Expiration Dates

[JPDtheJD]

I have asked the brokers on resale contracts and I haven't gotten responses yet. Can anybody tell me what the last date is that points are allocated on the 2042 contracts? For example, on a December use year contract, is there an allocation made 12/1/2041 AND on 12/1/2042? It seems that if all those contracts expire January 31, 2042 then the use years Feb-Dec don't get an 2042 allocation. Am I crazy? Running numbers...

 

[graychef]

I have asked the brokers on resale contracts and I haven't gotten responses yet. Can anybody tell me what the last date is that points are allocated on the 2042 contracts? For example, on a December use year contract, is there an allocation made 12/1/2041 AND on 12/1/2042? It seems that if all those contracts expire January 31, 2042 then the use years Feb-Dec don't get an 2042 allocation. Am I crazy? Running numbers...

The way I understand it is that owners won't be able to make reservations beyond January 31, 2042, under the existing contracts.

However, I have no idea on the banking rules at that time.

 

[disneygirlinnj]

From posts I've seen on other boards, it seems as though no one is 100% sure. Granted we have a few years to figure this out but consensus is that points will only be given up until 2041 and must be used by the 2042 date. But again, no one is 100% sure.

 

[LisaS]

It seems that if all those contracts expire January 31, 2042 then the use years Feb-Dec don't get an 2042 allocation.

There is no Jan UY so no worries that one group will get something nobody else gets.

DVC has not stated what will happen at the end but if you look at how dues relate to UY, my guess is that they will pro-rate the points for the 2041 UYs based on the overlap with the 2041 calendar year.

For example, for those with a Dec UY the dues paid in Jan 2041 for the 2041 calendar year cover the final 11 months of the Dec 2040 UY and the first month of the Dec 2041 UY. Assuming no dues are assessed for Jan 2042, the final dues paid cover 1/12th of the 2041 UY points so that will be all they get in their final UY. Those points will be available for stays from Dec 1, 2041-Jan 31, 2042.

Similarly, the dues paid in Jan 2041 for an Oct UY contract cover the final 9 months of the 2040 UY and the first 3 months of the 2041 UY so they would get 3/12ths of their annual allotment for their Oct 2041 UY and could use those points for stays from Oct 1, 2041 - Jan 31, 2042.

Looking at the opposite end, dues paid in Jan 2041 for a Feb UY contract cover the final month of the Feb 2040 UY and the first 11 months of the Feb 2041 UY so those with a Feb UY will get 11/12ths of their 2041UY points, usable for stays from Feb 1, 2041 - Jan 31, 2042.

Since the end date is Jan 31, 2042 and not Dec 31, 2041 it's possible they will charge everyone for the month of January 2042 and give everyone that additional month's worth of points as well.

Now if they are really generous, they will give everyone a full set of 2041 UY points despite the fact that those with UYs later in the year didn't pay all of the dues on those points but I doubt it. I think that would result in too many points left in the system and not enough rooms available for members to use them all.

 

[JPDtheJD]

Thanks, LisaS. That was even more info than what I was thinking of. I was just trying to calculate what my buy-in cost per point would be on the 2042 contracts and you gave me even more info!

The brokers responded back and said that there would be no 2042 points allocated on those contracts.

 

[Dean]

As noted, there are no specifics on this issue. To my knowledge, DVD or DVC has never spoken to it. The absolute fact is that there are not enough villas to accommodate all points the last 2 use years or possibly more. They likely will eliminate banking the last few years. Options would include a free for all, lottery system, volunteer opt out without dues or some type of proration option with reduced dues.

 

[CarolMN]

....(snip)..... Options would include a free for all, lottery system, volunteer opt out without dues or some type of proration option with reduced dues.

Or perhaps the owners of the 2042 contracts will have been offered extensions, making the situation even more complicated.

As some have already posted, we don't know and DVC isn't talkin' bout it.

 

[DenLo]

I agree with the brokers as there is no January UY, so no one is eligible for 2042 points.

As to the comments regarding banking, I expect banking will be suspended or modified so that there won't be more points pushed into 2041 than can be used. I wouldn't be surprised that DVC also limits booking of reservations to current owners for 2041 and January 2042.

 

[Dean]

Or perhaps the owners of the 2042 contracts will have been offered extensions, making the situation even more complicated.

As some have already posted, we don't know and DVC isn't talkin' bout it.

That doesn't change the issue only kicks the can down the road for a given resort. I doubt DVC knows what they'll do but I'm sure the VP types and voting rep would be happy to discuss it if asked. With the OKW extension fiasco, possible extensions will be complicated at best though I'd bet VB won't be extended and thus we should have an idea of how this is likely to go in around 20-24 years.

 

[zavandor]

It bugs me out that we don't know this. How is it possible that we don't know what will happen the last year of our contracts?
It looks like there is no law enforcing anything and DVC can choose how to behave.
In the gran scheme of things and after spending thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) dollars over the contract life, the last hundreds points make little difference. I'm just surprised that there is such an uncertain point in our contracts.

 

[Dean]

Or perhaps the owners of the 2042 contracts will have been offered extensions, making the situation even more complicated.

As some have already posted, we don't know and DVC isn't talkin' bout it.

It bugs me out that we don't know this. How is it possible that we don't know what will happen the last year of our contracts?
It looks like there is no law enforcing anything and DVC can choose how to behave.
In the gran scheme of things and after spending thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) dollars over the contract life, the last hundreds points make little difference. I'm just surprised that there is such an uncertain point in our contracts.

Technically it's because they have free reign for reservation decisions along with the special season preference list and lottery options. My best guess is a combo of voluntary opt out and pro rationing with fees consistent with points used.

