FAFSA changes coming...

[rockawaybeachgirl]

We knew we wouldn't qualify, but at least one school said "all paperwork, including FAFSA, must be turned in before we review applications." And in a need aware school, the two departments don't work independently, that's the definition of need aware.

On the need-aware schools my D applied to, the application had a box that said 'do you intend to apply for need-based financial aid?' She checked no and her applications were processed. I guess I can't speak to the policy at every single college in the US, but it would seem strange to require private financial information from someone who is not applying for need based aid. That would be a major turnoff for me.

 

[rockawaybeachgirl]

FAFSA is a mess. At one point, for two years we had two in college, one in state and one in private (one in private got a little money from the school, but not that much). I filled out FAFSA every year but all we were ever offered was small loans, which we could easily get loans on our own. FAFSA told us we could afford to pay some huge amount for our boys school. I guess if we didn't have a house payment we could have swung it, which makes no sense. Our boys have been out of college for more than 10 years now, but most people don't benefit much if at all from filling it out. And, 529's were introduced when our boys were in 8th and 10th grade. We could have paid in over 10K each to start one, but at that point, it made no sense and we didn't have that much cash just sitting around. Nowadays, I would have started a 529 at birth, but that wasn't an option.

The FAFSA EFC is a shock to many. To be clear, FAFSA is just a form that indicates if you are eligible for federal aid, which is very limited. Most times, the best aid comes from the schools themselves. Generally, though, the FAFSA EFC will look like a large (25-30%) of your AGI. This is bc the government expects that the parent will pay for college through a combination of past income (savings/Coverdell/529s), current income, and future income (loans). But the number comes as a nasty surprise when compared to current year income.

 

[OrangeBirdGirl]

I get that it's a personal preference to not want to share certain information about yourself. (People have that preference in many different areas-- personal life, family, background, etc) I certainly don't go around discussing with random people how much money we make.

I guess I just don't understand being so dead set on keeping it a secret that someone would be horrified by the idea of sharing financial information with their kids or would refuse to fill out FAFSA for college (even when they may qualify for financial aid).

That is so not the intention that a child doesn't get to apply for FAFSA. I'm so old, we didn't do the application online. I likely filled out some info then gave to my parents to complete their stuff. Maybe now it's all done at once and under the kids login so they see it. If that's the case then it is what it is.

 

[Darcy03231]

A colleague told me that they now consider a step-parent's income for the purposes of financial aid.

They've always considered the step-parent's income if the child lived with you. My ex and I had shared custody, 50/50. Because of that when my children went to college either he or I could fill out the FAFSA form. If I filled it out it would have to include all household income, which would have included DH's income, even though he had no financial responsibility for my children. My ex ended up filling it out.

 

[crisi]

The FAFSA EFC is a shock to many. To be clear, FAFSA is just a form that indicates if you are eligible for federal aid, which is very limited. Most times, the best aid comes from the schools themselves. Generally, though, the FAFSA EFC will look like a large (25-30%) of your AGI. This is bc the government expects that the parent will pay for college through a combination of past income (savings/Coverdell/529s), current income, and future income (loans). But the number comes as a nasty surprise when compared to current year income.

Yeah, the government figures you had eighteen or so years of knowing college was likely coming. But as humans we put off saving for it, tell ourselves our kids will get scholarships, or that they can somehow pay for it themselves, and frankly, try really really hard to ignore what is a constant barrage from the financial industry telling us to save for college. And federal aid is VERY limited. And its limited even for those who are really truly poor. College themselves have some funds for need based or merit scholarships, but they don't have limitless funds themselves - someone needs to pay to keep the place running.

The best advice I saw was when my kids were little - it was from a parent who was putting their kids through college without loans or scholarships - and was probably in a magazine like Kiplingers. She said "when they got out of daycare, I just moved that money into college savings accounts." I took that advice and when they were in middle school we had plenty to put them through a state school with room and board.

 

[mjkacmom]

Unfortunately room and

Yeah, the government figures you had eighteen or so years of knowing college was likely coming. But as humans we put off saving for it, tell ourselves our kids will get scholarships, or that they can somehow pay for it themselves, and frankly, try really really hard to ignore what is a constant barrage from the financial industry telling us to save for college. And federal aid is VERY limited. And its limited even for those who are really truly poor. College themselves have some funds for need based or merit scholarships, but they don't have limitless funds themselves - someone needs to pay to keep the place running.

