Every Wish That We Put Into Motion.... (comments welcome!)

[michigandergirl]

I haven't been on the boards much lately, but just wanted to say CONGRATS on your first marathon!!!

I bet that dip in Lake Michigan felt amazing afterward.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Revised pacing?
-I don’t know if it’ll need to change at all, but I’m also willing to do a HR test (the hr test in the daniels book seems like it would be pretty easy, and I have a big hill just down the road I could use) if additional data would be appropriate. I’m OK with what I have at the moment because my goals for MW are to finish the races and have fun. I’m going to try some very very easy jogging on the treadmill next week and just see how it feels because I’m feeling mostly normal today, and I'll probably start some lifting again next week also, probably concentrating on upper body for a week before adding lower body 2 weeks post marathon.

It's always good to re-assess whether the pacing was too fast or too slow. Appropriate pacing is always a good key to the training. You could do a MM or a HR test, but I'd probably wait to do either until at least 3-4 weeks of consistent running again. Anything prior probably wouldn't be very reflective of your actual fitness level or HR data.

Looking ahead to a training plan and juggling DS2 and then DS1’s basketball schedules:
-My plan over the summer had Wednesday and Saturday off, and Monday was usually a light mileage day. That is probably going to continue to work the best as ALL of DS2’s games fall on those days and mess with my daily schedule more.

Do you also still want every other Sunday off as well (a complete weekend off every other weekend)? And the peak of the week on Fridays?

-Maaaaaaaybe another holiday themed 5k in December (possibly on Dec. 19th) if I can find one that is nearby and inexpensive enough for a group of us to do? Again, not for time, just for fun. I’m not sure if there are many of these in my area.

FYI, that would be peak week if we follow a traditional 3-week taper (which you should). So your hardest/longest day would be Dec 17th, two days prior. You usually had a weekend off the weekend after the long LR, but I could imagine a VERY easy 5k could go fine.

Realistic logistics:
Anything faster than LR is tough to do with the stroller. Some speedwork could be done on the treadmill if it’s something that I really *should* be doing. The weather is probably going to start getting weird in the beginning of November.

And when should I assume you'll be running with a stroller?

 

[Herding_Cats]

I haven't been on the boards much lately, but just wanted to say CONGRATS on your first marathon!!!

I bet that dip in Lake Michigan felt amazing afterward.

it really did! And thanks!

It's always good to re-assess whether the pacing was too fast or too slow. Appropriate pacing is always a good key to the training. You could do a MM or a HR test, but I'd probably wait to do either until at least 3-4 weeks of consistent running again. Anything prior probably wouldn't be very reflective of your actual fitness level or HR data.



Do you also still want every other Sunday off as well (a complete weekend off every other weekend)? And the peak of the week on Fridays?

FYI, that would be peak week if we follow a traditional 3-week taper (which you should). So your hardest/longest day would be Dec 17th, two days prior. You usually had a weekend off the weekend after the long LR, but I could imagine a VERY easy 5k could go fine.

And when should I assume you'll be running with a stroller?

I figured waiting on a hr test would be the course of action.

every other Sunday off would be nice but if it would be better to run on sundays I can make it happen. peak fridays should be workable.

I’m not super attached to the December 5k...just throwing the idea out there in case DH decides he wants to do one.

all weekday runs will be done with the stroller if it’s nice enough to be outside. Sunday runs I can do by myself. And if we are getting really specific, I will likely be running everything from nov 15-30 on the treadmill because it’s firearm deer season and I don’t trust my neighbors.

Tangentially, I might lose the nail on my right big toe and I’m not happy about it. Not sure how it’s going to feel running with that.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Thoughts?

 

[Herding_Cats]

that looks great! Thank you so much for taking the time to put it together for me.

I'm not sure what "float" means when I get down to the week of 12/27 (looks like maybe it's my NYE run?)

It's been kind of weird not running this past week....my schedule got all wonky and without something concrete to have to schedule my morning/lunchtime around I did a lot of vegetating. This week will be jam-packed with school conferences, 3 XC meets, and prepping for a 16th b-day party for the oldest. I'm glad I only have 6 miles to run.