 

[tjkraz]

It bugs me out that we don't know this. How is it possible that we don't know what will happen the last year of our contracts?
It looks like there is no law enforcing anything and DVC can choose how to behave.
In the gran scheme of things and after spending thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) dollars over the contract life, the last hundreds points make little difference. I'm just surprised that there is such an uncertain point in our contracts.

The safe assumptions are:

1) The final points owners will receive will be for their 2041 Use Year.
2) The final day to use those points for a DVC resort stay is 1/31/2042.
3) Full 2041 dues will be charged and there may be some proration for January '42.

With the contracts ending on 1/31/42, the above is all DVC is legally obligated to provide. They COULD choose to be more flexible--perhaps allowing owners access for their full '41 Use Year (i.e. December owners would have until 11/30/42 to complete their stays.) But DVC has no obligation to do so.

The proper expectation is to assume that you will have no resort access from 2/1 forward. Reservations will be doled-out on a first-come, first-served basis. Members who cannot get a reservation before 2/1 will simply lose their points.

Any ambiguities are entirely reliant upon Disney's willingness to go above-and-beyond that requirement...to grant access after 1/31/42. But it's unreasonable to expect them to commit to exceptions / concessions nearly 3 decades before the event will occur.

 

[Dean]

The safe assumptions are:

1) The final points owners will receive will be for their 2041 Use Year.
2) The final day to use those points for a DVC resort stay is 1/31/2042.
3) Full 2041 dues will be charged and there may be some proration for January '42.

With the contracts ending on 1/31/42, the above is all DVC is legally obligated to provide. They COULD choose to be more flexible--perhaps allowing owners access for their full '41 Use Year (i.e. December owners would have until 11/30/42 to complete their stays.) But DVC has no obligation to do so.

The proper expectation is to assume that you will have no resort access from 2/1 forward. Reservations will be doled-out on a first-come, first-served basis. Members who cannot get a reservation before 2/1 will simply lose their points.

Any ambiguities are entirely reliant upon Disney's willingness to go above-and-beyond that requirement...to grant access after 1/31/42. But it's unreasonable to expect them to commit to exceptions / concessions nearly 3 decades before the event will occur.

Tim, there is not enough villas to cover all 2041 points so some type of limitation will be a must.

 

[wdrl]

Tim, there is not enough villas to cover all 2041 points.

Can you explain?

 

[supersnoop]

Can you explain?

In theory, there will be availability equal to the number of points available. But, If you have a December use year, you'll get your 2041 points with only two months to use them. Since everybody will have the opportunity to book that timeframe, you may not be able to actually get a reservation. People with a February use year will have the entire year to burn their points. Unless dvc restricts you to the first two months of your use year, the actual occupancy will not be distributed evenly, and later use years owners won't be able to use all of their points.

 

[Msmithmd]

Since many contracts have less than a full calendar year from when their 2041 points are awarded, until January 31, 2042- there would be more points than rooms available to book. Unless DVC rewards fractionally less points to the 2041 UY's, that is.

The most obvious example is the December UY. Those members receiving their points in that 2041 UY would have only two calendar months to use the points. Even if a large number of members borrow into 2040, the system still wouldn't likely cover the last couple of UY worth of points.

My guess (and like everyone else, it's only a guess) is that Disney will allow 12 months from the beginning of every 2041 UY for the members to use those last points. They don't have to do this, but I believe that they will.

Unless there is a major change in the business model before the end of the 2042 contracts, DVC will still be wanting to sell more points, and the "expiring members" will be the obvious low-hanging fruit.

Whether it will be contract extensions or new contract offers, I really believe it is in Disney's business interest to keep these members satisfied and desiring to continue with DVC. Even if it is within the contract terms for them to shut down those resorts on Feb 1, 2042, I just don't think they will, for these reasons.

 

[tjkraz]

Tim, there is not enough villas to cover all 2041 points so some type of limitation will be a must.

Agree. But with the stated end date of 1/31/2042, I'm not sure DVC is under any obligation to guarantee that every member can use their points. First come, first served.

Most conservative assumption is that all owners will have to do their best to use points before the end of January. DVC could extend that date but I wouldn't expect such a decision to be made for many years.

Another factor in overall availability will be owner defaults. Could see a lot of people try to walk away in the last couple of years. That would help ease the availability issue.

 

[lovin'fl]

In theory, there will be availability equal to the number of points available. But, If you have a December use year, you'll get your 2041 points with only two months to use them. Since everybody will have the opportunity to book that timeframe, you may not be able to actually get a reservation. People with a February use year will have the entire year to burn their points. Unless dvc restricts you to the first two months of your use year, the actual occupancy will not be distributed evenly, and later use years owners won't be able to use all of their points.

As well as resorts expiring past 2042 being able to borrow...unless nobody will be allowed to borrow from 2041 and 2042 points.

 

[Dean]

Agree. But with the stated end date of 1/31/2042, I'm not sure DVC is under any obligation to guarantee that every member can use their points. First come, first served.

Most conservative assumption is that all owners will have to do their best to use points before the end of January. DVC could extend that date but I wouldn't expect such a decision to be made for many years.

Another factor in overall availability will be owner defaults. Could see a lot of people try to walk away in the last couple of years. That would help ease the availability issue.

I think legally they'll have to either provide usage options above simply taking your chances OR not charge dues on unused points.

As well as resorts expiring past 2042 being able to borrow...unless nobody will be allowed to borrow from 2041 and 2042 points.

They could increase the home resort window and reduce the lead time for others as low as 4 months. They could extend some, this would ease the pressure on a given resort as well.