ESPN woes continue

[LSLS]

Would gladly debate Hockey history with you. I am 52 years old, been going to Blackhawk games since I was 4. Been to every arena except for where the Isle's play now and been to probably about 200 minor league games. I take a group of about 20 guys on a hockey road trip every single season where we see junior game/minor league game and an NHL game. Been to Hartford with Winipeg being trip #2 many years ago. I have been to Moosejaw and Restigouche and many other places watching the game. I have been to the Joe about a dozen times including this year to say farewell to place I first saw Gordie Howe out on the ice. I have scammed tickets at Nashville many times because they won't sell to my zip code (proud Hawks fan). I have spent many hours after the games in bars seeing and talking to players and coaches (Eric Daze in Columbus was practically an all nighter. Man could he drink!). Drank with Keenan after a slugfest at the Checkerdome in St. Louis where the blues fans chanted something about Secord inhaling. But most of all, I have been to see Hockey where it is a way of life. Where lil kids play in between periods like it is for the Stanley Cup. Best thing I ever saw was having a cab stop 4 blocks from our hotel in Calgary back in the late 80's after being at the Saddledome and seeing a park with grown men playing a rec league game at 11:00 at night outdoors in 10 degree weather. Met some great guys there too.

So, don't be dissing me with any of this REALLY? stuff because I am as big a hockey fan as they come.

Man, why would you do that to yourself? That place was as big a dump as I have ever been to. History is overrated to me when going to an event, give me actual seats and a concourse (love when they do something cool with the old buildings though).

Anyways, I'm actually enjoying ESPN blowing up (I dislike so much of what they have done). You can say this directly impacts the parks, but I would disagree. I don't think if ESPN was setting all-time records, Iger would decide against raising ticket prices/hotel prices.

 

[Rusty2rules]

That's why they should sell espn off now

I can see that happening. That's probably what they should do. I've seen (and used) the hashtag #thanksshanghai in response to Disney price increases and cut backs. Maybe we should start using #thanksespn along with it.

 

[Tigger's ally]

Man, why would you do that to yourself? That place was as big a dump as I have ever been to. History is overrated to me when going to an event, give me actual seats and a concourse (love when they do something cool with the old buildings though).

Anyways, I'm actually enjoying ESPN blowing up (I dislike so much of what they have done). You can say this directly impacts the parks, but I would disagree. I don't think if ESPN was setting all-time records, Iger would decide against raising ticket prices/hotel prices.

if you think that was a dump, you should have been a regular at the Post (Bar in the dungeon across the street and down a level)

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I can see that happening. That's probably what they should do. I've seen (and used) the hashtag #thanksshanghai in response to Disney price increases and cut backs. Maybe we should start using #thanksespn along with it.

Actually...there's no comparison...

Shanghai is a "nuisance"...espn is a disease.

Just looks at the rough breakdown of where the profits come from:

Tv: 40%
Parks: 30%
Movies: 10%
Consumer provided: 10%
Other media: 10%

Now...parks is misleading because nearly all the profits come from products in there (nobody believes me...it just happens to be the fact)

But in that tv bracket...it's estimated that as much as 90% of these numbers is espn...and it's been that way for 20 years...

That is an "iceberg" sized hole in the Disney ship...it can't be overstated what the failure of espn would mean.

In essence, Disney is going to become a smaller business no matter what.

 

[Rusty2rules]

Now...parks is misleading because nearly all the profits come from products in there (nobody believes me...it just happens to be the fact)

From the full year earnings report for fiscal 2016:

The improvement at Walt Disney World Resort was due to lower costs and guest spending growth, partially offset by lower volumes. Guest spending growth was driven by higher average ticket prices and room rates and increased food and beverage spending.

 

[Rusty2rules]

Interesting articles on this very subject.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2016/12/12/why-disney-should-spin-off-espn.aspx

http://www.themeparkinsider.com/flume/201610/5312/

 

[rteetz]

And then you have this

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/trav...ct-disney-iger-succession-20170210-story.html

 

[LeeAndRobin]

The only part I would disagree with is it being a southern sport. It's harder to get the foothold, but far from impossible. I will say Miami in general is just not a sports town. But you need to field consistently competitive teams. Heck, the Pens were going to move before they got Crosby. Tampa and Nashville are 100% attendance for the year. Ironically, Colorado, Ottawa, and the Isles are towards the bottom (which are three places you would not expect).

But it's getting the kids to play in the South (guess I shouldn't have said that was the reason, more of a very good effect of it). Look at a place like Tampa. They went from 0 rinks to I believe over a dozen. That doesn't happen without the Lightning (who by the way are funding a lot of them and providing alumni to help teach kids to love the game now). And they are starting to produce players. Sure they can't play for cheap, but it's near-impossible for players to become great at hockey without money (it's a really elitist sport), so I don't think that is quite too much of a deterrent.

