Fastpass Enforcement coming?

[doconeill]

Not sure why they would have to do polling? Any manager could tell you that it probably is a problem. Any "suit" could stand at Space Mt. and watch how many people to in thru the FP line from 7-8/9-10 or whatever a couple times a week and see that there are more people going thru that should and it is causing problems in the stand by line and with people who go the correct time thru the FP line. I will admit we have used our FP beyond the stated time becauswe knew WDW allowed it. In fact, we once used them a whole year later just to see if we could (and yes we could).

And they could have done this ten years ago, and if they did, and saw it was a problem, could have fixed it. They have YEARS of data on this. They don't see a problem.

 

[DisneyFive]

But Dan, the only problem with your scenerios is that you are forgetting that you always have options.
Yes it stinks to take away a bit of flexibility but your flexibility clogs up the system for every one else. If I'm understanding the issues disney is having with the fp system correctly.

I understand your frustration but seriously unfortunately this is about choices.
Yes now you have to make a choice, do I want to watch LMAM or do I return and do a ride.
Now basically when you get your fast pass and you see it's during your lunch adr now you have to make a choice.

Does the fast pass kios have a return time over the machines? I thought they did.
When we get our fast passes, we glance and see what the return time is, then we make a "guesstimate" on whether or not we want to get one. In your TSM example especially at rope drop we rarely get the fp because we've found out that while most folks are trying to get fp, the standby line moves really well. last august the standby line said 35 mins but in reality it was 22 minutes.

I always park hop and not sure how this will effect our touring plan as we simply return when our window says we can.

no worries venting, but I think like any thing else disney rolls out, people adjust.

Has anyone heard any office word as to WHY disney is changing the policy? That may make this more understandable. Have they done any type of polling that says maybe all those 1 pm fp's returning at 7 pm creates issues?

Thanks for the reply eliza61.

I'm just raising awareness to the new choices that will exist because of this policy. This isn't just my style of touring. Many others, as witnessed by this thread, tour in a very similar way. (perhaps naps in the afternoon, getting FP's in the morning to use later...) Whereas before, we didn't have to choose one or the other, now we will have to decide if we take that FP and give up the other option.

Yes, the wait times are posted, but that was one of my points. You don't know that time window until you walk all the way to the ride. Wheras before, if the exact time window didn't work when I showed up, I would still get a FP if I wanted to ride that attraction later than that window. The idea of going to do something else in order to buy time and let the FP window eventually get the my preferred time window, then coming back to get a FP is something I don't want to do. I know, perhaps we have been spoiled, but I truly don't think it was causing the problems that others on here seem to think.

Regarding the comment that my FP usage (and others) clogged up the system for everyone else. Yes, that is speculation and I'm not sure it is accurate, or even why Disney is making this change. I happen to think it's needed to prepare for the new x-pass to work correctly. I'm not sold on the idea that usign FP's later than the window causes a big problem with clogging the system later in the day (when supposedly everyone uses late FP's). This goes against all the ride crowd calendars, measured and predicted, for wait times throughout the day. They all show wait times ramping up from park open and peaking between roughly 3-5 pm and then the ride times GET LESS as the evening progresses. Touringplans.com has some great charts showing this.

Also, I fail to see how stand-by wait times can get that far off, as some on here have mentioned, unless someting goes wrong. The CM's are constantly handing out those red badges to carry with you through the queue to adjust the stand-by times. I've found them to be accurate throughout the day in my experience, both in stand-by and fp lanes.

Dan

 

[maxiesmom]

Let's see how they feel about it the week it starts after they start getting yelled at and complained too.

I'm sure they are used to be yelled at by idiots. Part of working with the public nowadays, unfortuately.

John Q Public will get used to having to follow the time window soon enough. It is the adjustment period that will be a bear.

 

[doconeill]

I have friend who works on one of the coasters. She says this "will be a great help in keeping all of the wait times shorter."

I haven't the foggiest idea how any of this will make wait times shorter. It's all a zero-sum game no matter what. The attraction has a fixed capacity. People who want to ride it will either have a FP or be in the standby line at some point. The introduction of FP made the standby line physically shorter, but not the wait time.

