Fast food restaurant answer to union demand for $15.00 minimum wage?

[crisi]

Which is exactly what I meant by "can't pay their rent". What if they don't have a car? What if they have 4 kids? I'd pick rent over college if it meant not living on the streets with my kids. Do people make crappy excuses sometimes? Yes. But that doesn't mean that everyone can do it with hard work. Plenty can, not everyone. For countless possible reasons.

She's got people who do it that way as well. At that point there tends to be aid available, SNAP, public housing, programs to get single mothers through school - though its slow going. No need to raise the minimum wage for everyone for the rare case of "four kids, the desire to go to college, and no college education" - for that case, give aid.

Do we need to pay everyone enough money that they can have say - seven, eight, nine children as a WalMart cashier? That seems a little over the top.

 

[davedmaine]

Many that are making minimum wage are on government assistance programs. Are these businesses that can't pay a living wage and force taxpayers to subsidise their workers really worthwhile?

As a business owner, do I really need to pay high school kids $15 an hour? I own a fast food franchise and the majority of my workers are either high school kids, just looking to pay for their cell phone bill or elderly people who just want to get out of the house. We tell people up front what they'll be making. They're free to work someplace else if they're not agreeable to the pay. I went to college, took out huge student loans, and took some crazy risks along the way that took about 20 years to pay off. This wealth distribution nonsense has to end.

If wages do go up, prices are going to go up. And guess who those high prices will affect the most; the minimum wage people who most frequent my type of restaurant.

 

[alicat8]

Walmart cashiers can't support themselves on what they make, which is why they're on government assistance. Doesn't matter if they have 9 kids or none.

 

[HookdonWDW]

Walmart cashiers can't support themselves on what they make, which is why they're on government assistance. Doesn't matter if they have 9 kids or none.

Then they need to do what a lot of us did/do: Get a second or third job. Work to better your circumstances. As someone else said, life isn't fair. Deal with it, and find a way to make things better. There's the old saying about giving people "a hand up, not a handout". Are people stuck in lousy circumstances? Definitely. But the fact of the matter is, that there are ways out. Someone mentioned the military as one alternative.

You state that Walmart cashiers can't support themselves so they are on government assistance. Raise the minimum wage to $12-$15, and you will see many more added to the welfare rolls as the "low-paying" jobs disappear. Then, instead of assisting people who are at least working and making something, tax payers will be footing the entire bill.

 

[Egdisney]

Which is exactly what I meant by "can't pay their rent". What if they don't have a car? What if they have 4 kids? I'd pick rent over college if it meant not living on the streets with my kids. Do people make crappy excuses sometimes? Yes. But that doesn't mean that everyone can do it with hard work. Plenty can, not everyone. For countless possible reasons.

I absolutely agree with you. I wanted you to know that someone does.

 

[alicat8]

OK, since it appears that I am the only one on the dis who thinks the way I do, I will concede. There is never any possible situation, nor was there ever in history a situation, where hard work did not result in success. Everyone who can't afford to buy food and pay for heat makes excuses. Not everyone who works a full time job deserves to be able to live in a building with walls and a roof.

Now I will crawl back to my blue state and do all that damn work I brought home from my totally awesome job.

 

[alicat8]

I absolutely agree with you. I wanted you to know that someone does.

Hahaha thanks

 

[Claire&TheBoys]

When I was in college 20 years ago, minimum wage was $4.25. One summer I worked mornings at the university doing tours, sending out info packets, etc. I worked 8:30-12:30 for minimum wage. After that, I had a half-hour to have some lunch (usually brought from home) and get to my second job at an engineering firm where I was the "girl Friday" - I ran errands, made blueprints, did some typing, etc. I made $5/hr there, working 1-5. Some nights and on the weekends, I worked at a card shop in the mall for about $5, as I recall. On my way, I could stop at McDonald's or Burger King and get a Big Mac meal or Whopper meal for $2.99 plus tax. So, that meal cost about one-hour's-wage for me.

Fast forward to today. Minimum wage is close to $8/hr in Florida. The same Big Mac meal, last time I checked, was over $7. Again, approximately one hour of minimum wage pay will buy it. If the minimum wage is $15, would you pay $13 for a fast-food meal? I know I wouldn't. My family eats fast-food meals a couple of times a month, and it costs us about $25. If that cost goes up to $35-40, we won't do it anymore. My husband makes considerably more than minimum wage but his salary wouldn't be almost doubling (as minimum wage would almost double from $8 to $15 per hour) or even going up $7/hr. Instead of eating out 6 times/month, we might eat out twice. If every family does that, people are going to lose jobs. Call me crazy, but $8/hr is better than $0/hr.

 

[AquaDame]

OK, since it appears that I am the only one on the dis who thinks the way I do, I will concede. There is never any possible situation, nor was there ever in history a situation, where hard work did not result in success. Everyone who can't afford to buy food and pay for heat makes excuses. Not everyone who works a full time job deserves to be able to live in a building with walls and a roof.

Now I will crawl back to my blue state and do all that damn work I brought home from my totally awesome job.

