Fast food restaurant answer to union demand for $15.00 minimum wage?

[ponyboy]

The problem is that most of them are NOT doing "what they get paid to do". Many examples are out there of CEOs continuing to walk away with unheard of compensation packages and golden parachutes despite doing a terrible job.

There are a lot of people that are bad at the jobs they are hired for. How is that even relevant? I could use that same example for paying minimum wage workers even less since many of them are bad at the minimum wage tasks they're hired to do.

The very stockholders you mention have no voice in the boardrooms these days. Corporate boardrooms have become the new taxation without representation. That ostentatious CEO pay package is a tax paid by the real owners of the company, the stockholders, to compensate a "leader" based on a manufactured concept of market price. Guess who appoints the board members who vote on that executive pay package? The CEO. It is nearly impossible for stockholders to affect the choice of board members. The vast majority of stocks are managed by large, institutional investment firms. They have other interests (such as securing the company's 401K business) that preclude them from wanting to anger the CEO. That's why we have so many "rubber stamp" corporate boards these days.

We're setting our system up to fail because it currently doesn't reward good performance. Here's are a couple of really good articles I suggest you read: http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2006/07/10/8380799/
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/07...th-little-success/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

By cleverly turning the "income inequality" conversation into one about minimum wage instead of executive compensation the politicians have done exactly what they set out to do - distract people from asking why the bankers who tanked the economy are still not being prosecuted. It's all just bread and circuses.

In many cases common stock has no voting rights. When a person buys that type of stock then they know up front what they are getting before they buy it. If you're a shareholder and the company executives or board of directors are doing something that you don't agree with then you are free to sell your stock at any time. That is the resolution for that problem.

People buy stock in anticipation of making money, if they believe that due to the actions of the CEO or the board of directors that they will not make as much money as they hoped or that they will lose money then they should sell that stock. Buying stock is a simple business transaction with the rules for both sides plainly laid out. If you don't like the rules then don't play the game. What's great about America is that you can even start your own game if you want where you get to make the rules. You're absolutely free to start a corporation where executives get paid as little as possible. It might be hard to find people to hire (and if you thought the high paid ones do a bad job just wait till you see how bad the bottom of the barrel ones are) but you get to do it your own way.

The government has no business sticking it's nose in the matter of how much money a company wants to pay it's executives. As long as it's public knowledge and the stock buying public is made aware of these decisions then they know where the company money is going and they can make their own informed decision on what they want to do. We don't need big brother Uncle Sam deciding if someone is getting paid too much or not. Where in the Constitution is the federal government given the power to regulate executive salaries?

Why do people hate businesses so much? Why don't I ever hear people crying out to cut Miley Cyrus's pay or that we need a congressional investigation on why Justin Beiber makes so much money?

 

[ponyboy]

Source, please.

I do my own homework, you do yours.

And that is a major problem in our country. Not just on the issue of wages but across all sorts of quality of life measures. Companies are, at this point, essentially legally bound to externalize as many costs as possible... Let local governments deal with pollution and spills, health insurance companies bear the increased medical costs that come with such environmental conditions, taxpayers make up the difference between race-to-the-bottom wages and the actual cost of living, etc. It isn't a sustainable model.

That is not a major problem in this country, that is what this country was founded upon, capitalism. You're living in a fantasy land if you think businesses get to create messes and stick the local government with the bill. Do you have any idea on how much money the EPA takes in per year in fines and fees? That money they bring is was designed to help pay for spills, pollution, etc and most companies are financially responsible for any spills or hazardous conditions they create whether it's an accident or not.

BP paid over $4,000,000,000 (four billion dollars) in fines after their spill in the gulf and put aside another $40 or $50 BILLION to pay for other cleanup costs. So if something happens and there's a spill or a company pollutes something and can't pay the bill and the local government gets stuck with it, then blame your federal government. They've collected enough money to pay for it but most likely have already robbed from that cookie jar to pay for a study on how people use toilet seats or they've sent a few billion dollars of it as aid to a foreign country that wishes nothing else but for the USA to cease to exist.

However, I do agree with you that the state our country is currently in is a non-sustainable model but it isn't because of the minimum wage or current business practices, it's because of our giant, inefficient, bloated federal government.

 

[MillauFr]

They can't cut back the size of the government without some bad consequences. The entire economy of Northern Virginia would collapse if they cut the defense department's budget by 20%. Same thing with many other regions of the country.