Yes because we watched them while we were at the front of the SB line. DH even commented to a CM why were they letting in so many FP people and not letting SB people go. He said the FP line was too long and they had to keep it going. When we were finally let thru (a party of 5), the party behind us could not go. They let more FP people thru.

Were you checking all their FPs for their return times? Were they all late? If they were, was there an operational issue that prevented them from using their FPs earlier? Or were they all on time, just happened to be clumped together?

 

[savannahcat]

I haven't the foggiest idea how any of this will make wait times shorter. It's all a zero-sum game no matter what. The attraction has a fixed capacity. People who want to ride it will either have a FP or be in the standby line at some point. The introduction of FP made the standby line physically shorter, but not the wait time.

I agree, but I didn't want to start an argument with someone I haven't seen since high school.

 

[White_Sox_Fan]

I have friend who works on one of the coasters. She says this "will be a great help in keeping all of the wait times shorter."

I can't think of any logical argument that would make this true.

Yes because we watched them while we were at the front of the SB line. DH even commented to a CM why were they letting in so many FP people and not letting SB people go. He said the FP line was too long and they had to keep it going. When we were finally let thru (a party of 5), the party behind us could not go. They let more FP people thru.

A rush in the FP line doesn't mean that any significant number of this people are using "late" FP's. There is an hours worth of FP's that can be valid at any given moment.

 

[doconeill]

Finally dug this up. This is a simplified example of late FP vs. Standby times.

Remember, there is a difference between "wait times" and "ride times". Wait time is how long you specifically waited in a line. Yes, those get affected. But the "ride time" is the time you actually get to ride, regardless of the wait time.
----

Here is a simplified illustration of how Fastpass vs. Standby users might get loaded in to a basic attraction. For the purposes of this illustration, the attraction has a capacity of 2000 guests an hour, and in the illustration, "*" and digits represent 200 standby users, and the "F" represents 200 FP users.

FP return times are given only on the hour (i.e. 12-1, 1-2, 2-3, etc.), and all FP guests are taken before standby guests.

Now if everyone shows up at the first possible return time:


12--------1---------2---------3
FFFFF1****FFFFF2****FFFFF3***4



Now in the above, every group of FP users shows up at the beginning of the window. So the first group of 200 in the standby line (labeled #1) in the noon group rides at roughly 12:30, #2 at 1:30, etc. #4 rides just before 3pm.

Now, let's say that 3 groups of the FP users at noon instead show up at 2pm:



12--------1---------2---------3
FF1****2**FFFFF**3**FFFFFFFF*4


OK, look how it changed. Standby group #1 got to ride a 18 minutes earlier: 12:12. As did group #2. Group #3 moved up a TON: they gained 48 minutes, and ride at 1:42 instead of 2:30.

The key is group #4. They still ride just before 3:00.

What DOES happen is group #4 sees the line stagnate longer, and the posted "wait" time (which remember, is not what you are truly going to wait, but what someone who most recently got up to the front of the line waited) will likely have been shorter than their true wait time. But that happens for lots of other reasons as well.

 

[Albytaps]

I'm sure they are used to be yelled at by idiots. Part of working with the public nowadays, unfortuately.

John Q Public will get used to having to follow the time window soon enough. It is the adjustment period that will be a bear.

The only idiots that will be yelling are the ones used to cheating the system. Just because they were getting away with it before doesn't mean that's the way it should remain. If someone cuts the line and gets away with it is it ok to keep doing it? Just follwo the rules and it will be ok. Remember (as I've heard this used in other themes) if you don't like it, no one is forcing you to use it.

 

[WDWMom]

And they could have done this ten years ago, and if they did, and saw it was a problem, could have fixed it. They have YEARS of data on this. They don't see a problem.

10 years ago there was only 7,000 users on the DIS(or whatever year I registered). Now there are how many???? I can't see the number now, but we all know that 10 years ago there were not that many people knowledgeable about using the FP past its stated time. Because of the internet, so many more people know. So it many not have been a problem when first implemented, but they must see the problem now since they are changing it.

