Epcot, AK and DHS have been slow all summer?

[pilferk]

Because the sitdowns hold a couple of thousand people per meal period...but the park holds far more.

Obviously there will be fewer spots on days with high volume...but you can't take that at face value at all times.

In dining promotions...often you will have very limited restaurant availability... But during the overall slowest times of the year... Hence the promotion.

I just caution things like fast pass distribution and restaurant tables as being the burden of proof. Sometimes that is safe... Sometimes not.

To offer an example of the above:
During some of the slower time periods of the year, disney offers "free" dining. During that time frame, the parks are certainly less busy than they are during summer, Christmas, and Easter break. But the restaurants are jam packed, and adrs are tough to come by inside 60 days.

That isn't indicative of park business, it's indicative I'd disney's promotional success.

Contrary, during busier times, when folks are not only paying a premium for dining (either in increased costs for the plan or via premium out of pocket pricing at the restaurants)...the level of business may very well be about pricing the people who are onsight out of the sit downs.

 

[kikiV]

Even the value resorts can cost close to $1000 for a family of four to stay for a week's vacation. Add to that the cost of park tickets and food, Disney is really putting itself out of reach for a lot of middle class families.

You are right about this however we were there end of July and it was the busiest I have seen it in the 19 trips I have taken!!!!

 

[Objectivity]

2000-2003...

I did 18 hours on 9/11 to "attempt to calm the guest"...
Still embarrassed to this day at some of the behavior I saw.

Behavior by staff or behavior by guests? Any examples to share?

 

[amberpi]

I was there the last week in June and middle of August and all parks were busy by mid day and pretty empty for RD Epcot was exceptionally busy.

 

[mcd2745]

Because the sitdowns hold a couple of thousand people per meal period...but the park holds far more.

Obviously there will be fewer spots on days with high volume...but you can't take that at face value at all times.

In dining promotions...often you will have very limited restaurant availability... But during the overall slowest times of the year... Hence the promotion.

I just caution things like fast pass distribution and restaurant tables as being the burden of proof. Sometimes that is safe... Sometimes not.

Reminds me of when we went the last week of August a few years ago. It was a "free dining" period. We actually took advantage of that promotion.

Overall, the parks were empty. We literally walked on to Soarin' in the middle of the afternoon. No exaggeration. We didn't wait more than 10 minutes for a single ride all week (TSMM had a longer wait, of course, but it went down early in the day we were at DHS and never got running again the rest of the day, so we never got on the line).

That said, you couldn't get a dinner ADR anywhere other than places like Marakkesh and remote resort places like Shutters or Olivia's the entire week. Every other restaurant were completely booked.

If someone were judging by ADR availability, they would have thought that overall it was one of the busiest weeks of the year. While in reality, it was probably one of the slowest.

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

You are right about this however we were there end of July and it was the busiest I have seen it in the 19 trips I have taken!!!!

Was the WL resort busy or seem full this past July?

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

After all of the responses to this thread, what I come away with is that Universal Orlando is becoming as much as a "destination resort" as Disney. Families are staying off-site or at the Universal Resorts and only bothering to visit the Magic Kingdom.

Epcot...DHS...AK...are just not something families are willing to pay for anymore.

Sad, but true.

 

[beer dave]

After all of the responses to this thread, what I come away with is that Universal Orlando is becoming as much as a "destination resort" as Disney. Families are staying off-site or at the Universal Resorts and only bothering to visit the Magic Kingdom.

Epcot...DHS...AK...are just not something families are willing to pay for anymore.

Sad, but true.

I think Disney's accountants would disagree.

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

I think Disney's accountants would disagree.

beerdave...could you explain what you mean?

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

I mean...seriously...the only park at WDW that is crowded and "happening" is the Magic Kingdom. The other three parks are becoming ossified. Universal is absolutely exploding.

Epcot seems like it's downright abandoned.

Another poster stated it quite well...it's a short period of time before Universal beats Epcot/DHS/AK's attendance numbers.

How could that NOT be with Comcast pumping hundreds of milions of dollars into making their parks fresh and new?

 

[beer dave]

beerdave...could you explain what you mean?

I don't keep track of disneys earnings, but I think they are still making money hand over fist, and although we all complain here ( and with good reason) about no improvements and such, people have not stopped going to these parks.

Also I couldn't imagine anyone spending a 7 day vacation at universal, let alone the 2 weekers from overseas. Universal is definitely moving up at a rapid rate, but they are still eons behind on being a week long destination resort.

I have no statistics to back this up. It is just my opinion.

 

[davedmaine]

That may be part of the problem...but how do you explain Universal doing gangbuster business in it's parks, hotels and restaurants? They are equally expensive.

Universal has the 'cool' factor and Disney has the 'classic' factor. Universal does Harry Potter and Disney does a Fantasy Land expansion. It's easy to see why Uni's market share is growing at such an exponential rate and Disney is stagnant (except when its brings in the unwashed masses with free dining)

 

[Minniesgal]

After all of the responses to this thread, what I come away with is that Universal Orlando is becoming as much as a "destination resort" as Disney. Families are staying off-site or at the Universal Resorts and only bothering to visit the Magic Kingdom. Epcot...DHS...AK...are just not something families are willing to pay for anymore. Sad, but true.

