Fast Pass to become "Pay for Play"?

[micksterlee]

I would not have a problem with a fast pass package made available to purchase by all guest. Then if WDW wants to use them as add on perks for different resorts so what it will just make resort packages more appealing. I would definately consider buying a fast pass package if it was in my budget.It would be like concert tickets, if you want to sit in front of the stage you pay more than the people in the balcony. I don t get people saying they would feel like they were being treated like second class citizens if they couldn t afford the package. My neighbor drives a Cadilac I drive a Mazda but I don t think he is trying to make me feel like a second rate citizen.

 

[Luigi's Girl]

I must really be reading what you mean incorrectly. How can anyone think that someone who has purchased points through DVC isn't paying for a room? That's exactly what you are paying for. And the annual dues directly cover the expenses of your home resort, including the pools, transportation, etc. It is absurd to think that DVC'ers do not pay for a room.

ITA. After our initial investment, and for many of us, subsequent add ons, combined with our annual dues and the money we spend in WDW resorts and parks, I would say we're amongst those deserving paying hotel guests. Besides, perhaps many of those guests will never return to Disney again while DVC Members will continue to enjoy the magic and spend our dollars every year for many years to come! That's my LOGICAL explanation!

 

[BostonRob]

I must really be reading what you mean incorrectly. How can anyone think that someone who has purchased points through DVC isn't paying for a room? That's exactly what you are paying for. And the annual dues directly cover the expenses of your home resort, including the pools, transportation, etc. It is absurd to think that DVC'ers do not pay for a room.

I think his point was that DVC'ers aren't paying Disney anything NOW or REGULARLY as your typical vacationer does. If Disney does something I don't like, I'm free to go spend my vacation dollars elsewhere. Disney gets DVC'ers money up front. Since Disney already has their money there's no reason for Disney give consideration to DVCers in terms of new perks, except to foster sales of new DVC memberships.

 

[Mickmse2002]

I think his point was that DVC'ers aren't paying Disney anything NOW or REGULARLY as your typical vacationer does. If Disney does something I don't like, I'm free to go spend my vacation dollars elsewhere. Disney gets DVC'ers money up front. Since Disney already has their money there's no reason for Disney give consideration to DVCers in terms of new perks, except to foster sales of new DVC memberships.

This logic has serious flaws. I have yet to meet a DVC'er that ISN'T paying Disney NOW or REGULARLY as your typical vacationer does. In fact, I am willing to bet they spend more. What difference does it make if a DVC'er spend 40K up front (not counting the annual dues) as opposed to someone taking their chances over time with rack rates? And i very much think Disney, and WDW in specific has a lot at stake in keeping the 90,000 DVC families happy.

 

[Pedler]

I just read the link to the patent application. Disney is trying to patent every possible permutation of FP. Number of passes to be issued at once, bonus FP's, future return times and so on.

It may just be an attempt to do an end-run around other parks from using a FP type of system without having to either pay licensing fees to Disney or at least have to pay legal fees to fight Disney. It might be setting up the patent system so Disney can do what it wants at a later time without having to fight any other company.

It's certainly possible Disney is considering a VIP FP but I wouldn't put much credibility in Jim Hill's article.

Question, if everyone on site could get unlimited FP's could offsite guests ever get to ride Splash Mountain?

As always you make an excellent point. It would seem that Disney is taking a page out of the computer industries playbook. Patent every possible permutation of something even if you don't intend to use it. That way you can either charge a competitor a licensing fee if they use your intellectual property or you can stop them from using it at all. This is very common in other businesses.

Question, if everyone on site could get unlimited FP's could offsite guests ever get to ride Splash Mountain?

Another excellent point. I could see "moutain" fanatics staying on site taking up every fastpass for these rides during the busy seasons. Disney may then have to have more fastpasses and virtually shut down the standby lines. That wouldn't go over at all with marketing's warm and fuzzy approach.

Now before we get into class warfare here (Now doning flame proof suite!) in many vacation resorts there is preferential treatment given to select quests. I could see Disney providing a modified FP system to Concierge guests at the deluxe hotels as a way to upping the rates. The average guest would be none the wiser for it. (Heck some of them already think that FP is for on site people only or that there is a cost for it.) This would be a good way to start and measure the impact on the parks. Then you could slowly adjust it by adding the option to select packages and so on.

Given the shear volume of all hotels at WDW I think it would be impossible to implement for all of the levels of hotels. Just too many people and it would create a PR nightmare for off site guests.

 

[ep4244]

Six Flags Over Texas (and I believe other Six Flags Parks) already have a pay for service. QBot - you rent a QBot and can scan it at rides and then get a specifc window to return and ride. You have I believe a 10 minute time window - use it or lose it.

