External flashes

[WDWFigment]

Great, great tutorial, Mark . I can't wait to go back in September and utilize some of your pointers.

You know if you're going to utilize the pointers, it's a well written written tutorial on dark rides. I would say you’re one of the top 3 dark ride shooters (along with Gdad and Joe Penniston) out there right now.

A few more suggestions that I would offer…

Dark rides can be technologically-prohibitive. They are one of the few things (SpectroMagic is the other that quickly comes to mind), that are less dependent on the “12 inches behind the camera” than they are on the camera and lens you are using. A DSLR is almost a bare minimum for most dark rides. I had trouble with an entry level D40, although the newer entry levels have better high-ISO capabilities. A intermediate level DSLR works well, and an FX camera is the ultimate tool. Of course, you will also need a f/1.8 or f/1.4 lens (or f/1.2!) for the best results. Compositionally, I think a 50mm on a DX camera is about as far as long as I would want to go. The wider, the better.

I think aperture priority with intelligent auto-ISO is the best way to go. This way, I set the aperture (for the darkest rides—Haunted Mansion, PotC, and Peter Pan’s Flight this is f/1.4) as well as a minimum shutter speed, and ISO ceiling, and let the camera take it from there. It will then raise the ISO before lowering the shutter speed, and will only lower it to the minimum shutter speed (usually 1/40 for me). If the ride stops, I switch it to manual mode and usually go with 1/20 shutter. I use aperture priority because I think increasing the shutter speed, if possible, is more important to success on a dark ride than increasing the aperture if possible. A matter of preference, I suppose.

I also use -1-2 EV, but for a different reason. I use it because I know I can recover a good deal of light in RAW post processing. I believe Bryan Peterson coined the term “the Anti-ND filter” for doing this (although I don’t think he was referring to Disney Dark Rides, in particular). Another important post processing technique is going to be adjusting your highlights. You might have a lot of blown highlights depending on how you metered, so the “Recovery” slider will be important. For both of these reasons, shooting RAW on dark rides is essential.

Another important thing is to use manual focus or auto-focus “continuous”. I use AF-C because I am lazy, but I think I might give manual focusing a try for the HM caretaker scene (excellent work, Mark!). AF-C (and its Canon equivalent) keeps the lens continuously focusing as you move throughout the attraction. Since you aren’t photographing static scenes, this can be helpful so that you don’t get something in focus, only to find that you or the scene moved, and your image is blurred.

I think Mark and Todd have covered everything else I would say. I know a lot of this is written for DSLR users, but besides ISAW and a few others, that’s really the target user audience, anyway.

Here are some shots I’ve taken on dark rides. All were taken with a Nikon D40, and most were using a Sigma 30mm f/1.4 lens. The firste from Haunted Mansion is actually with the 18-200 VR lens (before I got the 30…). You can get EXIF data by clicking on the images, which will take you to their respective Flickr pages.

 

[annnewjerz]

Okay so here's my question and this may be unanswerable since it depends on technique, skill, etc.

As someone who has never been to WDW with their dSLR and will be for the first time this year, I'm interested in trying to figure out how many rides through a given dark attraction I should expect taking in order to get any usable images (I'd be happy with a handful or so per attraction).

I will be going for a short trip in October, where I will be able to get some "practice" on things like HM, POTC, Splash and Small World so I would think that if I can only make it through these rides one or two times during our December trip, I should be fine.

But for darker rides in DHS, Epcot and AK where it will be my first attempt in December---please tell me that getting the ghost people on ToT, getting a shot or two on Spaceship Earth, etc. isn't going to take 5 rides through each. I know my traveling party won't be thrilled with that since we only have 5-6 park days planned.

I think my expectations are reasonable. I don't expect to come back with shots anywhere near the quality of the dark ride "masters" but I think I'm just nervous it'll be way harder than I'm anticipating and will come home without a single shot that's even "worth" sharing.

