Essential/Nonessential vs. Safe/Not safe

[b2k1121]

Before the virus we had anywhere between 30-45 million Americans living in poverty, depending on whose stats you trust. Those folks have been living most of their lives without reliable housing, food sources and healthcare. But today, because of this virus, suddenly people in America who did not even think about about the impoverished care what happens to them?

The reality - most of the newcomers to this concern only really care about their personal financial condition, not "poverty in America". They are not really worried about the people who will continue to live in poverty for the rest of their lives when we get back to work. They just want to get back to work and avoid that situation personally.

That's not a bad thing, but let's stop pretending that this is really about concern for the impoverished. Those who didn't care about them 6 months ago, won't care about them 6 months from now. They will move on with their lives.

Exactly.

The 'open our state' protests are being funded by billionaire business owners. They are going to stay safe inside while forcing regular people back to work, endangering them and their families so they can continue with business as usual.

 

[mom2rtk]

Preach! they’re actually worried about their canceled vacation & when they can reschedule

Or maybe they lost their job and health insurance in the middle of a pandemic.

Sheesh.

 

[Searc]

Exactly.

The 'open our state' protests are being funded by billionaire business owners. They are going to stay safe inside while forcing regular people back to work, endangering them and their families so they can continue with business as usual.

Yes, it's the well-known profits over people that dominates American culture.

 

[mom2rtk]

Yes, it's the well-known profits over people that dominates American culture.

Don't you just hate it when people need a paycheck for their families to survive?

 

[b2k1121]

Don't you just hate it when people need a paycheck for their families to survive?

In this unique situation we should be taking care of them with more stimulus, UI, basic income, whatever you want to call it until it's safe to return, not force people into an unsafe working situation.

 

[SaintsManiac]

I hope now people are more willing to pay those grocery store heroes a $15 minimum wage...

 

[mom2rtk]

In this unique situation we should be taking care of them with more stimulus, UI, basic income, whatever you want to call it until it's safe to return, not force people into an unsafe working situation.

But we're not. So what do you suggest they do in the meantime? Should doesn't pay the bills.

And I will add that I don't hear anybody suggesting we just rip it all open and throw caution to the wind. So much more could be open with safe distancing and occupancy limits.

 

[b2k1121]

But we're not. So what do you suggest they do in the meantime? Should doesn't pay the bills.

And I will add that I don't hear anybody suggesting we just rip it all open and throw caution to the wind. So much more could be open with safe distancing and occupancy limits.

People have literally been protesting in Michigan and NC to reopen everything now.

A bill has been brought up to pay $2,000 in basic income per month to most individuals for 6 months, if UI is still high at that point it gets extended. Push on congress to get bills like this through. You can do two things at once, come up with a safe plan to start opening up business and provide relief for everyone that needs it.

 

[Colleen27]

Before the virus we had anywhere between 30-45 million Americans living in poverty, depending on whose stats you trust. Those folks have been living most of their lives without reliable housing, food sources and healthcare. But today, because of this virus, suddenly people in America who did not even think about about the impoverished care what happens to them?

The reality - most of the newcomers to this concern only really care about their personal financial condition, not "poverty in America". They are not really worried about the people who will continue to live in poverty for the rest of their lives when we get back to work. They just want to get back to work and avoid that situation personally.

That's not a bad thing, but let's stop pretending that this is really about concern for the impoverished. Those who didn't care about them 6 months ago, won't care about them 6 months from now. They will move on with their lives.

That's absolutely true... it doesn't make it any less understandable. Of course people are worried about joining the ranks of the impoverished. They're even more worried, in my anecdotal experience, about joining the ranks of the uninsured during a pandemic. The last estimate I saw was that 9.5 million have lost their insurance due to the recent spike in layoffs, and that's something we don't have systems in place to fix - medicaid looks at your last 3 months of income, so it isn't available to the newly unemployed, and the supplemented unemployment benefit will be too high for many to qualify for it but not enough to pay for COBRA.

 

[mom2rtk]

People have literally been protesting in Michigan and NC to reopen everything now.

A bill has been brought up to pay $2,000 in basic income per month to most individuals for 6 months, if UI is still high at that point it gets extended. Push on congress to get bills like this through. You can do two things at once, come up with a safe plan to start opening up business and provide relief for everyone that needs it.

I'm not so sure the protesters are insisting on no regulation. Just fair and reasonable regulation.

Before supporting anything I'd have to know the cost. We have already added 2 TRILLION dollars to our debt. Should we just print more money? I'd be fully in favor if we can confirm how this started and have the responsible country pay.

 

[Colleen27]

People have literally been protesting in Michigan and NC to reopen everything now.

A few whackos in Michigan are saying to open everything now. Reports from Lansing are that some came from out of state just to make their point, based on photos of license plates during the event.

