ESPN woes continue

[LSLS]

Realizing that US ratings don't take into account Canadian tv and never did, correct?

Also with respect to our discussion here, I'm almost positive ESPN is not available in Canada anyways (TSN is essentially their version as I think ESPN owns a small share of it), so if you believe hockey would help the network, it wouldn't matter in the large market.

Moving hockey teams to the South had way less to do with "getting athletes from the south to play hockey" than it did with the fact tons of people have moved to the South from the North (same reason they can't build Catholic churches and schools fast enough around Charlotte where I grew up). Unlike Pittsfield, MA where the lake freezes over every winter and you can ice fish and play hockey for much of the winter, that doesn't happen in the South. Ever. And never has. The only place to play hockey in the south is at an indoor rink, which involves spending money. Kids don't grow up playing hockey in the South, unless perhaps their parents are from up North and encourage it. That said, many years ago when I was growing up there was a convenient indoor rink in Eastland mall where we would go to ice skate a few times a year, along with a minor league hockey team called the Charlotte Checkers which we occasionally went to see. However, because you can't just walk out your back door and play hockey down here, those two things didn't inspire anyone I knew growing up to want to play hockey. Hockey is not a Southern sport for these reasons (and probably lots of others).

The only part I would disagree with is it being a southern sport. It's harder to get the foothold, but far from impossible. I will say Miami in general is just not a sports town. But you need to field consistently competitive teams. Heck, the Pens were going to move before they got Crosby. Tampa and Nashville are 100% attendance for the year. Ironically, Colorado, Ottawa, and the Isles are towards the bottom (which are three places you would not expect).

But it's getting the kids to play in the South (guess I shouldn't have said that was the reason, more of a very good effect of it). Look at a place like Tampa. They went from 0 rinks to I believe over a dozen. That doesn't happen without the Lightning (who by the way are funding a lot of them and providing alumni to help teach kids to love the game now). And they are starting to produce players. Sure they can't play for cheap, but it's near-impossible for players to become great at hockey without money (it's a really elitist sport), so I don't think that is quite too much of a deterrent.

All that said, no, I don't think hockey would save ESPN . I do think hockey is growing some, and has the potential to grow a lot more if NBC would get out of it's way (the amount of times listening to guys like Milbury just trash potential stars or great team as not that good just makes my blood boil), but it's not solving their issues, and people won't pony up a large amount of money to get the network online just to watch it.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The pens were NEVER gonna move...just to be clear. They've had the largest outside of market NHL fan base since the early 90's. That was all politics in the formerly respectable commonwealth of Pennsylvania

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The only thing that would resurrect espn would be to get the main NFL contract...the NHL was offerend up as part of a larger, damage control package.

 

[TwoMisfits]

The only thing that would resurrect espn would be to get the main NFL contract...the NHL was offerend up as part of a larger, damage control package.

I actually disagree and agree with a PP...the only thing that can save ESPN is to purge all commentary and return to sports 24-7. Once it became commentary (which was off-putting to 50% of the country), its subscriber base took a nose dive. MSNBC, Foxnews, and CNN capably cover all the commentary, which I call the "stupid", you could ever want. Sports was always the escape from this stupid...but ESPN, in the last decade, made its channels about the stupid (probably to fill all its eternal channels in a cheaper way)...and did it to the detriment of actually showing live sports...

I remember the days I used to watch live sports of 4-5 types in a single day on main ESPN...I don't think they always show even 2 sporting events in a day anymore...

Here's tomorrow's schedule - 2 college basketball games for all live sports shown for the day on the main ESPN network...that's embarrassing for the premier sport network...