Keep in mind the DIS slants towards higher income (the ones who can afford Disney) and have more to lose if the minimum wage goes higher rather than gain from it. If you aren't a success story, you aren't going on expensive trips so its less likely you'll be on these boards.

Personally I know tons of people in my generation who worked hard and did everything right, but are still stuck in retail or worse even with two or more degrees. There simply aren't enough jobs for all the college educated out there. As I've said before my brother had to move out of the country to find employment and he is just as hard a worker as I am.

Some people see it as working hard and making it happen for themselves, others see it as luck of the draw to an extent. All I know is the current system is failing more and more good honest hardworking people than I can stomach. Times are changing, jobs are being lost every day through no fault of the workers - even if you are lucky enough to land a good income - because there is more profit to be made without us. I don't fool myself into thinking it will be solved in my lifetime, but hopefully eventually.

 

[AquaDame]

Fast forward to today. Minimum wage is close to $8/hr in Florida. The same Big Mac meal, last time I checked, was over $7. Again, approximately one hour of minimum wage pay will buy it. If the minimum wage is $15, would you pay $13 for a fast-food meal? I know I wouldn't. My family eats fast-food meals a couple of times a month, and it costs us about $25. If that cost goes up to $35-40, we won't do it anymore. My husband makes considerably more than minimum wage but his salary wouldn't be almost doubling (as minimum wage would almost double from $8 to $15 per hour) or even going up $7/hr. Instead of eating out 6 times/month, we might eat out twice. If every family does that, people are going to lose jobs. Call me crazy, but $8/hr is better than $0/hr.

Where is your math on this coming from? How do you know the $7ish meal is going to go up to $13? A lot of things contributed to the double price over the course of 20 years - its not just the labor that went up. How much were the buns? the rent? The equipment used? How much were tomatoes? How much have health and safety regulations changed? When you look at the profit of the company and see how much you need to add to each big mac meal to pay for the extra $7 an hour per active employee during that hour it really does not need to be much of an increase. And if it does go up to $13 and less people go get that meal GOOD because its just corporate greed - they're doing it because they think they can. Capitalism will charge what the market can bear - prices would reach a new equilibrium.

Also, completely off topic, to heck with fast food. You can make better and cheaper at home. No time? I can get an organic gourmet lunches with fresh seasonal local vegetables at half a dozen places within walking distance for $6.50. No reason to buy "kind of" food for that amount of cash.

 

[AquaDame]

If minimum wage is increased, it's not just the Walmarts that will have to increase the amount being paid. As I stated earlier in this thread, my employee's don't make minimum wage, but if minimum wage was raised to $12 - $15, they would suffer from wage compression, and find themselves as part of the new group of people working for minimum wage, as well as face the possibility of fewer hours/ reduction of one or more positions.

Small business owners don't always have the luxury of the same margins as Big Box stores. Currently, due to the fluctuations in the business market, my payroll costs are out of line (high) during the first quarter of the year. We continue to overstaff because we don't want our employees to suffer due to the vagrancies of our business. If minimum wage was increased by 25%, I couldn't justify continuing in this manner. It just wouldn't be feasible.

This is not a "the sky is falling" statement. It is the reality of my business. I don't know what the solution is to the loss of middle income jobs, but I do believe that increasing minimum wage will lead to wage compression and the further slowing down of job growth. Many employers will take another look at the books, and try to make due with fewer resources and employees.

My argument is that raising the minimum wage is not going to cause as much wage compression as you think, using walmart as an example. If the cost of goods and services only goes up a little bit how is the sky going to fall? I'm not suggesting there won't be job losses, but even if you did have to eliminate a job or shorten hours it will right itself in the end. This happens to small business all the time. Currently there is a lime shortage that is hitting the bars pretty hard - they're having to pay far more than they normally would which means something has to go. Some have laid off, some stopped using fresh lime and substituted processed juice or lemons, some eliminated their fresh lime drinks in favor of a different menu. Who can THEY blame? When my old company shuttered its doors in 2011 did we decry the wage levels? No.

Manufacturing jobs are gone. Call centers are offshore. Everyone is cutting back - how many forced furloughs have been righted since the recession started? How much has the price of gas and goods continued their march upward since so many of us have fallen down the ranks? Service jobs are the most sure fire way to have A job nowadays and they don't pay nearly enough for even the most basic of American dreams. Our middle class is dying, and not everyone is moving up I assure you. What do YOU suggest we do? I think losing a small percentage of the small percentage of companies that fall into the small businesses category to try and right a sinking ship is the right thing to do. I also stand firm in my conviction that the multibillion dollar companies that get huge tax breaks since they are "job creators" and don't pay even enough for their workers to be off the government teat CAN and WILL bear it.

 

[3goofyboys]

Not everyone can "choose" to go to college and make millions. If you can't afford your rent while you work in fast food, and your parents aren't paying your tuition, you're not going to college. Ever. No choice involved.