 

[DopeyBadger]

I'm not sure what "float" means when I get down to the week of 12/27 (looks like maybe it's my NYE run?)

So traditionally on an interval run, we put the RI at a set pace (WU or EA). But in reality the goal is just to do what feels right on that day between the reps to make sure you can be consistent during the reps themselves. That could mean walking, or some running at easy pace+ walking, or all easy pace. Whereas a "Float" RI means you have an assigned "goal". The goal is to not walk. You should be between LR and EA pace in between the reps. That makes the RI itself part of the workout. So instead of full rest, it's meant to be a little more difficult in between reps.

 

[SheHulk]

Haha I have a run with "float" in it too, in about a month, and I had no idea what that meant. ok I get it now!

 

[Herding_Cats]

Looking at the plan and figuring out how to also work time for lifting in with things, I'm wondering what day of the week I should dedicate to legs (because it'll be easier for me if I just know that a certain day is leg day and arrange the rest of the lifting around that.) Tuesdays? Because it's kind of a medium day and I have Wednesdays off, and it would be on the 3rd day in a row of running, so even though the distance is "medium" it's sort of a hard day? So I keep my hard days hard? I don't think I can fit it in on long run day/Fridays just because that's going to be a basketball night in about a month and I need to be able to get more done in a day than just a load of dishes and running/lifting. If all goes well with the timing of workouts, I can do my run, the toddler will fall asleep for her nap during that, and then continue to sleep while I lift (immediately upon getting back from the run.)

 

[DopeyBadger]

Looking at the plan and figuring out how to also work time for lifting in with things, I'm wondering what day of the week I should dedicate to legs (because it'll be easier for me if I just know that a certain day is leg day and arrange the rest of the lifting around that.) Tuesdays? Because it's kind of a medium day and I have Wednesdays off, and it would be on the 3rd day in a row of running, so even though the distance is "medium" it's sort of a hard day? So I keep my hard days hard? I don't think I can fit it in on long run day/Fridays just because that's going to be a basketball night in about a month and I need to be able to get more done in a day than just a load of dishes and running/lifting. If all goes well with the timing of workouts, I can do my run, the toddler will fall asleep for her nap during that, and then continue to sleep while I lift (immediately upon getting back from the run.)

The other "SOS" day in your plan which is just a longer easy day alternates between Monday and Tuesday depending on the week. So this week it would be Tuesday 10/19 and next week it would be Monday 10/25. So ideally, leg day would also shift to Mon/Tues based on the week. With that being said, if Tuesday works better consistently for your life, then it'll be fine as well.

 

[Herding_Cats]

"New" shoes ordered as of this morning off amazon, which wasn't my favorite (because of potentially dealing with returns) so I'll be doing treadmill-only runs until I'm sure I don't have major heel slippage issues. But the price was too good to pass up. I'm getting the exact same shoe I have right now but in a wide. I do NOT have a wide foot though, so this is my concession to try to get a wider toe box without having to completely switch shoes. I tried on 4 other shoes a couple weeks ago and none of them felt right. Too shallow. Pinching at the forefoot. It was pretty annoying actually that nothing felt even "OK." The silver lining of this is that I can order mens shoes since the standard width is a womens wide in those, so I have a LOT more color choices now.

Still haven't managed to start lifting. Had a crappy Tuesday and took it out on my run; I'm so glad to be done with my post-marathon break because it seems that I've really come to rely on running as my stress relief and 2 weeks off wasn't great for my brain and stress levels.

 

[GollyGadget]

I own a lot of children's shoes because they are wider than women's. I also have small feet so may not be an option for you. One option you may want to look into is the brand Altra, they are known for their wide toe box.

Have you tried the heel lock lacing? I have one pair of shoes laced like the image in the top left because my heel was slipping and I was shocked how well it worked.

 

[Herding_Cats]

yes. I've been using a heel lock to lace all of my athletic shoes since high school because at that time I had a AAA width heel (and wore a size 10....my feet were skis ) I relaced my current shoes for a wide forefoot and didn't have any issues until I ran my marathon at the beginning of the month (no problems aside from "normal" blistering from a couple of long runs) and now half of my big toe nail on my right foot is purple. My shoes were on their way to needing replaced before MW anyway, so I'm hoping switching to a wide width and just really ratcheting the heel lock down will solve the problem.