 

[WDWFigment]

Okay so here's my question and this may be unanswerable since it depends on technique, skill, etc.

As someone who has never been to WDW with their dSLR and will be for the first time this year, I'm interested in trying to figure out how many rides through a given dark attraction I should expect taking in order to get any usable images (I'd be happy with a handful or so per attraction).

I will be going for a short trip in October, where I will be able to get some "practice" on things like HM, POTC, Splash and Small World so I would think that if I can only make it through these rides one or two times during our December trip, I should be fine.

But for darker rides in DHS, Epcot and AK where it will be my first attempt in December---please tell me that getting the ghost people on ToT, getting a shot or two on Spaceship Earth, etc. isn't going to take 5 rides through each. I know my traveling party won't be thrilled with that since we only have 5-6 park days planned.

I think my expectations are reasonable. I don't expect to come back with shots anywhere near the quality of the dark ride "masters" but I think I'm just nervous it'll be way harder than I'm anticipating and will come home without a single shot that's even "worth" sharing.

Given the correct equipment and a lens that focuses quickly, I would say it's safe to expect 5-10 decent-great quality images per ride through of any omnimover/boat dark ride attraction (I don't consider Space, Dinosaur, or RnRC to be "dark rides"...they are rides that are dark, but to me, "dark ride" is a term of art that refers to omnimover/boat based attractions). The only attractions that are the exception are Haunted Mansion and Peter Pan's Flight (at least, the only that come to mind).

On our last trip, the only dark rides we hit more than once were Haunted Mansion, Buzz, and Pirates. So, all of the above were taken on my only ride through ever having used a DSLR and fast lens (I got my first DSLR for our summer trip last year, but I only had the 18-200 for that trip).

 

[annnewjerz]

Given the correct equipment and a lens that focuses quickly, I would say it's safe to expect 5-10 decent-great quality images per ride through of any omnimover/boat dark ride attraction (I don't consider Space, Dinosaur, or RnRC to be "dark rides"...they are rides that are dark, but to me, "dark ride" is a term of art that refers to omnimover/boat based attractions). The only attractions that are the exception are Haunted Mansion and Peter Pan's Flight (at least, the only that come to mind).

On our last trip, the only dark rides we hit more than once were Haunted Mansion, Buzz, and Pirates. So, all of the above were taken on my only ride through ever having used a DSLR and fast lens (I got my first DSLR for our summer trip last year, but I only had the 18-200 for that trip).

Thanks! It's good to hear it from someone who has pretty much the same set-up that I do. Since your shots above were taken with the D40, my guess is that with the combination of D90 with better quality at higher ISOs combined with the Sigma 30 f/1.4 I should be okay.

I'm much less worried about rides like Splash, Small World and GMR. But for HM, while I don't expect to get any shots of hitchhiking ghosts or the caretaker---I'd like to at least get a shot of something on the ride!!

 

[Todd_H]

You know if you're going to utilize the pointers, it's a well written written tutorial on dark rides. I would say you’re one of the top 3 dark ride shooters (along with Gdad and Joe Penniston) out there right now.

Wow, thanks Tom. I appreciate that compliment, but I think Mark belongs in that group more than me, especially after than holy grail caretaker shot.

A few more suggestions that I would offer…

I think aperture priority with intelligent auto-ISO is the best way to go. This way, I set the aperture (for the darkest rides—Haunted Mansion, PotC, and Peter Pan’s Flight this is f/1.4) as well as a minimum shutter speed, and ISO ceiling, and let the camera take it from there. It will then raise the ISO before lowering the shutter speed, and will only lower it to the minimum shutter speed (usually 1/40 for me). If the ride stops, I switch it to manual mode and usually go with 1/20 shutter. I use aperture priority because I think increasing the shutter speed, if possible, is more important to success on a dark ride than increasing the aperture if possible. A matter of preference, I suppose.

This is really interesting. I never thought to shoot in aperture priority and limit the shutter speed. I think that is a custom function available in the Canon cameras. I'll have to look it up and keep that in mind.