Tuesday, Mar 7
12:00
AMSportsCenter with Scott Van Pelt1 hrLIVE
1:00
AMSportsCenter1 hrLIVE
2:00
AMSportsCenter1 hrLIVE
3:00
AMSportsCenter1 hr
4:00
AMSportsCenter1 hr
5:00
AMSportsCenter1 hr
6:00
AMSportsCenter1 hr
7:00
AMSportsCenter1 hrLIVE
8:00
AMSportsCenter1 hrLIVE
9:00
AMSportsCenter1 hrLIVE
10:00
AMFirst Take2 hrLIVE
12:00
PMSportsCenter1 hrLIVE
1:00
PMOutside The Lines30 minLIVE
1:30
PMNFL Insiders30 minLIVE
2:00
PMNFL Live1 hrLIVE
3:00
PMNBA: The Jump30 minLIVE
3:30
PMSportsNation1 hrLIVE
4:30
PMHighly Questionable30 minNEW
5:00
PMAround the Horn30 minNEW
5:30
PMPardon the Interruption30 minNEW
6:00
PMSportsCenter with Michael and Jemele1 hrLIVE
7:00
PMHorizon League Basketball Tournament:The title game in Detroit — The title game in Detroit2 hrLIVE
9:00
PMWest Coast Basketball Tournament:The title game in Las Vegas — The title game in Las Vegas2 hrLIVE
11:00
PMSportsCenter

In fact, for the next week, the only live sports on the flagship ESPN channel for the week are college basketball and NBA basketball games...so basketball, basketball, basketball...when there are worlds of other sports they could show in this week...

 

[rteetz]

I actually disagree and agree with a PP...the only thing that can save ESPN is to purge all commentary and return to sports 24-7. Once it became commentary (which was off-putting to 50% of the country), its subscriber base took a nose dive. MSNBC, Foxnews, and CNN capably cover all the commentary, which I call the "stupid", you could ever want. Sports was always the escape from this stupid...but ESPN, in the last decade, made its channels about the stupid (probably to fill all its eternal channels in a cheaper way)...and did it to the detriment of actually showing live sports...

I remember the days I used to watch live sports of 4-5 types in a single day on main ESPN...I don't think they always show even 2 sporting events in a day anymore...

Here's tomorrow's schedule - 2 college basketball games for all live sports shown for the day on the main ESPN network...that's embarrassing for the premier sport network...

Tuesday, Mar 7
12:00
AMSportsCenter with Scott Van Pelt1 hrLIVE
1:00
AMSportsCenter1 hrLIVE
2:00
AMSportsCenter1 hrLIVE
3:00
AMSportsCenter1 hr
4:00
AMSportsCenter1 hr
5:00
AMSportsCenter1 hr
6:00
AMSportsCenter1 hr
7:00
AMSportsCenter1 hrLIVE
8:00
AMSportsCenter1 hrLIVE
9:00
AMSportsCenter1 hrLIVE
10:00
AMFirst Take2 hrLIVE
12:00
PMSportsCenter1 hrLIVE
1:00
PMOutside The Lines30 minLIVE
1:30
PMNFL Insiders30 minLIVE
2:00
PMNFL Live1 hrLIVE
3:00
PMNBA: The Jump30 minLIVE
3:30
PMSportsNation1 hrLIVE
4:30
PMHighly Questionable30 minNEW
5:00
PMAround the Horn30 minNEW
5:30
PMPardon the Interruption30 minNEW
6:00
PMSportsCenter with Michael and Jemele1 hrLIVE
7:00
PMHorizon League Basketball Tournament:The title game in Detroit — The title game in Detroit2 hrLIVE
9:00
PMWest Coast Basketball Tournament:The title game in Las Vegas — The title game in Las Vegas2 hrLIVE
11:00
PMSportsCenter

In fact, for the next week, the only live sports on the flagship ESPN channel for the week are college basketball and NBA basketball games...so basketball, basketball, basketball...when there are worlds of other sports they could show in this week...

In their defense this is a rather light time for major sporting events. Your big ticket college basketball games aren't until this weekend. Then you get into the NCAA tournament which is owned by CBS. The NBA is in mid season and you have multiple networks owning games there. MLB is in spring training which nobody don't broadcasts. NHL I really don't know because frankly I don't know much about it or with. Then you have the NFL and College Football both not in season.

I am an 18 year old guy and should be one of their target audiences. I watch at least an hour of ESPN everyday whether its a college basketball game or sportscenter. I refuse to watch a lot of the mid day programming because it flat out sucks.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I actually disagree and agree with a PP...the only thing that can save ESPN is to purge all commentary and return to sports 24-7. Once it became commentary (which was off-putting to 50% of the country), its subscriber base took a nose dive. MSNBC, Foxnews, and CNN capably cover all the commentary, which I call the "stupid", you could ever want. Sports was always the escape from this stupid...but ESPN, in the last decade, made its channels about the stupid (probably to fill all its eternal channels in a cheaper way)...and did it to the detriment of actually showing live sports...