I'm still amazed at how many selfish people are out there and don't understand how the current rules are screwing it up for others and are only thinking about how this change is going to ruin their vacation. People, get over it. You will adjust. Your vacation will be just as magical. (this is not in response to the PP I quoted)

 

[doconeill]

The only idiots that will be yelling are the ones used to cheating the system. Just because they were getting away with it before doesn't mean that's the way it should remain. If someone cuts the line and gets away with it is it ok to keep doing it? Just follwo the rules and it will be ok. Remember (as I've heard this used in other themes) if you don't like it, no one is forcing you to use it.

You are making several assumptions with your statement.

No one was cheating the system. It was fully, 100%, totally allowed. Your opinion of it does not change that fact.

It was in no way cutting the line, and continued use of that analogy is a waste of time. The correct analogy is actually being in line, standing aside, and letting people go in front if you for a while, then taking up a position in line again. No harm was actually done...but it is the perception of harm on the part of the people who see this, and have no idea that that person would have been in line ahead of them anyways.

I'm fine with them changing the rules. I just want to know why, and if it makes sense for them to do so. I've said before - I've only once in the 12 years of Fastpass gotten a FP knowing I'd be late for it. Why, even though I know it is perfectly fine? Because I want to ride sooner than later, as with the vast majority of guests.

 

[doconeill]

So it many not have been a problem when first implemented, but they must see the problem now since they are changing it.

This is a false argument. "They are making a change so it must have been broken."

Yes, they are making a change. It does not need to be because anything was broken.

 

[Reddog1134]

The only idiots that will be yelling are the ones used to cheating the system. Just because they were getting away with it before doesn't mean that's the way it should remain. If someone cuts the line and gets away with it is it ok to keep doing it? Just follow the rules and it will be ok. Remember (as I've heard this used in other themes) if you don't like it, no one is forcing you to use it.

Except that you are not cheating the system when they tell you it's acceptable to do so.

But I understand your statement. The ones complaining are the ones that cannot accept changes in policy that they feel have a negative effect on them.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Actually, we visit WDW, approximately 2-3 times a year.. and have done so, over 30 years. Yes, there have been many changes in these areas. There is a whole " big, long thread" on this subject. So, I'm NOT alone in this opinion

Wow...I don't think it's possible for you to be more off base..

Flowers - It is truly amazing how often WDW swaps out flowers for different seasons and the landscaping at the parks is nothing short of breathtaking. there's probably millions of flowers at WDW and it is incredible the attention they pay to this detail. For one, walk down the Canada pavillion towards Le Cellier and look around. For another, the GF had a bouquet the size of small automobile at the top of the grand staircase last week. Gorgeous. there are too many other examples to get into.

Merchandise - have you even been to WDW recently? every resort has resort specific merchandise only found at that resort. I don't recall seeing ToT stuff sold anywhere but at the shop at Tot...same for RNRC, SM and others...you want Christmas stuff? you have two choices: DTD and MK. The sheer volume of merchandise is MINDBLOWING...what more could you possibly want?

Dining - so ....what are you saying? the French Onion soup at Chefs de France can be had elsewhere? Don't think so. Neither can the short ribs. or anything on that menu. tell me all the places you can get a lobster roll at WDW? or is it just Columbia Harbor House? How about dole Whip? Are those everywhere? I could go one and on and on. BUT, if you are saying you eat french fries and chicken fingers then yes I agree, those are generic.

Tarps/Chipped paint - so let me get this straight - you are simultaneously criticizing WDW for both the wear and tear on paint, and also the fact that they have to fix it ? This is idiocy of the highest order.

Broken rides/ride closures - see previous point.

oh....and Have a Magical Day!

 

[Albytaps]

The FP ticket wouldn't give a window if it wasn't supposed to be used that way. Just because it was never enforced doesn't mean you can just erase the window. It's there, as plain as day.

 

[WDWMom]

I haven't the foggiest idea how any of this will make wait times shorter. It's all a zero-sum game no matter what. The attraction has a fixed capacity. People who want to ride it will either have a FP or be in the standby line at some point. The introduction of FP made the standby line physically shorter, but not the wait time.



Were you checking all their FPs for their return times? Were they all late? If they were, was there an operational issue that prevented them from using their FPs earlier? Or were they all on time, just happened to be clumped together?

