Fastpass Enforcement coming?

[Liandro]

OMG, I just googled Xpass, I tried to find some official info and you have no idea how many articles are out there and how much people hate it.

You do know that some private clubs also use Xpasses?

 

[Sammie]

I think what some are not realizing when they say Disney is just getting greedy, this is all about the money, they have lost sight of the guest, is that some of us do not have a problem with this change at all.

So to us Disney has not done any of what some are accusing them of.

The funny thing is when Fastpass came out in 99 there was just as much hue and cry about it then.

This too will pass.

 

[Liandro]

Yeah, it's pretty much going to be this discussion x900 when those details eventually come out.

Personally, I have no problem with it. If there's an option to pay to have additional benefits I don't see what the problem is.

I'll probably come off sounding like a privileged jerk but if I have the money and want to spend it I don't see a problem with me getting additional perks.

Those same people will also have comments if they go to a bakery and see you buy and get a cake. In their world everyone has to be equal poor and you do not deserve a cake while they "only" get bread for their money.

 

[bkoehl]

Wow, seriously?

Sometimes it's not about math, it's about life. A line at a store that takes longer then you thought, a character who popped out that you want to see, a dinner that ran late, a FP line that ran long, a parade you didn't anticipate, a bathroom break that you needed to take, a distraction (which Disney furnishes in abundance) that you wanted to take part in, a show a kid wanted to see and got picked to particpate in, a break that needed to be taken... Or, frankly, the desire to be on a vacation and enjoy the park as the experiences pop up, using the FP system as it was intended (because in the end it makes more $$$ for Disney to give me the option to go wander around as opposed to wait in a line), and not be one of those families who do Disney under duress with the promise of very scheduled, perfectly planned out moments where enjoyment can, will, and should occur.

YES!!!

 

[bairdbeth]

What a hilariously ridiculous premise that people who are CONSUMERS to a vacation destination expressing displeasure at a hypothetical policy change of the destination they are paying to visit are spoiled. Some people are in such a "bubble" when it comes to Disney that they don't get that the consumer is the boss. That's how the free market works. A consumer cannot be spoiled. It's not a charity.

Disney makes the rules. Consumers choose to go and follow those rules or they don't go. The consumer does influence the decisions Disney makes as it is a business and profit is the goal. However, consumers can become accustomed to and spoiled by deep discounts when the economy is down.Today, Disney reported earnings are up for it's parks and resorts. Reading the boards there are many consumers who are acting like spoiled children and threatening to stop going to WDW because they cannot get the 40% discount or free dining or use their mug from 2006 or collect fastpasses early in the day to use later in the day (past the return time printed) I don't live in a bubble and being a Disney stockholder, I am glad to see that Disney's profits are up. Sorry to those who have become spoiled(and I have been one of them), but there will be less discounts and other changes or rule enforcements. If the changes are not profitable for the company then Disney will revamp. So the statement that the consumer is the boss at WDW is incorrect. Disney is in control. They make the rules and enforce them as they may. They do want to keep the consumer happy, but within reason. Changes happen and our "me" society will just have to put on their big boy or big girl panties and deal with it. By the way, if Disney were a charity it would be bowing down to whatever someone wanted so that the consumer would donate money (which would not give you anything other than a good feeling about helping others) Disney is out to make money and they do that by providing a magical place and charging for that experience. I, for one, still find the magic and choose to go with the flow. For those who don't like the changes, don't go. Spend your money elsewhere. That could influence Disney to make different changes or it may have you determine that you miss the magic and want to return. To each their own.