I remember the days I used to watch live sports of 4-5 types in a single day on main ESPN...I don't think they always show even 2 sporting events in a day anymore...

Here's tomorrow's schedule - 2 college basketball games for all live sports shown for the day on the main ESPN network...that's embarrassing for the premier sport network...

Tuesday, Mar 7
12:00
AMSportsCenter with Scott Van Pelt1 hrLIVE
1:00
AMSportsCenter1 hrLIVE
2:00
AMSportsCenter1 hrLIVE
3:00
AMSportsCenter1 hr
4:00
AMSportsCenter1 hr
5:00
AMSportsCenter1 hr
6:00
AMSportsCenter1 hr
7:00
AMSportsCenter1 hrLIVE
8:00
AMSportsCenter1 hrLIVE
9:00
AMSportsCenter1 hrLIVE
10:00
AMFirst Take2 hrLIVE
12:00
PMSportsCenter1 hrLIVE
1:00
PMOutside The Lines30 minLIVE
1:30
PMNFL Insiders30 minLIVE
2:00
PMNFL Live1 hrLIVE
3:00
PMNBA: The Jump30 minLIVE
3:30
PMSportsNation1 hrLIVE
4:30
PMHighly Questionable30 minNEW
5:00
PMAround the Horn30 minNEW
5:30
PMPardon the Interruption30 minNEW
6:00
PMSportsCenter with Michael and Jemele1 hrLIVE
7:00
PMHorizon League Basketball Tournament:The title game in Detroit — The title game in Detroit2 hrLIVE
9:00
PMWest Coast Basketball Tournament:The title game in Las Vegas — The title game in Las Vegas2 hrLIVE
11:00
PMSportsCenter

In fact, for the next week, the only live sports on the flagship ESPN channel for the week are college basketball and NBA basketball games...so basketball, basketball, basketball...when there are worlds of other sports they could show in this week...

I think the "commentary" excuse has been played up by agenda driven "news" and is over stated...not imagined...Overstated. They still have enough cornland programming to keep bud advertising on there...

ESPN cannot go back to games because they have too many stations AND...they don't have the kind of rights/freedom/flexibility to show those games to a captive audience.

I'll give you an example: 15 years ago I would watch many a dodgers vs Barry bonds...errr "giants" games because it was what's available...
Or avalanche vs stars...it was a simpler world.

Now I have had MLB.tv and NHL.tv on auto renewal for 10 years...what I want in real time or on demand.

That doesn't even go into the league run stations...which while repetitive, do talk about the sport and the players unlike sports center.

And there's the NBA problem...like always, Disney thinks that because they paid big for the NBA then everyone must love it, Right?

Wrong...that's still a niche sport...it's just plugged into a larger niche and sells crap product.

Come to think of it...it's like Disney invented the NBA

 

[lockedoutlogic]

In their defense this is a rather light time for major sporting events. Your big ticket college basketball games aren't until this weekend. Then you get into the NCAA tournament which is owned by CBS. The NBA is in mid season and you have multiple networks owning games there. MLB is in spring training which nobody don't broadcasts. NHL I really don't know because frankly I don't know much about it or with. Then you have the NFL and College Football both not in season.

I am an 18 year old guy and should be one of their target audiences. I watch at least an hour of ESPN everyday whether its a college basketball game or sportscenter. I refuse to watch a lot of the mid day programming because it flat out sucks.

ESPN has been contracting/shrinking hard for 5 years...it's not a "regional" or seasonal thing...the minute iger acknowledged that it was a "trend", the game was over.

And in a month Disney had lost 20% of its value. Be careful what you say, orange Bob...

 

[rteetz]

ESPN has been contracting/shrinking hard for 5 years...it's not a "regional" or seasonal thing...the minute iger acknowledged that it was a "trend", the game was over.

And in a month Disney had lost 20% of its value. Be careful what you say, orange Bob...

