists in some obscure reference that not everyone has seen.

Since the traffic analogy seems to elude you, here's another example:

The tax code contains many provisions for taking deductions. Not everyone knows about all of the deductions they are entitled to and many miss out on taking them. Because I researched and educated myself on the official policy and am aware of these deductions, am I "abusing" the system by taking advantage of deductions that others don't know about? By your logic, I should have to pay higher tax even though I am allowed to take the deductions because each and every deduction is not printed in bold letters on form 1040.

I think your a little off base here -

the better analogy would be if you read the whole tax code and nowhere did it say your tax deduction was allowed, and therefore you concluded it wasn't, only to find out that certain government employees posted internal emails in an internet forum and also verbally told you it was, in fact allowed.

wouldn't the logical question be: why isn't that in the code so everyone knows this clearly?

 

[doconeill]

It specifically points that the reason is MORE people using it and therefore a need to make it fair. We do not even know exactly how XPass will work and what will be needed for preperation. So we can only take memo as is, and in this case it is infact a proove that current system does not work well anymore.

You wanted to see official Disney explanation that something is wrong, she showed the best we have so far.

While you and me as well may see it as sort of experiment, we speculate all the way here, while reasons were stated in black and white.

See, I don't see anywhere where the memo states that anything was wrong.

Here is where we seem to be reading it two different ways. You seem to be saying more people ARE using it. I read it as more people WILL be using it. It's actually difficult for more people to be using it now than in the past - they haven't added any attractions that use it or need it, or apparently increased the numbers being issued (to the contrary, the numbers were reduced at TSM due to load rate changes). So they seem to be anticipating more use soon. If there is more use, then there could potentially be issues, and therefore this is a move to prevent them before they start.

 

[KellyNY]

Again, you are unintentionally proving my point. The "printed" rules are in an obscure place that most have not seen (just as the policy of allowing FP after the window is). You don't know if right on red is allowed, so when you see me do it, you assume I am a scofflaw. You refuse to follow my example and turn on red because you are a better person than I. When, in fact, you are holding up traffic behind you because of your ignorance of the rule and/or moral superiority complex.

Allowing late FP WAS the OFFICIAL rule. Nowhere have I seen this being tauted online or anywhere else as the "biggest secret ever." It is openly discussed as being Disney's official policy to accept them.

Again, just because it is not printed on the FP, does not mean it is not policy. The official policy of accepting "late" FP is printed elsewhere (akin to the driver manual mentioned earlier). By your logic, turning right on red is not the policy because it only exists in some obscure reference that not everyone has seen.

Since the traffic analogy seems to elude you, here's another example:

The tax code contains many provisions for taking deductions. Not everyone knows about all of the deductions they are entitled to and many miss out on taking them. Because I researched and educated myself on the official policy and am aware of these deductions, am I "abusing" the system by taking advantage of deductions that others don't know about? By your logic, I should have to pay higher tax even though I am allowed to take the deductions because each and every deduction is not printed in bold letters on form 1040.

How do I proove your point, really? How can you possibly see it? I am talking about official print of rules, you keep saying what I may or may not think if you follow rules I know nothing about. Did not you read what I posted? Can you find official print for red light or your tax deductions, can you find same about FP? You can give 100 more examples but it does not change fact that there is no Official Info that I can use FP late.

 

[KDilly]

I think your a little off base here -

the better analogy would be if you read the whole tax code and nowhere did it say your tax deduction was allowed, and therefore you concluded it wasn't, only to find out that certain government employees posted internal emails in an internet forum and also verbally told you it was, in fact allowed.

wouldn't the logical question be: why isn't that in the code so everyone knows this clearly?

Well put...

-KD

 

[KellyNY]

See, I don't see anywhere where the memo states that anything was wrong.