 

[Liandro]

Disney makes the rules. Consumers choose to go and follow those rules or they don't go. The consumer does influence the decisions Disney makes as it is a business and profit is the goal. However, consumers can become accustomed to and spoiled by deep discounts when the economy is down.Today, Disney reported earnings are up for it's parks and resorts. Reading the boards there are many consumers who are acting like spoiled children and threatening to stop going to WDW because they cannot get the 40% discount or free dining or use their mug from 2006 or collect fastpasses early in the day to use later in the day (past the return time printed) I don't live in a bubble and being a Disney stockholder, I am glad to see that Disney's profits are up. Sorry to those who have become spoiled(and I have been one of them), but there will be less discounts and other changes or rule enforcements. If the changes are not profitable for the company then Disney will revamp. So the statement that the consumer is the boss at WDW is incorrect. Disney is in control. They make the rules and enforce them as they may. They do want to keep the consumer happy, but within reason. Changes happen and our "me" society will just have to put on their big boy or big girl panties and deal with it. By the way, if Disney were a charity it would be bowing down to whatever someone wanted so that the consumer would donate money (which would not give you anything other than a good feeling about helping others) Disney is out to make money and they do that by providing a magical place and charging for that experience. I, for one, still find the magic and choose to go with the flow. For those who don't like the changes, don't go. Spend your money elsewhere. That could influence Disney to make different changes or it may have you determine that you miss the magic and want to return. To each their own.

As the old saying goes:"Costumer is king,but the business is the Emperor".

 

[cymbaldiva]

Ack, really?!?!?!?!? If you have an ADR at the time posted on the Fastpass return board, you skip out on FP and wait in that 120 + minute line. Surely you don't go during peak season???? Wow......

No, I do not visit during peak season - wouldn't even consider it.

 

[morethananyonex]

Everytime this topic comes up it never fails to amaze me how so many supposed "Disney Experts" do not understand the way FP works. Waiting to use a pass until after the return window is not cutting. Say I go to Toy Story Mania at rope drop and get in the stand by line, I wait in the line until I am at the front at which point I step aside and let people who were behind me pass me and ride. I stand there for a couple hours letting people ride ahead of me and then decide to finally ride, so on I go. There is no negative impact to the people currently behind me. If I had chosen not to step aside the people who I allowed to pass by me would have rode the ride one person behind when they did, however you (who rode a couple hours later) are still waiting for the same amount of people to ride before your turn.

When using a FP late, you are "stepping aside" in line and letting the people behind you ride and then deciding to ride whenever you choose (but after the proper wait time has passed). As long as people do not ride early, as a whole the system isn't effected.

Also, what's with the attitude that people can't complain or question when they aren't directly paying for something? Fastpass is not offered by Disney because of the kindness in their hearts, they do it because it benefits them. It is a service indirectly paid for by the guests. Sure they don't have to offer it, but they don't have to maintain the rides or put on firework shows and parades either. It's all part of the product people pay for when they take a Disney vacation. I guess by those standards no one is allowed to complain about quality of the attractions in the parks, transportation, cast members, etc. because they are "benefits" and "perks" provided by Disney. Disney (or any company) would not do something for customers that didn't also benefit them in some way.

But long story short, I highly doubt this change is coming because late comers are screwing up the FP lines. People who are happy with this change are probably going to be slightly disappointed when they don't see a difference in the lines (before the new system, at least). Let's just hope they don't throw fits too .

 

[cymbaldiva]

"I cannot think of one benefit that changing (enforcing end times) will have If someone can point out a benefit, I'd be happy to hear it."

To keep you in the park, in the restuarants and shops. They don't want you hoarding fastpasses (and that is what some of you are doing), leaving the park (and taking your wallet with you) and returning later in they day only to ride rides and not shop and not eat. By enforcing the time they want you to extend your park time for all day, not just a portion of it. Remember, Disney is about separating your money from your wallet. Stiffly said, but truthful.

I've never been a fan of FP (yes, I use it, but I guess I am one of the stupid ones who actually uses it during the return time window), and on my last trip, now I know why. I arrived at MK around 3 in the afternoon. Space Mountain FP were gone, I got a FP for Splash Mountain for 9:30 - 10:30, and by the time I could get another FP, BTMM were gone, PP were gone, Dumbo were gone, and I forget what else, but most of them were gone.
So, I decided I had to do stand by. Well, stand by waits, by 7PM were out of whack. I went in the JC standby line that said 20 minutes. Well, an hour later I finally got to ride and now I know why, it was all those late arriving FP users who were coming through by the dozens. They weren't counted in when calculaing the stand by time because the stand by time had calculated that all of the 2PM returns, for example, had already come through. BTMM at least said 45 minutes, and that was accurate as BTMM uses two tracks, one dedicated to FP and dedicated to standby, so the line moved pretty regularly.

