Epcot is sad

[Marilou]

All I can say is ......wow!
I read up thru page 4 and I'm kinda baffled at the OP
Oh and I will say from my own standpoint, at age 43 as a single mom with one child in college and another one starting college soon, I'm grateful that I can scrape up enough money to go to WDW as a family.

The WS is the only opportunity I will ever have to experience these cultures even if it is on a theme park level. I know its a "cliff-notes" version but its still wonderful to experience.

Our next trip has 3-4 days that we will make an appearance on Epcot property.

 

[Damien2213]

Apparently Maelstrom had at least one of them escape....LOL!

 

[Violet Parr]

Authentic drug trafficking and gang violence.

Not cool.

As an 6th-generation American of Mexican decent who has been to Epcot a bazillion times, I had never seen mariachis until our recent December trip. EVERY trip, I always mention to my husband that it seems so unauthentic for them to NOT have mariachis. While not everyone who is Mexican loves mariachis, they are an authentic part of the culture.

VP

 

[rt2dz]

Of course my visit is going to be affected by "pre-conceived" notions! Am I supposed to forget that EPCOT was awesome? Should I just accept the fact that I'm spending more for less?

Isn't this Disney's new motto?:

Spend More For Less! Experiences Declined and Prices Inclined!

 

[Violet Parr]

I completely agree with you. It's a theme park. Frankly, anyone who looks at it as an authentic, cultural experience needs to take a long hard look at their own expectations.

However, at the same time, it still makes me vaguely uncomfortable that it equates 'cultural immersion' with 'theme park'. There's just something that I find vaguely unsettling about the concept. And I hardly think someone raising these issues should be outright dismissed as just a trouble maker or pot stirrer. In a world where there is an unspeakably racist and divisive NFL team name as well as something an entire campaign around halloween of 'I am a culture, not a costume' I don't think these are issues that are entirely out of line to actually examine instead of just sticking heads in the sane and say 'oh, it's just a theme park'. The issue isn't whether there ARE mariachi bands in Mexico - because anyone with two brain cells can say yes and that's a ridiculous argument to make - I think the issue is probably is it ethical to reduce a culture to being just one thing.

This is probably going pretty far off the rails, I just think it's important to actually think about things rather than ignore them and having a conversation about it shouldn't have to be so contentious. There's nothing wrong with liking it - it's fun! I dream about those ham and cheese croissants they're so good! But a summary dismissal of anyone who might have some questions about the execution is unfair.

As a gal of Mexican descent, I appreciate your concern that Mexico not be represented by blythe misappropriation, but I think you are missing the mark here. Mariachis are a huge part of Mexican and Mexican-American culture. We're proud of them. I'm telling you, every. single. trip, I complain to my husband that the Mexico Pavilion lacks authenticity without mariachis playing. I was THRILLED to see them last month.

I think there is something to be said for those not of a certain culture who feel the need to defend that culture. You're right. Cultural appropriation is something to be cautious of, but at the same time, I think there is an assumption that those of other cultures don't want to share. My daughter LOVES Japanese culture, and one year, she spend hours with the girls in Mitsukoshi. They selected a kimono for her and talked about their culture and they were thrilled and thankful for her interest. In October we went back and she wore her kimono. The "Culture not a costume" campaign was going strong at the time, and I was concerned she would offend. Nope. Every Japanese tourist we saw walked up to her and thanked her for wearing it and she made a lot of new friends. She visited the girls in the kimono shop in Mitsukoshi and while they were all new, they were really excited and told her they were so thrilled that she is so interested in Japan.

If I saw someone of non-Mexican descent wearing a sarape or other traditional Mexican clothing, I wouldn't be offended, provided it wasn't an obvious cheap, offensive costume. I think it is more than okay for people to find other cultures interesting.

Anyway, no, you can reduce Mexico to mariachis, but to exclude margaritas and a mariachi band would also be silly.