Another important thing is to use manual focus or auto-focus “continuous”. I use AF-C because I am lazy, but I think I might give manual focusing a try for the HM caretaker scene (excellent work, Mark!). AF-C (and its Canon equivalent) keeps the lens continuously focusing as you move throughout the attraction. Since you aren’t photographing static scenes, this can be helpful so that you don’t get something in focus, only to find that you or the scene moved, and your image is blurred.

Man, I really wish this worked for me because it's a great tip. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to get my cameras (the XTi, the 40D, and the 5DM2) to AF on any of the darker rides (HM, PPF, SSE) with either my 50mm or my 24-70 f/2.8.

You have some excellent dark ride shots, but this one still amazes me. Did you have to really play with this one in CS3?

 

[Gdad]

This is a fun discussion and some great points have been made.

One point I think you make Mark without pointing it out directly is here...

I had my camera in manual exposure mode with the ISO set to 6400 and the aperture set to f/1.8. I tried several different shutter speeds. For this particularly snap, I was at 3/10s.

You must know your camera inside and out. When you can see something is not working as planned- or your camera is not set as you thought it was- or an unexpected event happens like the ride comes to a stop- can you change your ISO? or your Focus Mode? or your Metering Mode? all in complete darkness? Nothing like drawing a mental blank on where some little thumb switch is located while the shot you wanted is passing right by- or better yet stopped right in front of you.

Anyway- I'll add a few.

 

[Todd_H]

Thanks! It's good to hear it from someone who has pretty much the same set-up that I do. Since your shots above were taken with the D40, my guess is that with the combination of D90 with better quality at higher ISOs combined with the Sigma 30 f/1.4 I should be okay.

I'm much less worried about rides like Splash, Small World and GMR. But for HM, while I don't expect to get any shots of hitchhiking ghosts or the caretaker---I'd like to at least get a shot of something on the ride!!

Don't sell yourself short, Ann. You'll have the tools to come away with some very nice shots in the HM (and I can't wait to see some dark ride shots from a D90). If you're able to use AF as Tom suggested above, I would definitely go that route. However, I would suggest switching to manual focus if you try the hitchhiking ghosts. They are obtainable, but they're very elusive. I don't have advice for the caretaker since nothing I have tried has worked (yet)

 

[Todd_H]

This is a fun discussion and some great points have been made.

One point I think you make Mark without pointing it out directly is here...



You must know your camera inside and out. When you can see something is not working as planned- or your camera is not set as you thought it was- or an unexpected event happens like the ride comes to a stop- can you change your ISO? or your Focus Mode? or your Metering Mode? all in complete darkness? Nothing like drawing a mental blank on where some little thumb switch is located while the shot you wanted is passing right by- or better yet stopped right in front of you.

Anyway- I'll add a few.

Just... awesome

Jeff was my main inspiration for wanting to shoot dark rides to begin with. I always felt that looking at his shots put me on the ride.

 

[WDWFigment]

Wow, thanks Tom. I appreciate that compliment, but I think Mark belongs in that group more than me, especially after than holy grail caretaker shot.

He might very well be, but the caretaker shot is the extent of his images that I’ve seen. Most of my exposure to WDW images has been on Flickr, so that’s the basis of my list. I will have to check out his galleries.

You have some excellent dark ride shots, but this one still amazes me. Did you have to really play with this one in CS3?

If I recall correctly, I adjusted the exposure, increased the recover and shadows, and decreased the highlights in ACR, took it through NN in CS3, and saturated with LAB in CS3. That's it. The original looks pretty similar to the processed version. This isn't that tough of a scene so long as you don't blow out any part of the bride.

All of this talk has me itching to get my D90 on the dark rides. Usable ISO 3200-6400 is going to be so much nicer than usable 1600.