We obviously didn't ask everyone, but the family we were on the ride with said they didn't get on earlier because it was too cool earlier in the day to get soaked. They decided to wait until it was warmer. Can't remember what time their FP was but it was in the morning. Now I can't believe they were the only ones smart enough to do that. This was in April during spring break so it was probably the week before or after Easter which is very busy.

 

[doconeill]

Wow...I don't think it's possible for you to be more off base.

Flowers - It is truly amazing how often WDW swaps out flowers for different seasons and the landscaping at the parks is nothing short of breathtaking. there's probably millions of flowers at WDW and it is incredible the attention they pay to this detail. For one, walk down the Canada pavillion towards Le Cellier and look around. For another, the GF had a bouquet the size of small automobile at the top of the grand staircase last week. Gorgeous. there are too many other examples to get into.

Merchandise - have you even been to WDW recently? every resort has resort specific merchandise only found at that resort. I don't recall seeing ToT stuff sold anywhere but at the shop at Tot...same for RNRC, SM and others...you want Christmas stuff? you have two choices: DTD and MK. The sheer volume of merchandise is MINDBLOWING...what more could you possibly want?

Dining - so ....what are you saying? the French Onion soup at Chefs de France can be had elsewhere? Don't think so. Neither can the short ribs. or anything on that menu. tell me all the places you can get a lobster roll at WDW? or is it just Columbia Harbor House? How about dole Whip? Are those everywhere? I could go one and on and on. BUT, if you are saying you eat french fries and chicken fingers then yes I agree, those are generic.

Tarps/Chipped paint - so let me get this straight - you are simultaneously criticizing WDW for both the wear and tear on paint, and also the fact that they have to fix it ? This is idiocy of the highest order.

Broken rides/ride closures - see previous point.

oh....and Have a Magical Day!

I missed this post earlier...just had to respond...

Merchandise...resort specific merchandise? Have you NOT noticed that most of the resort specific merchandise is gone, in favor of generic merchandise? Yes there is still some, but very limited. Gone are all the resort specific shirts, etc. All I can think of offhand are resort pins and cheap trinkets.

Dining - yes, most of it is unique, but there are various other things that are generic. Most kids meals are generic, including those dog-awful chicken nuggets that even my chicken-nugget-luvin' DDs won't touch. And when I was at the Poly and had what I thought was a unique "Pina Colava" drink one night...then the next night, lo and behold it's available at Boma...and then at the Dawa Bar at AK...and at the resort bar at Beach Club...and at CR...

 

[DisneyFive]

The only idiots that will be yelling are the ones used to cheating the system. Just because they were getting away with it before doesn't mean that's the way it should remain. If someone cuts the line and gets away with it is it ok to keep doing it? Just follwo the rules and it will be ok. Remember (as I've heard this used in other themes) if you don't like it, no one is forcing you to use it.

FYI, no one has been getting away with anything. No one has been cutting. The rules have allowed it, and late FP use was even promoted by Disney (if you go back and look at the two youtube videos posted earlier).

Dan

 

[doconeill]

The FP ticket wouldn't give a window if it wasn't supposed to be used that way. Just because it was never enforced doesn't mean you can just erase the window. It's there, as plain as day.

And I'm not going to repeat yet again why it is actually there...read the thread.

 

[nytimez]

FYI, no one has been getting away with anything. No one has been cutting. The rules have allowed it, and late FP use was even promoted by Disney (if you go back and look at the two youtube videos posted earlier).

Dan

You just don't get it, Dan. Albytaps makes the rules -- not you and certainly not those people who think they run the parks.

At least, that's what the space lizards told me.

 

[Reddog1134]

The FP ticket wouldn't give a window if it wasn't supposed to be used that way. Just because it was never enforced doesn't mean you can just erase the window. It's there, as plain as day.

But there's a difference between "never enforcing it" and "actively encouraging guests to use late FPs" which is what they have done on many many occasions.

The park has specific closing times but they still allow guests to shop and enjoy attractions that they are already in line for. Do you feel guests that are in the park after official closing time are taking advantage?

"Yo, ho, yo, ho a pirates li...attention guests the Magic Kingdom is now closed. Please gather your belongings and exit the boat."