The organizers and most of the participants in the protest were specifically upset about the governor's second order, which they believe is creating unnecessary economic hardship and closing down businesses that can operate safely. And I can't say I disagree. A landscaping company is almost certainly lower risk than a restaurant, even with take-out only rules in place. There's no scientific reason why a nursery is more dangerous than an electronics or office supply store, but the former has to be closed completely while the latter can offer curbside pickup and delivery. Boat launches could have been closed, if there was a concern about social distancing while putting in, without outlawing all boating even for the thousands who dock in their own backyard in our state full of lakes, rivers and canals.

When rules start to appear arbitrary, people are more inclined to question or oppose them. Michigan had *excellent* compliance with the governor's first order. The protest movement didn't start until the second.

 

[Searc]

I hope now people are more willing to pay those grocery store heroes a $15 minimum wage...

I think you know the answer to that sentiment.

 

[NYCgrrl]

I'm not so sure the protesters are insisting on no regulation. Just fair and reasonable regulation.

Before supporting anything I'd have to know the cost. We have already added 2 TRILLION dollars to our debt. Should we just print more money? I'd be fully in favor if we can confirm how this started and have the responsible country pay.

Huh?
Mother Nature has a country?

 

[Colleen27]

A bill has been brought up to pay $2,000 in basic income per month to most individuals for 6 months, if UI is still high at that point it gets extended. Push on congress to get bills like this through. You can do two things at once, come up with a safe plan to start opening up business and provide relief for everyone that needs it.

Can and will are two very different questions, though. I don't want this thread locked like so many others have been, so I'm not going to say more than this: The signal from Washington is that we've spent enough on rescue and there will be no more. So we have to deal with the realities in front of us rather than what would be done in a perfect world, or looking at what other countries are doing for their citizens, or any of the other what-ifs that are at this point nothing more than distractions and wishful thinking.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

That's absolutely true... it doesn't make it any less understandable. Of course people are worried about joining the ranks of the impoverished. They're even more worried, in my anecdotal experience, about joining the ranks of the uninsured during a pandemic. The last estimate I saw was that 9.5 million have lost their insurance due to the recent spike in layoffs, and that's something we don't have systems in place to fix - medicaid looks at your last 3 months of income, so it isn't available to the newly unemployed, and the supplemented unemployment benefit will be too high for many to qualify for it but not enough to pay for COBRA.

My hope would be that people will remember this and change - become more supportive of the impoverished in America. Begin to support programs that could help raise them out of poverty, provide them with reliable shelter, provide them with healthy food choices and healthcare. Maybe we can come out of this better than we went into it.

 

[choirfarm]

I just listened to Gov Abbott and his recommendations seem very reasonable... Allowing all retail to go to pick up methods, opening up elective surgeries with a caveat of making sure ppe and beds remain available, opening back up parks but with masks and social distancing and closing schools for the year. He said more but those are the high points. He seems to be doing it slowly and safely

 

[b2k1121]

I'm not so sure the protesters are insisting on no regulation. Just fair and reasonable regulation.

Before supporting anything I'd have to know the cost. We have already added 2 TRILLION dollars to our debt. Should we just print more money? I'd be fully in favor if we can confirm how this started and have the responsible country pay.

Yes. You are okay with sending people back to work because they are desperate for wages during a pandemic, but adding to the debt to help them is a step too far?

 

[mom2rtk]

Yes. You are okay with sending people back to work because they are desperate for wages during a pandemic, but adding to the debt to help them is a step too far?

No, I'm OK with sending people back to work if it can be done in a safe and reasonable manner.

 

[Farro]

Before the virus we had anywhere between 30-45 million Americans living in poverty, depending on whose stats you trust. Those folks have been living most of their lives without reliable housing, food sources and healthcare. But today, because of this virus, suddenly people in America who did not even think about about the impoverished care what happens to them?

The reality - most of the newcomers to this concern only really care about their personal financial condition, not "poverty in America". They are not really worried about the people who will continue to live in poverty for the rest of their lives when we get back to work. They just want to get back to work and avoid that situation personally.

That's not a bad thing, but let's stop pretending that this is really about concern for the impoverished. Those who didn't care about them 6 months ago, won't care about them 6 months from now. They will move on with their lives.

And most people proclaiming to care about protecting those who will get sick and may die due to Covid, we need to protect our most vulnerable, don't really care about the real issues contributing to this -minorities and low income areas are suffering the most from deaths from this disease. They need better access to healthcare, more affordable healthcare, help in trusting government again, help with economically rebuilding their neighborhoods.

So when Covid is under control, will I see you all back here to continue the discussion about how we can help those affected most by diseases? Healthcare for all?

I do care, about both issues. I'm sure others do too.

 

[b2k1121]

No, I'm OK with sending people back to work if it can be done in a safe and reasonable manner.

And that might be awhile for a lot of people. Shouldn't we help them in the mean time?