 

[manning]

They can't cut back the size of the government without some bad consequences. The entire economy of Northern Virginia would collapse if they cut the defense department's budget by 20%. Same thing with many other regions of the country.

Does that mean we stay the course?

 

[HookdonWDW]

Does that mean we stay the course?

No. What it means is "Of course we need to cut the budget... just don't cut anything that effects me or someone I know." Basically, reduce the budget but make sure that no one gets paid less, loses a job, or loses a free social welfare program... and oh, make sure you don't raise the average person's taxes to do it. Just charge "big business" after all, they're taking all of our money anyway, and they don't deserve the money they make. And if we lose a few thousand businesses along the way... no big loss, because remember? You didn't really reduce the social welfare programs.

And we wonder why our country is in such bad shape. No one wants to make the hard decisions, and no one wants to see their pet programs reduced. Instead of hearing "Life is hard, deal with it" we are seeing a new reality where people spout, "Life is hard, you owe me".

 

[luvthemouse71]

I have to ask how many of these students have degrees that are in demand/useful?

I just recently graduated for a 2 year school and could not believe the amount of people getting degrees that were so narrow minded that they become "useless". I know we need teachers, social workers and artist but at some point the market is saturated or budget cuts keep it slim so there is 1 job and hundreds trying to get in.


What I am seeing that's even worse than kids coming out of college and being able to find work is schools dropping shop classes.

Yes folks you can make huge money with out a degree but with out shop classes kids don't see this or understand it. How many young adults do you know that make $30 an hour and have 0 college debt and no degree?

The trades are in desperate need for people but guess what folks don't know this as its not talked about as we are barbarians with out degrees

This is true. The trades are still a great option. Schools need to be telling kids this, not dropping trades.

You can still find good jobs and careers without a four year degree but sadly those are dwindling. I am an RN and have my Associate's degree in nursing. I make about $35 dollars an hour. I am in school for my BSN though, because I want to be able to move up or go to graduate school at some point. Many jobs are starting to advertise "BSN preferred" as well.

Even some of the new grad RNs are having trouble finding jobs in my state. The point is that the world changes and people have to be willing to change along with it. If this means getting more training, moving out of state, or taking something that isn't your first option, then that's what you do.

 

[ponyboy]

They can't cut back the size of the government without some bad consequences. The entire economy of Northern Virginia would collapse if they cut the defense department's budget by 20%. Same thing with many other regions of the country.

Defense is one of the few obligations that the federal government has to the states. It's one of the few things that it's SUPPOSED to be spending money on. There are about 43 million other things that need to have budget cuts before the DOD.

 

[luvthemouse71]

Not as many as used to be. Just listen to the stories.

Why do you think the Mexicans come here to work?

Because we think it is beneath us to work the jobs they are willing to do. Unlike us they go where the work is.

You think we would be better off with a socialist government? Ask any eastern European who came here. They don't. My wife had an uncle who came here from Poland for a visit. At Christmas we are in a store shopping. I caught him looking around in amazement. Asked why he said:

"Here you stand in line to pay for things, in Poland we stand in line waiting for things. The shelves are bare."

Asked why he said the government controls everything.

That was a number of years ago. It is getting better, however slowly.

In 2005 we had to hire a caregiver for her mother. She was from Poland. You will be surprised how many come from Poland to do this. And the Mexicans don't have a monopoly on coming here illegally. Many come and over stay their visa. They come here to work. And they get good pay. Back then we were paying her over $100 a day plus room and board.

Her parents went there for a visit and came back with pictures. we have beautiful lawns. They have vegetable gardens. There were pictures of horse drawn flat bed wagons.

Her cousin had to go back to take care of his elderly mother who will not move. She is on a joint bank account here. We asked him if he wanted the money sent to him. He said no because they don't know if banks will close and when. when they do they lose their money.

So you think it's tough here? Go over there and live under there system.

I'd rather stay here and WORK MY BUTT OFF. At least I would have, not guaranteed, a chance of a better life.


















p

We have relatives in Poland and the Ukraine. One came for a visit a few years back and actually cried when he walked into the supermarket with us. He said the same thing, that the shelves were bare and you stood in line for hours sometimes.

