ESA issue

[Hikergirl]

I understand.

However, an ESA has more legal grounds in terms of housing. The allergy sufferer does not. That's where I was coming from.

Fair enough, since I'm not a lawyer I'll take your word for it.

The fair housing act does cover those with disabilities, and (severe) allergies can fall under that. I'm not so sure it's as black as white as you may think. (I just looked it up as I was curious).
It would definitely be a hard situation where both parties are "covered", someone would have to decide which one is the lesser one. IMO severe allergies that substantially limit major life activities would be the obvious one. However, certain people who need ESAs are just as impaired without them.
It would be interesting to see if a case like this has ever happened and what the outcome was.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Fair enough, since I'm not a lawyer I'll take your word for it.

I'm not either . I was looking at it from the standpoint that ESAs really only have the protection when it comes to housing but I totally get where you're thinking

 

[mnrose]

As between the ADA and the FHA for an ESA (enough acronyms for you? LOL), the law would come down against the person who "came second" if you will. Using the OP's fact situation, where the four roommates have lived together, one can presume, since the beginning of the academic year, and NOW one of the four creates a conflict between one of the roommates ADA allergy, and her ESA, I believe the court would say "ESA person....you created the problem by ADDING your animal, you are the one who must move" vs. the roommate who has the allergy all along and it wasn't an issue. On the other hand, I think if a person with an allergy was to JOIN a household where an animal was already present, s/he would have no basis for insisting that the animal go. Courts will apply common sense to these situations. Now, I realize that this is a purely hypothetical situation as OP has not mentioned any allergy concerns. But, she is absolutely correct to be concerned about her daughter potentially being on the hook financially for damages caused by that animal. It's grossly unfair. If the roommate absolutely insists on bringing that dog in, she absolutely should sign any contract making her bear sole financial responsibility for damages caused by that dog. Her unwillingness to do so would be very telling, and would be reason if I were OP to move her daughter elsewhere. Yes, she might have to pay the lease out she's currently in, but I'd view that as a small price to pay to potentially be out of way larger damages caused by that animal. Animals can quickly, QUICKLY, do thousands of dollars in damages to a rental unit (as a landlord, I have sad experience with tenants who've ignored my no pets rule and brought them in anyway causing huge damages that I've paid to fix) At least in my daughter's college town there are ample subleases available for the second semester, always.

 

[Hikergirl]

@mnrose that all sounds very reasonable.

OP, is the roommate unwilling to take 100% responsibility for any damage? I'm not sure if I missed what you said regarding that.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

the law would come down against the person who "came second" if you will. Using the OP's fact situation, where the four roommates have lived together, one can presume, since the beginning of the academic year, and NOW one of the four creates a conflict between one of the roommates ADA allergy, and her ESA, I believe the court would say "ESA person....you created the problem by ADDING your animal, you are the one who must move" vs. the roommate who has the allergy all along and it wasn't an issue. On the other hand, I think if a person with an allergy was to JOIN a household where an animal was already present, s/he would have no basis for insisting that the animal go. Courts will apply common sense to these situations.

These are good points but I would wonder too what would happen if you had someone who developed allergies or developed the need for an ESA over time.

Things aren't just known at leasing signing. It could take a person living with the ESA in question in order to know if they have reactions to them.

I'd like to hope that courts would apply common sense but I can also see extremely sticky situations. In a perfect world whichever one 'lost' would be cool with moving, would be able to move within the same complex/community and everything be peachy keen. But if they cannot it can make someone fight even harder.

But we've had these types of 'what if' conversations on the Boards in general including when you have two people who have needs, such as an allergy sufferer and a SA. We, at least on the Boards, tend to be much more towards personal responsibility when it comes to allergies (like plane situations and whatnot) and it usually goes the way that the allergy sufferer needs to do what they need to do to avoid as much as possible the situation. Would the courts feel the same would greatly I'm sure depend on where you're at as not all of our 'peers' think the same.

 

[fhtpdw20]

The only other option that I could think of is to start documenting. Pictures to show condition of apt before dog and each time dog does damage. I would think if this is a true ESA, the animal would be spending most of the time with the owner and not cooped up in the apt. I would also look for evidence on social media to prove or disprove if this is a true therapy device and not a pet. If she orders a vest online, keep the address label and research place of purchase. The other roommates may be on the hook for damage, but there is nothing to stop them from using this documentation to take her to small claims court to recoup the lost fees for an animal admitted after they signed the lease stating no pets. They are paying tenants and have just as much right to complain to property management of noise as anyone else. I would not hesitate to call animal control if the animal is neglected either. Now is the time to start looking for new living arrangements so when this lease is up, the owner is on her own.