Here is where we seem to be reading it two different ways. You seem to be saying more people ARE using it. I read it as more people WILL be using it. It's actually difficult for more people to be using it now than in the past - they haven't added any attractions that use it or need it, or apparently increased the numbers being issued (to the contrary, the numbers were reduced at TSM due to load rate changes). So they seem to be anticipating more use soon. If there is more use, then there could potentially be issues, and therefore this is a move to prevent them before they start.

There is no word "will" there, am I right? They did turn some attractions into FP attractions, was it Nemo or something. They do not say more FP actually, but do you know internal statistics on how many used FP 5 years ago and how many do it now to say no, more people do not use it now. They want to make it fair now, in present, meaning fixing something that is unfair now, how else can we understand very simple English without getting all lawers on it.

 

[doconeill]

There is no word "will" there, am I right?

"As more guests take advantage..." implies more guests will be using Fastpass or a similar system to me.

They did turn some attractions into FP attractions, was it Nemo or something.

Nope. They experimented with some FPs for the shows at AK. Nothing more.

They do not say more FP actually, but do you know internal statistics on how many used FP 5 years ago and how many do it now to say no, more people do not use it now.

True, but it is my belief that they have not increased the numbers of FPs available as the numbers are carefully calculated. There certainly does not seem to be any evidence that there has been a marked increase in them.

They want to make it fair now, in present, meaning fixing something that is unfair now, how else can we understand very simple English without getting all lawers on it.

That is your reading of it. My reading is different. Enough said.

 

[magicbob]

it does not change fact that there is no Official Info that I can use FP late.

But there IS! It's just that the official info was not printed on the FP itself. You maintain that if it's not ON the FP, then it's NOT policy, but this is just plain wrong.

 

[KellyNY]

But there IS! It's just that the official info was not printed on the FP itself. You maintain that if it's not ON the FP, then it's NOT policy, but this is just plain wrong.

Really? Search official Disney site, tell me what you find there. I think you have a strange understanding of what is official and what is inner rule on how to handle crowds.

 

[Wadecool]

I did not say someone bad mouthing CF but was not what he posted questioned?

Drdisneymd posted to show official Disney explanation, nothing else, so what exactly did not work? You may or may not take it as official, but so is FP print out and this is double standarts then. Either take it all in or reject all of them, but you cannot be really selective here. That is my point.

I still have absolutely no idea what your point is. I guess that means you win.

John Blutarsky said it best: "Seven years of college down the drain. Might as well join the Peace Corps."

 

[electricsoup]

CMs vary. Not all communicate well. We are also not saying that they all day announce at the top of their lungs that you can use them later in the day. But they have, and when asked, would tell you.

Your experience on being refused, unfortunately, is by far the exception rather than the norm.

Of course - I don't expect absolute consistency. I suppose I just read the pass as printed, with a time window I could return in and didn't question. In the long run this seems as if it's going to serve me well here.

 

[magicbob]

I think your a little off base here -

the better analogy would be if you read the whole tax code and nowhere did it say your tax deduction was allowed, and therefore you concluded it wasn't, only to find out that certain government employees posted internal emails in an internet forum and also verbally told you it was, in fact allowed.

wouldn't the logical question be: why isn't that in the code so everyone knows this clearly?

Your analogy and your final question may be valid, but that still means there is nothing wrong with taking the deduction just because EVERYONE doesn't know that it is, in fact, the policy. That's where I disagree with the "FP police" who maintain that it is somehow "breaking the rules" even though it is within the policies established by Disney.

Disney could have established a policy to allow FP up to one hour late. Or two. Or not at all. Disney CHOSE to establish the policy that a FP is good until park closing, which means that A FP IS GOOD UNTIL PARK CLOSING. It is not breaking the rules to use a FP within this established policy. On March 7th, the policy will change. At that time, FP will no longer be valid EXCEPT for within the time window printed on the ticket. After that, if CM still allow late use even though the policy is to NOT allow it, THEN it becomes an enforcement issue. But under the current rules/policies, a FP is good until park closing. Period. Just because every guest at WDW isn't aware of the policy doesn't mean that operating within those guidelines is "abusing" the system. It is operating WITHIN the system as it was established by Disney.

