Epcot, AK and DHS have been slow all summer?

[lockedoutlogic]

Anyone else that has been to WDW within the last few weeks that has anything to share about how busy any of the parks(especially the three non-MK parks), resorts, resort restaurants and/or table service restaurants in the parks were?

It would be great to hear from you!

The more the discussion goes on...the more there is a fundamental problem with it...

The only thing that can prove this thing are current and historical raw numbers...and we can't get our hands on them. There is an annual figure posted...but really you almost need month to month.

Our "indicators" are things like the line for soarin, the time fastpass runs out at you story mania, and whether there are reservations available at EPCOT...

None of those things measure the overall "crowds"...and generally speaking "really busy" means nothing

I would submit that wdw hasn't been "moderately busy" Since the bubble years...and hasn't been "crowded" since 99-00.

Just a thought

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

The more the discussion goes on...the more there is a fundamental problem with it...

The only thing that can prove this thing are current and historical raw numbers...and we can't get our hands on them. There is an annual figure posted...but really you almost need month to month.

Our "indicators" are things like the line for soarin, the time fastpass runs out at you story mania, and whether there are reservations available at EPCOT...

None of those things measure the overall "crowds"...and generally speaking "really busy" means nothing

I would submit that wdw hasn't been "moderately busy" Since the bubble years...and hasn't been "crowded" since 99-00.

Just a thought

"Whether there are reservations available at EPCOT" is a great indicator.

Wow...you don't think WDW has even been "moderately busy" since 2008?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

"Whether there are reservations available at EPCOT" is a great indicator.

Not at all... In fact it could mean the opposite. The sit down restaurants hold a fraction of the parks attendance... And I've personally seen times where the sign at the front said they were all booked and the paths around the park are like a ghost town.

That is a terrible day of business.

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

Not at all... In fact it could mean the opposite. The sit down restaurants hold a fraction of the parks attendance... And I've personally seen times where the sign at the front said they were all booked and the paths around the park are like a ghost town.

That is a terrible day of business.

Lockedoutlogic...please explain that to me. I can't get my head around it. Is it because of a malfunctioning ADR system?

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

Plus...could you elaborate a bit more on your statement that WDW hasn't even been "moderately busy since the bubble years"?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Wow...you don't think WDW has even been "moderately busy" since 2008?

Not if you look at what the parks can... And in the case of MK and EPCOT...used to hold.

I have to laugh when people talk about how "packed" the parks are while I'm there...and wonder what they're basing it on.

The magic kingdom used to be packed for the entire summer and the peak periods at a much higher level than you would see now. Jammed everywhere... You just aren't likely to see that now. The parks rarely if ever get to capacity... Maybe the three or four prime days a year.

What they do benefit from now is that they had some absolutely dead months that they've pulled some of the business into...notable fall and winter and the early summer period...

So there attendance increases ( but not nearly at the rate they want...often statistical null)...but the crowds seem to be actually thinning out in the aggregate over the calendar.

They can safely fit about double the amount of people in the big parks on the "slammed" days you read about here.
And what would that look like? Wall to wall people and two hour waits...which was wdw 71-92 ish and 96-01 ish...

We're a little spoiled...my opinion. Things like off season festivals, new parks, and fastpass have actually benefitted crowd levels alot...and is actually a credit to Disney.

People often speculate when they'll build another park. The current answer is "never"... Cause they don't have enough butts in the ones they have now for the balance sheet.

But they're working on it... Streamlined "pre-planned" amusement park days and radio tracking is going to attempt to be used
To pack them in...and reduce cost at the same time. That is the point. And giftshop sales, of course.

 

[AddiesDad]

We were there the 2nd week of May for 7 days. The 3 days we were at MK it was jam packed. We were at Epcot for only 1/2 a day, but Soarin' FP's were gone by 11am. AK, I'd say was moderately crowded. Most lines were about 20-40 min, while the safari was consistently 40-60min. DHS was pretty crowded. Star Tours was a 50min wait at 1pm. We even had to wait for 10min for our ADR at lunch before we were seated.

Not much in the way of actual numbers, so take it for what it's worth.

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

We were there the 2nd week of May for 7 days. The 3 days we were at MK it was jam packed. We were at Epcot for only 1/2 a day, but Soarin' FP's were gone by 11am. AK, I'd say was moderately crowded. Most lines were about 20-40 min, while the safari was consistently 40-60min. DHS was pretty crowded. Star Tours was a 50min wait at 1pm. We even had to wait for 10min for our ADR at lunch before we were seated.