Altras are 0 drop shoes and switching from my current shoe to a 0 drop in the middle of training seems like a good way to get injured. It is something to consider for next summer though.

 

[GollyGadget]

yes. I've been using a heel lock to lace all of my athletic shoes since high school because at that time I had a AAA width heel (and wore a size 10....my feet were skis ) I relaced my current shoes for a wide forefoot and didn't have any issues until I ran my marathon at the beginning of the month (no problems aside from "normal" blistering from a couple of long runs) and now half of my big toe nail on my right foot is purple. My shoes were on their way to needing replaced before MW anyway, so I'm hoping switching to a wide width and just really ratcheting the heel lock down will solve the problem.

Altras are 0 drop shoes and switching from my current shoe to a 0 drop in the middle of training seems like a good way to get injured. It is something to consider for next summer though.

I have a wide forefoot and skinny heel, so I'm more of a snowshoe than a snow ski ...Fortunately, I've never lost a nail but I do have to keep my toenails very trimmed to avoid stabbing my other toes.

I didn't realize all altras were 0 drop. I started running during the "minimal" craze and prefer a negligible drop. I'm pretty sure the running store hates me because the shoes they think I should wear always feel like high heels to me (it's also probably relevant to mention that I haven't worn a pair of heels in well over a decade). If you're used to having a heel to toe drop, I would suggest switching gradually and not all at once. That's probably obvious, but it doesn't really matter at what point in training that you switch, just that you allow your body time to adjust.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Weekly wrap up!
I managed to get all of my runs in this week (I think?!) Success! My motivation mostly disappeared in the week or so after the marathon and it's been a battle to get myself out the door and doing the running. I have plenty of handy excuses and a full schedule (thanks to having 3 kids in sports) to make it all too easy to just not lace up and run. I'm going back to my summer plan of putting one week at a time up on the dry erase board that organizes everyone's stuff so my 9 year old can nag me about whether or not I did my run.

Monday: 2.5mi EA. 35:06 total time, avg pace 14:01.

Tuesday: 4my EA (ended up more like LR) 52:01 total time, avg pace 12:55. DH got out of work early or something like that on this day and I was in a MOOD, so I just went out and ran and didn't care about my pace because I really needed to burn off some frustration.

Wednesday: off, had a little bit of soreness from Tuesday's exertions, compounded by the fact that I'd run a whopping 6 miles in the 2nd.

Thursday: 2.5mi EA. I have this crossed off on my paper calendar as being ran, but I don't have any info for it on my watch.

Friday: 6mi LR. total time 1:17:25, avg pace 12:53. My phone completely froze up on me as I was trying to get out the door so I had to run with no music, and my playlists are one of the ways that I pace myself, so this was a little rough.

Saturday: off. DS2 had his cross country regional meet (this is the first year they've done a post-season regional meet for MS...they run 2 miles) and ALL of the boys on his team that were able to make it to the meet PR'ed! DS2 ran 12:05 which was a little slower than we were hoping for (he was trying to go sub-12), but it was still a PR by 11 seconds. Not bad for a soccer player who's only strategy was to "run fast and pass people towards the end." He starts basketball, his true passion, on Monday. WOO HOO! Indoor sports! DS1 only has one more for-sure week of XC left. If he goes longer will depend on how his team does at regionals this coming Saturday. DS3 finishes soccer this coming Saturday as well, so we are about to get a one week breather on having only ONE kid in sports for possibly 2 weeks.


Mom-hat aside though, I need to work on some "me" stuff that is running adjacent:

--I really need to commit to getting my weight training in, so that's one of my goals for the week: getting 4 lifting days completed.
--And I need to get my nutrition straightened back out because I'm about 10 pounds above where I was in July. Nothing to kill your mojo like training for a marathon and gaining weight. IDK how I want to approach it this time because counting calories (I've used myfitnesspal before) gets really annoying with how time consuming it is and entering recipes/ingredients and assigning portion sizes takes forever, but using 21DF containers hasn't really worked well for me. I used them for 2.5 months at the beginning of summer and I think I only lost about 5 pounds total on the "B" plan, but I don't think that I'll be getting enough calories to support running AND lifting on the "A" plan. And I'm definitely not interested in anything like gluten-free, dairy-free, or no-sugar diets because that's not a sustainable lifestyle change.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Complete and utter fail on the lifting. Goal was 4 workouts and I did zero. The good news is that I did hit all of my running workouts.
Sunday: 2.5mi EA avg pace 13:22 (a little fast, but I can usually leave the toddler/stroller home on sundays)