The best advice I saw was when my kids were little - it was from a parent who was putting their kids through college without loans or scholarships - and was probably in a magazine like Kiplingers. She said "when they got out of daycare, I just moved that money into college savings accounts." I took that advice and when they were in middle school we had plenty to put them through a state school with room and board.

Unfortunately tuition, room and board at an in state school is now over $120,000 in my state.

 

[havaneselover]

Unfortunately room and

Unfortunately tuition, room and board at an in state school is now over $120,000 in my state.

We are close to $170,000 for Engineering at UVa (in state).

 

[MrsPete]

FAFSA is a bit of a sore spot with me for other reasons. I have a niece that has been completely cut off from financial support from both parents. (She has done nothing to deserve this--she just has crappy parents.)

I was in a similar situation. I don't really have crappy parents -- just parents who were never good with money, who had more children than they could afford, and who weren't willing to do simple things like fill out the FAFSA to help us with college.

"The criteria for independent student status will include situations in which the student is unable to contact their parents or where contact with the parents poses a risk to the student, such as human trafficking, refugee or asylum status, parental abandonment or estrangement and student or parent incarceration."

I don't see that as very helpful. Few people are in such genuinely difficult situations -- but a whole lot of students have parents who just can't /won't help. Thing is, if you say, "Just tell us if your parents won't help", suddenly a whole lot of middle class kids would be "estranged" from their families. Even having been in the situation, I don't see a good answer.

Does anyone know if there is a threshold of income beyond which you should not expect to get any aid based on the FAFSA? I just want to know if its even worth sending in what is pretty personal information if we won't get any aid anyway.

I tell my students that all prospective college freshmen should fill out the FAFSA form. After that, they'll know whether it's worthwhile or not. Seriously, it's not all that big a deal. Now that it's online it might take an hour or so.

I wondered the same thing. We have an annual family meeting where we discuss our years finances. How much we made, where we spent it, what we want to spend in future etc. How are kids supposed to learn about finances and budgeting if you don't discuss it.

THIS is how kids learn to understand finances! People say all the time, "Schools should be teaching finances." Yeah, well, schools ARE teaching finances, but it doesn't "seem real" to kids when they're looking at a worksheet and balancing a checkbook or seeing how much interest a loan costs. In contrast, looking at real family budgets and seeing how much your own mom pays for the family insurance and how much it costs to take a family trip to the mountains -- THOSE THINGS seem real, and they stick.

if loans are awarded they are not automatically applied-they have to be formaly accepted with the student (and depending on the type of loan-sometimes the parent(s)) signing a loan agreement just like any bank loan.

Likewise, if you don't want the loan, you have to formally refuse it.

which we could easily get loans on our own.

Sure, you and I -- and probably everyone else on this board -- could go to the bank this afternoon and get a loan, but -- in all fairness, not all families can "easily get loans on [their] own". Some don't know how, and others have crappy credit. But all college students are offered loans through FAFSA. No searching, no qualifying, just "here's your loan".

In fact, FAFSA pushes the loans on kids. Encourages them to take the loans. I get why so many people borrow: when they offer and offer and offer, at some point you're going to say, "I could use this money".

Yeah, the government figures you had eighteen or so years of knowing college was likely coming. But as humans we put off saving for it, tell ourselves our kids will get scholarships, or that they can somehow pay for it themselves, and frankly, try really really hard to ignore what is a constant barrage from the financial industry telling us to save for college.

Yes, it's hard to hear this if you're facing big college bills, and you haven't yet saved, but this is true: They assume that you've put aside SOMETHING every year of your child's life.

I took that advice and when they were in middle school we had plenty to put them through a state school with room and board.

I didn't do that exactly, but we started saving before our children were conceived, and by the time they were -- I don't know how old, but certainly by high school -- we had their college money saved. In the end, they both earned some scholarship money, one chose to start at community college, and it was easier to pay than we'd expected.

Unfortunately tuition, room and board at an in state school is now over $120,000 in my state.

That's insane. You can pay full price at my daughters' university and get room, board, and tuition for four years for less than half that. Today! My youngest hasn't been out of college a full year yet, so I'm current on my costs.

 

[rockawaybeachgirl]

Yeah, the government figures you had eighteen or so years of knowing college was likely coming. But as humans we put off saving for it, tell ourselves our kids will get scholarships, or that they can somehow pay for it themselves, and frankly, try really really hard to ignore what is a constant barrage from the financial industry telling us to save for college. And federal aid is VERY limited. And its limited even for those who are really truly poor. College themselves have some funds for need based or merit scholarships, but they don't have limitless funds themselves - someone needs to pay to keep the place running.