Not much in the way of actual numbers, so take it for what it's worth.

Hi Addiesdad and thank you for your contribution!

Just curious...where was your ADR at DHS?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Lockedoutlogic...please explain that to me. I can't get my head around it. Is it because of a malfunctioning ADR system?

Because the sitdowns hold a couple of thousand people per meal period...but the park holds far more.

Obviously there will be fewer spots on days with high volume...but you can't take that at face value at all times.

In dining promotions...often you will have very limited restaurant availability... But during the overall slowest times of the year... Hence the promotion.

I just caution things like fast pass distribution and restaurant tables as being the burden of proof. Sometimes that is safe... Sometimes not.

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

@lockedoutlogic

You "laugh" at what people call "jam-packed" or "crowded" at the parks based on past history. Still waiting to hear why you say that. While I'm waiting, I'd also be curious to hear what you think the occupancy rates are at the resorts.

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

Because the sitdowns hold a couple of thousand people per meal period...but the park holds far more.

Obviously there will be fewer spots on days with high volume...but you can't take that at face value at all times.

In dining promotions...often you will have very limited restaurant availability... But during the overall slowest times of the year... Hence the promotion.

I just caution things like fast pass distribution and restaurant tables as being the burden of proof. Sometimes that is safe... Sometimes not.

Okay...just saw this. Cool...great explanation.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Plus...could you elaborate a bit more on your statement that WDW hasn't even been "moderately busy since the bubble years"?

Yes...just my observations...

Place was slow 2001 (pre 9/11...but that's a story for another time) to around 2004/2005...accelerated heavily during the housing bubble/credit craziness... 2005 to 2007/2008...and declined from 2009 ( the oh crap... I can't pay any of my ridiculous bills! Period ) until realistically 2012...as evidenced by Disney's heavy promotions a incessant whining at press conferences about it.
They're probably heading up on a slow curve now (haven't seen the report on that but it's a safe assumption)...

That's what I'm a thinking... Part of that I experienced in revenue and inventory control... The rest I've watched and experience 3-4 times a year since.

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

Yes...just my observations...

Place was slow 2001 (pre 9/11...but that's a story for another time) to around 2004/2005...accelerated heavily during the housing bubble/credit craziness... 2005 to 2007/2008...and declined from 2009 ( the oh crap... I can't pay any of my ridiculous bills! Period ) until realistically 2012...as evidenced by Disney's heavy promotions a incessant whining at press conferences about it.
They're probably heading up on a slow curve now (haven't seen the report on that but it's a safe assumption)...

That's what I'm a thinking... Part of that I experienced in revenue and inventory control... The rest I've watched and experience 3-4 times a year since.

re:"Part of that I experienced in revenue and inventory control".

What were those years...if I may be so bold to ask?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

We were there the 2nd week of May for 7 days. The 3 days we were at MK it was jam packed. We were at Epcot for only 1/2 a day, but Soarin' FP's were gone by 11am. AK, I'd say was moderately crowded. Most lines were about 20-40 min, while the safari was consistently 40-60min. DHS was pretty crowded. Star Tours was a 50min wait at 1pm. We even had to wait for 10min for our ADR at lunch before we were seated.

Not much in the way of actual numbers, so take it for what it's worth.

Our last trip was may 6-13th...

But I musta been in Disneyland cause I didnt see any of what you're saying.

Walk ups were available at all EPCOT and studios restaurants...it wasn't what I would call "empty"...but no where near very crowded.

We stayed at contemporary (DVC) and went into magic kingdom alot...all parts of the day...
We rode little mermaid 5 times ( 3 year old daughter... What are you gonna do?) and never waited more than 15 except when the ride broke.
No waits anywhere else over 20 minutes... Splash, space, jungle cruise...
No fast passes.

I'm not trying to be argumentative... But after
Both work experience and a very repeat offender...at all times of the year except the Christmas weeks and " spring break" (which honestly...is just silly and a waste of money and time)...and after what I would call "elevated/annoying crowd levels" probably as late as late 08 or early 09... It's been fairly light.

Just my opinion though. It's an opinion board with facts "sprinkled in"

 

[lockedoutlogic]

@lockedoutlogic

You "laugh" at what people call "jam-packed" or "crowded" at the parks based on past history. Still waiting to hear why you say that. While I'm waiting, I'd also be curious to hear what you think the occupancy rates are at the resorts.