We love it. They also have a better system for integrating the Qbot line with the stanby line so it doesn't completely stop it. They reserve a specific loading station at each ride that does nothing but Qbot, any other loading stations are used for regular line; if no one is in line for Qbot that station is also used for standby loading. There is also a much shorter window for returning to the ride. I've never been in the Qbot line more 3-5 minutes.

 

[caitycaity]

Just disgusting. I love how everyone who can afford to go deluxe feels so entitled to bigger and better and more.

wow, that was nice. what a rude assumption to make.

 

[Lewisc]

I think his point was that DVC'ers aren't paying Disney anything NOW or REGULARLY as your typical vacationer does. If Disney does something I don't like, I'm free to go spend my vacation dollars elsewhere. Disney gets DVC'ers money up front. Since Disney already has their money there's no reason for Disney give consideration to DVCers in terms of new perks, except to foster sales of new DVC memberships.

Exactly what I meant. Payments made for financing, member dues or assessments are used for your capital investment. Your payments are the same if you use your unit or not. Further those payments are used for your DVC investment and maintenance. Other than some management fees that money doesn't go upstream but stays within DVC.

It's not a matter of who's deserving but rather which group will give Disney extra revenue with new FP perks. Disney might be able to increase rates, decrease discounts and sell ticket/ meal packages if they can offer bonus FPs.

Providing bonus FP won't allow Disney to charge DVC members more points for their stay and Disney would probably just as soon you don't use your points so they can rent the units through CRO.

Goodwill will require Disney do something for DVC members but logically there isn't any reason to. Does Disney care if you use your unit, rent your points to someone else, or trade for another property the unit to be rented by CRO.

One might argue that a new customer, someone you rent your points to, is more likely to spend money on souvenirs and park meals that a repeat guest.

 

[BostonRob]

What difference does it make if a DVC'er spend 40K up front (not counting the annual dues) as opposed to someone taking their chances over time with rack rates? And i very much think Disney, and WDW in specific has a lot at stake in keeping the 90,000 DVC families happy.

I already said, the difference is that Disney already has their money. Of course, there is some truth to your point. Disney certainly has a lot at stake in keeping DVC'ers happy and I'm sure they will continue marketing directly to them, accordingly. However, I expect that those 90,000 families you speak of are a very small percentage of Disney's entire customer base and I doubt they'd base their decision on whether or not to implent a new, tiered Fastpass system on how the DVC people will react.

 

[Minerva]

(putting on my flame suit....)There is no one that can say Disney is not an economic venture.

Doesn't it make sense that say...(lets throw some numbers out there....) you are spending 15k on a vacation compared to say $1500 shouldn't there be "perks"?

Disney just like any other business out there is out to "cultivate" more money from the bottom line. That means encouraging people to spend more and more. In order to do that, they have to offer more "perks" for more money. Disney is FAR from the first company to do something like this.

You do get perks already if you're paying that much for your vacation. You're staying at a fancier resort with a bigger room, bigger beds, better location, probably more transportation options, better restaurants that you don't have to leave your resort to eat in. Why penalize the families with young children who are scrimping just to be able to take little Johnny and Susie to see the Mouse? Or the family who comes from Europe once a year and is already paying more for airfare than you are for your room so they stay at PC to be able to come or the young couple just starting out that wants to go to WDW for their honeymoon but doesn't want to go into debt for the next 3 years for it? If they've saved enough to stay on property they should have equal access to the rides. IMO

Yes, Disney is in business to make money. Everyone understands that. I can see this costing them money though when a family who doesn't do a lot of research gets there the first day, checks into All Star Movies, spends some time letting their kids ooh and aah over the giant Dalmations then hops that bus to head off to MK for the first time and discovers that the only way they're going to be able to ride anything is to wait in lines 2 hours long. Next year they can either go back to Disney but they'd have to stay at a value again because they just can't afford anything else right now or they can spend less money and drive to the beach or the mountains near home instead of paying airfare and take their kids to a local amusement park for a day where the wait times are going to be much shorter. Disney counts on repeat business and that young family may have been so turned off that when they can afford to stay at a Deluxe in 10 years they continue to take that money to some place that didn't treat them like second class citizens when they were barely eeking out enough money for vacation.

Offer it only to the people only staying on site, fine. Don't tell the people staying at the Value resorts that they aren't worthy of short wait times.

 

[Terry S]

Lewisc.... one thing you have said more than once is that DVC would rather we don't stay at a Disney resort. I tend to not agree with that. They offer us a lot of perks such as $100 off of an annual pass. I beleive they do offer these perks so that we will stay there and visit the parks!