I think that's what you think but the comments in this thread don't always back you up.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I think Disney's accountants would disagree.

And so does the math...

this is back to the same old "watch out...universal is coming right up on their heels from behind"

Thats good news and bad news:
The good news is that would be fantastic for disney fans...because it is one of the only sure fire ways you can be guaranteed a response...in construction that is
The bad news is its not happening and logistically isn't ever likely too. That's the land issue. Uncle Walt new what to do...which was buy a whole county...and whoever built studios (GE...maybe?) landlocked themselves to try to get "closer to the action"

if there was ever a plan to turn universal into "mega resort"...they put it in the wrong spot. It should have been put south east of OIA towards cocoa...where land was plentiful and thereby making the consumer make a choice: which way you going off boggy creek? left or right? us or them?

But they couldnt do that because they...like sea world...would never have survived without the sieve off the big dog.

And like feudal lords...they look impressive in their castles...but ultimately don't really own their own land and will have to pay tribute to the king for their whole lives...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Universal has the 'cool' factor and Disney has the 'classic' factor. Universal does Harry Potter and Disney does a Fantasy Land expansion. It's easy to see why Uni's market share is growing at such an exponential rate and Disney is stagnant (except when its brings in the unwashed masses with free dining)

i like your take....but disagree with one part.

universal has regained lost attendance and increased...no question...while disney "limps" along.

But that has been disney's choice. Disney is like secretariat...my opinion. you're not gonna catch him on the back stretch. It's just - again - raw size and potential...which is an insurmountable lead.

Now...universal can go up...and disney can lose a little...no question.

But its still like 24-10 at the end of the third quarter with a dominant defense. go ahead...waste your energy.

 

[Robbi]

I think OnSpaceShip Earth is correct as far as Universal becoming a destination resort. After our first stay in 2004, we were hooked. I'm friends with a bunch of women from the DIS off the board and all but one of them has taken a few trips with their families expressly to stay at Universal. We have taken side trips to Disney. Last year my daughter, her friend, and I flew in for 4 nights and especially for Halloween Horror Nights. One night we went to MNSSHP but that was it for WDW.

Universal will never beat Disney in numbers. Disney has 4 huge parks and a bazillion hotel roooms. Uni has beaten it though in terms of technology used in it's attractions- oh and the special effects actually work on their rides. It also has it beat when it comes to onsite resorts. The rooms are very nice, the staffs are superb, the restaurants top notch, and the ability to walk to the parks cannot be beat.

 

[Planogirl]

We are also hooked on Universal and our solution is to visit both! We can easily spend 4-5 days at Universal and do 6 or 7 more at WDW. I like having this variety even if it costs more.

I only wish that Disney would take the reins and start building new things. They are capable of great things of course but seem reluctant to do much nowadays. (FP+ notwithstanding since the jury is still out on whether this is such a great thing.)

 

[Robbi]

We are also hooked on Universal and our solution is to visit both! We can easily spend 4-5 days at Universal and do a 6 or 7 more at WDW. I like having this variety even if it costs more.

I only wish that Disney would take the reins and start building new things. They are capable of great things of course but seem reluctant to do much nowadays. (FP+ notwithstanding since the jury is still out on whether this is such a great thing.)

Amen
Most of us were so excited about the Fantasyland expansion and it's a dud. It's pretty but the Little Mermaid ride-really? All the anticipation for a The Seas with Nemo & Friends remake. It's beyond lame. Hopefully the Mine coaster will add a little something to the area. It seems that either Disney has lost its vision or they plain just don't care. They're satisfied with the status quo which is sad because Disney used to be innovative.

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

Universal will never beat Disney in numbers. Disney has 4 huge parks and a bazillion hotel roooms. "


Yes...but that's also a lot of upkeep and cost for Disney. Having a lot more hotels that are more than half-empty(Disney) or having just a few that are fully booked year-round(Universal).

Which is a healthier state to be in?

The same applies to the parks. Disney has four parks...only ONE is consistently busy. The other three struggle and are almost never near capacity(except for special events). Universal has two parks. IOA is almost always busy and near or at capacity many times of the year. The Studios are also doing a very brisk business since IOA has exploded with Harry Potter.

 

[Robbi]

Universal will never beat Disney in numbers. Disney has 4 huge parks and a bazillion hotel roooms. "


Yes...but that's also a lot of upkeep and cost for Disney. Having a lot more hotels that are more than half-empty(Disney) or having just a few that are fully booked year-round(Universal).

Which is a healthier state to be in?

The same applies to the parks. Disney has four parks...only ONE is consistently busy. The other three struggle and are almost never near capacity(except for special events). Universal has two parks. IOA is almost always busy and near or at capacity many times of the year. The Studios are also doing a very brisk business since IOA has exploded with Harry Potter.

I agree with you.