My point was this is rather a light week for sporting events. The poster picked 3/7/17 when there are more sporting events on tv other days. I agree the NBA thing is a problem but when you are around 17-20 somethings all the time like I am they love the NBA. Myself, no. I will watch College Basketball 100 times before I watch an NBA game and I even work at an NBA arena (in addition to an NFL and MLB stadium).

 

[lockedoutlogic]

My point was this is rather a light week for sporting events. The poster picked 3/7/17 when there are more sporting events on tv other days. I agree the NBA thing is a problem but when you are around 17-20 somethings all the time like I am they love the NBA. Myself, no. I will watch College Basketball 100 times before I watch an NBA game and I even work at an NBA arena (in addition to an NFL and MLB stadium).

My point was it doesn't matter what week you pick...this is a terminal disease...not a localized infection.

 

[TwoMisfits]

1st, they should shrink their number of channels - 1/2 the time, ESPN 2 is just reshowing ESPN talk...which is even more waste. Heck, they should probably cut down to just 2 channels...ESPN and ESPN college. ESPN college should show live college sports all day - there are 100s of them. They could spend the 1am-10am hours showing replays and fitting in a "talk/clips" show. ESPN should do the same with other sports (maybe also fitting in ONE 6-7pm clips show) - even if it means they show video game sports (huge in Asian culture and which run in the daytime - I know my brother watches them), poker, curling, soccer, MLS, gymnastics, figure skating, rugby, polo, golf, water polo, wrestling, boxing, bowling, billiards, skiing, halfpipe, motorcross, track and field, autoracing, speed skating, preseason games, etc - I could keep going on - as a kid, ESPN taught me the rules to and figures in so many sports that have now disappeared from their main network...as many have pointed out, the midday programming sucks anyway, so fill all of that in with cheap live sports - they've done it before and turned some sports popular...sports would play midday if they thought they had a prayer of getting on ESPN...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

All the major college conferences have their own networks now...so it's not just "live sports"...it's rooting for the laundry.

Eventually their will be digital offerings for specific schools...not too far offz

 

[rteetz]

All the major colleges have their own networks now...so it's not just "live sports"...it's rooting for the laundry.

Eventually their will be digital offerings for specific schools...not too far offz

Yes but most of those networks are run by another major network. SEC is run by ESPN for example. I believe BTN is run by Fox.

If I could have a specific school offering I would love that. I do like BTN though. I also don't believe the Big East has their own network which the school I go to is in.

 

[rteetz]

1st, they should shrink their number of channels - 1/2 the time, ESPN 2 is just reshowing ESPN talk...which is even more waste. Heck, they should probably cut down to just 2 channels...ESPN and ESPN college. ESPN college should show live college sports all day - there are 100s of them. They could spend the 1am-10am hours showing replays and fitting in a "talk/clips" show. ESPN should do the same with other sports (maybe also fitting in ONE 6-7pm clips show) - even if it means they show video game sports (huge in Asian culture and which run in the daytime - I know my brother watches them), poker, curling, soccer, MLS, gymnastics, figure skating, rugby, polo, golf, water polo, wrestling, boxing, bowling, billiards, skiing, halfpipe, motorcross, track and field, autoracing, speed skating, preseason games, etc - I could keep going on - as a kid, ESPN taught me the rules to and figures in so many sports that have now disappeared from their main network...as many have pointed out, the midday programming sucks anyway, so fill all of that in with cheap live sports - they've done it before and turned some sports popular...sports would play midday if they thought they had a prayer of getting on ESPN...

ESPN doesn't even use ESPN college all the time as it is now. Many days its just nothing. I remember ESPN3D when the 3D boom was big. I loved watching the MLB all-star game in 3D. That phase faded fast. ESPN2 is good during college sports seasons too though when you have multiple games on at once.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Yes but most of those networks are run by another major network. SEC is run by ESPN for example. I believe BTN is run by Fox.

If I could have a specific school offering I would love that. I do like BTN though. I also don't believe the Big East has their own network which the school I go to is in.

And that's that future for both the leagues and the networks: shared content/risk. That can go to the streaming platforms as well so it's not cable dependent.

MLB network is by far the best of the league owned channels...because it was never really "league owned"...it was a partnership with the major cable companies...shared risk/reward.