 

[Searc]

As between the ADA and the FHA for an ESA (enough acronyms for you? LOL), the law would come down against the person who "came second" if you will. Using the OP's fact situation, where the four roommates have lived together, one can presume, since the beginning of the academic year, and NOW one of the four creates a conflict between one of the roommates ADA allergy, and her ESA, I believe the court would say "ESA person....you created the problem by ADDING your animal, you are the one who must move" vs. the roommate who has the allergy all along and it wasn't an issue. On the other hand, I think if a person with an allergy was to JOIN a household where an animal was already present, s/he would have no basis for insisting that the animal go. Courts will apply common sense to these situations. Now, I realize that this is a purely hypothetical situation as OP has not mentioned any allergy concerns. But, she is absolutely correct to be concerned about her daughter potentially being on the hook financially for damages caused by that animal. It's grossly unfair. If the roommate absolutely insists on bringing that dog in, she absolutely should sign any contract making her bear sole financial responsibility for damages caused by that dog. Her unwillingness to do so would be very telling, and would be reason if I were OP to move her daughter elsewhere. Yes, she might have to pay the lease out she's currently in, but I'd view that as a small price to pay to potentially be out of way larger damages caused by that animal. Animals can quickly, QUICKLY, do thousands of dollars in damages to a rental unit (as a landlord, I have sad experience with tenants who've ignored my no pets rule and brought them in anyway causing huge damages that I've paid to fix) At least in my daughter's college town there are ample subleases available for the second semester, always.

Most colleges offer a December graduation, so yes, there are ample opportunities to move mid-year.

 

[kaytieeldr]

But we're not talking about the ADA. The ADA doesn't factor into this. We're talking about FHA.

But wouldn't the ADA take precedence over the FHA? Or even the ACAA, for that matter?

 

[jsmith]

DD should recommend to the roommate to get a FURminator brush! it is literally a miracle brush/comb. There are YouTube videos on this of how it takes off shedding hair. Some dogs look like sheep being sheared, so much hair is coming off. But, it's just the shedding hair. The brush doesn't pull out excess hair. It's a bit expensive, but so worth it.

Not really relevant to the topic of this thread but this is not true. Furminator has a blade in it that cuts guard hairs so it LOOKS like you are removing a lot of shedding hair. also will ruin a dogs coat over time. Husky will still need to be groomed daily with a good undercoat rake to control shedding.

 

[gotomu212]

But wouldn't the ADA take precedence over the FHA? Or even the ACAA, for that matter?

The ADA doesn’t come into play here. The landlord must supply an ADA compliant structure, but Individuals inside that structure do not need to personally comply with ADA (ie I can discriminate against my roommate all I want by cooking with peanut butter and burning candles that aggravates her allergies). Roommate with a dog is not responsible for meeting ADA requirements.

The landlord is responsible for compliance with FHA in that once asked for an ESA the Landlords have to allow one (Whether the other tenants agree is a private matter between them).

Like so many problems with shared roommates in your 20s the answer is usually be very careful who you agree to live with, and if it becomes unmanageable you’ll need to figure out how to break your lease.

 

[sam_gordon]

The only other option that I could think of is to start documenting. Pictures to show condition of apt before dog and each time dog does damage. I would think if this is a true ESA, the animal would be spending most of the time with the owner and not cooped up in the apt. I would also look for evidence on social media to prove or disprove if this is a true therapy device and not a pet. If she orders a vest online, keep the address label and research place of purchase. The other roommates may be on the hook for damage, but there is nothing to stop them from using this documentation to take her to small claims court to recoup the lost fees for an animal admitted after they signed the lease stating no pets. They are paying tenants and have just as much right to complain to property management of noise as anyone else. I would not hesitate to call animal control if the animal is neglected either. Now is the time to start looking for new living arrangements so when this lease is up, the owner is on her own.

The ESA I would think would determine whether the animal needs to be with the owner 24/7, or just available.

I've been hesitant to post in this thread. My DD got an ESA two years ago (as a Sophomore in college, staying in a dorm). Despite DW & my suggestions, she got a "medium" sized dog. The ESA meant the college had to allow the dog in the dorm, despite a "no pets" rule. The dog does not go with her to class or to work. Stop referring to an ESA as a "pet". It's incorrect and muddies the waters.

Fast forward to now. DD is getting ready to move into her own apartment. The apartment owners want a copy of the ESA, AND they said they will contact the doctor to confirm. A vest means nothing. So I don't know why you would research the place of purchase. I bet I could find 20 on Amazon right now.

I do agree with looking for what it would take to break the lease, and if you're not willing to pay that, deal with it for the next five months.

All the talk about having the ESA owner sign a contract saying they'll take care of any damage... what if she won't sign? Plan for the worst and hope for the best.

 

[kaytieeldr]

A vest means nothing. So I don't know why you would research the place of purchase. I bet I could find 20 on Amazon right now.

At least three dozen just in this first page, https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Esa+vest&ref=nb_sb_noss_2, plus multiple tags and patches.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

At least three dozen just in this first page, https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Esa+vest&ref=nb_sb_noss_2, plus multiple tags and patches.

To be fair you can do that with service animals too. Unfortunate side effect if you will.