My grandparents and my mom came here back when you needed a sponsor and you were expected to work. My grandparents both worked. They both survived WW2 and the occupation of Poland by the Nazis. My dad worked two jobs the whole time I was growing up. So, there isn't/wasn't a lot of coddling as far as not being able to find work. You do what you have to do.

The world isn't a sympathetic place. No one cares about your feelings. I have a sneaking suspicion that many of the kids coming up now are in for a huge shock. Many aren't expected to work once they reach working age. When I turned 17, my parents told me that's it, time to find a job. My first job was at CVS for $4.25 an hour. I hated every minute of it,lol, but it taught me how to deal with rude coworkers, miserable bosses and the public.

 

[Dakota731]

So WHAT if I never upgrade my 1600 square foot house or give greedy selfish companies more needless money to buy shoes before I actually need them. If we can vastly improve the lives of millions I think I'm ok with that. We aren't talking about dropping the rest of us into poverty, we're talking about trying to save the millions who are.

Wow if you have a 1600 square foot house, you are better off than 90% of people in this world, so why not give your money and your possessions to those who live in an apartment and can't afford a house? It's not fair that you have more than someone else. There is always going to be someone who has more than you do and there will always be someone who has less.
I read a lot of biographies and you should learn how some of the richest CEO's in this country got their start- like Jeff Bezos of Amazon who was born to a teenaged mother and fathered by a poor Cuban immigrant stepfather. And I always come back to Oprah Winfrey and her rags to riches story. Most CEO's were not born with a silver spoon in their mouth but instead worked long and hard against great odds to get what they have.

 

[tvguy]

They can't cut back the size of the government without some bad consequences. The entire economy of Northern Virginia would collapse if they cut the defense department's budget by 20%. Same thing with many other regions of the country.

A struggle, yes, collapse, no. Here in Sacramento, we lost Mather Air Force Base, McClellan Air Force, and the Sacramento Army Depot. Yup, 3 major defense installations all within 20 miles of each other. All closed. We have survived. Now, don't ask me how in the world we got 3 military installations in one city, probably the same political corruption that got Northern Virginia all their military installations.

 

[manning]

Wow if you have a 1600 square foot house, you are better off than 90% of people in this world, so why not give your money and your possessions to those who live in an apartment and can't afford a house? It's not fair that you have more than someone else. There is always going to be someone who has more than you do and there will always be someone who has less.
I read a lot of biographies and you should learn how some of the richest CEO's in this country got their start- like Jeff Bezos of Amazon who was born to a teenaged mother and fathered by a poor Cuban immigrant stepfather. And I always come back to Oprah Winfrey and her rags to riches story. Most CEO's were not born with a silver spoon in their mouth but instead worked long and hard against great odds to get what they have.

And Dr. Ben Carson who grew up poor in Detroit to a single mom who couldn't read. One of the great neurosurgeons, now retired. His brother is successful too.

 

[Dakota731]

Back to original topic, my brother works at a factory where the union wouldn't concede salary demands so instead of hiring new human employees, his company started using robots. It was either that or take the factory overseas. It's working out well- they finally made a profit this year after losing money for several quarters and will be able to keep the plant in the US. They don't have to pay vacation and health benefits and the robots never call in sick. They still need to employ engineers, management and clerical staff but they no longer can afford to pay $20 an hour (plus $25 additional dollars per hour in benefits) for unskilled labor.

 

[writermommy6]

Back to original topic, my brother works at a factory where the union wouldn't concede salary demands so instead of hiring new human employees, his company started using robots. It was either that or take the factory overseas. It's working out well- they finally made a profit this year after losing money for several quarters and will be able to keep the plant in the US. They don't have to pay vacation and health benefits and the robots never call in sick. They still need to employ engineers, management and clerical staff but they no longer can afford to pay $20 an hour (plus $25 additional dollars per hour in benefits) for unskilled labor.

I'm sorry but anyone who expects to make $20 an hour without having the skills necessary for the job is insane. I have no other word for it. It took me years to learn the skills for me to acquire work that was $20 an hour.

 

[crisi]

Back to original topic, my brother works at a factory where the union wouldn't concede salary demands so instead of hiring new human employees, his company started using robots. It was either that or take the factory overseas. It's working out well- they finally made a profit this year after losing money for several quarters and will be able to keep the plant in the US. They don't have to pay vacation and health benefits and the robots never call in sick. They still need to employ engineers, management and clerical staff but they no longer can afford to pay $20 an hour (plus $25 additional dollars per hour in benefits) for unskilled labor.