An example of "abusing" the FP system would be if you were acquiring already used FPs from a CM and using them again (which apparently was occuring several years ago). Or if the CM did not make you surrender your FP and you used it again. In this instance you're abusing the system, operating outide of the policy that, although the FP may be used until park closing, it is only supposed to be used ONCE. Taking advantage of the late acceptance policy to use your FP more than once violates the policy and would be abuse. Using the FP within the established policy is not abuse.

 

[doconeill]

Really? Search official Disney site, tell me what you find there. I think you have a strange understanding of what is official and what is inner rule on how to handle crowds.

Exact policy and procedure does not need to be published publicly. I'm pretty sure there is a policy against tackling Goofy on Main St., but that's not published anywhere either.

If you ARE going to publish something, it cannot be less restrictive than what actual policies are. It can be MORE restrictive, and that can be done for a variety of reasons.

 

[Reddog1134]

Nope. They experimented with some FPs for the shows at AK. Nothing more.

I think she meant Living Seas.

 

[KellyNY]

1 "As more guests take advantage..." implies more guests will be using Fastpass or a similar system to me.


2 Nope. They experimented with some FPs for the shows at AK. Nothing more.

3 True, but it is my belief that they have not increased the numbers of FPs available as the numbers are carefully calculated. There certainly does not seem to be any evidence that there has been a marked increase in them.


4 That is your reading of it. My reading is different. Enough said.

1. Speculation, they are talking in present tense about present system.

2. Shows, meet and greet.

3. Speculation, all they say more people take advantage, nothing else and we do not know how number of informed guests increased.

4. I try to read it as simple as possible, you reading between the lines. That is the whole difference. You make assumption based on what else you know but text itself does not provide any hints.

 

[doconeill]

I think she meant Living Seas.

No FPs there either.

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

Your analogy and your final question may be valid, but that still means there is nothing wrong with taking the deduction just because EVERYONE doesn't know that it is, in fact, the policy. That's where I disagree with the "FP police" who maintain that it is somehow "breaking the rules" even though it is within the policies established by Disney.

Disney could have established a policy to allow FP up to one hour late. Or two. Or not at all. Disney CHOSE to establish the policy that a FP is good until park closing, which means that A FP IS GOOD UNTIL PARK CLOSING. It is not breaking the rules to use a FP within this established policy. On March 7th, the policy will change. At that time, FP will no longer be valid EXCEPT for within the time window printed on the ticket. After that, if CM still allow late use even though the policy is to NOT allow it, THEN it becomes an enforcement issue. But under the current rules/policies, a FP is good until park closing. Period. Just because every guest at WDW isn't aware of the policy doesn't mean that operating within those guidelines is "abusing" the system. It is operating WITHIN the system as it was established by Disney.

you know mr. magicbob...you really are going to great lengths to ferret out everone's approval for your loophole abuse.

I kid, I kid!

also, for some reason music runs through my head a lot when scrolling these boards....for you sir the song Magic Bus by The Who has been queued in my brain, and for that, I am thankful since I love The Who.

 

[Reddog1134]

No FPs there either.

http://www.epcyclopedia.com/2012/01/25/epcot-seas-pavilion-to-add-fastpass/

 

[doconeill]

Correcting myself - they did add Fastpass for the Mickey and Princess meet and greets last year. But by the same token they've greatly reduced use at the Indy Stunt Show and VOTLM to almost nothing, eliminated it at LMA 5 years ago (even though they still advertise it on the web site), and removed it from PhilharMagic.

1. Speculation, they are talking in present tense about present system.

2. Shows, meet and greet.

3. Speculation, all they say more people take advantage, nothing else and we do not know how number of informed guests increased.

4. I try to read it as simple as possible, you reading between the lines. That is the whole difference. You make assumption based on what else you know but text itself does not provide any hints.

Honestly, no more speculation than you have that they are doing it because something was wrong.

I think we're done here.