A vest is commonly thought to be required for a SA let alone a ESA but they are not so either way they don't really tell anyone anything. A person who has an SA for instance though may use a vest to denote the specific disability such as "seeing eye dog" or whatnot or to notate something such as "don't pet, or ask before petting", etc.

 

[kaytieeldr]

To be fair you can do that with service animals too. Unfortunate side effect if you will

Oh, absolutely. Challenge accepted https://www.amazon.com/s?k=service+...fix=Service++vest,aps,176&ref=nb_sb_ss_i_3_12 I stopped counting at 37, and ignored the tactical vests and tags/patches.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

The ESA I would think would determine whether the animal needs to be with the owner 24/7, or just available.

I've been hesitant to post in this thread. My DD got an ESA two years ago (as a Sophomore in college, staying in a dorm). Despite DW & my suggestions, she got a "medium" sized dog. The ESA meant the college had to allow the dog in the dorm, despite a "no pets" rule. The dog does not go with her to class or to work. Stop referring to an ESA as a "pet". It's incorrect and muddies the waters.

Fast forward to now. DD is getting ready to move into her own apartment. The apartment owners want a copy of the ESA, AND they said they will contact the doctor to confirm. A vest means nothing. So I don't know why you would research the place of purchase. I bet I could find 20 on Amazon right now.

I do agree with looking for what it would take to break the lease, and if you're not willing to pay that, deal with it for the next five months.

All the talk about having the ESA owner sign a contract saying they'll take care of any damage... what if she won't sign? Plan for the worst and hope for the best.

Since you shared, how did it go for her? Is she doing better with the dog? How is the dog doing and what type is it?

 

[sam_gordon]

Since you shared, how did it go for her? Is she doing better with the dog? How is the dog doing and what type is it?

She says the dog has helped.
It's some kind of pitbull-black lab mix (more black lab).
The dog does seem to be doing ok.

DW and I have discovered we are not dog people. I never had pets growing up. We've had cats (first two were individual, the current ones (two) we got at the same time) for most of the last 27 years.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

She says the dog has helped.
It's some kind of pitbull-black lab mix (more black lab).
The dog does seem to be doing ok.

DW and I have discovered we are not dog people. I never had pets growing up. We've had cats (first two were individual, the current ones (two) we got at the same time) for most of the last 27 years.

I’m glad for both things. It being a pit bull type must’ve rustled a few feathers!

DS lived in apt w five others and one of their girlfriends used to bring a dog over and there were other groups in the same place that had them. Idk if they were ESAs or any further details. I was also surprised to see two puppies among his teammates the summer he played college ball out of state and was living in pet friendly dorms, but they seemed to be well cared for. Those were likely pets, but I could understand it was lonely for some of them being far from home and away from friends and family during their time off from school.

 

[lil mermaid]

Interesting article that I found online. https://roommateexpert.com/roommate-emotional-support-dog/

There is a process that the roommate needs to follow. Has she done this? There are also several exclusions to the Fair Housing Act that are linked within the article

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Interesting article that I found online. https://roommateexpert.com/roommate-emotional-support-dog/

There is a process that the roommate needs to follow. Has she done this? There are also several exclusions to the Fair Housing Act that are linked within the article

There's def. good information in your link but there's also stuff that is just passive aggressive things.

Like "Try to get hold of your roommate’s ESA letter saying they need to have an emotional support dog ESA at home" and "Your roommate may not want to let you see the letter, especially if it is fake. So try not to be aggressive in the way you ask, so they don’t feel there is a downside to showing it to you. Say in a nice way that you would like to see it for your peace of mind." And other things. You don't need to show proof to your roommate your disability like that. In respects to validity it's the information the person would need to show to the landlord and the landlord alone.

"How to stop a roommate having an emotional support dog ESA if you don’t want one around" I realize that we all know there are fake ones out there but if the person truly needs one it's kinda awful to approach the situation in the way.

 

[Imzadi]

Not really relevant to the topic of this thread but this is not true. Furminator has a blade in it that cuts guard hairs so it LOOKS like you are removing a lot of shedding hair. also will ruin a dogs coat over time. Husky will still need to be groomed daily with a good undercoat rake to control shedding.

It is relevant if the OP's DD ends up rooming with the dog. But, you've been misinformed. The FURminator IS an undercoat rake. It is a comb with very narrow spaces in between the teeth to help remove shedding hair. It does NOT cut hairs. It is shaped like a "blade" so people have a misconception that it is a cutting blade. But, it has no cutting blade.

Snipping off the Amazon page when I input "blade" in the questions search box. I didn't even have to put "husky" in. Several people already asked. Here's one that answers both by a FURminator manufacturing rep:

Q: What length blade for a husky​

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A: Thanks for asking! The deShedding tool is not a blade so it will not cut or damage a dogs top coat when used as directed. For most Husky dogs we suggest the large, long hair deShedding tool. Need more help? Contact FURminator at PetSupport@spectrumbrands.com or call 1-800-645-5154.​

By Manufacturing Representative on April 15, 2019​

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