VP

 

[Violet Parr]

Hmm. Rethinking my last post in response to Jillian. it occurred to me that while I love the Mexico pavilion and I feel it is a nice sampling of our colorful culture, I always feel badly when in the France pavilion. I always feel guilty that the DCP French students there have to sell berets and macarons and Eiffel tower trinkets because their culture is so much more than that. I don't feel that way in the Mexico pavilion. There is a market downtown in the city where I was born that is a LOT like the Mexico pavilion. Hmm. Something to think about.

VP

 

[Sweettears]

Is this a serious question? Do you think that Mexican Culture is limited to what you can find at a Taco Bell in Omaha?

China has several provinces each with a unique cultural identity

I've never seen any live entertainment at any Taco Bell let alone a Mariachi Band.

 

[crazyventures]

As someone who spends around half the year a mere 15 miles from Tijuana, I don't find mariachis offensive at all. There are a lot worse stereotypes that could be portrayed.

I think it's also worth noting that Mexico has over 100 million residents, 31 states, and many different ethnic groups...of course an Epcot pavilion wouldn't fully encapsulate all of Mexican culture. The same could be said for any country.

 

[Canooknic]

I'm from Canada as well and enjoy our pavilion. I do however think they could do without Off Kilter wearing all that plaid. lol. Also, don't shoot me *hiding behind my couch*, they could get rid of some of the Toronto Maple Leaf paraphernalia.

I moved from Canada to England when I was 9 so every Epcot trip meant a beeline to 'Canada' for the maple cream cookies. Now I've moved back to Canada and as soon as I get to Epcot next month I'll be heading straight to the UK for chips!!!!!!
It might be a bit cheesy, but I love WS for exactly that reason!!

 

[grossmansr]

Would love to see some new countries represented though, like Austria or Hungary or one of the Slavic countries, or even Russia or Australia and New Zealand and all that their cultures offer!!

This. Epcot needs more countries. How can they leave out India? Or Russia and Australia for that matter? I love Epcot but I do think it's a bit sad that some very big countries are altogether left out.

And Future world needs a whole lot more to remain on the cutting edge of technology and entertainment. Journey into imagination is a bit sad, no?

Epcot used to be my favorite park and I still enjoy it, but a lot more Imagineering effort needs to be put into it to keep it relevant.

 

[HorizonsRIP]

To the op if you don't like Epcot then don't go. Shorter lines for the rest of us who aren't so easily offended....what a joke...get over yourself.

Great contribution to the thread.

 

[Magpie]

Hmm. Rethinking my last post in response to Jillian. it occurred to me that while I love the Mexico pavilion and I feel it is a nice sampling of our colorful culture, I always feel badly when in the France pavilion. I always feel guilty that the DCP French students there have to sell berets and macarons and Eiffel tower trinkets because their culture is so much more than that. I don't feel that way in the Mexico pavilion. There is a market downtown in the city where I was born that is a LOT like the Mexico pavilion. Hmm. Something to think about.

VP

My daughter has been to France, and says the Eiffel tower trinkets are not a misrepresentation. You can't get within ten blocks of the tower without being surrounded by people on blankets hawking tacky Eiffel tower trinkets. She bought three!

 

[Huff]

When you go on a cruise and never explore beyond the immediate area of the ports of call you'll see about the same things found in World Showcase in my opinion. The tourist elements that are far removed from being representative of what that country is truly about. That said, sometimes the tourist stuff is fun! I like World Showcase but I do feel it could be better.

 

[Planogirl]

HorizonsRIP, I agree with you when it comes to Future World. What a silly name for a mostly outdated, bleak area. There are some nice spots but so much of it is nothing like the original concept which IMO was pretty neat.

As for World Showcase, I don't agree with that. There are mariachi bands in Mexico. Could they do more? Of course but there is limited space and Disney has to appeal to those stereotypical ideas that people have. Or at least they seem to think that. China is actually quite nice. The buildings speak to the history and the museum is interesting.