All of the standby queues in the evening were much longer because of late FP returns. The line for Splash Mountain said 30 minutes at 10:00 PM when I returned, but I am sure it was much longer. The number of FP people returning were far more than what was in that 10:00 PM window. I felt for those who were right at the point where the FP return met the standby queue and they looked annoyed as dozen upon dozen of FP riders were let by, and I bet many of those were well past the 10PM return time.

FP was designed for line smoothing throughout the day, I don't believe it was designed for people to stack them up and then go through them in a couple of hours in the evening.

For all you FP hoarders, and those lamenting how their touring plans our now ruined, what did you do before FP?

Nostaglia time, (feel free to ignore) our best trip to Disney was in 1999, before FP and well before ADR. We could walk into Epcot and eat at Rose and Crown, or Germany, or Italy with a same-day reservation, eat at Prime-Time or Sci-Fi Drive In by making a reservation when we walked into the park. We managed our day by standing in line, like everyone else. One line, for all customers, managed equally. We had a great trip. Did everything we wanted, ate everywhere we wanted, saw all the parades and shows and rides. And were successful, even without FP. No trip since has been as much fun (every trip is fun, but on degrees, just not as much fun). You could just be more spontaneous, which is really funny if you knew me and how much of a planner I actually am!.

IMHO, it just takes the fun out of it when I have to figure out where I want to eat 6 months in advance. I don't know what I'm having for dinner tomorrow (today is taken care of), much less 6 months from now. In the future, then, is Disney wanting me to plan what time I want to ride Soarin, or Star Tours 6 months in advance too?
Yes, been to Disney 5 or 6 times since 1999, and no trip has ever matched that magical week back in 1999. Now we eat outside the parks and only get snacks at the parks, we use FP, but we return at the specified times, and if we can't, then we don't get the FP until we can use it. The further down reservation road (Gen X system) Disney goes, IMHO, the more they take the fun out of the parks.
Not saying I won't go (where else can I ride Star Tours), but some of the fun has been taken out.

Dolby1000

Sorry I'm late to the party on this - LOVE this post!!

The years I look back on most fondly were 94 - 99 .... good times

 

[cymbaldiva]

I've seen this question answered at least twice on this very thread (and I haven't even been paying close attention.)

You'll have to forgive me - I have yet to have seen an answer. Perhaps there is a quote you could share or a post #?

 

[recmouse]

It is probably coming and if it does it will be the last time I go....I remember when universal used the Disney style FP machines and it was great. When they went to the "class" system" (those who can afford it, get it) It ruined it. We can afford to stay on Property at both Disney and universal but we can stay longer by staying off property. We choose more time...
If Disney goes to Universals FOL method, I will be spending my time WAY off property on the island of Maui. It could be worse....lol

THANK YOU! Although I'm a DVC member... not everyone can afford or chooses to stay on property. Some people don't have the luxury of going to Disney for a week or so. Many people can't afford, especially currently, to stay in a Deluxe resort. It does sound like a 'class system' if they are given FP's or whatever over other guests. A family that stays at a Value Resort isn't as valuable? They may spend the same amount of money but just in a differnt way.

I can't imagine what the threads will be like if Disney goes to charging for a FP system. God help us!

 

[maxiesmom]

I disagree...that most will be pleased. Disney seems to have forgotten the Magic and their only concern is with profit margins. I'm not pleased with the changes, Iger has wrought. Many areas have suffered, but sadly, too many accept the loss in service and quality. They will defend Disney...at all cost.

If you think letting the guest do whatever they want, without any consequences is magic, then you are right.

All Disney is doing is trying to reign the guest in a bit. Make an ADR? You should have some honest intention of using it, and not making 4 a day because you don't know what park you will be in. Want Deluxe dining? You better really want to stay at a Deluxe resort, and not just book one night to get two days of awesome dining. Want free pop refils? You had better have received that mug this trip, and not 4 trips ago, or get it with your Big Gulp cup.