I went to college, my parents didn't pay for any of it. I lived in a house with 7 other people, waited tables full time, and went to school full time. I ate ramen and had dinner with my parents once a week. Several summers I would work until one in the morning and then get up at 6 to be ready for my 8 am class. I graduated in 3.5 years with degrees in Biology, Chemistry, and Anatomy and no student loans. Those years were HARD. There is no sugar coating it, I barely made it through. I'm not saying this to toot my own horn, but to say that if you want something and are willing to work for it, you can get it. The problem is it won't be easy and many aren't willing to put in the short term effort for the longer term gain.

 

[drinkme]

I went to college, my parents didn't pay for any of it. I lived in a house with 7 other people, waited tables full time, and went to school full time. I ate ramen and had dinner with my parents once a week. Several summers I would work until one in the morning and then get up at 6 to be ready for my 8 am class. I graduated in 3.5 years with degrees in Biology, Chemistry, and Anatomy and no student loans. Those years were HARD. There is no sugar coating it, I barely made it through. I'm not saying this to toot my own horn, but to say that if you want something and are willing to work for it, you can get it. The problem is it won't be easy and many aren't willing to put in the short term effort for the longer term gain.

This was me, too. My parents gave me no money for college. They didn't even give me room & board. I worked full-time for a couple of years and saved up. Rented myself a room (not even a full apartment) near campus and worked 3-4 jobs. I ate ramen noodle and earned myself a BA and a Master's. I came from parents who didn't have college degrees, and a grandparent with only a 4th grade education. Like the above poster, I also had a job that ended late at night & I was up by 6am the next day for an 8am class. I also got my master's degree in 12 months. I figured I could do anything for just 12 months...lol. It was hard but it was doable. I'm not anyone special, nor do I have a genius IQ. I just gave myself a long term goal and stuck with it.

Anyway, where I work some of the workers' pay really stinks. Some of the workers get paid only $13 and a BA is required for the job. What will their job be worth if the minimum wage gets raised? I don't think these workers will get a salary increase to $20. Why would anyone bother to work hard for a college degree when you can just get a crappy minimum wage ($15/hour) job?

 

[angwill]

That is a true statement.

its so much easier to whine and complain then make your own opportunities.

Join the Airforce, they give you room and board and up to 60k in GI bill for 4 years of your life.

you cant move closer to a cheap college?

Its always how you look at things and how willing you are to work at the problems in your life.

Not everyone can qualify for the service and not everyone is capable to make it in college or trade school no matter how hard they try.

The other fact is that lots of people have gone to college and can not get a job in what they have their degree in. Some have settled for minimum wage jobs because that is all there is. Not all are whiners and complainers either.

 

[manning]

Not everyone can qualify for the service and not everyone is capable to make it in college or trade school no matter how hard they try.

The other fact is that lots of people have gone to college and can not get a job in what they have their degree in. Some have settled for minimum wage jobs because that is all there is. Not all are whiners and complainers either.

If only the government could figure out how to prevent the California lobster surfer from cheating the system. Those are the ones who screw things up.

 

[angwill]

If only the government could figure out how to prevent the California lobster surfer from cheating the system. Those are the ones who screw things up.

Yeah right because that makes sense. lol

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

What about all the other companies that make profits? Should all companies have to open their books and then have employees report what assistance they get? What ratio of profit to assistance would be ok with you?

When a significant percentage of employees are receiving assistance such as food stamps while the company is raking in billions, than I think that is a problem.

 

[Dakota731]

I didn't say it's all about choices, because I don't believe it is. Not everyone can work 2 40 hour a week jobs. Some people have children to take care of.

But having children is a choice as well. It's better to wait until you are out of college and have a job before you decide to create a family. I know I'm so old fashioned!

 

[crisi]

When a significant percentage of employees are receiving assistance such as food stamps while the company is raking in billions, than I think that is a problem.

That has at least as much (and in my opinion more) to do with the hours than the wages.

If WalMart (or McDonalds, or anyone else) had $8 an hour employees, with health benefits (even not great ones), that were offered 40 hour weeks on set schedules, their employees who want that sort of scheduling might have a chance to get ahead. But WalMart is interested in hiring people part time AND low wage. With the scheduling in retail, its hard to work multiple jobs - you don't know if you have the 9-3 shift or the 12- 5 shift, making it pretty hard to schedule a 4-10 shift somewhere else.

Many of their employees don't want 40 hours work weeks - my mother works retail part time - she's 70 and gets a social security check - she doesn't want full time work - she wants 18 hours a week. People who work while their kids are in school and students also fit the category of people who don't want full time work. The issue really isn't that these jobs pay lousy - its that there aren't enough jobs full time available - especially low skill jobs - for adults that want to work full time. Raising the minimum wage won't solve that problem if people are still working a 20 hour week for $15 an hour.

 

[crisi]

But having children is a choice as well. It's better to wait until you are out of college and have a job before you decide to create a family. I know I'm so old fashioned!

Or tech school. Or trade school. Or get yourself established so that YOU are an independent adult capable of supporting kids - which might not involve college at all - but does involve some way of making enough money to afford to feed and shelter yourself - and your children.

Life does throw curve balls - and sometimes those curve balls aren't hittable - and you end up doing everything right - and still working at WalMart for $8 trying to raise kids. But a heck of a lot of people have their kids without ever thinking about curve balls - and before they can even hit a 40 mph slow pitch softball.