Some say that World Showcase should be updated. How? Many of these nations change very little in many ways. Again, I imagine that a lack of space will always keep what we see pretty limited.

 

[Bullseye]

Mariachis are representative of Mexico...not a stereotype...Speedy Gonzalez and the Frito Bandito are stereotypes.

WS is my favorite place in WDW. Lots of food and drink, people hanging out having fun!

 

[AThrillingChase]

I see WS as a celebration of cultural history of these countries, not how they are currently, which sounds like the disconnect here. I have been to quite a few of those countries represented and none of the pavillions seem offensive to me. The temple of heaven is there, so are fish shops, pagodas etc.

But then, I am American and the fife and drum corps do not offend me. Going to old forts, re enactments, and historical sites doesn't either.

 

[kapoof]

Great contribution to the thread.

Anytime...awesome thread starter. Btw.

 

[DisneyDetective]

EPCOT is by far my favourite theme park out them all at Walt Disney World. I do feel the park needs a huge injection of funds to revitalize it but keep it true to the spirit of Walt Disney. Some of the pavilions are poorly dated like Imagination, they need to decide when they are going to refurbish the old Odyssey counter service restaurant and what it will become and just a general update.
In regard to the World Showcase being offensive, i'm Scottish and not offended by the 'typical' stereotypes found at the UK pavilion.

 

[Angie789]

Your response applies to someone who has expectations that are based on previous visits. Someone who has expectations of how the park should be operated will be "sad" because EPCOT doesn't fit their own pre-conceived ideas.

A new visitor to EPCOT will see Soarin' as a feeling to experience free flight, JII as a demonstration of how anyone can apply themselves, Nemo as a fun introduction to an exhibit on oceanography, Mission Space as an opportunity to experience what future space travellers will experience and Test Track as an exhibit on what is done to improve auto safety. Optimism.

Well, my DH was a brand new visitor to Epcot a couple of weeks ago (and I hadn't been in 20 years), and his response to Future World was call it a "lame Jetson's theme park." I know the vast majority of DIS board members are extreme in their Disney love, but I honestly think you have to be wearing some serious Disney goggles to see Future World as a place of optimism. The lack of care and attention this part of the parks has received is quite obvious, even to a first time visitor.

While I don't agree with the OP that WS is offensive, he is exactly correct in calling the China pavilion "Forbidden City" architecture. The outbuildings around the Temple of Heaven are designed to look like the Forbidden City. And, both the Temple of Heaven and the Forbidden City were designed by the same emperor as part of a cohesive whole - Temple of Heaven for worship and Forbidden City for government. They are located just a small distance from each other in Beijing and absolutely represent the same architectural style.

 

[Magpie]

Well, my DH was a brand new visitor to Epcot a couple of weeks ago (and I hadn't been in 20 years), and his response to Future World was call it a "lame Jetson's theme park." I know the vast majority of DIS board members are extreme in their Disney love, but I honestly think you have to be wearing some serious Disney goggles to see Future World as a place of optimism. The lack of care and attention this part of the parks has received is quite obvious, even to a first time visitor.

While I don't agree with the OP that WS is offensive, he is exactly correct in calling the China pavilion "Forbidden City" architecture. The outbuildings around the Temple of Heaven are designed to look like the Forbidden City. And, both the Temple of Heaven and the Forbidden City were designed by the same emperor as part of a cohesive whole - Temple of Heaven for worship and Forbidden City for government. They are located just a small distance from each other in Beijing and absolutely represent the same architectural style.

True enough, but it's obvious the OP wasn't talking about architectural styles. He was generalizing about what he thought he saw, the same way he assumed mariachi bands were offensive stereotypes, rather than a beloved and popular cultural icon. And it's still amusing that in trying to protest offensive stereotyping the OP revealed a complete ignorance of everything he was looking at and listening to. He was more guilty of stereotyping than the host countries!

Maybe he should have stopped and actually explored some of the countries' pavilions. He might have learned something!