And if I do recall...about 5 years ago the big east power teams were pilfered by the major conferences and essentially dissolved it into a second tier conference...if I remember correctly...

Do you want Rutgers back?

 

[rteetz]

And that's that future for both the leagues and the networks: shared content/risk. That can go to the streaming platforms as well so it's not cable dependent.

MLB network is by far the best of the league owned channels...because it was never really "league owned"...it was a partnership with the major cable companies...shared risk/reward.

And if I do recall...about 5 years ago the big east power teams were pilfered by the major conferences and essentially dissolved it into a second tier conference...if I remember correctly...

Do you want Rutgers back?

Yeah the Big East isn't what it once was but it still has some good Schools. Even though I'm in the big east I'm partial to the big ten. Don't tell anyone at my school but Go Badgers!

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I hate the Big 1G0...
...I used to fund it

 

[Josh Hendy]

Hasn't downloadable TV/movies on demand been a great thing for both showbiz people and consumers? I'm not a heavy viewer of any kind of channel/genre but it seems to me that we're in a new golden age when you consider the number of films, series, etc. and their quality and accessibility.

Non-packaged sports, individually viewable on demand or by narrowly focused subscription will I think result in a golden age for sports. Not for the profits of network owners, team owners and elite athletes, but for the fans and perhaps for many athletes too. Because people will only be paying for what they really want, and what they want is a quality viewing experience.

Disney will be screwed if they think that pixie dust of all kinds, including massively packaged "every sport we decide to give you whether you want it or not" and massively packaged, locked-in theme park vacations "just because we're Disney" is going to fly.

 

[Tigger's ally]

Realizing that US ratings don't take into account Canadian tv and never did, correct?

You were the one that took it to a whole "why hockey ratings were tanking" not me. If you want to keep it to just ESPN, then don't bring up the fact about having Florida and Phoenix and act like that is an ESPN problem. ESPN didn't put the teams down there, not their fault at all. Thus it became a topic that wasn't just ESPN.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

You were the one that took it to a whole "why hockey ratings were tanking" not me. If you want to keep it to just ESPN, then don't bring up the fact about having Florida and Phoenix and act like that is an ESPN problem. ESPN didn't put the teams down there, not their fault at all. Thus it became a topic that wasn't just ESPN.

Did I say Florida and Phoenix was an espn problem?

Cause i didn't...the southern strategy was a bettman screw up that diluted the NHL talent pool and put teams in unsustainable markets...

You move out of Winnipeg to Phoenix...that team
Has been in near bankruptcy since day one...then you take your failing Atlanta team and move it back to Winnipeg.

There have been some decent stories...notably San Jose, Tampa bay and Nashville...but overall both the product and the league is weaker since the expansion craze...

You want to debate hockey history? Really?

I wasn't blaming espn for that...at all. They just partnered and ran a bad product to dilution...

And espn is failing...and it will definitely hurt Disneys bottom line...

These two things have intersected in the past but aren't necessarily intertwined.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Hasn't downloadable TV/movies on demand been a great thing for both showbiz people and consumers? I'm not a heavy viewer of any kind of channel/genre but it seems to me that we're in a new golden age when you consider the number of films, series, etc. and their quality and accessibility.

Non-packaged sports, individually viewable on demand or by narrowly focused subscription will I think result in a golden age for sports. Not for the profits of network owners, team owners and elite athletes, but for the fans and perhaps for many athletes too. Because people will only be paying for what they really want, and what they want is a quality viewing experience.

Disney will be screwed if they think that pixie dust of all kinds, including massively packaged "every sport we decide to give you whether you want it or not" and massively packaged, locked-in theme park vacations "just because we're Disney" is going to fly.

agreed...focused content is the way to go in the digital age.

Not 7 mandatory bundled cable channels that run half hour fantasy football shows daily in may...

That's why they should sell espn off now...to whoever wants the NBA and college contracts on the cheap...and try to partner directly with the leagues for digital platform content and distribution delivery. Offer advertising and tech support in exchange for percentages...pure profit. Less money, but little investment/risk.

And it would avoid the crisis they have now...which is operating a conglomerate off the profits generated by an obselete system: cable tv.