With all due respect, people who's families have lived in the South for generations don't really consider Florida, and especially South Florida, to be part of the true South. Why? Because the majority of the population there (or at least the impression that the majority of the population there) are transplants from the North or the Caribbean. Just because someone moves to an area doesn't suddenly make them a native of that area. People in Vermont don't consider people who move there from elsewhere to be true Vermonters, even people from NH LOL. It takes a few generations before you can claim that. Same is true for Fl. Just because you or your parents moved to South Florida doesn't make you a Florida native, just as me moving to Germany wouldn't make me German. This is why hockey teams have moved from the North to NC, Fl, Az, and Tn. Because large numbers of hockey fans have moved South, enough to at least minimally support those teams. That doesn't translate to there magically being a giant rise in native Southerners becoming hockey fans.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

With all due respect, people who's families have lived in the South for generations don't really consider Florida, and especially South Florida, to be part of the true South. Why? Because the majority of the population there (or at least the impression that the majority of the population there) are transplants from the North or the Caribbean. Just because someone moves to an area doesn't suddenly make them a native of that area. People in Vermont don't consider people who move there from elsewhere to be true Vermonters, even people from NH LOL. It takes a few generations before you can claim that. Same is true for Fl. Just because you or your parents moved to South Florida doesn't make you a Florida native, just as me moving to Germany wouldn't make me German. This is why hockey teams have moved from the North to NC, Fl, Az, and Tn. Because large numbers of hockey fans have moved South, enough to at least minimally support those teams. That doesn't translate to there magically being a giant rise in native Southerners becoming hockey fans.

You just pointed out why Florida is better...sometimes

 

[rteetz]

Guys, this discussion is about ESPN not the NHL and Hockey in the south.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

ESPN is collapsing...are there any other relevant takes?

 

[Maineiak]

ESPN is collapsing...are there any other relevant takes?

First Take on ESPN should debate this topic! We could all listen to Stephen A. yell at Max about the future direction of ESPN....

 

[jknezek]

Part of the reason ESPN is failing is Stephen A is constantly on and does nothing but yell. It's essentially unwatchable. I used to really like PTI years ago. But when they spun it off into Around the Horn, First and 10, and 400 other similar shows, it just got to be too much of the same thing. There isn't enough news for that many shows back to back to back to all sit around and yell at each other about the same thing. I keep looking at those skinny bundles and I'm getting close to pulling the trigger on one when my contract runs out this year. I doubt I will have ESPN, or anything more than ESPN 1 at any rate. I won't miss it.

 

[Josh Hendy]

In theory ESPN's collapse shouldn't affect the theme parks negatively. They should be almost entirely separate business units with their own separate logic of pricing, reinvestment, etc.

UNLESS ... management is so desperate to shore up the stock price in the short term that they'll scavenge profits from the theme parks ... as well as scavenging from the dwindling ESPN subscriber base instead of adopting new technology/solutions as fast as possible.

Robert Niles' (theme park insider) column was somewhat funny. He didn't use the analogy, but he is essentially pointing out that if ESPN is like the Titanic, Disney is still making far too much money off the Titanic Lounge liquor sales to switch its business focus to selling life jackets and lifeboat tickets.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

First Take on ESPN should debate this topic! We could all listen to Stephen A. yell at Max about the future direction of ESPN....

ESPN has been so sucky for so long that I actually have no idea what you're talking about.

And I grew up in the "espn generation"...right down the middle since day one.

It's awful...completely.

 

[rteetz]

ESPN has been so sucky for so long that I actually have no idea what you're talking about.

And I grew up in the "espn generation"...right down the middle since day one.

It's awful...completely.

Come on now Stephen A Smith is everywhere. I will take Stephen any day over Skip Bayless though.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

In theory ESPN's collapse shouldn't affect the theme parks negatively. They should be almost entirely separate business units with their own separate logic of pricing, reinvestment, etc.

UNLESS ... management is so desperate to shore up the stock price in the short term that they'll scavenge profits from the theme parks ... as well as scavenging from the dwindling ESPN subscriber base instead of adopting new technology/solutions as fast as possible.

Robert Niles' (theme park insider) column was somewhat funny. He didn't use the analogy, but he is essentially pointing out that if ESPN is like the Titanic, Disney is still making far too much money off the Titanic Lounge liquor sales to switch its business focus to selling life jackets and lifeboat tickets.

I think you know the answers to all your postulating...and it does hurt parks.

Comcast - ironically - will have different but similar issues a little farther down the line...hence their aggressiveness in parks. Brand acquisition, physical attractions, etc.

I had read a purely theoretical essay a few years ago that seemed to think that Comcast approached Lucas and offered to double the price...which wouldn't be shocking to find it were true in the future.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Come on now Stephen A Smith is everywhere. I will take Stephen any day over Skip Bayless though.

I wouldn't watch that clown for a second...and as I said...I go back to Australian rules football and roller derby on espn.

 

[Rusty2rules]

Guys, this discussion is about ESPN not the NHL and Hockey in the south.

THANK YOU!!!

 

[Madonna3]

At this rate...espn is gonna be lucky to survive till 2021...

They are likely to be spun off/sold and may just collapse into the NBA network and the college regional sports networks.

I thought you might find this interesting

http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/06/investing/disney-espn-spinoff/index.html?iid=EL