The ways guests take advantage (or in truth, scam a bit) Disney are numerous. And not one of them reeks with Magic. There is a big difference between giving awesome customer service and letting the customer cheat and take advantage of you. Most of what people are complaing about is Disney closing loopholes they were using to take advantage. Had nothing to do with taking magic away.

 

[Nayan]

If you think letting the guest do whatever they want, without any consequences is magic, then you are right.

All Disney is doing is trying to reign the guest in a bit. Make an ADR? You should have some honest intention of using it, and not making 4 a day because you don't know what park you will be in. Want Deluxe dining? You better really want to stay at a Deluxe resort, and not just book one night to get two days of awesome dining. Want free pop refils? You had better have received that mug this trip, and not 4 trips ago, or get it with your Big Gulp cup.

The ways guests take advantage (or in truth, scam a bit) Disney are numerous. And not one of them reeks with Magic. There is a big difference between giving awesome customer service and letting the customer cheat and take advantage of you. Most of what people are complaing about is Disney closing loopholes they were using to take advantage. Had nothing to do with taking magic away.

I couldn't have said it better .

 

[JudimouseNC]

As far as FP is concerned, we rarely use them so this will not directly affect us. I do feel bad for the folks who have gotten used to the system the way it is, but, change is hard. I surely hope ya'll don't let it ruin your vacations and your love of Disney. Seems silly over a little piece of paper. We have been going to WDW for decades and we did ok before FP on seeing everything we wanted to.

Most of the folks on these boards plan like heck for their vacations....and should be able to plan their ADR's and park days accordingly. Think of it as a challenge!

As far as the "class" issue with the propsed tier system of XPass....do the Deluxe resort guest deserve more for their money? Yes, they do. They are already getting more for their money....wifi, hot tubs, fridges in the room, better pools, slides even....no one seems to complain about all that. Also, the deluxe resorts have better bus stops at the parks.

When FP was rolled out in 99, people saw it as the end of the Disney experience....in fact, most changes at WDW are met with much disapproval on these boards. Change is hard....but, as someone else said in a previous post, this too shall pass.

I am going in December and I will enjoy my trip....now back to my lurkdom....

 

[WilsonFlyer]

As far as FP is concerned, we rarely use them so this will not directly affect us. I do feel bad for the folks who have gotten used to the system the way it is, but, change is hard. I surely hope ya'll don't let it ruin your vacations and your love of Disney. Seems silly over a little piece of paper. We have been going to WDW for decades and we did ok before FP on seeing everything we wanted to.

Most of the folks on these boards plan like heck for their vacations....and should be able to plan their ADR's and park days accordingly. Think of it as a challenge!

As far as the "class" issue with the propsed tier system of XPass....do the Deluxe resort guest deserve more for their money? Yes, they do. They are already getting more for their money....wifi, hot tubs, fridges in the room, better pools, slides even....no one seems to complain about all that. Also, the deluxe resorts have better bus stops at the parks.

When FP was rolled out in 99, people saw it as the end of the Disney experience....in fact, most changes at WDW are met with much disapproval on these boards. Change is hard....but, as someone else said in a previous post, this too shall pass.

I am going in December and I will enjoy my trip....now back to my lurkdom....

Yep. Remember all the hoopla and the 100 page thread about the monorails' time changes? I haven't seen a peep about them in weeks.

This too, shall pass. Life goes on. I'm actually looking forward to seeing where they go with all of this. A few more dollars to better my vacation experience is fine with me, within reason. It's not like they weren't going to get it somewhere anyway!

As for the person that said they stayed offsite because of money and couldn't or wouldn't pay more for a FP enhancement, and would vacation in Maui instead, I'll let that statement stand on its own.

 

[Alesia]

Looks like it's almost here!
http://jimhillmedia.com/editor_in_c...cting-to-have-a-very-merry-xpass-in-2012.aspx
Too true..Wallet Disney World

Oh, wait! Jim Hill said it? Then it must be true.

You'll have to forgive me - I have yet to have seen an answer. Perhaps there is a quote you could share or a post #?

Basically, the reason that there is an end time is so that they can enforce it if they need too. It used to happen with here and there with very popular rides like Soarin', but there haven't been any reliable reports of it happening at any ride in several years.