 

[RBennett]

Man I've been reading over this thread and through the other Sigma f/1.4 30/50mm thread and now I'm DYING to get back there!! I'm shooting with my Pentax K100D and my 50mm f/1.4 but it just doesn't compare with some of these shots. I love the advice of putting it in shutter priority Mark and then bump up the ISO. My biggest thing is I forget all of these tips once I get there. Too bad there's not a "dunce" smiley on here. If anyone's in the area around the second week in November, let me know! I may need some expertise help!!

 

[wkrider]

Man I've been reading over this thread and through the other Sigma f/1.4 30/50mm thread and now I'm DYING to get back there!! I'm shooting with my Pentax K100D and my 50mm f/1.4 but it just doesn't compare with some of these shots. I love the advice of putting it in shutter priority Mark and then bump up the ISO. My biggest thing is I forget all of these tips once I get there. Too bad there's not a "dunce" smiley on here. If anyone's in the area around the second week in November, let me know! I may need some expertise help!!

RBennett,

I am in the same boat as you. K100D with a 50, 1.4. I too am very thankful for all the good advise and cannot wait until I am back at the world in Oct. during the food and wine fest. I came up with a plan so I will not forget all the advise and suggestions. I am putting it all in a world document then taking it with me as reference material. Who cares if I look like a dork ready instructions before I get on a ride, I am going to do it. So thanks again to you all the have given your pointers.

 

[MarkBarbieri]

It's probably worth mentioning that the pictures you see here are relatively low resolution. They've been resized from their original. If you look at the originals, you'll see a lot more noise, blur, etc. Lower resolution masks a lot of defects. If you go dark ride shooting and you pull up your pictures on your computer at high resolution, don't be surprised if they look a bit nastier. It's the same phenomena that makes your pictures look great on your camera's LCD but they look like crud on your computer.

 

[disneygirlinnj]

Thanks for all of the great info everyone! My last trip in May I had my DSLR for the first time in Disney. For all dark rides I threw on the 50mm and threw it in f/1.8 and put it in Shutter mode. I was still completely learning so I didn't get a whole lot of great shot but here's some of them. I definitey will use your tips when I go in Sept, I can't wait!

Oh and none were touched with Photoshop. I had way too many photos and gave up processing any of them!

luckily the ride stopped right here on Nemo

 

[oregondaddyof2]

What kind of camera where you using disneygirlinnj?

 

[MarkBarbieri]

He might very well be, but the caretaker shot is the extent of his images that I’ve seen. Most of my exposure to WDW images has been on Flickr, so that’s the basis of my list. I will have to check out his galleries.

I'm not in that upper league for dark ride shots. I know the theory well enough to start this thread and I got a really luck shot with the caretaker, but I'm not a dark ride specialist.

 

[scoot241]

I really like this one!

 

[KarenAylwood]

I saw mention of AF vs MF. How do you manually focus the camera for dark rides? Is this the preferred method? Are you constantly changing the focus? I'm just nervous about this being hard to do on the fly.

 

[MarkBarbieri]

I used continous AF on my camera rather than manual focus. I suck at MF. It worked reasonably well, but there were cases when I had trouble getting focus, but it worked for most things. The cases where I couldn't get focus were usually also cases where I was going to get a decent shot anyway.

I have my camera set up so that it doesn't focus when I press the shutter button. I have a separate button on the back for AF. Most of my lenses allow for manual focus in auto-focus mode. That allows me to easily switch between MF and AF. I couldn't do it on the really dark rides because my 50mm f/1.8 doesn't allow this. I do it a lot in other cases like shooting through a screen, picking out one person in a crowd, or other cases where I want to override what the camera thinks it should be focused on.

 

[disneygirlinnj]

What kind of camera where you using disneygirlinnj?

I have a Canon Rebel Xti...love it to pieces..although I am debating upgrading soon.

 

[EnnEss]

This is a great thread full of amazing tips. Thank you very much for the tip on setting the exposure to negative to keep the mood. I never thought of that and often felt my pictures were overly bright. Thanks again so much!