Monday: 4mi EA avg pace 13:57

Tuesday: OFF swapped this with Wednesday because we had a whole bunch of stuff going on

Wednesday: 2.5mi EA on the treadmill avg pace 13:44, wore my new 1080s and I think they’re going to work nicely. Heel lock lacing will definitely be needed but there’s a lot more room in the toe box.

Thursday: 2.5mi EA on the treadmill avg pace 13:39

Friday: 5mi LR, got to leave the toddler/stroller home with DH since he got home from work a little early. Avg pace 12:54. Mile 1 was too fast (12:39) and mile 2 was too slow (13:09) but then I found my groove and pretty much hit my pace for the rest of the run.

Saturday: OFF, XC regionals, a ms basketball game, and a 3rd/4th gr soccer game. And then an open race after regionals finished that my oldest 2 boys ran in (which was my oldest’s last race of the season) and his brother played basketball and then got to the race 15min before it started and he ran in that as well. That kid is going to be a beast; he’s been logging miles after basketball practice for a week now. Boy #2 ran 20:13 after his basketball game, which included having to stop and find his race number that fell off his shirt during mile 2. Boy #1 ran 20:37 which was a big disappointment for him. DS2 is running another open race in 2 weeks and I’m trying to convince DS1 to run it as well. He said no, but I think being beaten by his little brother is really bothering him, and the fact that the season didn’t really go how he thought it would (he never broke 20 and his pre-season goal was 18:45.)

Sunday: marathon tempo progression. (1mi M, 1mi M -10sec, 0.5mi M -20sec with recovery intervals between them. No stroller again. 4.98mi avg pace 13:00. This felt soooooo good. I started to feel like I had to concentrate a little more on maintaining the run interval pacing about half way through, but managed to keep it mostly where it needed to be. The downside is that it started raining .25mi in and we had a lovely gusty northerly wind to go with it. So the weather ended up being 47, rain, and a nice breeze. Not my favorite conditions.

warm up mile: 13:47
M tempo mile: 11:50 (goal was 11:55)
M -10 tempo mile: 11:39 (goal was 11:45)
M -20 tempo 1/2 mile: 11:03 way too fast (goal was 11:35) but it felt soooooo good.
cool down mile: 13:39 this was hard to go slow enough after the speedy intervals.

 

[Herding_Cats]

I’m not ready for this.

 

[Naomeri]

I’m not ready for this. View attachment 619227

You keep that stuff away from me!

 

[Herding_Cats]

Honestly, we usually have "that stuff" in the middle of October. And depending on the year it may or may not start sticking around by mid-November. Thankfully, it's supposed to be back up into the 50s by Friday.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Weekly wrap up:


Running--YES!
Lifting-- nope. again. I feel like I'm getting to the point where MW is close enough that starting lifting might not be the best idea and I should just wait until January. IDK. Starting to embrace the treadmill more since treadmill=no stroller.

Monday: 3mi EA. Ran with DS3 (he's almost 10, and we are running the turkey trot 5k together and he understands that he *has* to train if he wants to run in the race) so this ended up being too fast at 13:05 avg pace. I did "surprise" him by running him down the bigger hill on my regular 3mi route.

Tuesday: 5mi EA. Treadmill. The weather was pretty crappy at the beginning of the week. Avg pace 13:37

Wednesday: off

Thursday: 3mi EA. Treadmill again. Avg pace 13:37

Friday: 7.5mi LR, practice nutrition. Tried out a packet of Justin's cinnamon almond butter at around the 4mi mark. This seemed to go well. These are super portable for how many calories they have, AND they're not sweet. This run felt amazing. I did have to change my intervals a little bit (trying to dial in where my sweet spot for a 13mm pace is for intervals without having to stare at my watch a ton) since my first 2 miles were definitely NOT on-pace.
Laps were: 12:49--12:33 (changed the interval after that)--13:05--12:59--12:46--12:51--12:50--12:56. And my VO2max went back to where it was right before my marathon a month ago. I mean, it only dropped 1 point, but it went back up so that makes me happy.