 

[Alby]

You'll have to forgive me - I have yet to have seen an answer. Perhaps there is a quote you could share or a post #?

I've been out for a while but with this new development I thought I should return to see what's up...
It is still amazing to me that people consider it "getting away with" something when they used FP's beyond the window. But now it appears that the policy is changing - most likely as a result of new technology that is in the works to make waiting in line an ancient concept. I assure you that this change (firm FP window) has NOTHING to do with line management or because the other system wasn't working. This is just the next step in what is an ongoing process of improving wait times.

I have posted this many times, but here it is again - perhaps for the final time...

As the self-proclaimed Late Fastpass Expert, I submit the following:

By using your FP beyond the window, you are not "getting away" with something, you are not "breaking rules", you are simply using the FP as allowed. When I use my FP does not affect crowd control at WDW or the attraction. My use of the FP does not have any impact on 1)the number of people in the park, or 2)the number of people who can ride an attraction in a day. FP's are not intended to move you to the front of the line, they are to allow you to spend your waiting time somewhere else (like buying food or merchandise). Disney is a business and they understand that the only time you cannot spend money is when you are riding and when you are in line. FP is a win-win idea that reduces your standing in line time. If I use my FP during the time window, someone waiting in the standby line will just have to wait a little longer. If I use it later that day, that same person (and many others) will simply get to ride a little sooner. Either way, the same number of people still ride. Complicated? NO - just simple logistics and ride management.

I have do have firsthand information concerning "late" FP use. My cousin, Scott Bowden, works in Anaheim as a Senior Vice President in the Department of Planning, Revenue Management and Strategic Pricing - he and I have had a few conversations about this issue. It has now become a joke because whenever I call him, the first thing he says is "Fastpasses do not expire, what's up?"
Additionally, a father in our first China adoption travel group (Mike Lewinski) works for the outside firm in Buffalo that actually helped Disney design and implement the FP (they make some of the components in the machines and in the software). He is very familiar with the logistics of the FP and how they work to provide better guest movement in the parks.

To answer the question about why they print an end time and not simply the earliest time you may enter the FP line:
Because someone realized that people need guidelines. Seriously, it is because having a start and finish gives an appearance of a "reservation" instead of just giving you a time to return (which just seems like you're still waiting, just not in the line). People like an appointment. I am not kidding – it is no more scientific than that.I do hear the argument that if everyone holds their FP until later it will clog the system. Consider the following extreme example:

5000 people collect FP's for Space Mtn in the morning and ALL of them choose to return after their window. The people in the standby line just have to wait. Still, the same number of people ride the ride and it never stops - it runs at capacity. BUT - for every one of those people who hold their FP until later, 1 person gets to ride earlier in the day.

Simplest example: you and I are the only people in the park. I use my FP at 10am(earliest return time printed on the FP), you (standby rider) have to wait. OR, I use my FP at 5pm(well after the end of the stated window) and you were able to ride anytime before that - with me not getting in your way.

If you don't believe you should use the FP's past the time, then don't. The fact is this: If I choose to not ride during the 2 hour window, it only means that someone else will fill my magical spot on the ride (someone from the standby line). If I did enter during the 2 hr time, that same person (theoretically) will ride AFTER me. None of this is intended as a rationalization, it is just basic theme park logistics. FP's do not expire (on that day, of course) and I know that for a fact.

Well, well. it looks like the self-proclaimed FP expert needs to make a few calls. Unfortunately, Scott has moved towards more of the accounting side of Operations, but hopefully he will have some insight into the new policy. If I can get any reliable information, I will post it.