 

[lllovell]

If DVC is not making money for Disney, why do they keep adding resorts and are now seeming to be dipping their toes into a possible DL market as well (currently only selling WDW DVC memberships, but possibly trying to gauge interest)??? We are a captive audience to some degree, but we are also HUGE spenders. We weren't offered the dining plan because one of the big selling points to DVC is the home away from home floor plans that include kitchens and I think it was decided we wouldn't buy into the meal plans. However, we certainly bought into DDE. We also take 4-5 trips down a year. 2 on our DVC points and others in value or moderate resorts. We might have already "bought in" but DVCers are FAR from non-spenders at WDW and if they want to continue to sell memberships, DVC will be included in this (if it ever happens).

Also, what I read in the linked articles basically shows a system where you will have to sign up in advance of going to the parks, where you will have only as many fast passes as you have keys to the world and where there are differing numbers of slots offered to you per day based on what level hotel you are staying at. What I am seeing is as follows:

1. Disney will NEVER shortchange (on FPs) the Pop and All Stars to the point that no one wants to stay there - there are THOUSANDS of hotel rooms there that they want full just as much as the other hotels.

2. This is an on-site perk, much like ME, to attempt to get people to stay on-site and not leave until your vacation is over.

3. It is an incentive for people that might currently decide to stay at a vaue instead of a moderate to save money when they could easily move up. Its a perk, if you want MORE FPs, move up. No where in all this info has it said that you won't have plenty of FP times if you are staying at a value which is what most people here are assumming based on the "elitism" comments floating around. PEople at the "base" level will get "X" number and other people will get more (just like the services offered at hotels when you pay for a moderate or deluxe).

4. No one is saying this will ever happen.

5. Annual pass holders will have to be included on some level. That is a huge level of income for Disney and at a minimum the Florida resident passes will have to take part in this.

6. There are still going to be a limited number of FPs given out every day (just as there are now). You have to use equipment and plan your day and make FP ressies for each member in your party (all at once or only some if you want per ressie). You can plan some and go back and add more, etc. at least according to current ideas floating around. Either way, its a LOT of planning. Not everyone likes to be that structured, trying to make a day's worth of FP ressies at one time.

7. There are no fast passes given out during many value season days. So people traveling at off times probably wont feel the effects of this.

Disney is trying to make money. Between EMH and other programs, they are trying to encourage people to stay on property and to stay in the better hotels. I don't have a problem with that as long as there is a nice, healthy starting level for # of FP per day at the value level as well. Since THOUSANDS of families stay at the Pop/AllStar resorts each night, Disney wont toss out their bread and butter - they simply will do as they always seems to do and add to it.

Remember all the stink about MYW tickets? So far, seems to be floating along pretty well to me.

 

[Mister Disney]

Here are some sections from the patent application: march 2005

[0248] a. Spending per guest at hotels can determine different hierarchies of access to Fastpass. Thus, the more that is spent by a patron, the higher the priority can be for Fastpass.

[0249] b. Hotel accommodation in related resorts and environments associated with the entertainment center are allocated different priorities. Where a patron is in a related hotel, a higher priority can be given.


0250] c. Different levels and hierarchies can be applicable at different hotels. Thus, more luxurious hotels can have higher priorities.


0251] 2. Seasonal differences can be factored into the grant of different privileges. Accordingly, special promotions for Fastpass can be provided according to the season.

0253] Different hierarchical models can be established for the ability and right to obtain and use the Fastpass according to different priorities.

0255] a. Spending per guest at hotels can determine different hierarchies of access to Fastpass. Thus, the more that is spent by a patron, the higher the priority can be for Fastpass

This is SOOOOO like how the casinos in vegas and elsewhere deal with their guests and "perks". FP is nothing more than a PERK. Perks are delivered to increase SPENDING from the guests.

As I said earlier, Disney is a corporation, made up of shareholders who are interested in improved profitability. As a Disney shareholder, I think this is a good concept, because it is a move to increase average dollars spent per quest.

Guests can choose to increase their spending or not, that is their choice.

Over the course of time, I have increased my spending at Disney because I like the "perks" that come with it. I CHOOSE to go for limited amounts of time and less often so I can vacation how I like to, which includes a lot of luxury and perks. Others on the other hand would prefer to go the less expensive budget route, in order to increase the freaquency and amount of time at Disney. THAT is exactly why Disney offers so many choices, from Deluxe to Value and to DVC.

If FP are "tagged" to increased spending levels then that would encourage me to do it.

Remember folks, whether you like it or not...Disney's plan is to get you on their property, spending money.