Saturday: off

Sunday: 2.5mi EA with DS3 again. The bottom of my left foot (the one with the funky ankle I've been dealing with since April) was bothering me some and I ended up walking a little bit during this one. Because it was with the kiddo this ended up being too fast again (somehow?!) at 13:22 avg pace, which I am not trusting because my watch was acting up. It updated the GPS on Friday evening and on Saturday with DS2 went to go for his run his watch was dead so I gave him mine.....and he said the GPS never went to "ready." And today at about the .75mi mark it kept pausing and then restarting a bunch of times. I switched it to my other wrist and it quit, but I have never had it do this before and it was really annoying. I do have auto-pause turned on for when I have to wait longer for traffic or if the neighbor's want to talk, and it was like my watch thought I kept stopping. Very annoying.

Starting to feel the urgency to get my "outfit" for the full figured out. Between shipping/handling times for some of the etsy sellers and USPS, I need to make a decision SOON so i can do at least one test run. My half outfit was used for a 10mi training run in September, so it's good to go.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Playing catch up here. It's been not a great week on the running front. But let's recap last week before I have my pity party.

Monday: 4mi EA on the treadmill, avg pace 13:39

Tuesday: pushed this run to Wednesday

Wednesday: I made up for missing Tuesday with 2.5mi EA on the treadmill again avg pace 14:00

Thursday: Oh look, I missed this run completely. My schedule tells me that I also had to take DS1 to a contact lens fitting check, and that probably messed up my whole schedule given the time that appointment was.

Friday: 5mi LR on the treadmill, avg pace 13:08.

Basically, last week the weather was crappy; upper 30s and rainy isn't fun for anything, and taking a toddler out in it (who has recently started yanking her weather shield off the stroller) just isn't going to happen.

Saturday: spent almost 6 hours in the car for DS2 to go run for 20:03 at a post-season XC meet. New PR for him. It would probably have been about 30sec faster (per his coaches) if it wasn't 33 and windy with a mix of rain and snow AND the course was pretty squishy.

Sunday: 1mi WU, 1.5mi M, 4min rest, 1.25mi M-10sec, 4min rest, 0.5mi M-20sec, 1mi CD. On the treadmill. Accidentally pulled the safety key 0.5mi into the first MT section. This ended up being around 1:15:00 for total. I ran way too fast (around 11:45 instead of 12:00) on the first section of M tempo because I was using intervals and trying to figure out the speed setting I needed for the run portion. Next time I'll sit down and do the math beforehand. Maybe.

And now for my pity party.

Monday: didn't run

Tuesday: didn't run. took a nap because me trying to function on 5 hours of sleep 3 nights in a row isn't doing anyone any good.

Wednesday (today): this is usually my off day, but I'm going to do 4mi of EA during nap time.

Rifle/firearm deer season started on Monday so for the rest of the month the plan is to run on the treadmill as an extra cautionary measure. I've started bingeing my way through the marvel movies to help pass the time during the indoor runs. This is also one of my ramping up weeks. And the toddler is not sleeping. We are up 4-6x per night, and up for the day at around 530am. Naptime lasts about 90min if I'm lucky. And I can't run while she's awake because she tries to climb onto the treadmill with me. Additionally, quite a few of our school bus drivers are out with Covid this week and there aren't enough subs to fill all of the routes, so I have had to drive all of the kids to school and pick them up at the end of the day (that's 2 trips in the morning, and 2 in the evening.) High school basketball tryouts have started and DH is on the coaching staff, which means he doesn't get home until after dinner, and if I run that late at night (after 7pm) I can't fall asleep. All of this to say, my schedule has gotten super crazy, and I've failed spectacularly at prioritizing my running. But these things happen. I'm not going to try to make up the miles I have missed because it's not about THIS week, it's about the sum of all 13 weeks. I'm acknowledging that things didn't go great for about a week and moving on.