Bold is mine.
This was only the first time this was mentioned

 

[eliza61]

Disney makes the rules. Consumers choose to go and follow those rules or they don't go. The consumer does influence the decisions Disney makes as it is a business and profit is the goal. However, consumers can become accustomed to and spoiled by deep discounts when the economy is down.Today, Disney reported earnings are up for it's parks and resorts. Reading the boards there are many consumers who are acting like spoiled children and threatening to stop going to WDW because they cannot get the 40% discount or free dining or use their mug from 2006 or collect fastpasses early in the day to use later in the day (past the return time printed) I don't live in a bubble and being a Disney stockholder, I am glad to see that Disney's profits are up. Sorry to those who have become spoiled(and I have been one of them), but there will be less discounts and other changes or rule enforcements. If the changes are not profitable for the company then Disney will revamp. So the statement that the consumer is the boss at WDW is incorrect. Disney is in control. They make the rules and enforce them as they may. They do want to keep the consumer happy, but within reason. Changes happen and our "me" society will just have to put on their big boy or big girl panties and deal with it. By the way, if Disney were a charity it would be bowing down to whatever someone wanted so that the consumer would donate money (which would not give you anything other than a good feeling about helping others) Disney is out to make money and they do that by providing a magical place and charging for that experience. I, for one, still find the magic and choose to go with the flow. For those who don't like the changes, don't go. Spend your money elsewhere. That could influence Disney to make different changes or it may have you determine that you miss the magic and want to return. To each their own.

I have to disagree and I am a stockholder.
Disney has a board and ceo, yep it's goal is to make profit but they introduce ideas based on a CONSUMER driven market. Do you honestly think any idea ever presented for disneyworld is not designed to bring in new CONSUMERS?

Sure there will be less discounts, because its based on another consumer driven process. supply and demand. When the economy is bad and the supply is great with no demand, you introduce incentives (discounts) to get people into your establishment. whether its disneyworld or starbucks or ed's bicycle shop. Now the economy is swinging up, demand is up, for whatever reason people feel more happy to give up the cash, so any smart operation whether it's 2 man or 200000 men will revamp to take advantage of a atmosphere where they can make more money.

Make no mistake about it, it is all consumer driven. Our entire economy is based on people spending money. now there are rumors and fears that this summer for whatever reason gas prices are going to skyrocketed. Do you think Disney does not have their eye on this? while it probably won't effect their summer crowd, believe me if they see a slow down those discounts will be flying fast and furious.

I've always been an advocate of vote with your dollars but please believe disney is paying a lot of attention on where those dollars are being spent and they are acting accordingly. Why do you think they are launching new cruise lines? You seriously don't think that is not consumer driven? someone in disney just said "hey let's build a bunch of ship"?

 

[d1gitman]

I have to disagree and I am a stockholder.
Disney has a board and ceo, yep it's goal is to make profit but they introduce ideas based on a CONSUMER driven market. Do you honestly think any idea ever presented for disneyworld is not designed to bring in new CONSUMERS?

Sure there will be less discounts, because its based on another consumer driven process. supply and demand. When the economy is bad and the supply is great with no demand, you introduce incentives (discounts) to get people into your establishment. whether its disneyworld or starbucks or ed's bicycle shop. Now the economy is swinging up, demand is up, for whatever reason people feel more happy to give up the cash, so any smart operation whether it's 2 man or 200000 men will revamp to take advantage of a atmosphere where they can make more money.

Make no mistake about it, it is all consumer driven. Our entire economy is based on people spending money. now there are rumors and fears that this summer for whatever reason gas prices are going to skyrocketed. Do you think Disney does not have their eye on this? while it probably won't effect their summer crowd, believe me if they see a slow down those discounts will be flying fast and furious.

I've always been an advocate of vote with your dollars but please believe disney is paying a lot of attention on where those dollars are being spent and they are acting accordingly. Why do you think they are launching new cruise lines? You seriously don't think that is not consumer driven? someone in disney just said "hey let's build a bunch of ship"?

 

[doconeill]

Now you are going to have to rush though a meal, show or some other scheduled event to try an make your fast pass time or miss the ride altogether. Stinks more if you ask me.

Wait, wait...now the whole thing makes sense!

This isn't about fixing the imaginary problem, OR about X-Pass at all!

It's about turning over tables.

By making people have to rush through their meals in order to make that strict Fastpass return time, they will be able to clear the tables sooner, especially at the buffets, and therefore seat more people during the course of the day, and therefore $$$!

So it REALLY IS about ADRs! After all, that's been one of the biggest complaints!