Occupancy rates? That's something id have to check into...

Typically there is about a 18 month to 2 year lag on that info... So I don't know how " snapshot" what's out there is...

But you know... Just being upfront, I watched inventory and long term forecasting at both a couple of the wdw hotels and at central... Though admittedly those days are long gone. Just saying I might understand this.

They have ( guessing...not enough energy to look it up) in the area of about 30,000 onsite rooms...and the occupancy rate is close to 100% on busy times (I was there for the tail end of the millenium promo...which may now in retrospect be when WDW "jumped the shark"... And may have plateaued from a quality and experience perspective)...in leaner times - can be somewhere between 85 and the low 90s. (Average over the whole history probably I would guess 93-ish). I can tell you that one spot I worked at was at 99.97% average for 2000... No joke.

Anyway... That's a lot of rooms and people... But again, false analogy if you stop there.
There are 450 plus ( maybe down now after the last five years...but at its peak) hotels in the Orlando area. (Chamber of commerce... Check it).
When uncle Walt came to town... There where about ten in a sleeping swamp/orange grove of a town.
The point? What is going on out there....where unlike Disney " resorts" they experience massive seasonal and economic swings?

I don't want to go on forever about this (done that before). But again...this is the important part..you can't use a few wait times, fastpasses, and tables at le cellier As the indicator of what's "packed".

It's more complicated than that.

And again... One more time... Based on my experience the crowds have not been heavy the last few years. u can take what i say as just an opinion and dismiss...whatever. but i ask also you not to take it personally or "school" me. seems just like a wasted excercise.
It is what it is.
it I

 

[lockedoutlogic]

re:"Part of that I experienced in revenue and inventory control".

What were those years...if I may be so bold to ask?

2000-2003...

I did 18 hours on 9/11 to "attempt to calm the guest"...
Still embarrassed to this day at some of the behavior I saw.

Saw the most busy of times...and the least busy of times... The yin and the yang

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

Occupancy rates? That's something id have to check into...

Typically there is about a 18 month to 2 year lag on that info... So I don't know how " snapshot" what's out there is...

But you know... Just being upfront, I watched inventory and long term forecasting at both a couple of the wdw hotels and at central... Though admittedly those days are long gone. Just saying I might understand this.

They have ( guessing...not enough energy to look it up) in the area of about 30,000 onsite rooms...and the occupancy rate is close to 100% on busy times (I was there for the tail end of the millenium promo...which may now in retrospect be when WDW "jumped the shark"... And may have plateaued from a quality and experience perspective)...in leaner times - can be somewhere between 85 and the low 90s. (Average over the whole history probably I would guess 93-ish). I can tell you that one spot I worked at was at 99.97% average for 2000... No joke.

Anyway... That's a lot of rooms and people... But again, false analogy if you stop there.
There are 450 plus ( maybe down now after the last five years...but at its peak) hotels in the Orlando area. (Chamber of commerce... Check it).
When uncle Walt came to town... There where about ten in a sleeping swamp/orange grove of a town.
The point? What is going on out there....where unlike Disney " resorts" they experience massive seasonal and economic swings?

I don't want to go on forever about this (done that before). But again...this is the important part..you can't use a few wait times, fastpasses, and tables at le cellier As the indicator of what's "packed".

It's more complicated than that.

And again... One more time... Based on my experience the crowds have not been heavy the last few years. u can take what i say as just an opinion and dismiss...whatever. but i ask also you not to take it personally or "school" me. seems just like a wasted excercise.
It is what it is.
it I

@lockedoutlogic

Oh no...I've been very grateful of the info and observations you have given. It's exactly why I started this thread...people like yourself that have information(or observations) that those of us that live far away don't.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

@lockedoutlogic

Oh no...I've been very grateful of the info and observations you have given. It's exactly why I started this thread...people like yourself that have information(or observations) that those of us that live far away don't.

Lol...
My brain lives at the corner of SR535 and SR536 (where all the late to work Disney employees
Run the red light)...my body is about 950 clicks away.

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

@lockedoutlogic

During your time working there did you get a good idea of which resorts had the highest occupancy rates and which had the lowest?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

@lockedoutlogic

During your time working there did you get a good idea of which resorts had the highest occupancy rates and which had the lowest?

At the time...Caribbean, movies, and Polynesian...busiest

Disney institute was so empty they've since dropped 1000 timeshare units on top.

Animal kingdom lodge struggled mightily...