The best advice I saw was when my kids were little - it was from a parent who was putting their kids through college without loans or scholarships - and was probably in a magazine like Kiplingers. She said "when they got out of daycare, I just moved that money into college savings accounts." I took that advice and when they were in middle school we had plenty to put them through a state school with room and board.

I agree with all this, and I also think its a lack of understanding just how much more college costs these days, even for those of us who went to college. If you haven't been in the game lately (i.e. first kid), it can be mind boggling. When I graduated from UVA in 1996, out of state, all in, was like $16k a year. Now it's like $65k. We didn't even bother having my daughter apply since we weren't willing to pay that and knew we wouldn't get need-based aid. Thankfully she is a city girl and had zero interest in living in Charlottesville LOL. Thankfully, I had a 5 year acclimation period as I lived through my stepdaughter applying for colleges (which we were not on the hook for paying) and that's when I started to get interested in college costs and financing. So I knew what I was walking into with D21. But if you're not prepared, whoa Nelly! Those are some ginormous numbers....

 

[havaneselover]

I agree with all this, and I also think its a lack of understanding just how much more college costs these days, even for those of us who went to college. If you haven't been in the game lately (i.e. first kid), it can be mind boggling. When I graduated from UVA in 1996, out of state, all in, was like $16k a year. Now it's like $65k. We didn't even bother having my daughter apply since we weren't willing to pay that and knew we wouldn't get need-based aid. Thankfully she is a city girl and had zero interest in living in Charlottesville LOL. Thankfully, I had a 5 year acclimation period as I lived through my stepdaughter applying for colleges (which we were not on the hook for paying) and that's when I started to get interested in college costs and financing. So I knew what I was walking into with D21. But if you're not prepared, whoa Nelly! Those are some ginormous numbers....

I graduated from UVa in 1997 from out-of-state but am now in state. And both UVa and University of Richmond were well under $20k with room and board back in those days. But UVa is still expensive in state these days because after the Great Recession higher ed funding was cut by the state and never restored. DD can go to UVa (still waiting to hear on EA) for $170k or out-of-state Georgia Tech for $200k. Splitting the $30k difference over four years between her dad and me makes it a no brainer for us.

 

[TwoMisfits]

So, we applied to colleges this fall, and my spouse is convinced they all either collude or know exactly how much money they can extract. We applied for no need based aid, but applied for merit aid at her 3 early action schools. Both the private school and the out of state school ponied up funds to within $2K of the local public school's normal full price tuition (aka - the out of state offered a ton, but then you add room and board and you're $2K more, and the local private flat matched the local public's full tuition cost). And the local public school offered nothing. B/c they all believe we can pay $13.5K-$16K/year for our 1st. It ultimately didn't matter worth a damn how well she did, b/c they all cost almost the same, and she always put the local school 1st. But, she can't believe she was accepted to that schools Honors Program (like she was at the other 2 schools) and still was offered $0. None of these schools are Ivy or Ivy-lite...just regular state schools...sigh...

Although I can't complain that my kid picked a school that will set me back about $15-$16K/year (once I get the limited meal plan, and the extra fees for lab classes)...she could have looked at the $70K schools in the state next door...still gonna hurt a lot though, b/c I'll be paying this for the next 13 years, as I graduate a kid and put in another one...and we're a 1 income public employed family...aka, we ain't rich...

PS - It is changing our plan for the next 3 kids - we're gonna load up on Dual Enrollment CC classes (even though I pay full price for these) b/c they cost 40% less and all transfer, so this way, I'll avoid the "more credits" fees and some of the core science lab fees....

 

[crisi]

Unfortunately room and

Unfortunately tuition, room and board at an in state school is now over $120,000 in my state.

Daycare was $1200 a month - 20 years ago. So I was saving $14400 a year minimum - $7200 per kid. After ten years that was $144k - or $72k per kid - without any growth. But the investments did grow - and there was the extra money - get a bonus, throw some of it at college funds. Grandparents gave the kids a few hundred toward college every year, the kids had jobs which they use to pay for incidentals. Our initial goal was "4 years, state school, live at home" That was met by middle school. Then it was "four years, including room and board" Then "four years, state flagship" Then it was "private school or out of state if they want." Each goal was hit. But, my husband is an alum of one of the most expensive private colleges in the U.S., and he said when they were born that he wanted them to be able to go there if they wanted (and could get it, its a highly selective school), so our priority was set early.