Why do you think they offer all levels of accomadations? Why do you think they offer the various other perks that are out there for people that stay on property? Have people forgotten that EMH, Magical Express, etc etc are ALL perks to get you to stay on property. Magical Express is their LATEST attempt to get people to stay on property. Now, you don't even need a car...guess what that does? Keeps ALL your money on property. You aren't going to drive to an off site restaurant, you aren't going to spend your money going to Universal or the Outlets or I Drive.

Do I think there is something wrong with this idea? No....I think it is a good corporate move. The more perks the give, the more I will probably spend on their property.

Regarding the FP system making people feel like second class citizens....guess what.... it is anonymous, you won't KNOW what the person in front of you has for FP options.

 

[Minerva]

Just disgusting. I love how everyone who can afford to go deluxe feels so entitled to bigger and better and more. Perhaps if they downgraded and gave the money to a family who had never been to the parks becasue paying rent is pretty difficult they might find the kind of joy that their heart is really desiring.

Don't misunderstand. Most people work very hard for their money and deserve to spend it as they see fit. If it is on a deluxe vacation, good for them. But to automatically assume that you deserve better than the family that has been saving for the past eight years to get to WDW one time in a budget resort with their children is elitist and says alot about your character

Excuse me? I'm staying at a Deluxe both this trip and my next trip. I don't feel entitled to anything that isn't part of staying at that resort. That's why I'm paying for it. That's why I've *saved for it for 2 years already and I've got 6 months before we go to continue saving. I'm saving change just like some of the people who are staying at a Value, we're giving up certain extras at home to be able to stay where we want just like some people who are staying at a value. I do work hard for my money, no harder than anyone who is staying at a value though and I don't expect or assume that I will or should get anything extra outside of my resort and for that we put off the trip for a couple of years and won't go back for another couple of years to be able to afford the next trip at another Deluxe.

 

[lillygator]

There have always been lines at Disney....there are still lines with the FREE FP now....just a couple weeks ago we sailed through Buzz on a FP while a TON of people were waiting....was this penalizing Suzy, Johnny and their mom and dad?

 

[lillygator]

there are so many different ticket options that we are all not paying the same admission to the parks!!!!!!

 

[BostonRob]

Exactly. This is the bottom line.

Mark my words - If Disney goes through with this, there's gonna be trouble. This topic has been on here for about 3 hours, and look at the response it has already gotten.

No matter how you look at it, if Disney offers the same priced ticket to Joe Schmo staying at Pop Century, as they do to John Doe staying at the Grande Floridian, but allows John Doe to basically cut in front of Joe Schmo......Disney will not gain Deluxe visitors, but lose Value visitors.

Once again, what makes you think that Disney won't leave the Fastpass system as it is for guests in the Value resorts or offsite guests? As I read it, this would be an addition to the current system. So maybe somebody staying at the Comtemporary gets a few more fastpasses everyday than somebody staying at the Pop. So what? Everybody is still getting what they paid for. Some people would just be paying more and getting more.

 

[ophie]

There have always been lines at Disney....there are still lines with the FREE FP now....just a couple weeks ago we sailed through Buzz on a FP while a TON of people were waiting....was this penalizing Suzy, Johnny and their mom and dad?

No... b/c they could have used a FP if they so chose. Maybe they'll pass you w/ a FP while you're waiting standby for Space Mtn. The point about this is that right now, FP is equal for everyone. It seems classist to change the system and deny some visitors the same rights as other visitors... especially if the distinctions are based on money.

 

[Minerva]

There have always been lines at Disney....there are still lines with the FREE FP now....just a couple weeks ago we sailed through Buzz on a FP while a TON of people were waiting....was this penalizing Suzy, Johnny and their mom and dad?

No, that's people who don't do research. That's different than saying just because you stay at X resort you won't have a chance to get in those short lines like the people staying at Y resort do even though you've both chosen to stay on Disney property.

 

[Mickmse2002]

It's not a matter of who's deserving but rather which group will give Disney extra revenue with new FP perks. Disney might be able to increase rates, decrease discounts and sell ticket/ meal packages if they can offer bonus FPs.

Providing bonus FP won't allow Disney to charge DVC members more points for their stay and Disney would probably just as soon you don't use your points so they can rent the units through CRO.

Goodwill will require Disney do something for DVC members but logically there isn't any reason to. Does Disney care if you use your unit, rent your points to someone else, or trade for another property the unit to be rented by CRO.

One might argue that a new customer, someone you rent your points to, is more likely to spend money on souvenirs and park meals that a repeat guest.

I never suggested that DVC members were entitled to any FP perks. I was addressing the erroneous assumption/statements that a DVC investment doesn't translate into "renting a room". To think otherwise is absurd. I would also argue with your assumption that a "renter" will spend more on meals and junk than a regular DVC'er. Have you any statistics to support this assumption?