The company I used to work for did the same. Jobs were either mechanized, or shipped over seas. Now what were decent paying unskilled jobs don't exist. And the jobs that were shipped overseas - that manufacturing is coming back - but the jobs aren't - they've just figured out how to build THOSE robots.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

They can't cut back the size of the government without some bad consequences. The entire economy of Northern Virginia would collapse if they cut the defense department's budget by 20%. Same thing with many other regions of the country.

Depends on HOW the budget is slashed. How much cheaper would it be to keep our foreign-based soldiers (and civilian support) on US soil and then just maintain the foreign bases with a skeleton crew rather than a full fighting force? How much economic impact would these people have on the US economy if they were living and spending money in the US instead of overseas?

 

[meliekanicole]

I got a BS and Ph.D. and my parents never paid one dime for my college education, nor did I ever live in their house or take any money from them during college. I got scholarships to cover most of my tuition and room/board and worked multiple jobs to pay what wasn't paid by scholarships. I banked every penny that wasn't needed to pay for my BS degree so I could afford to move from Va. to Pa. to start working on my Ph.D., and once I was there I competed for assistantships to cover the Ph.D. As a college professor, I see many students following the same path that I did - I have one student now who is working FOUR on-campus jobs to pay her way. So it can be done, it's just a LOT of hard work and dedication to do it.

As a person who has never had a lick of help from their parents, it can be done. Is it easy, HECK no, but it's very worth it to better yourself. Where there is a will there is a way!

 

[Dakota731]

I'm sorry but anyone who expects to make $20 an hour without having the skills necessary for the job is insane

I think more students should look at trade schools. My plumber said he wants to grow his business but can't find anyone to apprentice with him. He said kids all go to college now. I see many of my kids' friends graduating with degrees that get them nowhere in this economy and end up making minimum wage and having to pay back $80,000 or more in student loans. Sports management was a big major when my kids graduating and now these kids are working at sneaker stores! Realistically how many kids are getting jobs for the Yankees?? Marine biology and forensic science (after the CSI craze) were other big ones that often don't pan out in the real world. How many kids can world for Sea World and how many crime scene investigators do we need in our little suburban town? The only people making money in these instances are the universities.

 

[manning]

I think more students should look at trade schools. My plumber said he wants to grow his business but can't find anyone to apprentice with him. He said kids all go to college now. I see many of my kids' friends graduating with degrees that get them nowhere in this economy and end up making minimum wage and having to pay back $80,000 or more in student loans. Sports management was a big major when my kids graduating and now these kids are working at sneaker stores! Realistically how many kids are getting jobs for the Yankees?? Marine biology and forensic science (after the CSI craze) were other big ones that often don't pan out in the real world. How many kids can world for Sea World and how many crime scene investigators do we need in our little suburban town? The only people making money in these instances are the universities.

Kind of sound like the old rule of supply and demand has kicked in. More degrees than the market can handle thus low wage.

What's surprising is the educated (?) haven't realized the shortages of skilled workers has caused greater demand and higher wages.

My dad was a pipe fitter and proud of it. He enjoyed his work.

 

[Nettle]

I think more students should look at trade schools. My plumber said he wants to grow his business but can't find anyone to apprentice with him. He said kids all go to college now. I see many of my kids' friends graduating with degrees that get them nowhere in this economy and end up making minimum wage and having to pay back $80,000 or more in student loans. Sports management was a big major when my kids graduating and now these kids are working at sneaker stores! Realistically how many kids are getting jobs for the Yankees?? Marine biology and forensic science (after the CSI craze) were other big ones that often don't pan out in the real world. How many kids can world for Sea World and how many crime scene investigators do we need in our little suburban town? The only people making money in these instances are the universities.

Yes. This. So Much.
I am actually going to discourage my children from going to college, and keep an open mind to trades instead.
I have a friend that went and got a Masters in library science. She owes more on her college bill than she paid for her house. ($110k). She works at a sneaker store. It has trickled down to where they can't afford any vacations, or niceties because of it.
Mike Rowe has a great series of youtube videos on this whole matter.

 

[Dakota731]

And colleges are selling right into it. When we were visiting, they were pushing art and music majors - not many jobs in that (these are not teaching degrees). My nephew went for music and now works in retail (you don't need a degree for that).