And one of mine decided to go to trade school - so like Mrs. Pete, it turned out to be far easier to afford than we had planned.

 

[rockawaybeachgirl]

I graduated from UVa in 1997 from out-of-state but am now in state. And both UVa and University of Richmond were well under $20k with room and board back in those days. But UVa is still expensive in state these days because after the Great Recession higher ed funding was cut by the state and never restored. DD can go to UVa (still waiting to hear on EA) for $170k or out-of-state Georgia Tech for $200k. Splitting the $30k difference over four years between her dad and me makes it a no brainer for us.

Nice! Our cheapest option by far is a SUNY at around $20-25k/year - NY has done a good job at controlling those costs. However, her dad and I also agreed to split it and her budget was the cost of a SUNY for each of us, so she was able to do that on merit at a few private colleges. I can't believe UVA is that much in state - I think back in the 90s my in state roommates were paying like $6k lol.

Oh, and Wahoowa!

 

[crisi]

So, we applied to colleges this fall, and my spouse is convinced they all either collude or know exactly how much money they can extract. We applied for no need based aid, but applied for merit aid at her 3 early action schools. Both the private school and the out of state school ponied up funds to within $2K of the local school's normal full price tuition (aka - the out of state offered a ton, but then you add room and board and you're $2K more, and the local private flat matched the local public's full tuition cost). And the local public school offered nothing. B/c they all believe we can pay $13.5K-$16K/year for our 1st. It ultimately didn't matter worth a damn how well she did, b/c they all cost almost the same, and she always put the local school 1st. But, she can't believe she was accepted to that schools Honors Program (like we was at the other 2 schools) and still was offered $0. None of these schools are Ivy or Ivy-lite...just regular state schools...sigh...

Although I can't complain that my kid picked a school that will set me back about $15-$16K/year (once I get the limited meal plan, and the extra fees for lab classes)...she could have looked at the $70K schools in the state next door...still gonna hurt a lot thought, b/c I'll be paying this for the next 13 years, as I graduate a kid and put in another one...and we're a 1 income public employed family...aka, we ain't rich...

PS - It is changing our plan for the next 3 kids - we're gonna load up on Dual Enrollment CC classes (even though I pay full price for these) b/c they cost 40% less and all transfer, so this way, I'll avoid the "more credits" fees and some of the core science lab fees....

We discovered the same - when all the offers were laid out, there wasn't much of a difference between the really expensive school and the lesser expensive school after the merit aid was handed out.

And our college kid did dual enrollment - a lot of their classmates went into college as Juniors. The college she went to would only transfer in a semester of classes if she wanted to get the Freshman experience, and since we had the resources, we said "stay four years."

Most State schools lack the endowments for the merit aid that private schools give out. They operate off what your state's legislature gives them - if they have too much money, then they don't need more.

 

[havaneselover]

Nice! Our cheapest option by far is a SUNY at around $20-25k/year - NY has done a good job at controlling those costs. However, her dad and I also agreed to split it and her budget was the cost of a SUNY for each of us, so she was able to do that on merit at a few private colleges. I can't believe UVA is that much in state - I think back in the 90s my in state roommates were paying like $6k lol.

Oh, and Wahoowa!

I chose UVa over UPenn because it was about half the cost (my parents really didn't care but I'm frugal--especially with other people's money). Now they are almost the same. It's crazy.

 

[TwoMisfits]

We discovered the same - when all the offers were laid out, there wasn't much of a difference between the really expensive school and the lesser expensive school after the merit aid was handed out.

And our college kid did dual enrollment - a lot of their classmates went into college as Juniors. The college she went to would only transfer in a semester of classes if she wanted to get the Freshman experience, and since we had the resources, we said "stay four years."

Most State schools lack the endowments for the merit aid that private schools give out. They operate off what your state's legislature gives them - if they have too much money, then they don't need more.

It was more my daughter was insulted by the $0 - she said why accept her EA and to the Honors College and shower her with love if she didn't even warrant $500.

It has made her certain she'll give no money to college after she graduates. She sees it as a transactional experience now - she'll get out what she needs for herself, since her #1 school has decided she isn't worth a $1...it's probably healthier to see yourself as a total customer vs someone needing to live up to something...and no worries about GPA or "requirements" - she wants to drop Honors, well, go for it, kid...

 

[mjkacmom]

I was in a similar situation. I don't really have crappy parents -- just parents who were never good with money, who had more children than they could afford, and who weren't willing to do simple things like fill out the FAFSA to help us with college.
I don't see that as very helpful. Few people are in such genuinely difficult situations -- but a whole lot of students have parents who just can't /won't help. Thing is, if you say, "Just tell us if your parents won't help", suddenly a whole lot of middle class kids would be "estranged" from their families. Even having been in the situation, I don't see a good answer.
I tell my students that all prospective college freshmen should fill out the FAFSA form. After that, they'll know whether it's worthwhile or not. Seriously, it's not all that big a deal. Now that it's online it might take an hour or so.
THIS is how kids learn to understand finances! People say all the time, "Schools should be teaching finances." Yeah, well, schools ARE teaching finances, but it doesn't "seem real" to kids when they're looking at a worksheet and balancing a checkbook or seeing how much interest a loan costs. In contrast, looking at real family budgets and seeing how much your own mom pays for the family insurance and how much it costs to take a family trip to the mountains -- THOSE THINGS seem real, and they stick.
Likewise, if you don't want the loan, you have to formally refuse it.
Sure, you and I -- and probably everyone else on this board -- could go to the bank this afternoon and get a loan, but -- in all fairness, not all families can "easily get loans on [their] own". Some don't know how, and others have crappy credit. But all college students are offered loans through FAFSA. No searching, no qualifying, just "here's your loan".

In fact, FAFSA pushes the loans on kids. Encourages them to take the loans. I get why so many people borrow: when they offer and offer and offer, at some point you're going to say, "I could use this money".
Yes, it's hard to hear this if you're facing big college bills, and you haven't yet saved, but this is true: They assume that you've put aside SOMETHING every year of your child's life.
I didn't do that exactly, but we started saving before our children were conceived, and by the time they were -- I don't know how old, but certainly by high school -- we had their college money saved. In the end, they both earned some scholarship money, one chose to start at community college, and it was easier to pay than we'd expected.
That's insane. You can pay full price at my daughters' university and get room, board, and tuition for four years for less than half that. Today! My youngest hasn't been out of college a full year yet, so I'm current on my costs.

Well you can’t do that in New Jersey, unfortunately.

 

[mjkacmom]

So, we applied to colleges this fall, and my spouse is convinced they all either collude or know exactly how much money they can extract. We applied for no need based aid, but applied for merit aid at her 3 early action schools. Both the private school and the out of state school ponied up funds to within $2K of the local public school's normal full price tuition (aka - the out of state offered a ton, but then you add room and board and you're $2K more, and the local private flat matched the local public's full tuition cost). And the local public school offered nothing. B/c they all believe we can pay $13.5K-$16K/year for our 1st. It ultimately didn't matter worth a damn how well she did, b/c they all cost almost the same, and she always put the local school 1st. But, she can't believe she was accepted to that schools Honors Program (like she was at the other 2 schools) and still was offered $0. None of these schools are Ivy or Ivy-lite...just regular state schools...sigh...

Although I can't complain that my kid picked a school that will set me back about $15-$16K/year (once I get the limited meal plan, and the extra fees for lab classes)...she could have looked at the $70K schools in the state next door...still gonna hurt a lot though, b/c I'll be paying this for the next 13 years, as I graduate a kid and put in another one...and we're a 1 income public employed family...aka, we ain't rich...

PS - It is changing our plan for the next 3 kids - we're gonna load up on Dual Enrollment CC classes (even though I pay full price for these) b/c they cost 40% less and all transfer, so this way, I'll avoid the "more credits" fees and some of the core science lab fees....

My seniors are #4 and #5, so yes, this is exactly how it plays out, in state, OOS, private, all within a couple thousand of each other if you have the stats.

 

[crisi]

It was more my daughter was insulted by the $0 - she said why accept her EA and to the Honors College and shower her with love if she didn't even warrant $500.

It has made her certain she'll give no money to college after she graduates. She sees it as a transactional experience now - she'll get out what she needs for herself, since her #1 school has decided she isn't worth a $1...it's probably healthier to see yourself as a total customer vs someone needing to live up to something...and no worries about GPA or "requirements" - she wants to drop Honors, well, go for it, kid...

As someone who got into the honors program at a State school and got nothing for it, I understand. I think it emphasizes how little aid to expect when you are looking at state schools. And we don't give money to our state schools - that's what taxes are for. But we do give money to my husband's alma mater - because they did provide aid and we pay it forward.

 

[crisi]

Oh, one more advantage to saving like crazy - last year the gains from the 529s were enough to pay for a semester's tuition for my private school Junior.